Enjoying the Process of Getting Fit

Chavways

Hi All,


I asked this over on the general Fitness forum but would like inputs from here too:

Looking for a bit of advice. I'm a 25yo male and over the years I've played a lot of rugby and a lot of whitewater kayaking (some competitive racing) in college. Over the last few years I've transitioned somewhat into cycling/swimming and this year I took up a lot of trail running and cycling. I did my first race, Quest Killarney 55km in October in decent time (~100th/530) and did a 10km running race last weekend in 50mins exactly.

With all of the training I've done this year, it has been 99% by myself. When I was training for Quest, I was training 3-4 times a week for 3 months but I can safely say I didn't enjoy a single bit of it. When I do go out training, I have no issue pushing myself, whether that be with our without company. I'll run or cycle up hills until I puke or nearly pass out and in my head, if I don't come home feeling like crap, then the session was a waste of time.

Because of this, I dread every session. If I am in work and I know I'm to go cycling or running in the evening, it'll be on my mind all day. I did the 10k last week with a few friends, all of varying fitness levels. All of them had a great time regardless of what time they got but I hated every minute of it, trying to do my absolute best. I went for a short 6km run today and told myself to take it handy and enjoy it but within 2km I was running at my race pace and kept going like that until the end. I just couldn't bring myself to go slow and as a result, I hated the run. Even if I do go out to do a recovery session, all plans go out the window once I get outside and am in the middle of it. If I'm cycling and I see someone ahead of me up the road, I'll do my absolute best to catch them, just so I know I can.

I love the feeling of being fit. I love being able to hike up a mountain or cycle up a steep hill and not be out of breath. But the way I train makes me hate the process and I dread it. Does anyone have any advice on better ways to enjoy training and put the competitiveness/stubbornness aside sometimes? Joining a club, whether that be cycling or running is definitely on the list of things to do but apart from that, what works/doesn't work for people? Cheers.

Milk_Tray

Chavways wrote: »

Hi All,


I asked this over on the general Fitness forum but would like inputs from here too:

Looking for a bit of advice. I'm a 25yo male and over the years I've played a lot of rugby and a lot of whitewater kayaking (some competitive racing) in college. Over the last few years I've transitioned somewhat into cycling/swimming and this year I took up a lot of trail running and cycling. I did my first race, Quest Killarney 55km in October in decent time (~100th/530) and did a 10km running race last weekend in 50mins exactly.

With all of the training I've done this year, it has been 99% by myself. When I was training for Quest, I was training 3-4 times a week for 3 months but I can safely say I didn't enjoy a single bit of it. When I do go out training, I have no issue pushing myself, whether that be with our without company. I'll run or cycle up hills until I puke or nearly pass out and in my head, if I don't come home feeling like crap, then the session was a waste of time.

Because of this, I dread every session. If I am in work and I know I'm to go cycling or running in the evening, it'll be on my mind all day. I did the 10k last week with a few friends, all of varying fitness levels. All of them had a great time regardless of what time they got but I hated every minute of it, trying to do my absolute best. I went for a short 6km run today and told myself to take it handy and enjoy it but within 2km I was running at my race pace and kept going like that until the end. I just couldn't bring myself to go slow and as a result, I hated the run. Even if I do go out to do a recovery session, all plans go out the window once I get outside and am in the middle of it. If I'm cycling and I see someone ahead of me up the road, I'll do my absolute best to catch them, just so I know I can.

I love the feeling of being fit. I love being able to hike up a mountain or cycle up a steep hill and not be out of breath. But the way I train makes me hate the process and I dread it. Does anyone have any advice on better ways to enjoy training and put the competitiveness/stubbornness aside sometimes? Joining a club, whether that be cycling or running is definitely on the list of things to do but apart from that, what works/doesn't work for people? Cheers.

Do you want to improve and keep at the sport ? If so your doing it all wrong and need to slow down. Enlist the services of a coach perhaps to keep you in check. You might need a structure and someone to be accountable too if you can’t do it yourself. Join a club too and train with them. If you want to improve you’ll need to go super slow to build that base again to ultimately go faster in racing. Research MAF training

peter kern

80 % easy 20 % fast there is no need to go flat out every session,

as bit if speed every day donst hurt but there should relay only be 1-3 sesions a week that are realy hard.


reald some stuff on polarized training. Seiller at all.

and enjoy the training if you dread it it means its not right.

carbonceiling

Chavways wrote: »

Hi All,


I went for a short 6km run today and told myself to take it handy and enjoy it but within 2km I was running at my race pace and kept going like that until the end. I just couldn't bring myself to go slow and as a result, I hated the run. Even if I do go out to do a recovery session, all plans go out the window once I get outside and am in the middle of it. If I'm cycling and I see someone ahead of me up the road, I'll do my absolute best to catch them, just so I know I can.

This is a great post, and I'm sure your relentless desire to push harder and harder strikes a chord with many people here, it certainly does for me.

I think there are two steps:

1. You need to recognise that your current approach is not working. To be fair, I think you are probably already at that point.

