HSE No Longer Allowed to Refer to Patients as "Love" or "Dear"

Raheem Euro

There could simply be a check box on the admissions paperwork indicating whether the patient is 'dear' amenable or otherwise. Medical staff can then proceed on that basis.

The Tetrarch

It is nice to see that the HSE is getting to grips with the real issues.

While they are at it could they ban the word "pop".
"Pop up there, and pop down your jocks .....

Sir Oxman

The Tetrarch wrote: »

It is nice to see that the HSE is getting to grips with the real issues.

While they are at it could they ban the word "pop".
"Pop up there, and pop down your jocks .....

LOL:):):)

conorhal

Il Fascista wrote: »

Where does the patronizing element come from though?

From some working class pesant failing to refer to me as my preferred pronoun or honorific!


Whenever I encounter somebody 'offended' such terms of endearment it's always some smug middle class bint irritatated at the familiarity of working class language and it's use in addressing 'their betters'.

One eyed Jack

The Tetrarch wrote: »

It is nice to see that the HSE is getting to grips with the real issues.

While they are at it could they ban the word "pop".
"Pop up there, and pop down your jocks .....

This is it really. I think, and I would hope, that this new policy and policies like it, will be ignored by adults who are capable of using their best judgement in the multitude of various contexts in which they find themselves, rather than adhering to a policy which dictates how they are to put people at ease. Such policies are inherently contradictory and counter-productive.

ohnonotgmail

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This is it really. I think, and I would hope, that this new policy and policies like it, will be ignored by adults who are capable of using their best judgement in the multitude of various contexts in which they find themselves, rather than adhering to a policy which dictates how they are to put people at ease. Such policies are inherently contradictory and counter-productive.

what is counter productive about calling people by their name?

nthclare

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and they say the PC brigade are snowflakes.

Who are they ?

ohnonotgmail

nthclare wrote: »

Who are they ?

The mysterious group of people that seem to upset a lot of people here by their very existence.

L1011

Is this thread not based entirely on someone hearing something about a NHS trust in the UK, not the HSE at all?

And only reported in the Mail meaning it's probably lies

One eyed Jack

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what is counter productive about calling people by their name?

There’s nothing inherently counterproductive about calling people by their name, and I wasn’t suggesting there was anything wrong with that. It’s when it’s written into a policy that staff must address patients by their name, that things get a bit 1984ish.

How Soon Is Now

Every week there seems to be something added to the list of things you can no longer say or do because of the lefty's.


Yet i keep being told ''uhhh its only you who notices it!'' ''sure its all just on twitter it doesn't really happen in the real world''.....

nthclare

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If a nurse called me "dear" i would consider it patronising. Luckily I seem to only interact with professionals who call me by my name.

You sound like someone who's very important.

Do they roll out the red carpet upon your arrival,and more than likely there's a soundtrack ready for your arrival...

If I had it my way I'd probably have the palpatine theme playing in the background upon my arrival.
And a squadron of storm troopers lined up, maybe Darth Vader at my side.

Wouldn't that be epic

ohnonotgmail

nthclare wrote: »

You sound like someone who's very important.

Do they roll out the red carpet upon your arrival,and more than likely there's a soundtrack ready for your arrival...

If I had it my way I'd probably have the palpatine theme playing in the background upon my arrival.
And a squadron of storm troopers lined up, maybe Darth Vader at my side.

Wouldn't that be epic

What makes you think they treat me any differently to anybody else?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

If I'm not called by any name, should I be offended?

ohnonotgmail

1fw5dx7huvq0st wrote: »

If I'm not called by any name, should I be offended?

I'm sure they would think up a name for you.

LirW

Having a first language where nonsense like that isn't used in a formal/professional context, it really was irritating. I know it's customs here, don't get me wrong.
But I'm a grown woman, not a chicken, pet, darling, hun or whatever. Just use my name, simples.

But then, that's just the opinion of a German native speaker.

nthclare

LirW wrote: »

Having a first language where nonsense like that isn't used in a formal/professional context, it really was irritating. I know it's customs here, don't get me wrong.
But I'm a grown woman, not a chicken, pet, darling, hun or whatever. Just use my name, simples.

But then, that's just the opinion of a German native speaker.

Nothing worse than being called a Hun and being from Germany...

Look what the Barbarians did to the Roman empire

Never call a German a Hun

nthclare

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

What makes you think they treat me any differently to anybody else?

Point taken, they probably treat you like everyone else.

And rightly so, I'm sure you prefer to be treated like everyone​ else.

