Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

everlast75

VonZan wrote: »

I don't think anyone bar Donald Trump considers himself to be a successful business man. His father was a successful man. Trump like everyone else invested in property has made a fortune from the inflation.

And lost it. Repeatedly.


And his supporters think he's a self made man. Watch how they cheer when he boasts at his rallies.

His financial prowess is about as legitimate as his hair.

Igotadose

Manic Moran wrote: »

That is, to put it mildly, a contested statement. People think that Trump came up with the idea of Space Force as a military branch on his own, but it's actually been talked about in professional circles for some two decades, with the real impetus coming in the last five or so years. Indeed, the last defense budget signed by Obama removed the word 'limited' in the policy section on operations in space, and the House passed a bill to mandate the creation of a Space Force in early 2017, several months before Trump made his much lampooned announcement in June.

The creation of Space Force is being viewed pretty similarly right now to the debate on the creation of the Air Force in the 1940s, with many of the same arguments being repeated about how there is no need for the independent arm. After all, the US Army won WW2 without a separate Air Force branch.

Much like the NASA, it'll cost enormous money for debatable benefits, especially in today's post-Space Shuttle era. The Space Shuttle being another program of very questionable value.

But, glad to know there's plenty of $$ in the US budget to pay for it. What the heck, better than paying farmers not to grow things.

hill16bhoy

The Mueller report will not be published next week.

One now wonders if this has been merely the latest in a long line of fake predictions from within the Trump regime that Mueller was wrapping up.

There has been an uncanny similarity between these erroneous predictions of an end to the investigation and the British press's predictions of UK Brexit negotiators making a breakthrough to their advantage.

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1099041752764289025?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1099041752764289025&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2Flive%2F2019%2Ffeb%2F22%2Fhouse-democrats-plan-to-block-trumps-declaration-of-emergency-live

Igotadose

Got to be doing something during all that executive time. Aha. Campaigning. Like the aide quoted said he's not good at running the country, but better at campaigning. https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/02/22/politics/trump-2020-democratic-primary/index.html?r=https://edition.cnn.com/

qwerty ui op

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think he's too left to get over the line, the low hanging fruit is just paint him as a communist and youve the rust belt gone,

being a jew is super easy pickings for other demographics , an effective campaign could seperate him from moderate working class people by painting him as a rich man who wants to grab more taxes.

How did you come to have such a low opinion of people?

Bernie raised 6 million in the the first 24hrs with an average donation of $27 per person,
- a commitment for another $600k in monthly donations
-close to 1 million people have signed up to his campaign
Washington establishment are in serious trouble here! as it looks like he has caught lightening in a bottle for the 2nd time round.

His 2016 run changed the political discourse in the US.Three year ago, his ideas were considered extreme and fringe are now they're considered mainstream. Yet, many of the MSM and establishment Dems, think he should step aside and let a new shiny, even more Bernie than Bernie person take over, as they've adopted his stance when they realized how popular they are. How stupid do they think people are? They haven't even given a single reason why would anyone do such a daft move.

He came out swinging this time round when he mentioned Howard Schultz in the CBS interview, and because he spoke the truth, that 30 second bit, did more damage to expose the MSM's establishment bias, than 2 year of Trump roaring "FAKE NEWS"

Christy42

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think he's too left to get over the line, the low hanging fruit is just paint him as a communist and youve the rust belt gone,

being a jew is super easy pickings for other demographics , an effective campaign could seperate him from moderate working class people by painting him as a rich man who wants to grab more taxes.

How did you come to have such a low opinion of people?

Bernie raised 6 million in the the first 24hrs with an average donation of $27 per person,
- a commitment for another $600k in monthly donations
-close to 1 million people have signed up to his campaign
Washington establishment are in serious trouble here! as it looks like he has caught lightening in a bottle for the 2nd time round.

His 2016 run changed the political discourse in the US.Three year ago, his ideas were considered extreme and fringe are now they're considered mainstream. Yet, many of the MSM and establishment Dems, think he should step aside and let a new shiny, even more Bernie than Bernie person take over, as they've adopted his stance when they realized how popular they are. How stupid do they think people are? They haven't even given a single reason why would anyone do such a daft move.

He came out swinging this time round when he mentioned Howard Schultz in the CBS interview, and because he spoke the truth, that 30 second bit, did more damage to expose the MSM's establishment bias, than 2 year of Trump roaring "FAKE NEWS"

It nearly seems like he just a more realistic understanding of American voters. Bernie is rather central by European standards so I would expect Trump to call him a communist and linking him to Venezuela while ignoring that Bernie's policies would bring them closer to Norway.

