Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Gbear

seamus wrote: »

And there's no good reason not to put it in place. Nobody "earns" more than $10m. That's all unearned income - share appreciation, inheritance and interest. Nobody is being robbed of the fruits of their labour.

Aren't all of those taxed separately to income tax though?

For example, inheritance tax, or capital gains.

To put it another way, is there any comprehensive policy on this that not only addresses ordinary income above $10m, but also addresses how behaviour will change as a direct result, adjusting other forms of taxation, such as capital gains, corporation tax, and that takes into account what effects they might have on the market?

I don't have any particularly strong feelings on arbitrarily set levels of taxation - I'm more concerned with justifying what is spent than how it's acquired, but is this 70% marginal tax rate much more than a populist soundbite?

Leroy42 wrote: »

I always laugh when I hear the US come out with talks of Africa and China being worse than them in terms of Co2 or whatever.

So what. There are clear advantages to moving to green energy. It would be great if the whole world did it at the same time but the US should be, as regards itself, as a world leader yet continually dries that it can only follow.

Another obvious benefit is that a huge domestic industry will begin to create the apparatus to spread that industry abroad. Not only will it be worth a fortune in the US gaining a march on the competition in mature technology, but it will be a huge resource for the whole world to avail of.
It's exactly the sort of good capitalism that has benefited the world massively in the past couple of centuries. It's just being handicapped by the existing powers in energy and transportation who are trying to squeeze every last drop of profit out before they piss off into the sunset and leave everyone else to clean up after them when they're retired or dead.

embraer170

Ultros wrote: »

Apologies for large pics, too much effort resizing on phone.

According to Forbes...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-than-the-u-s-and-eu-combined/

"China Emits More Carbon Dioxide Than The U.S. and EU Combined"

That's great, but China's population is also greater than the US and EU combined. China also happens to manufacture a very large % of of the (CO2 intensive) goods consumed in the US and EU.

batgoat

I actually do have one problem with the Green New Deal, it's more around its stance on nuclear. It's a necessary alternative and it's become considerably more efficient and safer than technology from decades ago.

listermint

batgoat wrote: »

I actually do have one problem with the Green New Deal, it's more around its stance on nuclear. It's a necessary alternative and it's become considerably more efficient and safer than technology from decades ago.

But is incredibly incredibly expensive and leaves waste that no one wants and is incredibly expensive to dispose of.

serfboard

batgoat wrote: »

nuclear ... [is] a necessary alternative and it's become considerably more efficient and safer than technology from decades ago.

This was true one time, but is not anymore.

Renewables + Storage (in the form of mega-batteries) is the only alternative to fossil fuels needed now.

marno21

serfboard wrote: »

This was true one time, but is not anymore.

Renewables + Storage (in the form of mega-batteries) is the only alternative to fossil fuels needed now.

Plus there are other alternatives whilst we wait for battery technology to mature economically such as pumped storage.

However, nuclear is still a better option than the "clean coal" ramblings from the current President. I can't see much changing whilst the Acting Administrator of the EPA is a former coal industry lobbyist.

Jamiekelly

everlast75 wrote: »

Its the lying that gets me.

If nothing was afoot, why did Flynn, Popadopolous, Manafort, Gates, Stone and many more to come, lie if there was no "there there".

That's what has me curious.

My own view is that Trump was compromised, if over nothing else, his lying about Trump Tower.

I knew he was crooked when he wouldn't release his tax returns and lied about him being under audit. It was a massive red flag that a Billionaire who has claimed bankruptcy three times won't show his accounts. Especially when he's about to enter an office he can abuse, in what can only be described as insider trading heaven.

When I seen he had appointed Ben Carson to be his secretary of Housing and Urban Development, I knew he had appointed a yes man who would do whatever he asked, would cut the housing budget by billions without question and feed him (or his son) valuable information on upcoming property redevelopment schemes. So his son could buy up as much land as he could before they were set to announce it. Easy money for a real estate mogul.

"On March 15, 2018, the New York Times reported that Special Counsel Robert Mueller, as part of his inquiry into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, had previously issued a subpoena for documents from the Trump Organization. Alan S. Futerfas, a lawyer representing the Trump Organization, said: “Since July 2017, we have advised the public that the Trump Organization is fully cooperative with all investigations, including the special counsel, and is responding to their requests.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/trump-organization-subpoena-mueller-russia.html

I wonder if Ben Carson's name gets mentioned somewhere down the line in Muellers report. I'm sure the Trump Organisation has made some very weird property buys over the last two years and Carson will be implicated as Trumps own useful idiot.

everlast75

Any fiscal conservatives on here?


https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1095648776818229248



And whatever happened to Trump's promised tax cut for the middle class, just before the midterms?