Because you have the same rights as every other person here, and I think you appreciate that.

Sardonicat

I worked in NHS in West Yorkshire in the early 90s. We were not allowed to do it then, and quite rightly so. Its depersonalising and patronising. In fairness, I've never really come across it in hospitals here.

One thing that I find astonishing is midwives addressing expectant/new mothers as "Mummy/Mum" in shows like "One Born..." I'm amazed that no one has screamed " I'm NOT your fecking mother! " at one of them.

Sundew

Imagine the horror if we all reverted to speaking Irish daily as our first language.

The PC Brigade would have a field day with our most common Greeting Dia is Mhuire Duit ( Hello) which translates literally as God and Mary be with you, for those that don’t know!
I can see this being banned from usage in the future, if we continue on this road.

kneemos

Sundew wrote: »

Imagine the horror if we all reverted to speaking Irish daily as our first language.

The PC Brigade would have a field day with our most common Greeting Dia is Mhuire Duit ( Hello) which translates literally as God and Mary be with you, for those that don’t know!
I can see this being banned from usage in the future, if we continue on this road.

Is the PC brigade the ones insisting on first names,or the ones giving out about it?

Sundew

kneemos wrote: »

Is the PC brigade the ones insisting on first names,or the ones giving out about it?

Ah for the love of Jasus ya have me all confused now!😉

nthclare

Sundew wrote: »

Imagine the horror if we all reverted to speaking Irish daily as our first language.

The PC Brigade would have a field day with our most common Greeting Dia is Mhuire Duit ( Hello) which translates literally as God and Mary be with you, for those that don’t know!
I can see this being banned from usage in the future, if we continue on this road.

For definite it would be banned.

I ain't religious, BUT when the christianity had more sway in the western world we had Monty python, Carry-on and a lot of so called politically incorrect humour....

Now we're going backwards instead of forwards in some ways...

I sometimes greet the lads down the local takeaway with asalam alikum...

They love it

andekwarhola

Each to their own but I wouldn't dream of being offended by being called Dear Or Love in that context. I'm flabeergasted that somebody would actually complain.

Maybe it's an age or class thing. My mother, aunts etc did and do it commonly and I would have never thought that it was meant in a patronizing sense.

storker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You dont get to decide how somebody else should feel.

Your feelings shouldn't get to decide what other people are allowed to say.

Reati

Sundew wrote: »

Imagine the horror if we all reverted to speaking Irish daily as our first language.

We don't have to worry about that. There is enough Irish hating Irish to make sure that never happens.

ohnonotgmail

storker wrote: »

Your feelings shouldn't get to decide what other people are allowed to say.

No but their employers get to decide. and that is what is happening here.

TCM

rgodard80a wrote:

Tell that to the burns unit.

That's good.

CrabRevolution

Maybe it was just the hospitals I worked in, but I don't recall many medical staff there every calling people "love" or "dear" or whatever. Attendants, healthcare assistants, cleaners, catering staff etc. would be far more likely to refer to patients that way. I really don't think the way the tea lady or cleaner addresses a patient will impact on how involved they feel or change any outcomes.

Nesta99

This isnt new tbh! During training we were simply thought to refer to the patient as Mr/Ms, if they minded being called by their first name etc, being mannerly basically. It may seem like PC gone mad but there is a dignity issue when it comes to elder care. Some healthcare workers (including cleaners, porters, caterers, HCAs et al) speak to the elderly as if they were children. Discouraging terms that can be deemed as patronising is due to the few who behave as if being elderly means no longer having mental capacity. There are times when the PC brigade can infuriate but in this I can see the reasons for this policy.

There is the aspect also where it would be deemed inappropriate for men to refer to female colleagues/patients/clients etc as 'dear', 'love', 'pet' etc so it is also an across the board thing. There are sufficient amounts of complaints about using such terms for employers to flag it up to employees to be aware of how things can be percieved.

There is always the element of intent when using terms like the above in a workplace, its best not to test the grey area in case someone is of the sensitive type and takes exception to what is said regardless of tone or intent.

TCM

Samuel Vimes wrote:

No. She finds the expression patronising and dismissive.

Give it a rest.
Hopefully she'll make a full recovery, but if that's a priority then I doubt if she's as ill as u make out.

storker

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

More evidence of the excessive amount of useless mandarins in the HSE, haven't they got more important things to do?

Yes, but nonsense such as this is intended to distract from that.

