Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Ultros

Christy42 wrote: »

So Trump congratulated the stock market yesterday on breaking 25000. Forgetting he had offered his congratulations around the same time 12 months ago when it broke 25000 for the first time showing that there is not much to be congratulated there (and that Trump has being paying attention to none of this throughout a pretty bad year for the stock market).

Job numbers were excellent in January at least.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/nonfarm-payrolls-january-2019.html

"Job growth in January shattered expectations, with nonfarm payrolls surging by 304,000, the Labor Department says. Economists surveyed by Dow Jones had expected payrolls to rise by 170,000."

Brian?

Ultros wrote: »

Job numbers were excellent in January at least.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/nonfarm-payrolls-january-2019.html

"Job growth in January shattered expectations, with nonfarm payrolls surging by 304,000, the Labor Department says. Economists surveyed by Dow Jones had expected payrolls to rise by 170,000."

That’s great news. The Obama recovery is really paying dividends now.

Cheerful Spring

Leroy42 wrote: »

I didn't criticise Putin.

You keep going on about Putin, trying to get across your version of the events in Ukraine. I don't know enough to be able to judge exactly what happened, most of my info coming from the western media which of course has a particular (though not necessarily right or wrong) slant.

I would however, state that the poisoning in the UK has pretty much been shown to be Russian backed and I see that as a pretty agrgressive and outrageous attack on a democracy which Putin has completely failed to condemn of to hand over the suspects for trial or even interview.

However, be that as it may, it still does not deal with the real issue we are talking about, and which you seem totally unable to answer.

Regardless of Putin's particular standing on anything, why do you think it right that Trump is holding secret and private meetings with him and taking his word over the evidence and experience and word of the US security services?

Is he doing this with other world leaders?

I don't disagree the Salisbury incident was an aggressive act, then again the GRU attempted to take out a traitor. By all accounts was still providing info to MI6 about Russian activities in Ukraine. The Two GRU agents who showed up in Salisbury served some time in Ukraine. We tend to overlook the Uk and the US were actively supporting the new Ukranian government with arms shipments and training after the coup. From Russia point of view, the UK is hostile to their interests.

That your opinion though. You have got know evidence Trump is doing Putin bidding. Retired intelligence officials are speaking out against Trump since he got elected I understand why Trump, does not believe them. MSBC and CNN interview these neocons to talk about Russian collusion and take their word as gospel. There no evidence Trump and Putin are in some partnership to undermine US democracy.

You can see from the Muller probe they trying to link the Hilary emails to the GRU, when In fact Julian Assange admitted already Seth Rich was the person who leaked the emails to them. There no Russian collusion to help Trump win.

looksee

There no evidence Trump and Putin are in some partnership to undermine US democracy.

Has there been any suggestion that it is a partnership? A partnership implies equals, Trump is being used, Putin does not see him as equal. Trump is not particularly trying to undermine US democracy, its just incidental and unfortunate if it happens - no not even unfortunate, he does not care about democracy, only what he can get for himself.

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Retired intelligence officials are speaking out against Trump since he got elected I understand why Trump, does not believe them.

Trump has the largest most advanced intelligence gathering and analysis apparatus on earth at his disposal and he ignores it because he knows better. That's crazy.

Cheerful Spring

looksee wrote: »

Has there been any suggestion that it is a partnership? A partnership implies equals, Trump is being used, Putin does not see him as equal. Trump is not particularly trying to undermine US democracy, its just incidental and unfortunate if it happens - no not even unfortunate, he does not care about democracy, only what he can get for himself.

So why is the Muller probe investigation all about Trump? Everyone brought in for questioning was one time or another a friend or colleague of Trump? Let's be honest its an investigation of Trump and how he beat Hilary.

Cheerful Spring

Deleted User wrote: »

Trump has the largest most advanced intelligence gathering and analysis apparatus on earth at his disposal and he ignores it because he knows better. That's crazy.

Do you think Hilary would have met in person with Kim. I can not imagine she would and she probably have started a war. Say what you will about Trump took a bold step to ease tensions in this area of the world. Hilary and people like her called for a no-fly zone over Syria. She was willing to go to war against Russia to destroy Assad, she was a lunatic.

looksee

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

So why is the Muller probe investigation all about Trump? Everyone brought in for questioning was one time or another a friend or colleague of Trump? Let's be honest its an investigation of Trump and how he beat Hilary.

?

Is that question in any way relevant to what I said?

jochenstacker

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

So why is the Muller probe investigation all about Trump? Everyone brought in for questioning was one time or another a friend or colleague of Trump? Let's be honest its an investigation of Trump and how he beat Hilary.

