Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Wanderer78

spacecoyote wrote:

It all fits in with the air of wealth some in the US see in Trump. Its about big ostentatious branding & making sure that you look as rich & flashy as possible. Its why so many seem to buy in to the Trump brand of the American dream. It doesn't matter how bad you are at something, as long as you can sell the perception that you're good at it, people will lap it up.

It ll be interesting to see what happens when the Americans that believe in the American dream, realise, it's a bit of a scam

Quin_Dub

spacecoyote wrote: »

I see that the House of Reps have voted to revoke the National Emergency declaration too, with a majority of 245-182.

It'll go to the Senate now, which will obviously be a harder sell given the Rep majority, but according to the Irish Times, Collins, Murkowski & Tillis have already said they'll approve it.

If its just those 3, that would bring it to 50-50, so Pence would side with Trump. But it would only take one further move to push it through the Senate too

Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/us-house-of-representatives-votes-to-revoke-trump-s-emergency-1.3807547

So that looks like they fell just short of the "super majority" required to overrule Trump if he chose to ignore Congress.

They definitely won't get 60% in the Senate , but I think there is a fairly decent chance that they get that 4th GOP Senator to vote against.

It'll be a major embarrassment for Trump , but it'll still go ahead and will require one of the Court cases to succeed to prevent it.

everlast75

well this is an interesting read.....


https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/1100621212743544832

mcmoustache

Cohen's opening statement has been published.

It contains some interesting gems.

In conversations we had during the campaign, at the same time I was
actively negotiating in Russia for him, he would look me in the eye and tell
me there’s no business in Russia and then go out and lie to the American
people by saying the same thing. In his way, he was telling me to lie.

There were at least a half-dozen times between the Iowa Caucus in
January 2016 and the end of June when he would ask me “How’s it going
in Russia?” – referring to the Moscow Tower project.

You need to know that Mr. Trump’s personal lawyers reviewed and edited
my statement to Congress about the timing of the Moscow Tower
negotiations before I gave it.

Yet, last fall I pled guilty in federal court to felonies for the benefit of, at the
direction of, and in coordination with Individual #1.
For the record: Individual #1 is President Donald J. Trump.

Donald Trump is a man who ran for office to make his brand great, not to
make our country great. He had no desire or intention to lead this nation –
only to market himself and to build his wealth and power. Mr. Trump would
often say, this campaign was going to be the “greatest infomercial in
political history.”
He never expected to win the primary. He never expected to win the
general election. The campaign – for him – was always a marketing
opportunity.

But in the mix, lying for Mr. Trump was normalized, and no one around him
questioned it. In fairness, no one around him today questions it, either.

In July 2016, days before the Democratic convention, I was in Mr. Trump’s
office when his secretary announced that Roger Stone was on the phone.
Mr. Trump put Mr. Stone on the speakerphone. Mr. Stone told Mr. Trump
that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian Assange and that Mr.
Assange told Mr. Stone that, within a couple of days, there would be a
massive dump of emails that would damage Hillary Clinton’s campaign.
Mr. Trump responded by stating to the effect of “wouldn’t that be great.”

As Exhibit 5 to my testimony shows, I am providing a copy of a $35,000
check that President Trump personally signed from his personal bank
account on August 1, 2017 – when he was President of the United States –
pursuant to the cover-up, which was the basis of my guilty plea, to
reimburse me – the word used by Mr. Trump’s TV lawyer -- for the illegal
hush money I paid on his behalf. This $35,000 check was one of 11 check
installments that was paid throughout the year – while he was President.

Sometime in the summer of 2017, I read all over the media that there had
been a meeting in Trump Tower in June 2016 involving Don Jr. and others
from the campaign with Russians, including a representative of the Russian
government, and an email setting up the meeting with the subject line, “Dirt
on Hillary Clinton.” Something clicked in my mind. I remember being in the
room with Mr. Trump, probably in early June 2016, when something
peculiar happened. Don Jr. came into the room and walked behind his
father’s desk – which in itself was unusual. People didn’t just walk behind
Mr. Trump’s desk to talk to him. I recalled Don Jr. leaning over to his father
and speaking in a low voice, which I could clearly hear, and saying: “The
meeting is all set.” I remember Mr. Trump saying, “Ok good…let me
know.”

It's going to be an interesting day for sure.

Penn

everlast75 wrote: »

well this is an interesting read.....


https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/1100621212743544832

Unfortunately, out of everything in that testimony, I'm sure this is the bit his supporters will vehemently cling to:

Questions have been raised about whether I know of direct evidence that Mr. Trump or his campaign colluded with Russia. I do not. I want to be
clear. But, I have my suspicions.

Coupled with the fact that the Committee has agreed not to ask questions directly pertaining to the Russia investigation (which is largely the subject of the private hearings) and Cohen can't answer questions directly pertaining to the Russia investigation, the line coming from Trump & his supporters will simply be that Cohen said he has no evidence Trump or his campaign colluded with Russia.

