Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Midlife

Brian? wrote: »

Does anyone know how a fence can be a "very powerful fence"? Is it going to be electrified?

I dunno, but it's gonna have 'see through visibility'

Brian?

This is the ramblings of a loon. How can anyone listen to this and believe he's worthy of being POTUS. Even the parts that make sense are nonsense.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1088884073370652672

Zubeneschamali

Midlife wrote: »

I dunno, but it's gonna have 'see through visibility'

I think we can be certain that everyone will see through it eventually.

Penn

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I think we can be certain that everyone will see through it eventually.

The Emperor's new clothes wall

Timberrrrrrrr

Brian? wrote: »

This is the ramblings of a loon. How can anyone listen to this and believe he's worthy of being POTUS. Even the parts that make sense are nonsense.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1088884073370652672

He really has no clue how to speak without making it all about himself, i honestly hope he does do a SOTU speech, I'm trying to imagine the car crash that will be when he has the full house AND the American nation as an audience.

Gbear

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He really has no clue how to speak without making it all about himself, i honestly hope he does do a SOTU speech, I'm trying to imagine the car crash that will be when he has the full house AND the American nation as an audience.

Most of those who disapprove already strongly disapprove, and the same goes for approval/strong approval.

We're probably getting near enough to the limit of change between them at this point. Most of the remainder of his support are a cult following and other than consistently coming out against the far right with both rhetoric and policy (he's waffled out gun control stuff before but it hasn't hurt because he routinely says one thing and then contradicts it days, if not hours later), there's little he can do in terms of competency or morality that would shift them.

There would need to be someone that matches the awfulness of Trump and the Republican party morally, but is more competent, to make a meaningful dent in his base. I would imagine there should be many possible candidates who aren't as stupid as Trump who could take the lessons in populism he's accidentally given through his staggering from one gaffe to another.
There's surely someone who can be as much of a brazen asshole as Trump and also isn't beholden to a foreign power, doesn't have a closet bursting full of skeletons and can also string a sentence together.

He's long since reached embarrassment saturation. Mumbling and lying through a SOTU won't make a difference.

UsedToWait

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He really has no clue how to speak without making it all about himself, i honestly hope he does do a SOTU speech, I'm trying to imagine the car crash that will be when he has the full house AND the American nation as an audience.

Previous SOTUs I've seen, have been a bit staged and formulaic - lots of applause, cheering and standing ovations seeming on a bipartisan basis - more about a show of national unity than a political rally.


I agree this one could be a real car crash - more like Trump's speech to the UN, where he was laughed out of it {"they were laughing with me").


How can anyone keep a straight face when Trump comes out and says "The state of our union is strong"?

PropJoe10

Brian? wrote: »

Does anyone know how a fence can be a "very powerful fence"? Is it going to be electrified?

Well he referred to it as a "smart wall" the other day, which is also a bit puzzling. Smart in comparison to himself, maybe. There's a few ways that you could interpret this.

PropJoe10

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
14h14 hours ago

CBS reports that in the Roger Stone indictment, data was “released during the 2016 Election to damage Hillary Clinton.” Oh really! What about the Fake and Unverified “Dossier,” a total phony conjob, that was paid for by Crooked Hillary to damage me and the Trump Campaign? What...


Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
13h13 hours ago

....about all of the one sided Fake Media coverage (collusion with Crooked H?) that I had to endure during my very successful presidential campaign. What about the now revealed bias by Facebook and many others. Roger Stone didn’t even work for me anywhere near the Election!


I suppose it was to be expected, but it's hilarious nonetheless.

Sean.3516

It seems that because it has been proven from video evidence that the Covington school boys have done nothing wrong and that Nathan Philips was a liar in every respect, many people are making the case that the boys were inviting a confrontation by wearing MAGA hats. What’s people’s thoughts on the MAGA hats? Are they acceptable to wear? Also is anyone still making the case that Philips was a victim?

Sean.3516

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It seems that because it has been proven from video evidence that the Covington school boys have done nothing wrong and that Nathan Philips was a liar in every respect, many people are making the case that the boys were inviting a confrontation by wearing MAGA hats. What’s people’s thoughts on the MAGA hats? Are they acceptable to wear? Also is anyone still making the case that Philips was a victim?