Anti semitism is still a thing.

I have no doubt that he will get plenty of support. The issue is getting enough. Especially when Trump starts smearing him and the press keeps reporting the lies. Every candidate will have this issue, it is just more obvious where Sander's will come from.

See the last few years for my opinion of people. 30%+ people in the US still support Trump.

Igotadose

New U.N. nominee announced,.ambassador to Canada and big GOP donor Kelly Craft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Knight_Craft

looksee

RIGOLO wrote: »

SPACE FORCE is a branch of the military

Has anyone explained yet why a military force is needed in space?
Other than possibly building walls on the moon.

Midlife

Let's change tack for a moment and not take it all so seriously.

What's your outstanding moment of this Trump presidency?

I find it hard to choose between when...

a: He was laughed at by the assembled UN for saying 'this admministration has done more than any other in history'

or

b: The but when he was caught pleading with the Mexican president to pay for the wall telling him about how he needed him to do it

Maybe you have your own comedy gold moment.

hill16bhoy

Igotadose wrote: »

New U.N. nominee announced,.ambassador to Canada and big GOP donor Kelly Craft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Knight_Craft

Given tonight's news I'm genuinely surprised he hasn't announced Robert Kraft.

Manic Moran

looksee wrote: »

Has anyone explained yet why a military force is needed in space?
Other than possibly building walls on the moon.

Put bluntly, it's because it's a critical part of warfighting capability. Arguably, the US is so dependent upon space-based systems that if it lost the ability to operate in that domain, there are serious questions about how capable it could be before it reverted back to knowledge of how to operate in degraded operations. Even the bombs these days are guided by GPS and humble HMMWVs use satellite communications, and the reconnaissance ability of satellites is not to be sneezed at either. Further, even whilst the US is becoming more reliant on the space domain, potential adversaries are starting to move into it in numbers. The Chinese, for example, have almost 300 satellites up there. How many of them do you suppose are for military purposes?

So, the question isn't 'do we need a space force', the question is really 'do we need a space force yet?' And we're about at that tipping point.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/why-we-need-space-force

SKILFUL

The Democrats have a really good chance against Trump2020

Manic Moran

Midlife wrote: »

Maybe you have your own comedy gold moment.

I don't know about comedy gold, but I find it extremely difficult to even conjecture anything more cringeworthy than lobbing rolls of kitchen paper at folks after a hurricane strike. Then again, he's got some two years left, maybe he or his advisors will manage to surprise me.

Eric Cartman

Midlife wrote: »

Let's change tack for a moment and not take it all so seriously.

What's your outstanding moment of this Trump presidency?

I find it hard to choose between when...

a: He was laughed at by the assembled UN for saying 'this admministration has done more than any other in history'

or

b: The but when he was caught pleading with the Mexican president to pay for the wall telling him about how he needed him to do it

Maybe you have your own comedy gold moment.

Can I ask when B was and do you have a source for that,

Jamiekelly

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Can I ask when B was and do you have a source for that,

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-mexican-president-stop-pay-wall/story?id=49009884

Took me less than 5 seconds on Google.

Ardillaun

Mueller is just the beginning of the legal challenges faced by Mr. Trump, a career con-man who could have gotten away with it if he’d laid low. Now he’s going to spend the rest of his life with the lawyers.

jochenstacker

Ardillaun wrote: »

Mueller is just the beginning of the legal challenges faced by Mr. Trump, a career con-man who could have gotten away with it if he’d laid low. Now he’s going to spend the rest of his life with the lawyers.

Trump is a sad example of a type of human being that is nothing but a user.
He sees others as a means to an end, they are tools to be used and discarded.
To me it is a sad indictment of humanity as a whole that we actually fall for his bluster. He has nothing of value to add to humanity.
Anything that comes out of his administration is the result of the hard work and diligence of others. He just sits on his ample behind and makes proclamations.
If he ordered a cheeseburger, someone will take down that order. The chef makes it and someone brings it to him.
He would claim that cheeseburger as his own.
People like Trump are a festering boil on the bottom of humanity. But it's his Renfield like enablers that cause the real damage.

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

Put bluntly, it's because it's a critical part of warfighting capability. Arguably, the US is so dependent upon space-based systems that if it lost the ability to operate in that domain, there are serious questions about how capable it could be before it reverted back to knowledge of how to operate in degraded operations. Even the bombs these days are guided by GPS and humble HMMWVs use satellite communications, and the reconnaissance ability of satellites is not to be sneezed at either. Further, even whilst the US is becoming more reliant on the space domain, potential adversaries are starting to move into it in numbers. The Chinese, for example, have almost 300 satellites up there. How many of them do you suppose are for military purposes?