But still, there are some giant items in that testimony and which will likely come through as part of the questioning.

everlast75

Penn wrote: »

Unfortunately, out of everything in that testimony, I'm sure this is the bit his supporters will vehemently cling to:



Coupled with the fact that the Committee has agreed not to ask questions directly pertaining to the Russia investigation (which is largely the subject of the private hearings) and Cohen can't answer questions directly pertaining to the Russia investigation, the line coming from Trump & his supporters will simply be that Cohen said he has no evidence Trump or his campaign colluded with Russia.

But still, there are some giant items in that testimony and which will likely come through as part of the questioning.

Thankfully, Manafort, Gates, Donald Jnr, Kushner, Veselnitskaya and Stone know plenty about collusion, so I'm happy to see what Mr. Cohen has to say on other matters.

duploelabs

mcmoustache wrote: »

Cohen's opening statement has been published.

It contains some interesting gems.
















It's going to be an interesting day for sure.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071177621445230596?s=19

UsedToWait

Testimony starts at 3pm our time, I think?
Would appreciate a link to a live stream when it starts, if anyone has one..

everlast75

UsedToWait wrote: »

Testimony starts at 3pm our time, I think?
Would appreciate a link to a live stream when it starts, if anyone has one..

CSPAN usually broadcasts stuff like this. Google that and you should be okay.

I received my delivery this morning in anticipation of it...

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

UsedToWait wrote: »

Testimony starts at 3pm our time, I think?
Would appreciate a link to a live stream when it starts, if anyone has one..

3pm here, you can watch on CSPAN-3 or directly on the house committee website (although I haven't been able to see where - maybe video only goes up nearer to the time?)

8-10

duploelabs wrote: »

It's not just politics in the states, it's tribalism.

Look at the way pavements are painted here in the North and bunting flown out across streets. Its a virtual way of 'circling the wagons' saying you belong to this group and no one else

Yep it's on another level over there. Have you seen the lawn flags that people put out all year round with their NFL team on it? And they have "house divided" flags with 2 different teams on it to show that the house contains a supporter of each team and it's not just a one-team house...

I couldn't imagine doing something like that here. Sure there's the occasional car sticker for Liverpool/Celtic/Dubs etc and bunting is a thing every now and again....but the flag culture in the US is a level above

mcmoustache

duploelabs wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071177621445230596?s=19

Without a hint of irony or self awareness, Trump has already called Cohen a liar. I expect his supporters to do the same, also without any hint of irony or self awareness.

everlast75

mcmoustache wrote: »

Without a hint of irony or self awareness, Trump has already called Cohen a liar. I expect his supporters to do the same, also without any hint of irony or self awareness.

Trump's right.

Cohen has lied.

However, I would be prepared to believe him now as

1) he is now prepared to sit down and give testimony under oath, knowing that to lie again will compound his position and put him in jail for a longer period of time

2) He is bringing documentation to back up his testimony.

Trump is also a liar. Approximately 9000 or so such lies since running for and becoming President.

In the interests of fairness, I would absolutely give DJT the same credence should he also give evidence under oath and bring documents to support what he says. How likely is that, though?

It is also interesting to note that Cohen lied to the Senate about Trump Tower Moscow in support of DJT, and the Senate didn't have a problem with Cohen lying to them then. All of a sudden, now they have a problem with his credibility?

Leroy42

One thing that many Trump supporters seem to miss is that just because a person has been proven to be a liar does not mean that you can simply ignore anything they say.

Many cases include a defendant turned witness, many times to get a reduced sentence or a plea deal. Of course it is correct to treat their evidence, as with anybody, with cynicism unless it can be shown to be true either by way of direct evidence of additional testimonies and circumstantial evidence.

Based on the reports of Cohen testimony thus far he appears to be backing up the claims he is making with direct evidence.

duploelabs

8-10 wrote: »

Yep it's on another level over there. Have you seen the lawn flags that people put out all year round with their NFL team on it? And they have "house divided" flags with 2 different teams on it to show that the house contains a supporter of each team and it's not just a one-team house...

I couldn't imagine doing something like that here. Sure there's the occasional car sticker for Liverpool/Celtic/Dubs etc and bunting is a thing every now and again....but the flag culture in the US is a level above

I think you should take a look at some of the soccer subs on Derby days to see how bad it can get

PropJoe10

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump's right.

Cohen has lied.

However, I would be prepared to believe him now as

1) he is now prepared to sit down and give testimony under oath, knowing that to lie again will compound his position and put him in jail for a longer period of time

2) He is bringing documentation to back up his testimony.

Trump is also a liar. Approximately 9000 or so such lies since running for and becoming President.

In the interests of fairness, I would absolutely give DJT the same credence should he also give evidence under oath and bring documents to support what he says. How likely is that, though?

It is also interesting to note that Cohen lied to the Senate about Trump Tower Moscow in support of DJT, and the Senate didn't have a problem with Cohen lying to them then. All of a sudden, now they have a problem with his credibility?

I don't particularly trust the word of Cohen but I trust the word of Trump even less. It should be interesting, if nothing else, to see what Cohen alleges. He won't be going near the stuff under investigation by Mueller but I don't think there's any other gags in terms of what he can and can't talk about. Also got my bucket of popcorn ready

duploelabs

I'm surprised we haven't yet seen the purveyors of evidence and critical thinking on with distractionary tactics of Trump's monumental summit. Speaking of which, will there be coins issued for that?

