Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

seamus

The majority of people are expecting the collusion report to prove that the Trump campaign accepted support from Russian sources in the course of the campaign.

That's it really. In essence that the campaign, with Trump's knowledge, allowed the Russians to do things for the benefit of the campaign and with reckless disregard for the national security implications.

That's a bombshell in itself.

Nobody is expecting the report to reveal that he's a double-agent codenamed Dmitry Trotski and has a hammer and sickle tattoo on his backside.

duploelabs

Ultros wrote: »

Well you could go the other way with the latest McCabe admissions or the texts between Strozk and Page etc to expand a certain perspective on how Trump was treated, two sides to every coin.

I hope we find out soon as it's been dragging on for years now so it will be nice to finally get some closure when we do eventually see the main findings. Let's wait and see

Two simple questions Ultros...

Do you think the Mueller investigation is politically motivated?
And do you think the Trump team, and therefore trump himself, is innocent of conspiracy?

RIGOLO

Leroy42 wrote: »

So you don't know, haven't bothered to try to find out but want to be taken seriously that you somehow 'know'?

And there isn't two sides. It is either illegal or not. Your, or mine, viewpoint is irrelevant. So when you say you haven't read anything for either side what do you mean? On one side their is evidence, and indictments, and plea deals, and history, and lies from Trump and cover ups. And the other has Trump calling it all fake news. Are you suggesting that we should treat both as equals?

Tower Meeting is only open to interpretation if you haven't bothered to understand it. Its the same way as saying it open to interpretation why the stranger is in your house. Sure they might simply be lost but would you not even want to ask the question?

Stone has been indicted, so the US doesn't seem to agree with you that it simply garbage.

Trump campaign went along with it. So even you accept that there is the distinct possibility that something went on, yet you haven't even bothered to try to educate yourself past the headlines.

There is nothing wrong with perspective, at the end of the day we are all just giving opinions. But there is plenty of stuff to read out there to expand your perspective. Go and read Proof of Collusion, you can get it in the library. If you can read that and simply dismiss it all as totally unconnected and a 'witch-hunt- then fair enough.

Its been over 2 years, and Mueller still hasnt come up with anything illegal done by Trump.

At this stage Mueller and the DOJ in terms of investigating this are operating under the old KGB motto... bring me the man and I will find you the crime.

Ultros

seamus wrote: »

Nobody is expecting the report to reveal that he's a double-agent codenamed Dmitry Trotski and has a hammer and sickle tattoo on his backside.

So prey tell, how would the Trump campaign have stopped Wikileaks from dumping emails online, should they just have ignored them even though the media were reporting on them?

The crux of what the main accusation is, is that there was a conspiracy and/or coordination between both parties to hack the DNC and publish the emails.

Leroy42

Ultros wrote: »

Well you could go the other way with the latest McCabe admissions or the texts between Strozk and Page etc to expand a certain perspective on how Trump was treated, two sides to every coin.

I hope we find out soon as it's been dragging on for years now so it will be nice to finally get some closure when we do eventually see the main findings. Let's wait and see

It is not two sides of a coin. If McCabe etc went out to target Trump, does that give Trump free rein to collude with Russia? Are you trying to suggest that apart from Page etc nobody has ever had political views within the FBI?

Ultros wrote: »

As for this, what do you know that the house and Senate don't? You should call them up and offer your perspective!

I don't know anything they don't, I certainly hope they now far more than me. I don't know what happened, but what I do know is that even from the publicly available information Trump has serious questions to answer, questions he has done everything to avoid answering.

DrumSteve

RIGOLO wrote: »

Its been over 2 years, and Mueller still hasnt come up with anything illegal done by Trump.

At this stage Mueller and the DOJ in terms of investigating this are operating under the old KGB motto... bring me the man and I will find you the crime.

How do you know any of this?

Do you have access to the report?

I mean I can list off the amount all the guilty pleas already plead, but genuine question. How do you specifically know this?

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

Its been over 2 years, and Mueller still hasnt come up with anything illegal done by Trump.

