Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

20Cent

Manic Moran wrote: »

The US DoD has also identified it as a major threat. That doesn't mean to say that a government can't respond to more than one threat at a time. You don't see the Chinese military cutting back on their capability so that they can focus on climate change, do you? The President of Taiwan did not issue a warning over Chinese climate change expansion two days ago, it was military expansion
she was worried about.

Whether the US sorts out its healthcare problems or climate problems or whatever is an entirely unrelated issue to whether the military is capable of doing its job to the needs of the nation. It's certainly not a money issue, we spend lots of money on that sort of thing, and there is no way of telling if we might need the improved space capability before any changes to healthcare etc can be implemented. There is no 'sequence of priority', there is 'we need it or we don't.'



Yes, I remember the lack of armor on HMMWVs in Iraq, mine was one of them. It was because the military was geared for a conventional fight, not counter-insurgency. Nobody put forward the effort or money to think about a new type of fight which might be coming. Stuck in the cold war, one might even say. Still, they reacted quickly enough once someone decided to focus on the problem. Our steel-plate HMMWV was replaced by a purpose-built armored HMMWV in late 2004.

Well, space is a new type of fight which is coming and this time they're being proactive about it. There is a very good argument that the 60+ agencies strewn around which all have space-related activities are not capable of providing a unified command and response which is focused on that domain. What we have now is effectively a repeat of the fights after WW2 on whether or not the US needs a separate Marine Corps or a separate Air Force. In WW2 the US Army did more amphibious landings than the Marines, had more surface craft than the Navy, and there was no Air Force. The arguments against the separate branches are much as they are now, about inefficiency and bureacuracy, splitting of funding, etc. Yet the Marines were retained, and the Air Force created. Nobody today really questions whether these were poor decisions. We are, in terms of space development, somewhere about where the world's air forces were in the late 1930s, and things are only going to get more important over the coming years.

The question to be asked is not "will there be additional overheard for a new branch of service?" Of course there will be. Heck, I'm sure ridiculous millions will be spent just designing the new uniform. The question is "will this additional overhead result in a better capability in space, and could that better capability be the difference between winning and losing?" There is a good argument that, yes, it will.

Who are ye afraid of?
Who is going to invade the US?

Manic Moran

20Cent wrote: »

Who are ye afraid of?
Who is going to invade the US?

The US has committed to the defense of a number of countries, like Taiwan or Poland. Who are Taiwan or Poland afraid of?

phater phagan

I imagine if Trump starts appropriating money from military projects to build his ridiculous wall it's going to cause much concern within the defence communities.

Manic Moran

phater phagan wrote: »

I imagine if Trump starts appropriating money from military projects to build his ridiculous wall it's going to cause much concern within the defence communities.

I don't believe he can. Appropriations are passed by Congress. There is a certain amount of money which congress has already appropriated into a funding pool which can be used to build a wall (amongst many other potential purposes), but he can't go and take F-35 money and divert it to wall construction, for example.

circadian

everlast75 wrote: »

Most comedic moment for me would have to be either was the launch of the coins celebrating "the nuclear deal" coupled with Trump's talk about " other people saying" he should get a nobel prize (of course they were) or the recent hamberders sh1tshow in the WH and how he was so so proud of himself.

Mine has to be "Gawd bless sha unitedsh shtates of shamerica"

WinnyThePoo

PropJoe10 wrote: »

everlast75 wrote: »

Most comedic moment for me would have to be either was the launch of the coins celebrating "the nuclear deal" coupled with Trump's talk about " other people saying" he should get a nobel prize (of course they were) or the recent hamberders sh1tshow in the WH and how he was so so proud of himself.

Yeah, if we're going for comedy I'll go with the very first stupid moment - Spicer claiming the inauguration crowd was the biggest ever, despite the photos. That really set the tone, for me

Adding to that. Ann Coulter saying 'alternative facts' really set the tone.

phater phagan

Trump, being the demagogue that he is, probably thinks he's above Congress, military appropriations protocol or any other logical restraints on project financing. The Senate Republicans have shown themselves to be gutless - and I hope that comes home to roost for them in 2020. It wouldn't surprise me if the flat-earth society people endorse him wholeheartedly.

prawnsambo

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Adding to that. Ann Coulter saying 'alternative facts' really set the tone.

I think that was Kelly Ann Conway.

UsedToWait

circadian wrote: »

Mine has to be "Gawd bless sha unitedsh shtates of shamerica"

I can't recall that.

I do remember him clearly not knowing, and badly miming to, the words of the Star Spangled Banner, after excoriating the (coincidentally black) football players for a lack of respect, in their dignified protest of going down on one knee during the same ditty.

Midlife

Trump doing some big time winning.

This time, it was the razzles

Worst actor: Donald Trump, Death of a Nation and Fahrenheit 11/9 as Himself

Worst screen combo: Donald Trump & his self-perpetuating pettiness, Death of a Nation and Fahrenheit 11/9

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

The US has committed to the defense of a number of countries, like Taiwan or Poland. Who are Taiwan or Poland afraid of?

No they aren't. Your president has huddled up to the main agressor in Poland in many many ways.

To pretend that arming the military is to defend others from threats is to avoid that it is a circular method to keep folks in jobs and insure lobbyists industries are getting their share of tax payers money.


The blind nonsense of some Nobel cause I suppose is an admirable construction to believe but simply not the reality.

PropJoe10

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Adding to that. Ann Coulter saying 'alternative facts' really set the tone.

She's recently referred to Trump as an "idiot" so it seems that he's even starting to break some of the extreme right-wingers.