Trump has left absolutely no toes untrodden. He has systematically alienated just about everyone he has come in contact with. Except Putin and Kim Jon Un.
You could say that there is a long line of people patiently queueing up to stick their knife in and he hasn't got many friends left.
If your entire personality revolves around winning at all costs, getting one over on the other guy and gloating and insulting the people you've "won" against, you shouldn't be surprised when everyone in the world does indeed have it in for you.
It's just Trump's personality.
You could argue that it is unfair that people have it in for him personally, as well as professionally, and this may detract from his genuine achievements.
To that I say good!
Trump is the human equivalent of a skidmark in an underpants. I see his followers as more of the same.
People need to learn the hard way that the world is not just about trampling on other people to get what you want.
Maybe Trump is needed. He may finally implode a rotten system and maybe people will see that being hyper partisan and in the end shutting down the other side for no other reason than spite, doesn't work.
You would think that people learn this at three years old from their mum, but seemingly not and sometimes pain is the only thing that gets through their thick skull.

And:
But! But! Hillary! was many, many pages ago.
That rubbish can be safely parked.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We tend to overlook the Uk and the US were actively supporting the new Ukranian government with arms shipments and training after the coup. From Russia point of view, the UK is hostile to their interests.

Only after russians forces invaded and occupied the Ukrainian sovereign state ,and the shooting down of flight MH-17 and even after that they received next to no military assistance from the US and UK , with the exception of old obselete military vehicles that were due to be scrapped or sold as military surplus .
They the Ukrainians held off the russian military with homemade armoured vehicles in some parts.


Again trying to paint Putin as the good guy while crying about Ukraine getting some military vehicles

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Do you think Hilary would have met in person with Kim. I can not imagine she would and she probably have started a war. Say what you will about Trump took a bold step to ease tensions in this area of the world. Hilary and people like her called for a no-fly zone over Syria. She was willing to go to war against Russia to destroy Assad, she was a lunatic.

If anything concrete would have been achieved then I think she probably would have. What has Trump actually achieved with NK? Last I heard they were still developing missiles etc.

26000 Elephants

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

By all accounts [he] was still providing info to MI6 about Russian activities in Ukraine.

He was also (allegedly) the source of the intel on trump for the Steele dossier.

rossie1977

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

So why is the Muller probe investigation all about Trump? Everyone brought in for questioning was one time or another a friend or colleague of Trump? Let's be honest its an investigation of Trump and how he beat Hilary.

The investigation was started by a guy handpicked by Trump. Unless you believe Trump appointed Rod Rosenstein to investigate himself?

Cheerful Spring

looksee wrote: »

?

Is that question in any way relevant to what I said?

Yes, I believe so.

Quote by you.
A partnership implies equals, Trump is being used.

If I am wrong please correct me, but are you stating Trump is a pawn for Putin?

It obvious to me Muller is trying to undermine Trump presidency. People can deny all they like but Muller indictment of Roger stone has stories about Hilary emails getting leaked to WikiLeaks. It ridiculous when people on here claim this investigation has nothing to do with Hilary.

Cheerful Spring

26000 Elephants wrote: »

He was also (allegedly) the source of the intel on trump for the Steele dossier.

Far- Fetched theory.

The Steele Dossier is debunked.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/30/michael-steeles-russia-dossier-donald-trump-fails-/

There real scandal here was the Hilary campaign promoting faking info to hurt Trump campaign?

Cheerful Spring

Deleted User wrote: »

If anything concrete would have been achieved then I think she probably would have. What has Trump actually achieved with NK? Last I heard they were still developing missiles etc.

No war is that not a good thing? Would you prefer if he was threatening to wipe out South Korea, Japan and America?

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

No war is that not a good thing? Would you prefer if he was threatening to wipe out South Korea, Japan and America?

What's to say he won't. Trump got nothing from him.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Only after russians forces invaded and occupied the Ukrainian sovereign state ,and the shooting down of flight MH-17 and even after that they received next to no military assistance from the US and UK , with the exception of old obselete military vehicles that were due to be scrapped or sold as military surplus .
They the Ukrainians held off the russian military with homemade armoured vehicles in some parts.


Again trying to paint Putin as the good guy while crying about Ukraine getting some military vehicles

Russia black sea fleet was in already based in Crimea pre-coup. Invasion when you already there, doesn't make sense.

Just like 120% of the population voting , nonsense you keep spreading and is a lie.

If you actually did some research you see the tallies and both regions turnout to vote.


Autonomous Republic of Crimea[a][1]
Join Russian Federation
 
96.77%
Restore 1992 constitution
 
2.51%
Invalid votes
 
0.72%
Voter turnout: 83.1%

Sevastopol[2]
Join Russian Federation
 
95.60%
Restore 1992 constitution
 3.37%
Invalid votes
 1.03%
Voter turnout: 89.5%

MH-17 flew over a warzone. A mistake when Rebels were actively shooting at Ukraine planes coming in. They had no way of telling it was a commercial airliner on the radar.

