Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Igotadose

listermint wrote: »

I did say people don't need gentrification. I stand by it. It pushes working people out of areas. That's what it does and makes money for property speculators.

Amazon would gentrify the area and provide a vast amount of low paying jobs and a small amount for high paying ones.

We have clear statistics of the tax payer subsidising this type of work through social assistances. That's not right. That's never right.

Can you imagine the Irish tax payer giving food and stamps to intel employees for example.

Amazon claimed they'd be creating a large number of high paying jobs, and modernizing a run-down former manufacturing (former being the operative word here) of Long Island City. Amazon has its low-paying fulfillment centers elsewhere (Staten Island comes to mind.) State-level tax breaks are always used in the US to entice business. Infrastructure improvements are another. Consider that Apple data center that ended up not happening in Athenry. Who is better off as a result? The folks up that area that now don't have new jobs coming? Same thing for LI City and Amazon. No other company will go there now.

And, it's not like the locals have the same degree of social safety net that the good folk of Athenry have. No dole, no free medical care, school susbsidies, nothing. No job, no pay, no food, no housing is the way of things in the US.

NY's worst neighborhoods are beyond imagining here. Constant high crime, gun violence, extreme poverty. LI City would've welcomed the improvements Amazon would have brought there, but now, Amazon'll look elsewhere. This is the way of things and, yeah, other districts will roll out the red carpet. The area in question will be worse off as a result of this.

listermint

Igotadose wrote: »

Amazon claimed they'd be creating a large number of high paying jobs, and modernizing a run-down former manufacturing (former being the operative word here) of Long Island City. Amazon has its low-paying fulfillment centers elsewhere (Staten Island comes to mind.) State-level tax breaks are always used in the US to entice business. Infrastructure improvements are another. Consider that Apple data center that ended up not happening in Athenry. Who is better off as a result? The folks up that area that now don't have new jobs coming? Same thing for LI City and Amazon. No other company will go there now.

And, it's not like the locals have the same degree of social safety net that the good folk of Athenry have. No dole, no free medical care, school susbsidies, nothing. No job, no pay, no food, no housing is the way of things in the US.

NY's worst neighborhoods are beyond imagining here. Constant high crime, gun violence, extreme poverty. LI City would've welcomed the improvements Amazon would have brought there, but now, Amazon'll look elsewhere. This is the way of things and, yeah, other districts will roll out the red carpet. The area in question will be worse off as a result of this.

Amazon wouldn't be modernizing anything new York as paying for it .not Amazon.

And queens is hardly run down considering the development that's already taking place there....

That data center is not even a close comparison

rossie1977

The argument that LIC is a crime ridden slum is not correct. I stayed there last time I visited NYC in 2014 and it was really starting to thrive then and has only grown more since then https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/realestate/long-island-city-fast-growing-with-great-views.html

It's in a perfect location just a hop across the river to Manhattan so the claim that all business will now avoid it couldn't be further from the truth as it will become some of the most prime available real estate on the planet over the coming 10-20 years.

Manic Moran wrote: »

The problem is that the reality is that the choice is not 'no tax breaks or tax breaks', it's 'tax breaks, or the jobs go somewhere else.' Well, the jobs went somewhere else. NYC is not going to fall apart as a result, no. But it's not going to get a single extra penny in disposable money, and no new jobs will be created either.

So basically mob rules...

Misrepresented on the right?! Even Democrats are lashing out at the torpedoing of the deal, to include the Mayor and Governor. The panels are slating it not only on Fox, but on NBC and CBS. The polling in NYC was heavily in favour of the deal, even though the respondents were aware of the downsides. Has Ireland paid more than it benefited from its tax incentives to bring big businesses into the country? That -some- places lose out does not mean that they all must.

Of course they are. Most Democrats are still corporatist at heart. I suspect many NY politicans both Rep and Dem stood to gain financially were Amazon to get their HQ.

Find me any poll which shows a majority of NYC folks to be against the Amazon deal. In the national scale, yes, Trump is way behind and has an almost impossible mountain to climb. Democrats need to stop giving him legs up and boosts to make it a closer playing field. They, again, are failing to see the types of candidates and policies which won the house seats away from Republicans last election, and are going back to the hammering for policies which did not. It's the Democrats' election to lose. They're going to look like right idiots if they somehow manage to lose it again.

Impossible mountain to climb? Only two elected presidents since the great depression have failed to gain a second term so history is on Trump's side. Also the fact the media are obsessed with everything Trump will make it extremely difficult for any Democrat to get their message out.