At this stage Mueller and the DOJ in terms of investigating this are operating under the old KGB motto... bring me the man and I will find you the crime.

So what should be the time limit on federal investigations? Does that count for everybody or just the people you like?

How long did they investigate Clinton for? Bill and then Hillary? Should terrorists be set free if charges aren't brought within this time frame?

Penn

RIGOLO wrote: »

Its been over 2 years, and Mueller still hasnt come up with anything illegal done by Trump.

Letter of appointment of Special Counsel wrote:

The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI
Director James 8. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).
(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

Mueller isn't investigating Trump. Mueller is investigating links/co-ordination between the Russian government and individuals in Trump's campaign. In that regard, Mueller has found plenty.

Leroy42

Ultros wrote: »

So prey tell, how would the Trump campaign have stopped Wikileaks from dumping emails online, should they just have ignored them even though the media were reporting on them?

The crux of what the main accusation is, is that there was a conspiracy and/or coordination between both parties to hack the DNC and publish the emails.

It is not that Trump campaign dumped the e-mails, it is that they worked closely with Wikileaks to ensure the e-mails were released when it best suited Trump, and in a way that best suited him.

But even apart from that, if the Trump campaign was aware that a foreign entity had gotten access to the e-mails and failed to inform the FBI that is an offence. They allowed the illegal activity to continue an it appears even helped it.

Eric Cartman

Leroy42 wrote: »

So what should be the time limit on federal investigations? Does that count for everybody or just the people you like?

How long did they investigate Clinton for? Bill and then Hillary? Should terrorists be set free if charges aren't brought within this time frame?

so taking this investigation and the clinton investigation together , the clinton investigation brought no charges and thats what everyone settled on, if this one brings no charges will everyone settle on it ?

Everyone not radically anti trump has pointed out misgivings in the clinton investigation and it has been held up many times in this thread as 'the result was the result'

If mueller concludes nothing happened , will that be accepted with the same attitude or are we convinced that the whole system is only broken when its the guy you dont like in the spotlight ?

Ultros

duploelabs wrote: »

Two simple questions Ultros...

Do you think the Mueller investigation is politically motivated?

No, it was Trump's fault for firing Comey. I think events leading up it and during 2016 between Trump / Clinton in FBI circles whilst maybe not purely political, were certainty biased and not conducted properly, IG Horroritz admitted as such during his report hearing.

And do you think the Trump team, and therefore trump himself, is innocent of conspiracy?

Innocent of conspiracy with Russian intelligence to hack the DNC / Podesta and strategically publish the emails online, yes.

Ultros

Leroy42 wrote: »

But even apart from that, if the Trump campaign was aware that a foreign entity had gotten access to the e-mails and failed to inform the FBI that is an offence. They allowed the illegal activity to continue an it appears even helped it.

If doesn't really matter, that's speculation. CNN botched a report that Don JR had early access to the emails but that was misinformation.

Julian Assange's said on an interview with CNN many months in advance of Podesta's emails being dumped they had more things to publish. July 2016, around or before the Republican national convention.

Subcomandante Marcos

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so taking this investigation and the clinton investigation together , the clinton investigation brought no charges and thats what everyone settled on, if this one brings no charges will everyone settle on it ?

Everyone not radically anti trump has pointed out misgivings in the clinton investigation and it has been held up many times in this thread as 'the result was the result'

If mueller concludes nothing happened , will that be accepted with the same attitude or are we convinced that the whole system is only broken when its the guy you dont like in the spotlight ?

But umpteen people have already been forced to accept plea deals and some are looking at the rest of their natural life in prison.

So your what ifs make no sense.

Leroy42

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so taking this investigation and the clinton investigation together , the clinton investigation brought no charges and thats what everyone settled on, if this one brings no charges will everyone settle on it ?

Everyone not radically anti trump has pointed out misgivings in the clinton investigation and it has been held up many times in this thread as 'the result was the result'

If mueller concludes nothing happened , will that be accepted with the same attitude or are we convinced that the whole system is only broken when its the guy you dont like in the spotlight ?

