Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

circadian

That's be pretty funny to see, I imagine it would go along the lines of this https://globalnews.ca/video/4640749/trump-says-he-cant-understand-three-international-reporters

jobbridge4life

hotmail.com wrote: »

Trump supporters are aware that he is an idiot. But they don't care. That's something the anti Trump faction don't understand.

I do not accept that. A certain proportion, particularly the 'higher-up' boosters may indeed consider him an idiot but not most of his entire cadre of supporters.

Most may know he is very lose with the truth, most may know he is not a moral man, most may even know he is a racist, sexual deviant but I think they also believe he is a kind of savant underneath it all. We've seen this depiction of Trump from even his opponents.

His money, and the persona of success is 'proof' that he must be in the know... for this reason I think he is so steadfastly against releasing his tax returns and full disclosure of his business dealings.

Ultros

Have a look at proposed legislation like the "Green new deal" with one liners like "Those unwilling to work will be looked after financially", you can probably start to understand why people are continuing to back him. If there wasn't such an extreme faction within the Democratic party, socialism, antisemitism, identity politics, post birth Abortions and so on, there's no way Trump would have what appears to be a 45-50% approval rating from the latest string of polls ( gallup 44, hill/harris 47, politico/morning consult 45, Rassmussen 49 ).

A moderate like Biden would have walked it against Trump in the 2016 election, and he's the clear front runner for 2020 although he'd be pretty old for office if he does decide to run. You can keep blaming Trump supporters and the dumb orange man but perhaps having a little self reflection might go a long way.

pixelburp

Ultros wrote: »

A moderate like Biden would have walked it against Trump in the 2016 election, and he's the clear front runner for 2020 although he'd be pretty old for office if he does decide to run. You can keep blaming Trump supporters and the dumb orange man but perhaps having a little self reflection might go a long way.

"Self reflection"? I'm neither American, nor a knee-jerk Democrat voter were I able to vote there - so spare that particular canard.

And how is it that no matter how dumb, insensitive or abhorrent Trump behaves it's somehow the Democrats fault?

You're right about one thing, were the Democrats a bit more unified they should have walked the 2016 election, and a flooded field in 2020 could risk the same. But again this isn't necessarily the Democrats fault: if a country insists upon a 2 party system, there's simply no way to accodmate the vast plethora of political viewpoints, especially with 'socialism' of some form becoming more acceptable & mainstream.

Ultros

pixelburp wrote: »

And how is it that no matter how dumb, insensitive or abhorrent Trump behaves it's somehow the Democrats fault?

I was talking about the election itself, don't twist what I said please. The Democrats lost it, Trump wouldn't have won vs any decent candidate. So point is if the Democrats ran a moderate like Biden they would have won the 2016 election, but even since the election they've continued to veer way over to the left.

I've seen people here throw around statements that the Republicans are becoming more and more extreme but the reality is, at least according to pew research, that it's the Democrats who have veered far left whilst the Republican party have largely remained right of center.

If the goal of this discussion for the people throwing around words like "cult" is to figure out how in God's name can people support Trump or even vote for him I'll try to describe it in simple terms. They know he's not articulate or well mannered or even coherent most of the time ( this is mostly true ). The reasoning or answer is that they believe the alternative option is worse.

hotmail.com

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I do not accept that. A certain proportion, particularly the 'higher-up' boosters may indeed consider him an idiot but not most of his entire cadre of supporters.

Most may know he is very lose with the truth, most may know he is not a moral man, most may even know he is a racist, sexual deviant but I think they also believe he is a kind of savant underneath it all. We've seen this depiction of Trump from even his opponents.

I've spoken with Trump voters. They know he's an idiot. It's not a secret.

They voted for Trump because he was running for the Republican party. It's the same in most countries. Loyalty to one party no matter what. Same in Ireland,same in the UK.

They would often prefer he didn't tweet as often, but they will vote for him again because he's a Republican.

everlast75

hotmail.com wrote: »

They would often prefer he didn't tweet as often, but they will vote for him again because he's a Republican.

Even though he previously was a registered democrat

jobbridge4life

hotmail.com wrote: »

I've spoken with Trump voters. They know he's an idiot. It's not a secret.

They voted for Trump because he was running for the Republican party. It's the same in most countries. Loyalty to one party no matter what. Same in Ireland,same in the UK.

They would often prefer he didn't tweet as often, but they will vote for him again because he's a Republican.

I've spoken with Trump voters. They believed he was playing the long game and would win in the end because 'he knows how to get things done'.