"The Russians have a phrase, 'the scream of the woodcock.' The phrase is derisory because the woodcock is nature's ventriloquist, and if you fire your shotgun at the place where the sound came from, you'll go hungry. Shoot the woodcock, not the scream, the Russians say"
Stephen King - Danse Macabre

I'm often reminded of this passage when I hear stories such as the one under discussion. Yes, the HSE definitely has much more urgent matters to concern itself with, but instead prefers to run around shooting screams, while no doubt congratulating itself on achieving a high body count of dead Woodcocks.

TCM

Mrs OBumble wrote:

If you cannot be arsed remembering my name (which is usually on the chart in front of you), then I don't trust you to remember relevant medical details.

All about your name is it?

storker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No but their employers get to decide. and that is what is happening here.

Based on some people's feelings.

TCM

namloc1980 wrote:

I think they should use patient number. Would be way better and won't upset any of the offended people.

namloc1980 wrote:

"Patient #P3568299, how are you feeling today?"

Please don't refer to my number on a public forum.

irishgrover

HSE Management - up in arms about patients being refered to as "dears"
HSE Management - no problem with same patients lying and dying on a ****ing trolly for 3 or 4 days

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I have never heard any medical personnel refer to a patient as Dear or Love. The catering staff night on occasion and it's never patronising or offensive.

This seems to be a whole lot of stuff 'n' nonsense.

PlaneSpeeking

I grew up in the North of England - you were mate, love, girl or queen depending on age and sex.

Nowt wrong with it in my opinion!!

storker

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I grew up in the North of England - you were mate, love, girl or queen depending on age and sex.

Nowt wrong with it in my opinion!!

By 'eck!

Eggs For Dinner

I've spent a lot of time in hospitals and the fact that front line staff become on familiar terms with you during your stay is very comforting. This world is going to pot and very soon there will be little or no joy in it which isn't first approved by soulless cat ladies

FunLover18

These terms can be, as others have pointed out, patronising and condescending in an already uncomfortable environment and situation. Not being able to use these terms doesn't negatively impact anyone.

endacl

Switch to ‘mo ghrá’ or ‘mo chroí’.

Job done.

One eyed Jack

FunLover18 wrote: »

These terms can be, as others have pointed out, patronising and condescending in an already uncomfortable environment and situation. Not being able to use these terms doesn't negatively impact anyone.

Actually that’s exactly what it does for a person who would generally use those terms. That’s why some people object to policies which prohibit the use of terms of endearment. Their argument is that it is unprofessional and condescending and so on. I would argue that it’s quite the opposite - you’re working with people in an environment where people are supposed to feel comfortable, terms of endearment are entirely appropriate. It’s similar to policies which dictate that homeless people must be referred to as ‘service users’. It’s an attempt at professionalism which comes off as inauthentic and over-complicating an issue for the sake of appearances rather than genuinely caring for a person.

twowheelsonly

seamus wrote: »

I knew this would trigger the snowflakes.

It's been presented in a way that makes it sound like PC nonsense, but it's actually a quality of care initiative.

One of the problems Irish healthcare has always had is that it's traditionally been run like a school. Doctors and nurses are the teachers, patients are the children and need to just STFU and take what they're given.

The medical evidence shows that patients who feel involved in their own health provision, who feel adequately informed about what's going on and who feel like it's a collaborative effort, have better outcomes than patients who feel passive, subordinate to the staff, or uninformed about their care.

Thus, you can see how the use of words like "love" and "dear", "pet", etc, are condescending terms that are likely to make a patient feel less positive aout their care and less involved. If you are trivialised by a health provider through these words, then communication will begin to break down, and patient outcomes decline.

Of course, this is just part of an entire range of measures by the HSE to improve communications between patients and health professionals. But naturally a few snowflakes have jumped on this specific one as an example of "PC gone mad omgz my 90 year old granny loves being called dear when will these lunatics stop!!!1".

You'll also note that the use of bed numbers or illnesses to refer to patients is being discontinued. But, no way, people aren't up in arms about that. I wonder why that is....? It starts with an A, ends with your Da has a gen in the middle.

This is all about ensuring that patients feel involved in their own healthcare provision and respected as an equal by health staff. Because that results in better healthcare.

Spoken like a man who's job is to think up these policies !!

seamus wrote: »

This is actually a nice idea, it would certainly put the patient at ease. But you can see how it might be difficult in the midst of rounds to ensure that each patient gets called by their "preferred" title.

"Hi Peter, how are you today?"

"Doctor, my chart clearly says that I preferred to be address as Hotrod Bananahammock!"

So going for a flat approach to all patients is safer.

Which is exactly what they do right now, no ??