2. You need to fully believe in a different approach. I think this will be challenging for you, but very rewarding if you can achieve it. I see two ways to do it:

A. Get a coach and put 100% faith in them, let yourself be guided by them and just believe.

B. Do your own research like Milk Tray suggested and study the alternative until you understand it. that way, when you finish an "easy" workout, instead of feeling like you wasted your time, you will understand the purpose and what physiological benefits will accrue.

don't beat yourself up too much though, you have a natural fire in your belly that you can't buy or get from any coaching plan. You just need to tap that resource in a more intelligent way, let it build and build, release it a bit every so often, so you can enjoy it, but let it build so you can fully unleash it on race day!

peter kern

Even if I do go out to do a recovery session, all plans go out the window once I get outside and am in the middle of it. If I'm cycling and I see someone ahead of me up the road, I'll do my absolute best to catch them, just so I know I can.





and this is of course the worst you can do



when i cycle easy people on dublin bikes pass me and i dont change my speed .

its not a coach you need its self controll you need.

mossym

Chavways wrote: »

I just couldn't bring myself to go slow and as a result, I hated the run..

a coach isn't going to stand beside you forcing you to slow down

joining a club isn't going to force you to slow down

not trying to insult but if you don't have the control to do a slow session slow then maybe endurance sports aren't for you?


you might get away with going hard every session now, but a few years older and it'll mean you'll be dumping a lot of money into physios

joey100

I came from a very similar back ground to yourself, white water kayaking leading into adventure racing and then into triathlon.

I'd echo what everyone else has said, you need to slow down. Stop thinking that you only improve when you train hard, you improve by consistent training, the only way you can do that is do the majority of your training easy. Keep that inner drive for when you race, when your training it's training, save the good performances for when your racing. If your doing every session hard in reality your probably not doing any really hard sessions because your probably not recovering enough inbetween them. Like what Peter said, 80% easy, 20% hard, and make sure the easy is easy and the hard is hard.

tunney

Leave your ego at the door when heading out.

Chavways

Milk_Tray wrote: »

Do you want to improve and keep at the sport ? If so your doing it all wrong and need to slow down. Enlist the services of a coach perhaps to keep you in check. You might need a structure and someone to be accountable too if you can’t do it yourself. Join a club too and train with them. If you want to improve you’ll need to go super slow to build that base again to ultimately go faster in racing. Research MAF training

Thanks for the advice. I think a coach or club seem to be the most logical way to go. Having someone or a group around me who know what they are doing and who are able to stick to a structure would be a massive help. I think part of my problem is that from the very start I never trained with anyone. So in my head, it was always a case of "I don't know what others are doing, so if I go hard every session I can at least be confident that laziness isn't a factor if I don't do as well as I want". Which is a crazy mindset but its certainly one I've had in recent months.

carbonceiling wrote: »

This is a great post, and I'm sure your relentless desire to push harder and harder strikes a chord with many people here, it certainly does for me.

I think there are two steps:

1. You need to recognise that your current approach is not working. To be fair, I think you are probably already at that point.

2. You need to fully believe in a different approach. I think this will be challenging for you, but very rewarding if you can achieve it. I see two ways to do it:

A. Get a coach and put 100% faith in them, let yourself be guided by them and just believe.

B. Do your own research like Milk Tray suggested and study the alternative until you understand it. that way, when you finish an "easy" workout, instead of feeling like you wasted your time, you will understand the purpose and what physiological benefits will accrue.

don't beat yourself up too much though, you have a natural fire in your belly that you can't buy or get from any coaching plan. You just need to tap that resource in a more intelligent way, let it build and build, release it a bit every so often, so you can enjoy it, but let it build so you can fully unleash it on race day!

Thanks for the advice. Yeah I think I've finally reached tipping point with my current training as I'm getting little to no enjoyment out of it. A new approach is definitely needed. I think another part of my problem is the feeling that I always need to feel an improvement in every session. So if I run the same route twice in a week, the second time will need to be faster than the first or I'll feel like I failed or was lazy. Again, a crazy way to think but I need to get my act together to think of one maybe as a fast paced run and the other as a slow recovery session.

peter kern wrote: »

Even if I do go out to do a recovery session, all plans go out the window once I get outside and am in the middle of it. If I'm cycling and I see someone ahead of me up the road, I'll do my absolute best to catch them, just so I know I can.

and this is of course the worst you can do

when i cycle easy people on dublin bikes pass me and i dont change my speed .

its not a coach you need its self control you need.

mossym wrote: »

a coach isn't going to stand beside you forcing you to slow down

joining a club isn't going to force you to slow down

not trying to insult but if you don't have the control to do a slow session slow then maybe endurance sports aren't for you?

you might get away with going hard every session now, but a few years older and it'll mean you'll be dumping a lot of money into physios

Thanks for the advice. Its only really been in the last 6-7 months I've gotten into endurance racing and I did really enjoy Quest. It's something I'd like to keep up and improve at but I definitely know I'm going about it the wrong way. I think from training alone and not having prior experience in racing or training with others, my head is telling me that to get better I need to go faster all the time.