Trump has a way of easily manipulating folks too. He was able to get the female Dems to cheer him at the SOTU at one point last week..he only needs one out of Pennsylvania, Michigan or Wisconsin and he wins in 2020.

Ultros

Remember a while back there was a story that two Trump supporters in Chicago attacked actor Jussie Smollet and yelled "This is Maga country" and put a rope around his neck? Things aren't really adding up, the two people of interest identified turned out to be two Nigerian black men who know Smollett and have appeared on his show.

https://twitter.com/ABC7Chicago/status/1096787521667821568

He's also hired Michael Cohen's defense attorney...

everlast75

Ultros wrote: »

Remember a while back there was a story that two Trump supporters in Chicago attacked actor Jussie Smollet and yelled "This is Maga country" and put a rope around his neck? Things aren't really adding up, the two people of interest identified turned out to be two African American brothers one of which appeared on Smollet's show.

https://twitter.com/ABC7Chicago/status/1096787521667821568

He's also hired Michael Cohen's defense attorney...

I wouldn't believe any news reports that contradict his story.

Sure isn't the media the enemy of the people!?

Ultros

everlast75 wrote: »

I wouldn't believe any news reports that contradict his story.

Sure isn't the media the enemy of the people!?

Ignoring police statements now are we?

"CHICAGO -- Chicago police said Friday night two persons of interest in the alleged attack on "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett are being released without charges.

The men have been confirmed to be the men seen on surveillance images of the scene of the alleged incident. Chicago Police tell ABC News the reason the men were on the scene is now central to the investigation. Whether the men spoke to Smollett the night of the alleged attack is also central to the investigation, CPD representatives said.

"Yes, they are confirmed to be the men on scene by surveillance video," Chicago Police said. "The reason why they were there is now central to the investigation and we can't get into that at this time."

A CPD spokesperson said they could not go into what new information they gleaned from the two men, it "shifted the trajectory" of the investigation."

For Forks Sake

Pence addressing a conference in Germany:
"I bring greetings from the 45th president of the United States of America, President Donald Trump."

*crickets*

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1096783318799056897

The US is going to be a long, long time trying to undo the damage done by this administration

listermint

Ha ha ha

looksee

That really wasn't subtle!

You should have waited for them to applaud

I did wait

Not long enough...

Midlife

Ultros wrote: »

Ignoring police statements now are we?

"CHICAGO -- Chicago police said Friday night two persons of interest in the alleged attack on "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett are being released without charges.

The men have been confirmed to be the men seen on surveillance images of the scene of the alleged incident. Chicago Police tell ABC News the reason the men were on the scene is now central to the investigation. Whether the men spoke to Smollett the night of the alleged attack is also central to the investigation, CPD representatives said.

"Yes, they are confirmed to be the men on scene by surveillance video," Chicago Police said. "The reason why they were there is now central to the investigation and we can't get into that at this time."

A CPD spokesperson said they could not go into what new information they gleaned from the two men, it "shifted the trajectory" of the investigation."

It's odd.

You seem to be on a one man cursade to point out hipocrasy and factually inaccurate statements.

But you're happily ignoring so much of it.

Do you just hate 'liberals'

Ultros

Midlife wrote: »

.

Do you just hate 'liberals'

I hate liberals because I don't go along with the normal Trump bashing that 99% of other folks do here? What kind of statement is that.

Booker, Harris, Warren and other Democrats called it a "modern day lynching" making out that in modern day America this is the type of thing African Americans are faced with where maga hat wearing Trump supporters will show up with rope and assault you. If it turns out to be a hoax you don't think that would be a pretty big story? The Covington kids hoax was pretty bad but this would be on another level.

ABC news are pretty much calling it a hoax with this headline so don't shoot the messenger.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1096851116866834435

Rjd2

listermint wrote: »

When did I talk about who supported Amazon into new york I didn't and I haven't.

I'm taking about corporate tax breaks .

The Amazon deal was a joke anyway. New York building their entire factory and giving them 3 billion in tax breaks. Crazy stuff

This is more in a litany of stuff that as American the way it is today .

Corporate welfare is a scourge. It should be one of the few things that unite right and left in disgust tbh.

Sweetemotion

listermint wrote: »

Amazon wouldn't be modernizing anything new York as paying for it .not Amazon.

And queens is hardly run down considering the development that's already taking place there....

That data center is not even a close comparison

Now lets take that 3 billion dollars in tax credits, we were going to give to Amazon. Back to the people of NEW York so we can hire more teachers, more firemen, upgrade the subway and create jobs for those who need them most.