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I don't have links, but am 99% certain that the change is backed up by actual scientific research, which includes looking at people's brain wave patterns when addressed by name vs by a generic term. Notice that paramedics and emergency response staff are trained to make heavy use of personal names

The thing about having medical staff express their personality in this way is that it reduces the patient's personality.

Those that you refer to deal with one patient at a time, on a bad day maybe 10 calls in a whole shift. It's a lot easier for them to remember names when they're only dealing with one person. Chances are, if they met that person again in 3 days time they wouldn't have a clue of their name.


It's mentioned already, but those that use these terms the most tend to be the cleaning staff, tea-ladies etc. and it's generally in the context of a quick chat when passing by. That little chat is invaluable to those that otherwise may have no visitors other than the medical staff. That little chat will also stop if they have to go to the bother of finding out each patients name before they can even speak to them.

FunLover18

This is only prohibiting those terms in a workplace environment where the HSE staff are there to serve the patient. People and, more importantly, patients do find it unprofessional and condescending and the professional providing a service's opinion or preference towards these terms of endearment shouldn't come into it. I can't imagine any member of HSE staff is going to be upset about not being able to call people "dear".

One eyed Jack

FunLover18 wrote: »

This is only prohibiting those terms in a workplace environment where the HSE staff are there to serve the patient. People and, more importantly, patients do find it unprofessional and condescending and the professional providing a service's opinion or preference towards these terms of endearment shouldn't come into it. I can't imagine any member of HSE staff is going to be upset about not being able to call people "dear".

Will you stop with this ‘professional’ nonsense. There’s nothing professional about treating adults as though they are children, that they need these sorts of policies introduced and can’t use their own ability to make these decisions for themselves. A hospital is an unnatural environment for most people anyway, regardless of whether or not they are there as a patient or as a member of staff in any capacity.

When I was having my hip replacement operation done, I had one member of the surgical team showing me pictures of their dog while the consultant performing the surgery was hacking away. It didn’t in any way impact on their capacity to do their job. I understood that for them this is what would be like for me “another day at the office”.

Stodgy, stiff-upper lip, anxiety riddled staff are an indication that staff morale is low, and that means they simply won’t be capable of performing any task to the best of their ability, because they’re prohibited from being themselves, and are under duress to behave like children who have to be constantly monitored. That’s a complete lack of professionalism and suggests that management simply don’t trust their staff to behave like adults.

Sardonicat

One eyed Jack wrote: »

FunLover18 wrote: »

These terms can be, as others have pointed out, patronising and condescending in an already uncomfortable environment and situation. Not being able to use these terms doesn't negatively impact anyone.

Actually that’s exactly what it does for a person who would generally use those terms. That’s why some people object to policies which prohibit the use of terms of endearment. Their argument is that it is unprofessional and condescending and so on. I would argue that it’s quite the opposite - you’re working with people in an environment where people are supposed to feel comfortable, terms of endearment are entirely appropriate. It’s similar to policies which dictate that homeless people must be referred to as ‘service users’. It’s an attempt at professionalism which comes off as inauthentic and over-complicating an issue for the sake of appearances rather than genuinely caring for a person.

As I said earlier in this thread, in the early 90s in UK NHS we were trained NOT to address people with a term of endearment. All health workers, be they professional or support, are trained likewise. It's not new, at all. A ban is making something official policy that has for years been strongly discouraged.

Yes, you'll hear tea ladies or household staff using these terms, these are people less likely to know the individual names.

IME, it tends to be elderly, confused patients who are most often addressed this way. People who often are non verbal or not able to articulate and express their personality. Now imagine you are one such person; already in a fog of dementia, you're now in a strange place and you've probably got new medication adding to your confusion. You have to stay in this place for days or weeks and during that time not one person uses your name when speaking to you. Not very nice is it?

FunLover18

How is calling someone "love" and "dear" the opposite of treating people like children? I would honestly question someone's capability at basic human interaction if they suddenly became stiff upper-lipped and anxiety ridden because they weren't allowed to use these terms.

dr.fuzzenstein

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

How about calling people by their name? Its a crazy idea but it just might work.

Personally (and that is just my particular type of crazy), I dislike it when they use my name excessively and maybe even give it special emphasis.

Now, John, we will look after you, John. Don't worry John, you're in good hands, John. And, John, if you need anything, just call for me, John.

Yes, I know, that's my name darling. Don't wear it out, or I make you buy me a new one.

Kivaro

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yes, I know, that's my name darling. Don't wear it out, or I make you buy me a new one.

What did you just call her?
You could get 3 months in jail for that.