ECO_Mental

everlast75 wrote: »

Any fiscal conservatives on here?


https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1095648776818229248


And whatever happened to Trump's promised tax cut for the middle class, just before the midterms?

This is the old tried and tested GOP two step that they have being doing for decades.

1. Give a load of tax breaks to the poor starving rich and shameless and drive up the national debt when in power. Joe Public loves them for lowering their taxes.
2. When out of power hammer the Dems for the rising debt and how the Dems have to raise the taxes back up to pay back the debt. Also the public now hate the Dems for raising taxes...

Simple but very effective :mad::mad: its a win win

Eric Cartman

listermint wrote: »

But is incredibly incredibly expensive and leaves waste that no one wants and is incredibly expensive to dispose of.

Thats only temporary though, its waste is the uranium that was pulled from the ground , when youre done you put the spent uranium back in the mine and thats it . All of the radioactive waste is the depleted remnants of radioactive materials that were.....already in existance....

Leroy42

ECO_Mental wrote: »

This is the old tried and tested GOP two step that they have being doing for decades.

1. Give a load of tax breaks to the poor starving rich and shameless and drive up the national debt when in power. Joe Public loves them for lowering their taxes.
2. When out of power hammer the Dems for the rising debt and how the Dems have to raise the taxes back up to pay back the debt. Also the public now hate the Dems for raising taxes...

Simple but very effective :mad::mad: its a win win

I think it might be different this time.

They really haven't made tax cuts for the vast majority. They have given massive tax cuts to corporations and the very wealthy, but the Joe and Jane are going to see very little in terms of tax cuts.

Its the ultimate trickle down economics, in that the middle and lower class will be hoping to get some of the crumbs from the extra bread that the wealthy are going to get.

And in isolation that is fine, except of course that it is the middle and lower class that have actually paid for the tax cuts in the first place.

Leroy42

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats only temporary though, its waste is the uranium that was pulled from the ground , when youre done you put the spent uranium back in the mine and thats it . All of the radioactive waste is the depleted remnants of radioactive materials that were.....already in existance....

I really don't thin you understand how nuclear reactors work. Do you understand how they extract energy?

Do you honestly believe that radioactive waste is simply sitting under the ground and that it is temporary in nature?

Eric Cartman

Leroy42 wrote: »

I really don't thin you understand how nuclear reactors work. Do you understand how they extract energy?

Do you honestly believe that radioactive waste is simply sitting under the ground and that it is temporary in nature?

What in saying is that the radioactive materials by tonne extracted from the ground produce 1 tonne of waste to be put back in the ground , its not as if more is being made, you just cant put it back into an active mine

Leroy42

Eric Cartman wrote: »

What in saying is that the radioactive materials by tonne extracted from the ground produce 1 tonne of waste to be put back in the ground , its not as if more is being made, you just cant put it back into an active mine

But it is a completely different material. it has been fundamentally changed, hence the radioactivity.

It is not the same things at all.

By that logic burning coal makes no difference since we are simply turning coal into smoke!

That is not to say that nuclear energy is not far better than the use of carbon based energy like coal and gas.

What the green plan aims for is massive increase in the use of green energy, essentially skipping the troublesome middle step of nuclear energy and going all out for renewables. Given the massive strides achieved in green energy over the last number of years, and remember that the very idea of renewable energy was laughed at by many, it makes sense to look to build a future based on this.

The US such a diverse country that it has ample opportunity to take advantage of every form of renewable energy. But it requires a new way of thinking and a longer than 2 or 3 years plan. But again, Trump is stuck thinking about a wall, that is about as far as his plan goes. He has no interest in the longer term for the US, only in his own short term advantage.

listermint

Eric Cartman wrote: »

What in saying is that the radioactive materials by tonne extracted from the ground produce 1 tonne of waste to be put back in the ground , its not as if more is being made, you just cant put it back into an active mine

This is incredibly embarrassing viewpoint. What your saying is evidently true in terms of X = Y but When Y is something that is so destructive when it becomes Y that it could kill a human just by proximity or is classed as a national security threat not to mention incredibly wide spreading environmental impacts its not as simple as you just pretended it to be.