It certainly will be a tough one. Obviously the simple answer is that, like Trumps election, people will have to accept it. But like HC, it won't stop many from continuing to state otherwise.

As for myself, I will admit that should Mueller come out with nothing I will find it very hard to believe that something dodgy wasn't done. This is due to the massive amount of abuse that Trump has leveled at the investigation and the moves he has made to remove Sessions etc.

On top of that we still have Flynn, Manafort, Stone, Padadopolous already charged and I don't think they simply acted alone. But if they did, that raises a further question. How can Trump now be sure that there aren't even more of their type within the administration now? What has he done to protect himself, and the country, for the very clear danger these men posed?

And I have seen nothnig to suggest that Trump has done anything. So Mueller's report, whilst it may be the end for this stage (I doubt it though) will probably raise more questions that answers.

What is the US going to do to avoid the likes of Manafort etc getting in those positions again? What processes will be put in place to catch them before an election rather than after?

RIGOLO

Leroy42 wrote: »

So what should be the time limit on federal investigations? Does that count for everybody or just the people you like?

How long did they investigate Clinton for? Bill and then Hillary? Should terrorists be set free if charges aren't brought within this time frame?

That depends on whether its an investigation or a withchunt. At this stage the blowback has destroyed so many Democrat insiders in the DOJ, Id say they are praying for it to wind up.

I suppose that is one of the differences with all the GOP led investigations in years gone by, they rarely resulted in GOP careers being cut abruptly short and getting caught in the cross fire that was intended for the other side.
In recent years the GOP has rarely had a landmine it laid for the DNC blow up in its face. They learnt their lesson on 2600 Virgnia Avenue.


But by all means keep investigating, I hope the left does.

It keeps DT front and centre in the main stream media searchlight, sucks up all the airtime , puts Trump in the cross hairs 24x7 etc etc, and we all know how that worked out the last time... roll on 2020

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

That depends on whether its an investigation or a withchunt. At this stage the blowback has destroyed so many Democrat insiders in the DOJ, Id say they are praying for it to wind up.

I suppose that is one of the differences with all the GOP led investigations in years gone by, they rarely resulted in GOP careers being cut abruptly short and getting caught in the cross fire that was intended for the other side.
In recent years the GOP has rarely had a landmine it laid for the DNC blow up in its face. They learnt their lesson on 2600 Virgnia Avenue.


But by all means keep investigating, I hope the left does.

It keeps DT front and centre in the main stream media searchlight, sucks up all the airtime , puts Trump in the cross hairs 24x7 etc etc, and we all know how that worked out the last time... roll on 2020

So you don't actually have an answer to question I asked.

So you're position that the investigation has gone on long enough is based on what exactly?

Eric Cartman

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

But umpteen people have already been forced to accept plea deals and some are looking at the rest of their natural life in prison.

So your what ifs make no sense.

it does make sense. There are many on here who wifully accepted the result of the hillary investigation and have declared her innocent of any wrongdoing. Many of those people believe that mueller has evidence that will directly put away donald trump or trump jr. The question im asking is , if this investigation concludes that there is nothing to put them away over, will the same level of belief of innocence be afforded to trump and trump jr by the posters who believe the hillary investigation ended with the correct conclusion.

duploelabs

Ultros wrote: »

If doesn't really matter, that's speculation. CNN botched a report that Don JR had early access to the emails but that was misinformation.

Julian Assange's said on an interview with CNN many months in advance of Podesta's emails being dumped they had more things to publish. July 2016, around or before the Republican national convention.

Why do you trust the words of a thief?

It may be just information, but Assange is a thief nonetheless

Ultros

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is the US going to do to avoid the likes of Manafort etc getting in those positions again? What processes will be put in place to catch them before an election rather than after?

If you scoured around Washington DC and looked at each individual foreign lobbyist what percentage of them do you think could be indicted on corruption charges. I'd wager it would be a pretty significant number.