We know for a fact the US supported the coup in Ukraine. I can prove it.

ECO_Mental

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

looksee wrote: »

Has there been any suggestion that it is a partnership? A partnership implies equals, Trump is being used, Putin does not see him as equal. Trump is not particularly trying to undermine US democracy, its just incidental and unfortunate if it happens - no not even unfortunate, he does not care about democracy, only what he can get for himself.

So why is the Muller probe investigation all about Trump? Everyone brought in for questioning was one time or another a friend or colleague of Trump? Let's be honest its an investigation of Trump and how he beat Hilary.

Yeah.....but not for the reasons you think! which I presume is a "deep state" revenge sour grapes investigation.

I think no matter how we all try and lay out the facts as clearly as possible you still won't be convinced even when it's smacking you in the face, but I'll give it another go...

1. EVERY intelligence agency in the USA say that the Russians wanted Trump to win and they hacked the Dems and had a very sophisticated social media campaign in favour for Trump. Even Putin himself said it standing next to Trump that he wanted him to win..

2. All above is ok if and this is a big "IF" the Russians weren't getting help or cordinating with Trump to help his campain. BUT Trumps campain team, his son and son-in-law met with Russian government agents in his own bloody front room in f**king Trump Tower. He also fired the Director of the FBI so this Russia thing could "go away" on TV.....

Now you don't have to be any genius to add up 1+1=2 . (Russian interference) + (Trump looking for Russian interference) = (special council investigation)

Now If you want say 1+1=0 then that's your problem. But you are fooling yourself only or you have other motives

Cheerful Spring

Deleted User wrote: »

What's to say he won't. Trump got nothing from him.

Wrong Kim blew up nuclear sites for reporters last year. He returned US soldiers remains from the Korean War. South Korea and North Korea have reduced tensions along the border. They are now talking in friendly tones. No more ICBMs flying over Japan. He has not carried out a new test in a year. Do you expect everything to just change overnight?

Cheerful Spring

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Yeah.....but not for the reasons you think! which I presume is a "deep state" revenge sour grapes investigation.

I think no matter how we all try and lay out the facts as clearly as possible you still won't be convinced even when it's smacking you in the face, but I'll give it another go...

1. EVERY intelligence agency in the USA say that the Russians wanted Trump to win and they hacked the Dems and had a very sophisticated social media campaign in favour for Trump. Even Putin himself said it standing next to Trump that he wanted him to win..

2. All above is ok if and this is a big "IF" the Russians weren't getting help or cordinating with Trump to help his campain. BUT Trumps campain team, his son and son-in-law met with Russian government agents in his own bloody front room in f**king Trump Tower. He also fired the Director of the FBI so this Russia thing could "go away" on TV.....

Now you don't have to be any genius to add up 1+1=2 . (Russian interference) + (Trump looking for Russian interference) = (special council investigation)

Now If you want say 1+1=0 then that's your problem. But you are fooling yourself only or you have other motives

Russia and Putin wanted Trump to win, who cares. It only matters if you believe Russia influenced voters to vote Trump. The evidence for that is shaky. Julian Assange pretty much confirmed Seth Rich a Bernie Supporter leaked the hilary emails and there no evidence Seth was a Russian spy.

Joe Rogan discussed the Seth Rich subject on his podcast you should listen to it and hear some truth about what really happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dqy6-1yfhg

What left, but a few Russian troll accounts on Social media?

patsman07

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Russia and Putin wanted Trump to win, who cares. It only matters if you believe Russia influenced voters to vote Trump. The evidence for that is shaky. Julian Assange pretty much confirmed Seth Rich a Bernie Supporter leaked the hilary emails and there no evidence Seth was a Russian spy.

Joe Rogan discussed the Seth Rich subject on his podcast you should listen to it and hear some truth about what really happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dqy6-1yfhg

What left, but a few Russian troll accounts on Social media?

The "few Russian troll accounts" were a massive operation.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/145-information-war/

Listen to the podcast above and learn about it.

I wouldn't trust anything Julian Assange says. Russia worked in Trumps favour, no thinking person can doubt that. The meeting, as someone, pointed out above was obviously a part of the collusion. Trump knew about the whole thing and was too stupid to keep his mouth shut and publicly said he hoped Russia would hack Clinton's emails.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Russia black sea fleet was in already based in Crimea pre-coup. Invasion when you already there, doesn't make sense.

Just like 120% of the population

This is varified fact not your opinion or so called research or alternative conspiracy theories .