So, the question isn't 'do we need a space force', the question is really 'do we need a space force yet?' And we're about at that tipping point.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/why-we-need-space-force

Space force for a country that can't even provide basic health care for its citizens

I rather believe China has its head screwed on tighter than the US. For example the most existential threat to the US right now is climate change . It alone will destroy many us cities, homes and life's and cost trillions of dollars yet China spends 3 dollars to every 1 dollar he US does on renewable energies.

China is focused like a laser on this threat.

The US is reading comic books.

Igotadose

Manic Moran wrote: »

So, the question isn't 'do we need a space force', the question is really 'do we need a space force yet?' And we're about at that tipping point.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/why-we-need-space-force

I read the article you posted and the embedded 'space threat assessment 2018' document. You're military, are you confident that establishing a multi-billion $$ organization with 13,000 hires and consolidating the 60+ agencies that currently are strewn throughout the various parts of the military (Airforce, Army, ...), will improve our defense of satellites and ground stations from space? Or be yet another massive military bureaucracy? The problems the author of the article goes on about, are to this civilian, organizational and bureaucratic problems, something the US military is rife with - you remember the lack of appropriate armor on Humvees early on in Iraq?

I'm sorry, but billions solving bureaucratic problems are kind of unispiring. Calling what's envisioned a 'space force' is really disingenuous. It's 'central space-asset protection organization,' and the plan (like so many government plans), is 'throw lots of money at it and hope for some results.'

8-10

Midlife wrote: »

Let's change tack for a moment and not take it all so seriously.

What's your outstanding moment of this Trump presidency?

I find it hard to choose between when...

a: He was laughed at by the assembled UN for saying 'this admministration has done more than any other in history'

or

b: The but when he was caught pleading with the Mexican president to pay for the wall telling him about how he needed him to do it

Maybe you have your own comedy gold moment.

Asking a 7 year old if he still believes in Santa

On Christmas Eve

Midlife

8-10 wrote: »

Asking a 7 year old if he still believes in Santa

On Christmas Eve

Ha, yeah forgot about that.

Midlife

listermint wrote: »

Space force for a country that can't even provide basic health care for its citizens

I rather believe China has its head screwed on tighter than the US. For example the most existential threat to the US right now is climate change . It alone will destroy many us cities, homes and life's and cost trillions of dollars yet China spends 3 dollars to every 1 dollar he US does on renewable energies.

China is focused like a laser on this threat.

The US is reading comic books.

Add to that the 1 trillion promised infrastructure plan which was desgined to win over voters in rusting parts of America.

Provide jobs, develop local industry, improve infrastructure.

But you get vague 'Space Force' proclimations.

Can't believe people laud stuff like that.



Also it's laughable that NASA are calling for global warming and CO2 emissions to be addressed whereas the some voters basically get turned on by the vague idea of weaponising spacecraft.

Absolute clowns of the highest order.

LOOK... OVER HERE!!!!!

everlast75

https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/status/1098998483439239170?s=19

In case there's any pardon planned....

PropJoe10

This whole "Space Force" thing sounds like something invented by a 7-year-old kid that's just heard of the space program for the first time. Embarrassing.

As for the "highlight" of the last two years, I'd probably have to go with the Helsinki meeting, where he sided with Putin against his own intelligence agencies in front of the entire world's media. Proof, if ever we need it, that the oaf is in way over his head.

everlast75

PropJoe10 wrote: »

This whole "Space Force" thing sounds like something invented by a 7-year-old kid that's just heard of the space program for the first time. Embarrassing.

As for the "highlight" of the last two years, I'd probably have to go with the Helsinki meeting, where he sided with Putin against his own intelligence agencies in front of the entire world's media. Proof, if ever we need it, that the oaf is in way over his head.

I was going to choose that, but i think the OP wanted the most comedic moment and as much as I despise Trump, there was absolutely nothing funny seeing him debase himself in front of the world.

everlast75

Most comedic moment for me would have to be either was the launch of the coins celebrating "the nuclear deal" coupled with Trump's talk about " other people saying" he should get a nobel prize (of course they were) or the recent hamberders sh1tshow in the WH and how he was so so proud of himself.