It's important to remember not one American has been charged with the collusion mantle, they're all process crimes or from things they did in the past like money laundering. Admittingly, the final report will shed some light on whether people gave false statements trying to protect Trump.

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

Its been over 2 years, and Mueller still hasnt come up with anything illegal done by Trump.

Remind me, how long Ken Star's investigation went on for?

Ultros

duploelabs wrote: »

Why do you trust the words of a thief?

It may be just information, but Assange is a thief nonetheless

I was making the point that additional hacked emails for future dumps online was public knowledge as early as July of 2016. Someone else made the point the Trump campaign might have secretly known about them and not informed the FBI, but they would have to have known long before Trump won the nomination.

everlast75

duploelabs wrote: »

Why do you trust the words of a thief?

It may be just information, but Assange is a thief nonetheless

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cia-director-pompeo-calls-wikileaks-hostile-intelligence-service-n746311

rossie1977

If Obama's AG started a special investigation into Hillary and his own affairs and neither Obama or Clinton ever appeared in public to answer a single question how would Republicans and right wing media view it?

Large % of those on the right still think Clinton is guilty even though a partisan republican congress grilled her in public for 2 years in an attempt to take her down and found nothing

DrumSteve

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it does make sense. There are many on here who wifully accepted the result of the hillary investigation and have declared her innocent of any wrongdoing. Many of those people believe that mueller has evidence that will directly put away donald trump or trump jr. The question im asking is , if this investigation concludes that there is nothing to put them away over, will the same level of belief of innocence be afforded to trump and trump jr by the posters who believe the hillary investigation ended with the correct conclusion.

But he is putting people away... Cohen's going to jail, so is manafort to name but two.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so taking this investigation and the clinton investigation together , the clinton investigation brought no charges and thats what everyone settled on, if this one brings no charges will everyone settle on it ?

Everyone not radically anti trump has pointed out misgivings in the clinton investigation and it has been held up many times in this thread as 'the result was the result'

If mueller concludes nothing happened , will that be accepted with the same attitude or are we convinced that the whole system is only broken when its the guy you dont like in the spotlight ?

Have you finished teaching yourself about the nuclear?

Ultros

everlast75 wrote: »

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cia-director-pompeo-calls-wikileaks-hostile-intelligence-service-n746311

Pompeo didn't seem so upset during the election, he's throwing stones in a glass house. I agree they are hostile to US intelligence though.

RIGOLO

Great day for all the geeks , especially space geeks.

Directive SPD-4 - Trump has ordered the Pentagon to establish a 6th branch of the military.

https://www.space.com/president-trump-space-force-directive.html

Im delighted , makes the Space Force coin in my desk from The WhiteHouse gift shop even more special.

I cant wait to see how the vote in Congress goes. The Dems will have to support this or risk the wrath of anyone who owns a lightsaber.

mcmoustache

DrumSteve wrote: »

But he is putting people away... Cohen's going to jail, so is manafort to name but two.

If you close your eyes you can pretend that there's nothing there.

This is why you see dumb points like "Mueller hasn't found anything in two years" and so on.

If you close your eyes and pretend that there were no indictments or that Individual 1 was never named in the indictments or that a heap of people close to Trump aren't going to jail, then sure, you could pretend that there's nothing there.

But that would be silly.

Ultros

rossie1977 wrote: »

Large % of those on the right still think Clinton is guilty

What would ever give them that idea?

Comey's press conference was unprecedented in FBI history
AG Lynch meeting B Clinton in a private plane days before ruling
FBI interview wasn't recorded with her lawyers present who were granted immunity even after destroying evidence
Correspondences like the one below with the people "leading" the investigation



Yep, those right wingers are pure idiots. IG Horrowitz hearing confirmed peoples suspicions as to what went on during that time, both with Clinton and Trump investigations.

Leroy42

I suppose another question would be if Mueller comes out with serious questions for Trump will the likes of Eric and Rigolo change their view on Trump?