Oh Wait. :pac:

Midlife

Ultros wrote: »

I hate liberals because I don't go along with the normal Trump bashing that 99% of other folks do here? What kind of statement is that.

It wasn't a statement, it was a question.

It seems odd that you're so righteous in your passion for truth and honesty but you're only interested in holding the falsehoods of the msm and any non-right wing opinion to account.

Do you give everyone else a free pass?

Why don't you comment about the many lies Trump says every time he speaks?

There's tonnes of bullsh1t on each side these days. I'm just wondering what your motivation is.

qwerty ui op

It's expected that what Trump refers to as "fake news media" will attack AOC and the other more progressive new members she came in with.
Fox can't harm them much as they'd be viewed as propagandists by their would be voters.

All those working in these main TV news outlets seem like lovely fine decent folk, but when it comes actually informing the US public about whats going on in the country their completely useless. Not for the reasons Trump says, but by saying "fake news" he has helped stifle real debate about how useless they are.

For example.
Call it what you want; legal bribery/corporate PAC money/special interest donations, this has to be the story of the decade within the US. Where the hell have they been in informing the american people about this?
When a hurricane is approaching or on election day/night, they come with all the graphics and all the energy and really do a great job informing the US public as to whats happening. How come they don't bring that same level of commitment to this even bigger issue.

From the POV of the Mercers, Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson etc. Trump is a win win, being in office, he has not only managed to protect their money he has gotten them even more. If he gets booted out, I reckon it'll suit them for Trump, his family and close associates to go down hard.
This will bring, not all, but many in the anti-Trump crowd out onto streets waving flags and singing songs, it'll be like Obama in 08. Good will have won out over evil. This will help put any trouble makers back to sleep.

Yet, when it come to the real issues....
-Guns
-Healthcare
-Gerrymandering
-Opioids
-3rd level fees
-Incarceration rate
(add or take as you see fit)
not a thing will have changed

FrostyJack

Manic Moran wrote: »

Misrepresented on the right?! Even Democrats are lashing out at the torpedoing of the deal, to include the Mayor and Governor. The panels are slating it not only on Fox, but on NBC and CBS. The polling in NYC was heavily in favour of the deal, even though the respondents were aware of the downsides. Has Ireland paid more than it benefited from its tax incentives to bring big businesses into the country? That -some- places lose out does not mean that they all must.

As in the link I posted, the politicians all want to be seen to get the jobs in there or have their pockets lined, so they are all going to be for the deal, as the optics look great, it is only when you delve down into the details and see what the result will be, as we have seen it in many states with other companies what the net result is. The Ireland comparison is like apples and oranges, as these companies would not be here if it wasn't for the tax breaks and the standard of the workforce. As someone who works for a multinational I know the income tax raised and the money that gets pumped into the local economy when they arrive but they are not blackmailing the local areas to facilitate them. Amazon are developing a large footprint here, like at the former Jacobs plant in Tallaght, I doubt it will have the same negative impact on the locals as the one in NY would have.

As for the Mayor being angry at the deal, I think you misread which side he was angry at, the same goes for a lot of people disappointed the deal did not go through.
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/new-york-city-mayor-bill-de-blasio-reacts-to-amazon-ending-deal-to-build-queens-headquarters-1442956867934

Brian?

Why is AOC getting any blame here? Amazon decided to pull out, citing lack of community support. Sounds like BS to me, they got a better deal elsewhere. Why are any Dem politicians being blamed for the actions of Amazon?

listermint

Brian? wrote: »

Why is AOC getting any blame here? Amazon decided to pull out, citing lack of community support. Sounds like BS to me, they got a better deal elsewhere. Why are any Dem politicians being blamed for the actions of Amazon?

Because the websites he consumes are making that a thing. The same websites sticking in fake stuff into the green deal and spreading it

Midlife

qwerty ui op wrote: »

It's expected that what Trump refers to as "fake news media" will attack AOC and the other more progressive new members she came in with.
Fox can't harm them much as they'd be viewed as propagandists by their would be voters.

All those working in these main TV news outlets seem like lovely fine decent folk, but when it comes actually informing the US public about whats going on in the country their completely useless. Not for the reasons Trump says, but by saying "fake news" he has helped stifle real debate about how useless they are.

For example.
Call it what you want; legal bribery/corporate PAC money/special interest donations, this has to be the story of the decade within the US. Where the hell have they been in informing the american people about this?
When a hurricane is approaching or on election day/night, they come with all the graphics and all the energy and really do a great job informing the US public as to whats happening. How come they don't bring that same level of commitment to this even bigger issue.