If I saw someone on the street here (Ireland) wearing one, it would make me think they are a bit of a muppet. I wouldn't wish harm on them or anything, but l liken them to scientologists or other cult members and would hope they eventually see the light.

dr.fuzzenstein

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It seems that because it has been proven from video evidence that the Covington school boys have done nothing wrong and that Nathan Philips was a liar in every respect, many people are making the case that the boys were inviting a confrontation by wearing MAGA hats. What’s people’s thoughts on the MAGA hats? Are they acceptable to wear? Also is anyone still making the case that Philips was a victim?

I would regard anyone wearing one as a grade A arsehole.
And one should expect to have such a hat knocked off their head and should not be surprised at abuse received because of it.

pixelburp

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It seems that because it has been proven from video evidence that the Covington school boys have done nothing wrong and that Nathan Philips was a liar in every respect, many people are making the case that the boys were inviting a confrontation by wearing MAGA hats. What’s people’s thoughts on the MAGA hats? Are they acceptable to wear? Also is anyone still making the case that Philips was a victim?

I won't speak to Covington, but "MAGA" by all accounts has become a catchphrase of Trumps movement; in of itself it's not ostensibly provocative (after all, making something great isn't a bad thing), but the red baseball cap has clearly become an emblem, and a pretty confrontational one at that. Wearing one is making a statement to those around, and honestly it's an empty, antagonistic and ... well, crude, ignorant one. It's the culmination of distilling politics into sloganeering and "sportsfan" attitudes; if you're not withy "team" you're the other and therefore, lesser.

To be blunt, it's a repugnant slogan / piece of apparel - and I suspect those that wear it know it.

Sean.3516

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I saw someone on the street here (Ireland) wearing one, it would make me think they are a bit of a muppet. I wouldn't wish harm on them or anything, but l liken them to scientologists or other cult members and would hope they eventually see the light.

Sure, they shouldn’t be hurt for it. But it’s because left leaning people assumed they were kooks for wearing them that there was such a bias. I honestly don’t think this would have been a story if they weren’t wearing them.

If I see someone wearing a MAGA hat, the only thing I can infer is that they support president Trump and his policies. ie. the tax cuts, tariffs, wall etc. if you disagree with those policies fair enough, at least an honest debate could be had about them. But the leap that was made here was that all of Trump’s despicable personal qualities as well as his political policies were transposed on to these kids for wearing the MAGA hat.

I just think it’s despicable to impugn a persons moral character simply for supporting what are pretty mainstream conservative ideas in the US.

pixelburp

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Sure, they shouldn’t be hurt for it. But it’s because left leaning people assumed they were kooks for wearing them that there was such a bias. I honestly don’t think this would have been a story if they weren’t wearing them.

If I see someone wearing a MAGA hat, the only thing I can infer is that they support president Trump and his policies. ie. the tax cuts, tariffs, wall etc. if you disagree with those policies fair enough, at least an honest debate could be had about them. But the leap that was made here was that all of Trump’s despicable personal qualities as well as his political policies were transposed on to these kids for wearing the MAGA hat.

I just think it’s despicable to impugn a persons moral character simply for supporting what are pretty mainstream conservative ideas in the US.

That's making the presumption that Trump can ONLY be defined by those economic policies when it's perfectly clear to a lot of folks that he vacilates into ideologically dangerous waters on a whim (witness the "both sides" argument around the time of Chsrlottesville). Knowingly or not, he has become the power president for an ugly, cultural backlash from a certain corner of white America

Sean.3516

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I would regard anyone wearing one as a grade A arsehole.
And one should expect to have such a hat knocked off their head and should not be surprised at abuse received because of it.

Then I would say that because you think that, you fit the criteria for you regard the kids to be. Your transposing Trump’s intolerable personal qualities onto a bunch of kids because they support his presidency and his policies. How do you know what kind of people they are?

I think this is a pretty ignorant comment and speaks to the primary problem in today’s climate that we’re making assumptions of character and morally impugning everybody who disagrees with us politically.

That they should expect to have the hat knocked off which is assault just for wearing it. C’mon like

Calina

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Then I would say that because you think that, you fit the criteria for you regard the kids to be. Your transposing Trump’s intolerable personal qualities onto a bunch of kids because they support his presidency and his policies. How do you know what kind of people they are?