I mean of all the things youve said so far this one frankly. .... Doesn't surprise me.

Igotadose

Eric Cartman wrote: »

What in saying is that the radioactive materials by tonne extracted from the ground produce 1 tonne of waste to be put back in the ground , its not as if more is being made, you just cant put it back into an active mine

Uhh...

Many *many* tons of rock are mined (or essentially fracked, nowadays) to extract the small percentage of uranium that's found there. That, in turn, is concentrated (enriched) to make forms that in turn can be turned into plutonium (or whatever the reactor in question runs on). At each stage, the toxicity increases multi-fold; rocks in the ground with trace amounts of uranium in them aren't terribly hazardous. Enriched uranium is.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/nuclear-basics/how-is-uranium-ore-made-into-nuclear-fuel.aspx

amandstu

I too support the use of nuclear energy (I have changed my mind over the years).

However Cartman's level of ignorance concerning radioactive waste is so deep that I have to wonder has he ever considered just not posting when there is a subject he clearly has zero knowledge of?

Well post to ask a question by all means .

The question of the safe disposal of nuclear waste is ongoing and the timescales involved are daunting (which is why I am still fearful of the industry even as I accept it may need to be part of our energy mix for now- until nuclear fusion is developed perhaps)

Walter Bishop

Jacob Wohl says that Trump has been learning Farsi for the last three months and is already more fluent than a native speaker, and here I thought Trump was a dimwit and Wohl a liar

https://twitter.com/JacobAWohl/status/1095074956260470785?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

A coherent interview in English would be a start for Trump.

Stallingrad

Jesus wept, was POTUS 44 just a dream? Say what you will about the man, no-one can debate he was the consummate figurehead, you know, the top person you would like to represent your country, AKA the President.

How has the US allowed itself been reduced to this embarrassing freakshow?

BabyCheeses

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Jacob Wohl says that Trump has been learning Farsi for the last three months and is already more fluent than a native speaker, and here I thought Trump was a dimwit and Wohl a liar

https://twitter.com/JacobAWohl/status/1095074956260470785?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

A coherent interview in English would be a start for Trump.

To be fair to trump it wouldn't take a lot for him to get to his level of English in another language.

We were told Obama is a Muslim, with all the projection it raises some questions about trump.

pixelburp

Would Donald Trump the man be easier to swallow, if his followers weren't such spectacular sycophants and toadies? I always expect supporters of any politician to go out of their way to defend their (wo)man, or indeed attempt to diplomatically colour the failings. It's part & parcel of the game, and we're all used to it. Even with political disasters like Brexit, I understand those trying to make it happen have to put a brave face on things.

"More fluent than most native speakers?" however? Like, there's no other way around it, that's North Korean, "18 holes in one" zealotry. It's not even hagiography at this stage. It's pure Cult of Personality, sub-Jim Jones territory.

Lord knows George W. Bush made enough headlines with his various gaffs and moments of plain idiocy, but I don't recall his supporters being so utterly dogmatic to the point of blind adoration. It is kinda scary when you step back from it all.

Walter Bishop

The principal problem in politics now is that people are no longer getting most of their news from the same sources, which were newspapers and television. They now get their 'news' from social media echo chambers which simple widens divisions that were already there and polarises people such that 'their man' must never be criticised or disagreed with.

pixelburp

Walter Bishop wrote: »

The principal problem in politics now is that people are no longer getting most of their news from the same sources, which were newspapers and television. They now get their 'news' from social media echo chambers which simple widens divisions that were already there and polarises people such that 'their man' must never be criticised or disagreed with.

Yeah I get that, but that tweet goes beyond Echo Chamber into something weirder and arguably much darker; and it's not particularly isolated either, there's a steady stream of fawning indulgence that tips over from 'echo chamber' or 'political strategy' into full blown cult obsession.

hotmail.com

pixelburp wrote:

Would Donald Trump the man be easier to swallow, if his followers weren't such spectacular sycophants and toadies? I always expect supporters of any politician to go out of their way to defend their (wo)man, or indeed attempt to diplomatically colour the failings. It's part & parcel of the game, and we're all used to it. Even with political disasters like Brexit, I understand those trying to make it happen have to put a brave face on things.

pixelburp wrote:

"More fluent than most native speakers?" however? Like, there's no other way around it, that's North Korean, "18 holes in one" zealotry. It's not even hagiography at this stage. It's pure Cult of Personality, sub-Jim Jones territory.

pixelburp wrote:

Lord knows George W. Bush made enough headlines with his various gaffs and moments of plain idiocy, but I don't recall his supporters being so utterly dogmatic to the point of blind adoration. It is kinda scary when you step back from it all.