Manic Moran

listermint wrote: »

No they aren't. Your president has huddled up to the main agressor in Poland in many many ways.

To pretend that arming the military is to defend others from threats is to avoid that it is a circular method to keep folks in jobs and insure lobbyists industries are getting their share of tax payers money.


The blind nonsense of some Nobel cause I suppose is an admirable construction to believe but simply not the reality.

I'm not quite sure I see what you are getting out.

Are you suggesting that Poland and Taiwan (to take those two examples, though you can pick others like the Baltic States) are not actually concerned about a military threat, or that those concerns are not valid? Or is there a third option I've missed?

oscarBravo

UsedToWait wrote: »

I can't recall that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-vKebt4U8

It was widely commented on at the time.

20Cent

oscarBravo wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-vKebt4U8

It was widely commented on at the time.

Think he has false teeth.
Imagine him in his real state with the teeth out, orange makeup off and the hair jaysus.

20Cent

Manic Moran wrote: »

The US has committed to the defense of a number of countries, like Taiwan or Poland. Who are Taiwan or Poland afraid of?

China and Russia I guess.
Would either mess with the US as it is now.
13 billion over the next five years when American citizens go without healthcare.
Mad.

MadYaker

20Cent wrote: »

Think he has false teeth.
Imagine him in his real state with the teeth out, orange makeup off and the hair jaysus.

Hahaha this just made me laugh out loud, he doesn't really have fake teeth does he? The slurring is odd who knows what it's caused by. Id bet my house that he's on a bunch of meds so it could be that. He doesn't drink apparently, hasn't for many years.

phater phagan

PropJoe10 wrote: »

She's recently referred to Trump as an "idiot" so it seems that he's even starting to break some of the extreme right-wingers.

You may be aware of this already, but do you know if you type "idiot" on google images pictures of Trump come up.

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm not quite sure I see what you are getting out.

Are you suggesting that Poland and Taiwan (to take those two examples, though you can pick others like the Baltic States) are not actually concerned about a military threat, or that those concerns are not valid? Or is there a third option I've missed?

Oh they are.

The US isn't.

Usual front .

It's nothing more than money games . More arms. More lobbying more cheerleading .

For Forks Sake

At this point I'm beginning to genuinely suspect that he's taken complete leave of his senses.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1099651121088466946?s=19

Midlife

For Forks Sake wrote: »

At this point I'm beginning to genuinely suspect that he's taken complete leave of his senses.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1099651121088466946?s=19

QUICK....LOOK OVER THERE!!!!


Heh, read an interesting article today about how he's basically been fired already by America and the wider world.

Voters went democratic house, world leaders more or less ignore or just placate him. Courts go about their business as they see fit. Even McConnell pretty much told him to end the shutdown.

Igotadose

Him calling himself your favorite president seems to acknowledge that he's largely held in contempt by America. Sarcasm is a common feature of his 'humor.' And the crassness of that tweet - like he's holding a dinner at Mar-a-Lago or something pedestrian, is really depressing. Trump's no longer interesting, the craziness has gotten old and he's just tedious (imo of course.)

20Cent

July 4th rings a bell isn't there celebrations on then anyway lol.

PropJoe10

Igotadose wrote: »

Him calling himself your favorite president seems to acknowledge that he's largely held in contempt by America. Sarcasm is a common feature of his 'humor.' And the crassness of that tweet - like he's holding a dinner at Mar-a-Lago or something pedestrian, is really depressing. Trump's no longer interesting, the craziness has gotten old and he's just tedious (imo of course.)

No, I think in this case he actually means "your favourite President" literally. He genuinely seems to think he's doing a far superior job to any former President. The delusions that seem to run through the entire administration are really remarkable.

pixelburp

He has regularly boasted about how no other president / admin has achieved as much as his (famously at the UN too IIRC, much to the laughter of the assembly). Everything is phrased in superlatives, all the time. I suspect he genuinely believe he's loved by all, his only exposure to reality is through Fox News, the sycophants in the WH and his asinine rallies.

He's the Echo Chamber President.

everlast75

pixelburp wrote: »

He has regularly boasted about how no other president / admin has achieved as much as his (famously at the UN too IIRC, much to the laughter of the assembly). Everything is phrased in superlatives, all the time. I suspect he genuinely believe he's loved by all, his only exposure to reality is through Fox News, the sycophants in the WH and his asinine rallies.

He's the Echo Chamber President.

I'm not so sure he believes it deep down.

He has declined to toss the first pitch in an upcoming baseball fixture.

Now eithet he isn't the physical specimen he and his doctor claim him to be, or else he knows the reaction he would get from the crowd.

My guess is a narcissist and that means avoiding shame at all costs. Rallies where they lap up his nonsense? Yes please. Exposure to those that don't swallow his BS. He would avoid that like the plague.

Midlife

Midlife wrote: »

Heh, read an interesting article today about how he's basically been fired already by America and the wider world.

Voters went democratic house, world leaders more or less ignore or just placate him. Courts go about their business as they see fit. Even McConnell pretty much told him to end the shutdown.

Wow, add to that US trade negotiaters openly disagreeing with and correcting the US president live on TV.

No one has any respect left for this guy.

circadian

There was silence when Pence mentioned him at Munich. Dead silence.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

So looks like Trump has caved on the China trade deal over the weekend as well, just like with North Korea, making broad claims about progress and agreements with nothing in writing to show for it.
#ArtOfTheDeal

looksee

circadian wrote: »

There was silence when Pence mentioned him at Munich. Dead silence.

That was eerie - usually you would have an odd individual start to clap out of habit or not paying attention, but the silence was absolute.