I think this is a pretty ignorant comment and speaks to the primary problem in today’s climate that we’re making assumptions of character and morally impugning everybody who disagrees with us politically.

That they should expect to have the hat knocked off which is assault just for wearing it. C’mon like

Supporting the guy means they share his racist sexist values.

Sean.3516

pixelburp wrote: »

That's making the presumption that Trump can ONLY be defined by those economic policies when it's perfectly clear to a lot of folks that he vacilates into ideologically dangerous waters on a whim (witness the "both sides" argument around the time of Chsrlottesville). Knowingly or not, he has become the power president for an ugly, cultural backlash from a certain corner of white America

I agree the Charlottesville thing was Trump at his very worst. I don’t think he can be only defined be his economic policies,I’m simply saying that no matter what way you want to define him in terms of personality and character, it’s wrong to assume everyone that everyone who wears the hat can be defined the same way. Literally millions of people have worn the hat at one time or another. Are they all of their personalities as despicable as Trump’s?

Sean.3516

Calina wrote: »

Supporting the guy means they share his racist sexist values.

None of Trump’s policies to date have been racist or sexist.

I agree that on a personal level he’s racially insensitive at times perhaps a sexist, but he did not campaign on any sexist policies or racist ones.

People liked the fact he wanted to build a wall, raise tariffs, cut taxes and give the FU to the biased media no matter what they said about him. You can like everything I’ve listed in this paragraph and still hate all of the bad personal stuff.

People wear the hats cause they support him. We can assume this means they like his policies. However it’s a leap to assume this means they like his toxic personal traits

Sean.3516

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Sure, they shouldn’t be hurt for it. But it’s because left leaning people assumed they were kooks for wearing them that there was such a bias. I honestly don’t think this would have been a story if they weren’t wearing them.

If I see someone wearing a MAGA hat, the only thing I can infer is that they support president Trump and his policies. ie. the tax cuts, tariffs, wall etc. if you disagree with those policies fair enough, at least an honest debate could be had about them. But the leap that was made here was that all of Trump’s despicable personal qualities as well as his political policies were transposed on to these kids for wearing the MAGA hat.

I just think it’s despicable to impugn a persons moral character simply for supporting what are pretty mainstream conservative ideas in the US.

If I saw someone wearing a FF/FG hat I would also think they are probably a muppet, but I view Trump as much worse. Perhaps he isn't a racist, sexist asshole(unlikely), but he doesn't seem to mind being labeled as one. His supporters seem to relish that view of him. So I dont think it's unreasonable to view these people in a bad light.

Sean.3516

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I saw someone wearing a FF/FG hat I would also think they are probably a muppet, but I view Trump as much worse. Perhaps he isn't a racist, sexist asshole(unlikely), but he doesn't seem to mind being labeled as one. His supporters seem to relish that view of him. So I dont think it's unreasonable to view these people in a bad light.

I think this is an illogical speculation. I would say the vast majority of his supporters don’t think he’s a racist or relish in the view that he is. I don’t think he is because I haven’t seen the evidence. Racists make up a ridiculously small percentage of the American population. As I’ve said above, people liked him because of his policies and because he bashed media bias wherever he encountered it. These people had 8 yrs of Obama’s condescending to the “bitter clingers” in the middle of the country and Trump was the response to that.

I don’t think he’s a racist but I do think elements of his personality are toxic. And I think your still making the leap of tarring his supporters with those same traits.

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

If I saw someone wearing a FF/FG hat I would also think they are probably a muppet, but I view Trump as much worse. Perhaps he isn't a racist, sexist asshole(unlikely), but he doesn't seem to mind being labeled as one. His supporters seem to relish that view of him. So I dont think it's unreasonable to view these people in a bad light.

The Hats thing is just big in the US , but equally here, seeing people post support for sinn fein on their social media or wearing communist hats / tshirts etc.. even the repeal jumpers. theyre normally just morons, wearing your political beliefs outdoors to most europeans seems idiotic , and rightly so in my book.