:rolleyes:

pixelburp

Ultros wrote: »

I was talking about the election itself, don't twist what I said please. The Democrats lost it, Trump wouldn't have won vs any decent candidate. So point is if the Democrats ran a moderate like Biden they would have won the 2016 election, but even since the election they've continued to veer way over to the left.

No twisting intended, but it wasn't clear who the "You" was meant to be when talking about "self reflection".

Ultros wrote: »

I've seen people here throw around statements that the Republicans are becoming more and more extreme but the reality is, at least according to pew research, that it's the Democrats who have veered far left whilst the Republican party have largely remained right of center.

Which is only inevitable while the two party system insists that every colour on the political spectrum must choose a side; being as they have always been vaguely left of centre, it's only natural the likes of AOC choose the Democrats, because where else are socialist minded politicians meant to go (if they're serious about running for office)? The end result of course are the increasing cracks and divisions between the 'establishment' old guard and those increasingly insisting that socialist policies aren't the Economic and Social Satan some might imply.

The ACA may have been a seed planted towards that sentiment, when it was realised that some kind of governmental healthcare is a good thing to have, when the alternative is being crippled with medical debt.

Something has to give, and I certainly don't have the answer. A Third Party is the obvious one, but that's no easy task.

Ultros wrote: »

If the goal of this discussion for the people throwing around words like "cult" is to figure out how in God's name can people support Trump or even vote for him I'll try to describe it in simple terms. They know he's not articulate or well mannered or even coherent most of the time ( this is mostly true ). The reasoning or answer is that they believe the alternative option is worse.

And that might account for ones political beliefs or preferences, but when people start throwing around talk of Trumps immediate grasp of Farsi, that has gone way past mere partisan politics, that's a demonstrable Cult of Personality. Obviously it's not the case with every voter or supporter, and certainly 2020 will reveal any shift in support via the ballot box, but there's something more going on here than simple politics.

hotmail.com

everlast75 wrote: »

Even though he previously was a registered democrat

His hypocrisy doesn't bother his voters.

Den14

Whilst I think this thread is particularly anti Trump it reflects an issue that is what I believe is a major issue in the Democratic camp and the left in general. All they do is take aim and look for any way to put Trump down. That seems to take up most of their time and resources. Look at how this Russian collusion farce has gone. The latest is that Senate Intel found no collusion between Trump and Russia. This is after about 2 years! Of course most folks in here will not accept this as per usual and continue their impeachment crusade. This goes right across the board. Maybe if the left could unfocus on Trump and instead focus on how they can improve America. Then maybe they could get somewhere in this upcoming election. You're just playing into his hands guys constantly stewing in your disapproval

everlast75

Den14 wrote: »

Whilst I think this thread is particularly anti Trump it reflects an issue that is what I believe is a major issue in the Democratic camp and the left in general. All they do is take aim and look for any way to put Trump down. That seems to take up most of their time and resources. Look at how this Russian collusion farce has gone. The latest is that Senate Intel found no collusion between Trump and Russia. This is after about 2 years! Of course most folks in here will not accept this as per usual and continue their impeachment crusade. This goes right across the board. Maybe if the left could unfocus on Trump and instead focus on how they can improve America. Then maybe they could get somewhere in this upcoming election. You're just playing into his hands guys constantly stewing in your disapproval

*sigh*

Is that what the Senate intel committee said?

Maybe look into that and try again.

duploelabs

Den14 wrote: »

Whilst I think this thread is particularly anti Trump it reflects an issue that is what I believe is a major issue in the Democratic camp and the left in general. All they do is take aim and look for any way to put Trump down. That seems to take up most of their time and resources. Look at how this Russian collusion farce has gone. The latest is that Senate Intel found no collusion between Trump and Russia. This is after about 2 years! Of course most folks in here will not accept this as per usual and continue their impeachment crusade. This goes right across the board. Maybe if the left could unfocus on Trump and instead focus on how they can improve America. Then maybe they could get somewhere in this upcoming election. You're just playing into his hands guys constantly stewing in your disapproval

The same republican-controlled senate Intel Committee who don't have the powers of subpoena, nor the assistance of the members of trump's inner circle who have plea-bargained

jobbridge4life

Den14 wrote: »

Whilst I think this thread is particularly anti Trump it reflects an issue that is what I believe is a major issue in the Democratic camp and the left in general. All they do is take aim and look for any way to put Trump down. That seems to take up most of their time and resources. Look at how this Russian collusion farce has gone. The latest is that Senate Intel found no collusion between Trump and Russia. This is after about 2 years! Of course most folks in here will not accept this as per usual and continue their impeachment crusade. This goes right across the board. Maybe if the left could unfocus on Trump and instead focus on how they can improve America. Then maybe they could get somewhere in this upcoming election. You're just playing into his hands guys constantly stewing in your disapproval

It is an awfully weird theme amongst the occasional Trump boosters in this thread that they seem to believe we are all somehow actively involved in/impacting upon US politics... as opposed to you know Irish people having a discussion...