PropJoe10

everlast75 wrote: »

Most comedic moment for me would have to be either was the launch of the coins celebrating "the nuclear deal" coupled with Trump's talk about " other people saying" he should get a nobel prize (of course they were) or the recent hamberders sh1tshow in the WH and how he was so so proud of himself.

Yeah, if we're going for comedy I'll go with the very first stupid moment - Spicer claiming the inauguration crowd was the biggest ever, despite the photos. That really set the tone, for me

duploelabs

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Yeah, if we're going for comedy I'll go with the very first stupid moment - Spicer claiming the inauguration crowd was the biggest ever, despite the photos. That really set the tone, for me

I liked him trying to explain what covfefe was, and the covfefe tweet itself

Gbear

There's a summary episode of the Fivethityeight podcast if you're struggling to keep track of all the investigations into Trump.

18 of them, I think they said.

I didn't quite catch which were civil cases vs criminal. Trump was sued in relation to control of the remaining assets of the Trump Foundation because he wasn't trusted to dispose of them legally, but his actions of using the funds of the foundations to pay for political expenses and legal costs are also being investigated in a criminal case, so sometimes it's both.

By the time this is over and done with it seems like his rap sheet is going to be comically long - fraud, tax evasion, money laundering, self-dealing, campaign finance, obstruction of justice, perjury if he has to speak under oath (because he can't help himself), and that's before we even mention conspiracy.

Manic Moran

Space force for a country that can't even provide basic health care for its citizens

I rather believe China has its head screwed on tighter than the US. For example the most existential threat to the US right now is climate change . It alone will destroy many us cities, homes and life's and cost trillions of dollars yet China spends 3 dollars to every 1 dollar he US does on renewable energies.

China is focused like a laser on this threat.

The US DoD has also identified it as a major threat. That doesn't mean to say that a government can't respond to more than one threat at a time. You don't see the Chinese military cutting back on their capability so that they can focus on climate change, do you? The President of Taiwan did not issue a warning over Chinese climate change expansion two days ago, it was military expansion
she was worried about.

Whether the US sorts out its healthcare problems or climate problems or whatever is an entirely unrelated issue to whether the military is capable of doing its job to the needs of the nation. It's certainly not a money issue, we spend lots of money on that sort of thing, and there is no way of telling if we might need the improved space capability before any changes to healthcare etc can be implemented. There is no 'sequence of priority', there is 'we need it or we don't.'

Igotadose wrote: »

I read the article you posted and the embedded 'space threat assessment 2018' document. You're military, are you confident that establishing a multi-billion $$ organization with 13,000 hires and consolidating the 60+ agencies that currently are strewn throughout the various parts of the military (Airforce, Army, ...), will improve our defense of satellites and ground stations from space? Or be yet another massive military bureaucracy? The problems the author of the article goes on about, are to this civilian, organizational and bureaucratic problems, something the US military is rife with - you remember the lack of appropriate armor on Humvees early on in Iraq?

I'm sorry, but billions solving bureaucratic problems are kind of unispiring. Calling what's envisioned a 'space force' is really disingenuous. It's 'central space-asset protection organization,' and the plan (like so many government plans), is 'throw lots of money at it and hope for some results.'

Yes, I remember the lack of armor on HMMWVs in Iraq, mine was one of them. It was because the military was geared for a conventional fight, not counter-insurgency. Nobody put forward the effort or money to think about a new type of fight which might be coming. Stuck in the cold war, one might even say. Still, they reacted quickly enough once someone decided to focus on the problem. Our steel-plate HMMWV was replaced by a purpose-built armored HMMWV in late 2004.

Well, space is a new type of fight which is coming and this time they're being proactive about it. There is a very good argument that the 60+ agencies strewn around which all have space-related activities are not capable of providing a unified command and response which is focused on that domain. What we have now is effectively a repeat of the fights after WW2 on whether or not the US needs a separate Marine Corps or a separate Air Force. In WW2 the US Army did more amphibious landings than the Marines, had more surface craft than the Navy, and there was no Air Force. The arguments against the separate branches are much as they are now, about inefficiency and bureacuracy, splitting of funding, etc. Yet the Marines were retained, and the Air Force created. Nobody today really questions whether these were poor decisions. We are, in terms of space development, somewhere about where the world's air forces were in the late 1920s, and things are only going to get more important over the coming years.

The question to be asked is not "will there be additional overheard for a new branch of service?" Of course there will be. Heck, I'm sure ridiculous millions will be spent just designing the new uniform. The question is "will this additional overhead result in a better capability in space, and could that better capability be the difference between winning and losing?" There is a good argument that, yes, it will.