Roanmore

Just watching a documentary on The Clintons on More 4. The first episode is on about when he announced his bid to become President and the affair with Gennifer Flowers was announced.
Guess who comes on ranting against Clinton, Roger Stone. Says the public have a right to hear about his extra marital affairs and that he has a flawed character, could be describing the present incumbent.

This should be a must watch who describe the Muller investigation as a witch hunt, Ken Starr says it's all about the rule of law, irregardless of what the initial investigation was. Newt Gingrich on there as well.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The Hats thing is just big in the US , but equally here, seeing people post support for sinn fein on their social media or wearing communist hats / tshirts etc.. even the repeal jumpers. theyre normally just morons, wearing your political beliefs outdoors to most europeans seems idiotic , and rightly so in my book.

I disagree with most of the stuff you post but I agree with you here. Its daft.

Sean.3516

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The Hats thing is just big in the US , but equally here, seeing people post support for sinn fein on their social media or wearing communist hats / tshirts etc.. even the repeal jumpers. theyre normally just morons, wearing your political beliefs outdoors to most europeans seems idiotic , and rightly so in my book.

As regards the hats and the Covington kids. These kids were wearing the hats in the context of a political event: The March for Life.

Must Europeans wouldn’t think it was silly to wear clothing that makes a political statement at a political event.

If I saw someone wearing a Sinn Fein t shirt, I wouldn’t assume that that person agreed with Gerry Adams that the Brighton bombing was a “Completely legitimate action”
This is what’s happening with the kids. People are tarring them with the brush of trumps personality because they like his policies,

oscarBravo

pixelburp wrote: »

..."MAGA" by all accounts has become a catchphrase of Trumps movement; in of itself it's not ostensibly provocative...

I disagree. It's a dog whistle.

The entire point of a dog whistle, and the concept underlying the metaphor, is that a slogan can be argued to be entirely innocuous. It's the whole wide-eyed innocent "what's wrong with wanting America to be great?" schtick.

But, of course, you have to see it in the context of how it came to be used. A candidate is running to replace the country's first black president, and chooses the slogan "make America great again". The subtext - and it's not even all that "sub" - is "America was great when black people knew their place - let's bring that back".

So, yes: it's a provocative slogan, and was very much designed to be.

jobbridge4life

Sean.3516 wrote: »

None of Trump’s policies to date have been racist or sexist.

I agree that on a personal level he’s racially insensitive at times perhaps a sexist, but he did not campaign on any sexist policies or racist ones.

People liked the fact he wanted to build a wall, raise tariffs, cut taxes and give the FU to the biased media no matter what they said about him. You can like everything I’ve listed in this paragraph and still hate all of the bad personal stuff.

People wear the hats cause they support him. We can assume this means they like his policies. However it’s a leap to assume this means they like his toxic personal traits

He descended a gilded elevator calling Mexicans rapists.

He ascended the presidency using the most sexist tropes imaginable, promising punishments for women who have abortions.

Ya done.

Sean.3516

jobbridge4life wrote: »

He descended a gilded elevator calling Mexicans rapists.

He ascended the presidency using the most sexist tropes imaginable, promising punishments for women who have abortions.

Ya done.

He never said Mexicans were rapists.

He said “they’re not sending they’re best, their bringing, drugs, crime, their rapists” the entire speech was about illegal immigration from Mexico. He was referring to illegal immigrants from Mexico who as he said accurately in the speech had “lots of problems”.

looksee

Sean.3516 wrote: »

As regards the hats and the Covington kids. These kids were wearing the hats in the context of a political event: The March for Life.

Must Europeans wouldn’t think it was silly to wear clothing that makes a political statement at a political event.

If I saw someone wearing a Sinn Fein t shirt, I wouldn’t assume that that person agreed with Gerry Adams that the Brighton bombing was a “Completely legitimate action”
This is what’s happening with the kids. People are tarring them with the brush of trumps personality because they like his policies,

So maybe they should wear half and half caps, to show that they kinda support the hats that Trump specifically created and promoted, but they have reservations. Or maybe the reservations could be printed on the caps. MAGABNWT.

everlast75

Trump isn't racist?

This again!!???

Aaaannnyyway...

Fox are laying the groundwork for the inevitable truth to come out, i.e. there "was" collusion so that it'll all be a big shrug of the shoulders..

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1089545877365108737?s=19