Trump supporters are aware that he is an idiot. But they don't care. That's something the anti Trump faction don't understand.

jochenstacker

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats only temporary though, its waste is the uranium that was pulled from the ground , when youre done you put the spent uranium back in the mine and thats it . All of the radioactive waste is the depleted remnants of radioactive materials that were.....already in existance....

I refuse to believe that you are this ignorant or innocent about nuclear waste, so I have to take this post as being disingenuous at best, I even think you posted this simply to rile people up.
Because absolutely no one is this uninformed about nuclear energy.
I find it sad that you resort to this type of low form posting.
Your posting style could be more effective if you posted statements based on facts, rather than trying to fit "facts" around your ideology?
Because it's very transparent and no one's buying it.

Penn

hotmail.com wrote: »

Trump supporters are aware that he is an idiot. But they don't care. That's something the anti Trump faction don't understand.

I would say most, but not all. Most see him as a means to an end. He's furthering Republican goals, even if he's doing it in the worst ways possible.

But there are definitely a not-inconsequential percentage of his supporters who are all aboard the Trump Train and see him as a genius who is shaking up the system. They see him as someone who sees through and is destroying the political standard simply because he's not a politician and doesn't act like a politician, even though that's largely due to general ineptitude rather than by design.

everlast75

pixelburp wrote: »

Would Donald Trump the man be easier to swallow, if his followers weren't such spectacular sycophants and toadies?

I think its the case that when he first entered the arena, there were those who bought into the "snake oil salesman" gig.

2 years in, the above are the only type of people remaining.

Everyone else has "left the building".

What I find incredulous is those that remain are willing to stick their neck on the line for him, when it is manifestly clear that he doesn't give two ***** about anyone but himself.

You are either the best person in the world, or utter garbage, depending on his mood.

The only justice I see is that the likes of Conway and Sanders and Miller will soon find that out, just as Bannon, Cohen et al already have.

jochenstacker

hotmail.com wrote: »

Trump supporters are aware that he is an idiot. But they don't care. That's something the anti Trump faction don't understand.

Oh no, it's been very clear that the hardcore Trump supporters love him specifically because of the racism, sexism, intolerance towards gays and women and the general sh*ty attitude the man projects.
If you follow a few discussion forums, you hear that they elected him because they were fed up with all those horrible things the libtards "forced" on them, such as tolerance, healthcare, rights for gays (they haven't gotten as far as LBTQ yet), education, environmentalism or social welfare.
They specifically want someone who lies to them, exploits them and steals their education, welfare and pension and puts minorities, gays and women in their place.
I don't understand that mindset and I have not ever met a hardcore Trump supporter that wasn't a massive tosser.

spacecoyote

pixelburp wrote: »

Would Donald Trump the man be easier to swallow, if his followers weren't such spectacular sycophants and toadies? I always expect supporters of any politician to go out of their way to defend their (wo)man, or indeed attempt to diplomatically colour the failings. It's part & parcel of the game, and we're all used to it. Even with political disasters like Brexit, I understand those trying to make it happen have to put a brave face on things.

"More fluent than most native speakers?" however? Like, there's no other way around it, that's North Korean, "18 holes in one" zealotry. It's not even hagiography at this stage. It's pure Cult of Personality, sub-Jim Jones territory.

Lord knows George W. Bush made enough headlines with his various gaffs and moments of plain idiocy, but I don't recall his supporters being so utterly dogmatic to the point of blind adoration. It is kinda scary when you step back from it all.

CNN, NBC, etc... should pool together & just send in reporters with press passes that are native Farsi speakers to the next press conference (assuming he ever has one again), and just put all their questions to him in their native tongue & see what happens.

We all know what the results would be, but it would still make for great TV

BabyCheeses

hotmail.com wrote: »

Trump supporters are aware that he is an idiot. But they don't care. That's something the anti Trump faction don't understand.

Many republicans are aware that he is an idiot. Many Trump supporters aren't. You dont join a cult that worships and tries to find the true meaning of his words when you think they are an idiot.

People might have some respect left for them if they could just say the man is as dumb as a spanner but is still a useful tool.