From the POV of the Mercers, Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson etc. Trump is a win win, being in office, he has not only managed to protect their money he has gotten them even more. If he gets booted out, I reckon it'll suit them for Trump, his family and close associates to go down hard.
This will bring, not all, but many in the anti-Trump crowd out onto streets waving flags and singing songs, it'll be like Obama in 08. Good will have won out over evil. This will help put any trouble makers back to sleep.

Yet, when it come to the real issues....
-Guns
-Healthcare
-Gerrymandering
-Opioids
-3rd level fees
-Incarceration rate
(add or take as you see fit)
not a thing will have changed

Great point.

People think it's all about bearting Trump in 2020 but unless the democrats are going to address the key issues, it doesn't really matter.

Trump sets things like gender equality and race relations back a bit but that aside, your standard centre-right democrat won't do a whole lot more for people.

Franz Von Peppercorn

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Yet, when it come to the real issues....
-Guns
-Healthcare
-Gerrymandering
-Opioids
-3rd level fees
-Incarceration rate
(add or take as you see fit)
not a thing will have changed

Or for those of us not in the US
Yemen
Russophobia
Libya
Drones
Syria
Afghanistan

And so on.

listermint

Midlife wrote: »

Great point.

People think it's all about bearting Trump in 2020 but unless the democrats are going to address the key issues, it doesn't really matter.

Trump sets things like gender equality and race relations back a bit but that aside, your standard centre-right democrat won't do a whole lot more for people.

That's all nonsense. AOC deal addresses all those issues. To pretend dems are only interested in beating trump is fox news propaganda, simply untrue

Franz Von Peppercorn

AOC can’t run for President so I’m not sure what the fuss re the green deal is about. She’s not a leader of the democrats either. Is this deal democratic policy?

(Not complaining about costs etc just wondering why it’s so famous).

Midlife

listermint wrote: »

That's all nonsense. AOC deal addresses all those issues. To pretend dems are only interested in beating trump is fox news propaganda, simply untrue

No, you actually agree with me. You just read it wrong.

AOC is not your standard centre-right democrat, neither is Bernie or Warren.

They'd all make a massive difference.

What does AOC stand for? I mean the actual letters.

listermint

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

AOC can’t run for President so I’m not sure what the fuss re the green deal is about. She’s not a leader of the democrats either. Is this deal democratic policy?

(Not complaining about costs etc just wondering why it’s so famous).

Ok. Give me an idea of how you came to the conclusion that I said she can ?

I even said Dems in my post. You have great form in reading stuff out of posts that you want to see.

Her deal has been endorsed by pretty much all the Dems presidential candidates hopefuls.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What does AOC stand for? I mean the actual letters.

Alexandria ocasia cortez

Franz Von Peppercorn

listermint wrote: »

Ok. Give me an idea of how you came to the conclusion that I said she can ?

I even said Dems in my post. You have great form in reading stuff out of posts that you want to see.

Her deal has been endorsed by pretty much all the Dems presidential candidates hopefuls.

Ironic because I wasn’t replying to you. I was asking the general thread. “Is this deal democratic policy.”

Your last sentence seems to be an answer.

(Remember most of us don’t live in the US).

listermint

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Ironic because I wasn’t replying to you. I was asking the general thread. “Is this deal democratic policy.”

Your last sentence seems to be an answer.

(Remember most of us don’t live in the US).

Oh you were replying to me.

Let's be clear. I posted something about an AOC policy and you immediately responded to that post saying she can't run for president.

Why are you lying about that. It's literally on the previous page. ????

Igotadose

Back to the endlessly entertaining Trump WH: Heather Nauert, the nominee for UN ambassador is withdrawing. Seems she had an immigrant working for her who wasn't eligible to work. Pesky immigration regulations, I would've thought open borders would have helped here? :P

I guess being a Foxbot and then a spokesdroid for one of the worst SecStates in history (Rex Tillerson) wasn't enough qualification for an actual serious job.

Actually, I think the US was lucky. Nauert was going to be run roughshod over at the UN. At least Nikki Haley had some skills when negotiating.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/16/politics/heather-nauert-withdraws-un-ambassador/index.html


The Trump admin, the best people. Amateur hour continues at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.

alchemist33

Day 2 of the national emergency. Where is the President? In an underground bunker in the Rockies? In the air in AF1 in case of apocalypse on the ground? Rallying the troops with a rousing speech?

No, he's having omelettes before going out on the golf course at his holiday home.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/02/trump-takes-refuge-from-his-national-emergency-at-florida-golf-course/

Kinda gives the lie to the emergency