Den14

jobbridge4life wrote: »

It is an awfully weird theme amongst the occasional Trump boosters in this thread that they seem to believe we are all somehow actively involved in/impacting upon US politics... as opposed to you know Irish people having a discussion...

Oh sorry I didn't know this thread was just for the Irish folk

rossie1977

Every president gets a little bump in approval post sotu. Fact is Trump is underwater in many states that voted for him in 2016 and by double digits in places like Michigan, Wisconsin.

Since when did becoming more liberal mean becoming extremist? Equating liberal with far left is also quite silly.

Modern western societies should be progressive not regressive and looking to return to the past.

Hillary Clinton was a moderate, she would be a considered centre right here in Europe so your point about not picking a moderate is really weird.

jobbridge4life

Den14 wrote: »

Oh sorry I didn't know this thread was just for the Irish folk

You are Irish. This is an Irish forum. I'm sorry if both of those facts escaped you.

Igotadose

Den14 wrote: »

Whilst I think this thread is particularly anti Trump it reflects an issue that is what I believe is a major issue in the Democratic camp and the left in general. All they do is take aim and look for any way to put Trump down. That seems to take up most of their time and resources. Look at how this Russian collusion farce has gone. The latest is that Senate Intel found no collusion between Trump and Russia. This is after about 2 years! Of course most folks in here will not accept this as per usual and continue their impeachment crusade. This goes right across the board. Maybe if the left could unfocus on Trump and instead focus on how they can improve America. Then maybe they could get somewhere in this upcoming election. You're just playing into his hands guys constantly stewing in your disapproval

Funny, our stewing in our disapproval in Ireland seems to have had some effect on the midterms, especially in the house. Didn't realize we had such influence in US elections.

Full disclosure: I'm a US citizen living full-time in Ireland. Perhaps I have more powers than I thought, remote though I am from where I used to live.

As for the 'russian collusion farce,' well, as has been pointed out, plenty has been found out about the workings of Trump's campaign. Something amazing like 90 indictments so far. All regarding inappropriate behaviors stemming from Russian discussions (Flynn - the *National Security Advisor* Trump picked), or "simply" tax fraud not declaring income & business relationships *with Russia*.

No smoking gun document of "Hey, Vlad, go fix the votes in Florida for me" from the Don. So what, as they say in the US, lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.

One other thing - it's the tGOP and Foxbots like yourself that insist everyone voting Democratic is "the left." Hint: we're not. Other hint: Everyone voting R is not 'the right.' People have all sorts of views on all sides.

relax carry on

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah I get that, but that tweet goes beyond Echo Chamber into something weirder and arguably much darker; and it's not particularly isolated either, there's a steady stream of fawning indulgence that tips over from 'echo chamber' or 'political strategy' into full blown cult obsession.

And not to Godwin the thread, but the cult of personality around Trump has echoes of those other cults associated with strongman leaders such as Hitler, Stalin and the Kims. Trump is a wannabe strongman reveling in his cult with all its associated faults and failings.

It's not even really about Trump anymore for me. Someone like Trump doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's his enablers and his hard core/cult of personality supporters that interest me. These are people from a first world country educated to some level who have embraced a clearly wannabe strongman/dictator. How messed up must your society be to allow that to happen.

hotmail.com

Den14 wrote: »

Whilst I think this thread is particularly anti Trump it reflects an issue that is what I believe is a major issue in the Democratic camp and the left in general. All they do is take aim and look for any way to put Trump down. That seems to take up most of their time and resources. Look at how this Russian collusion farce has gone. The latest is that Senate Intel found no collusion between Trump and Russia. This is after about 2 years! Of course most folks in here will not accept this as per usual and continue their impeachment crusade. This goes right across the board. Maybe if the left could unfocus on Trump and instead focus on how they can improve America. Then maybe they could get somewhere in this upcoming election. You're just playing into his hands guys constantly stewing in your disapproval

Agree totally.

Plus the anti Trump people fail to realise that most people do not care about the Russian thing. I'm not sure they even understand it. They care about the bread and butter issues that affects their daily lives. The anti Trump side seem to personal loathe Trump and have lost the run of themselves.