I want to learn to go slower and know that its ok to go slow and that there will be training benefits from that too but up to now, I've been telling myself the opposite and its making me hate training.

joey100 wrote: »

I came from a very similar back ground to yourself, white water kayaking leading into adventure racing and then into triathlon.

I'd echo what everyone else has said, you need to slow down. Stop thinking that you only improve when you train hard, you improve by consistent training, the only way you can do that is do the majority of your training easy. Keep that inner drive for when you race, when your training it's training, save the good performances for when your racing. If your doing every session hard in reality your probably not doing any really hard sessions because your probably not recovering enough inbetween them. Like what Peter said, 80% easy, 20% hard, and make sure the easy is easy and the hard is hard.

Thanks, will keep that in mind.

tunney wrote: »

Leave your ego at the door when heading out.

I don't think its so much an ego but more inexperience and stupidity. I train what I believe to be is hard because I think others do the same and its the only way to get better when in reality it isn't. It's more of a mental block telling me that if I don't keep my speed up or my splits aren't the same as or better than last week, then I'm not improving.


Just as a general question, do people find it easier to train when they have an event to aim for? If you don't have a specific event in mind, how much training would you typically do to keep yourself ticking over? Thanks again for all of the advice.

dickidy

I was the exact same as you mate. every session was just try go harder and faster then your last session. I did the exact same thing as you to on trying to fix it. I came here for advice.
i bought a garmin watch with heart rate monitor. The watch had pre programmed training plans and its much easier to run slow when your
told to.
I couldnt believe the amount of zone 2 ( slow )running involved and with in a year had knocked my half marathon time down by 15 min to 1h31.

and i always sign up for event really early as it keeps me motivated.

best of luck with it

joey100

I find I train better when I have a goal race, doesn't even have to be something big, even a goal 5km or a test park run help. Season can be long if you don't break it up.

The training question and how much do people do to keep ticking over will really depend on your goals. If you want to be competitive you will need to keep a decent enough volume most of the year, don't need the intensity the whole time. Distance of your goal race can also play a part. If you look at some of the logs you will see a wide range of approaches. I know for me I'd bike 3 times and run 4 times most weeks of the year, we won't talk about the swim!

peter kern

so to give you a rough idea

10 k 50 min



your easy and long run should be about 6.30 min per k pace

this is your bread and butter the more you do of that the better

your long run should start with maybe 1 hour and then build slowly up to 90 min soetimes you go slower and sometimes a bit faster BUT DO NOT THINK YOU RUN 5.30 for this even under 6 min pace at the moment would not be the best and 7min a k would not worry me



your 800 - 1600 k intervals about 4.45k pace not so hard that you get sick but it should be uncomforatble for the 2nd half of the intervals you do . 6x 800 at roughly 4.45 kpace with 2 min very easy jog for instnace

your tempo run about 5.05 could be 5 could be 5.20 k pace or its a pace where you have to be focused and push hard but should not get slower during the time

could be 2-3 times 10 min at 5.10min k pace

just to give you and idea

if you have a speeodo on your bike just measure out a few places no fancy watch etc needed.



the more easy runing the better

not enjoying runing means less or slower runing

buy yourself a book roadruning for serious runners by pfitiziger

that will help you

and think the cycling is not that dissimilar if you cant have a nice chat while out for long bike you are to fast

and for tempo on the bike 2 x 20 min at a pae that makes you work but dosnt kill you is a good basic session for you

iam sure others will add if you ask them nicely.

btw your job is to find out why all i type has a spacer line between my lines ....

joeKel73

I've been in a similar position to yourself, busting myself in training... no pain no gain. I read many times about training slow, but took it as doing a slow recovery run the odd time. Initial fitness gains were quick but seemed to require exponential effort for additional gains.

I'm only a couple of weeks into changing to a "smarter" and more enjoyable approach... hoping to see results over the year. Feels like I'm going back to basics.

carbonceiling wrote: »

B. Do your own research like Milk Tray suggested and study the alternative until you understand it. that way, when you finish an "easy" workout, instead of feeling like you wasted your time, you will understand the purpose and what physiological benefits will accrue.

This is an important point. Recently I was reading a book from an triathlete I follow and they wrote about the slow HR training being the big turning point for them. I then read loads of blogs and articles online. Now I know the WHY of the slow training and I don't feel like I need to be completely drained with some Strava PRs ready to upload at the end of a run.

Chavways wrote: »

So if I run the same route twice in a week, the second time will need to be faster than the first or I'll feel like I failed or was lazy. Again, a crazy way to think but I need to get my act together to think of one maybe as a fast paced run and the other as a slow recovery session.

From this it sounds like you are the same as I was and it hasn't clicked yet. The slow run isn't a recovery run, that is the core training that's building up your base fitness.

Ego is a challenge when starting at Z2 or similar slow training, I was doing some 7:30 kilometres yesterday trying to keep my heart rate down while others were flying past. It's not easy when you know you could chase and catch them! Averaged over 7mins/km over the run, shuffling past walkers. I hope I have the patience to stick with it!