Stick to Kennedy and the grassy knoll

Cheerful Spring

patsman07 wrote: »

The "few Russian troll accounts" were a massive operation.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/145-information-war/

Listen to the podcast above and learn about it.

I wouldn't trust anything Julian Assange says. Russia worked in Trumps favour, no thinking person can doubt that. The meeting, as someone, pointed out above was obviously a part of the collusion. Trump knew about the whole thing and was too stupid to keep his mouth shut and publicly said he hoped Russia would hack Clinton's emails.

I will take a listen to the podcast when I can. Massive operation sounds like hyperbole, can you provide a source for this claim.

You can not just make a statement like this, I don't trust anything he says when everything he said has turned out to be true. Nobody disputes Wikileaks reputation for releasing truthful information.

Trump said Russia will you find Hilary missing 33,000 emails she deleted from her server.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

This is varified fact not your opinion or so called research or alternative conspiracy theories .

Stick to Kennedy and the grassy knoll

No is Gatling opinion, you don't include facts.

ECO_Mental

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

. Nobody disputes Wikileaks reputation for releasing truthful information.

.

They will release anything that's sent to them. But it's kinda funny that it's only American and British etc secrets they release Hmmmmm.....I've never seen Russian leaks about all the nasty **** Putin is up to....I wonder Why????

everlast75

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Russia and Putin wanted Trump to win, who cares. It only matters if you believe Russia influenced voters to vote Trump. The evidence for that is shaky. Julian Assange pretty much confirmed Seth Rich a Bernie Supporter leaked the hilary emails and there no evidence Seth was a Russian spy.

Joe Rogan discussed the Seth Rich subject on his podcast you should listen to it and hear some truth about what really happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dqy6-1yfhg

All of the US intelligence agencies said Putin interfered.

Mike Pompeo said wikileaks is a hostile agency.

So your reply is

1) russia didn't interfere
2) so what if it did
3) and if it did - the democrats deserved it

That really is the Trump defence to everything.

They did that with the campaign finance violation too.

If you're being honest with yourself, just look at Trump's demeanour and body language in Helsinki. He looked so subservient it was scary.

Look at the way he flip flopped afterwards. It was embarrassing.

But if you want to believe Assange and Trump over all of the US intelligence agencies and the facts, then there's not much we can do.

And please stop with the Hilary nonsense. I tell you what - if Trump sits for 40 hours before congress and is subjected to 4 years of investigations and comes out clean, I'll proclaim his innocence. Until then....

Cheerful Spring

ECO_Mental wrote: »

They will release anything that's sent to them. But it's kinda funny that it's only American and British etc secrets they release Hmmmmm.....I've never seen Russian leaks about all the nasty **** Putin is up to....I wonder Why????

Not true. Wikileaks has released Russian Spy files.

https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/

The Western media digs deep into Russian affairs and Putin. Someone has to come forward and releasing damaging info about Putin. I don't believe Wikileaks released any info about Obama either.

Midlife

A conspiracy theorist gets faced with an actual conspiracy and now all the circumstantial evidence isn't good enough and we need concrete facts.

Bad joke.

It's clear to some that truth is totally subjective.

Cheerful Spring

everlast75 wrote: »

All of the US intelligence agencies said Putin interfered.

Mike Pompeo said wikileaks is a hostile agency.

So your reply is

1) russia didn't interfere
2) so what if it did
3) and if it did - the democrats deserved it

That really is the Trump defence to everything.

They did that with the campaign finance violation too.

If you're being honest with yourself, just look at Trump's demeanour and body language in Helsinki. He looked so subservient it was scary.

Look at the way he flip flopped afterwards. It was embarrassing.

But if you want to believe Assange and Trump over all of the US intelligence agencies and the facts, then there's not much we can do.

And please stop with the Hilary nonsense. I tell you what - if Trump sits for 40 hours before congress and is subjected to 4 years of investigations and comes out clean, I'll proclaim his innocence. Until then....

So you believe Mike Pompeo, the former head of the CIA? Do you think the CIA is happy whistleblowers leak truthful and damaging info to the public? They want the public to not know what really going on. You seem blissfully unaware to why Mike Pompe dislikes Wikileaks.

You have convicted Trump even though they're not a shred of evidence has got releasing, or leaked showing Putin and Trump are working together. Poor conspiracy theory, with very little evidence. You guys think you have facts when in reality is just speculation right now amongst some people in this thread.

I don't believe Trump. There could well be something there to find, but speculation is not evidence.

Now you trying to stifle debate. It not Hilary nonsense. Everything i brought up is not out of context.

Read this if you believe otherwise
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/25/roger-stone-indictment-arrest-analysis#img-1