Voters regularly will overlook impropriety if their needs are satisfied. It happens in Ireland too.

everlast75

hotmail.com wrote: »

Agree totally.

Plus the anti Trump people fail to realise that most people do not care about the Russian thing. I'm not sure they even understand it. They care about the bread and butter issues that affects their daily lives. The anti Trump side seem to personal loathe Trump and have lost the run of themselves.

Voters regularly will overlook impropriety if their needs are satisfied. It happens in Ireland too.

Bread and butter issues like the deficit going through the roof, like Trump costing the economy 11 billion with the shut down, like making a mockery of the claim that America is the best democracy in the world by not having a problem with foreign interference, like being sold a pup with the tax cut that didn't manifest into any break for those that need it.

Couldn't agree with ye more.

Cookie_Monster

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats only temporary though, its waste is the uranium that was pulled from the ground , when youre done you put the spent uranium back in the mine and thats it . All of the radioactive waste is the depleted remnants of radioactive materials that were.....already in existance....

or you know, use thorium... Uranium is so last century. Thorium reactors are way more efficient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

Cookie_Monster

Ultros wrote: »

I was talking about the election itself, don't twist what I said please. The Democrats lost it, Trump wouldn't have won vs any decent candidate. So point is if the Democrats ran a moderate like Biden they would have won the 2016 election, but even since the election they've continued to veer way over to the left.

I've seen people here throw around statements that the Republicans are becoming more and more extreme but the reality is, at least according to pew research, that it's the Democrats who have veered far left whilst the Republican party have largely remained right of center.

If the goal of this discussion for the people throwing around words like "cult" is to figure out how in God's name can people support Trump or even vote for him I'll try to describe it in simple terms. They know he's not articulate or well mannered or even coherent most of the time ( this is mostly true ). The reasoning or answer is that they believe the alternative option is worse.

But you need to accept that the starting point on that graph is very far to the right already. Democrats are still right by most European standards so even the above veer to the left is only getting slightly left of a normal central position.

hotmail.com

everlast75 wrote: »

Bread and butter issues like the deficit going through the roof, like Trump costing the economy 11 billion with the shut down, like making a mockery of the claim that America is the best democracy in the world by not having a problem with foreign interference, like being sold a pup with the tax cut that didn't manifest into any break for those that need it.

Couldn't agree with ye more.

With the exception of the tax cut, they are not bread and butter issues.

everlast75

hotmail.com wrote: »

With the exception of the tax cut, they are not bread and butter issues.

Costing the economy 11 billion isn't relevant?
Spiking the deficit isn't relevant?

Nonsense.

If the dems were doing this there'd be apoplectic rage by the Rep supporters.

Trump followers are just hypocrites. Simple as that really.

hotmail.com

everlast75 wrote: »

Costing the economy 11 billion isn't relevant?
Spiking the deficit isn't relevant?

Nonsense.

If the dems were doing this there'd be apoplectic rage by the Rep supporters.

Trump followers are just hypocrites. Simple as that really.

You just see everything as Dem versus Rep.. It's just boring.

everlast75

hotmail.com wrote: »

You just see everything as Dem versus Rep.. It's just boring.

How about you retort with some facts rather than some soundbites?

BabyCheeses

hotmail.com wrote: »

You just see everything as Dem versus Rep.. It's just boring.

Welcome to a 2 party system.

aloyisious

Eric Cartman wrote: »

What in saying is that the radioactive materials by tonne extracted from the ground produce 1 tonne of waste to be put back in the ground , its not as if more is being made, you just cant put it back into an active mine

It's just that the composition of the material has changed due to the process it went through in the power plant. It may weigh the same but it's not an inert group of different materials just taken from the earth and returnable-to just as easily, it's been made into active fission-material.

Dohnjoe

hotmail.com wrote: »

Agree totally.

Plus the anti Trump people fail to realise that most people do not care about the Russian thing.

Polls consistently show a majority of Americans want the investigation followed through to the end

Also, anti-Trump? The man is an extreme narcissist (Mussolini levels), a pathological liar, racist, sexist, interminable hypocrite (on a daily basis), sensationalist, possibly up to his neck in corruption, unprincipled, constantly abuses people/officials/heads of state/etc on twitter like an adolescent, anti-free-press, anti-climate, pro-far-right, it's like some bad 80's disney film where a tantrum throwing ten year old child has messed with an old fairground machine and turned into the US president

It would actually be difficult to come up with a more extreme character

Outside of his core support base he's deeply unpopular anywhere else for the above (and many other) reasons. This isn't opinion, every single criticism above can be backed up to hilt with dozens if not hundreds of examples