Leroy42

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I don't particularly trust the word of Cohen but I trust the word of Trump even less. It should be interesting, if nothing else, to see what Cohen alleges. He won't be going near the stuff under investigation by Mueller but I don't think there's any other gags in terms of what he can and can't talk about. Also got my bucket of popcorn ready

It is nothing to do with whom you trust or which one you trust more.

Nothing Cohen says should be taken as fact, just like anyone else. But neither can it simply be dismissed with a wave of the hand or by SHS claiming he is lying.

If Cohen does make serious allegations about Trump then it beholdens the Senate to at least investigate the validity of the claims and Trump should of course be brought in to explain if any issues are found.

One thing we know for certain is that Trump lied repeatedly about the Daniels affair and the payments to cover it up.
Another thing we can be certain of is that Trump was very aware of the Trump Tower project, even signing a MOU. He has, again, lied repeatedly about this.

Penn

Several sources on Twitter saying that Trump said in his response to Mueller that he and Roger Stone never discussed Wikileaks. Cohen's testimony states that he was present when Trump was called by Roger Stone, was put on speakerphone, and Stone talked about Wikileaks.

If Mueller can prove the call happened (which I'm guessing he very well might be able to given some of the other stuff they have from Stone), Trump has possibly committed perjury (no doubt the claim will simply be Trump doesn't remember it and therefore it's not perjury).

Leroy42

Penn wrote: »

Several sources on Twitter saying that Trump said in his response to Mueller that he and Roger Stone never discussed Wikileaks. Cohen's testimony states that he was present when Trump was called by Roger Stone, was put on speakerphone, and Stone talked about Wikileaks.

If Mueller can prove the call happened (which I'm guessing he very well might be able to given some of the other stuff they have from Stone), Trump has possibly committed perjury (no doubt the claim will simply be Trump doesn't remember it and therefore it's not perjury).

Well, my first response is that even if it was proved then Trump, and Giuliani, will simply claim that Trump was not under oath and as such no perjury could have happened.

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is nothing to do with whom you trust or which one you trust more.

Nothing Cohen says should be taken as fact, just like anyone else. But neither can it simply be dismissed with a wave of the hand or by SHS claiming he is lying.

If Cohen does make serious allegations about Trump then it beholdens the Senate to at least investigate the validity of the claims and Trump should of course be brought in to explain if any issues are found.

One thing we know for certain is that Trump lied repeatedly about the Daniels affair and the payments to cover it up.
Another thing we can be certain of is that Trump was very aware of the Trump Tower project, even signing a MOU. He has, again, lied repeatedly about this.

And as was previously pointed out , his seemingly odd attempts to downgrade what an MOU was during the press conference with Lightheizer is telling..

Hard for him to claim that Trump Tower Moscow was "a nothing that never went anywhere" if an MOU is widely recognised for what it is - A Contract and commitment to proceed.

duploelabs

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And as was previously pointed out , his seemingly odd attempts to downgrade what an MOU was during the press conference with Lightheizer is telling..

Hard for him to claim that Trump Tower Moscow was "a nothing that never went anywhere" if an MOU is widely recognised for what it is - A Contract and commitment to proceed.

I'm open to correction but isn't the 'Chinese trade deal' announced the other day only just a MOU?

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, my first response is that even if it was proved then Trump, and Giuliani, will simply claim that Trump was not under oath and as such no perjury could have happened.

I know that's what they'll say , but would his written responses not be a legally binding affidavit?

Is lying in writing to a Special counsel not just as ,or maybe even more incriminating than in person?

At least in person you could claim to have misspoken or gotten flustered or whatever..

Penn

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, my first response is that even if it was proved then Trump, and Giuliani, will simply claim that Trump was not under oath and as such no perjury could have happened.

I think his written submission to Mueller's questions still means it would count as perjury (or a similar named charge) as it's lying to a federal investigation. But no doubt Trump & Giuliani would try spin it into something else.

Quin_Dub

duploelabs wrote: »

I'm open to correction but isn't the 'Chinese trade deal' announced the other day only just a MOU?

Exactly , and Lightheizer spent quite a few minutes explaining that an MOU was a big important thing and that it meant that they had agreement on a load of things etc. etc.

Trump then tried to change that narrative and say that an MOU was not a contract and "didn't really mean very much"

Was that because he's just not that smart or knowledgeable about negotiating trade deals or was it because if he accepted that this MOU was a "big important document" that would put an entirely different lens on the MOU he signed for Trump Tower Moscow?

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

3pm here, you can watch on CSPAN-3 or directly on the house committee website (although I haven't been able to see where - maybe video only goes up nearer to the time?)

The House Committee on Oversight and Reform livestream is now up but nothing seems to be airing just yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Yk4WK4vjA

DEFTLEFTHAND

Great scenes with the President and Kim Jong Un.

RIGOLO

duploelabs wrote: »

I'm surprised we haven't yet seen the purveyors of evidence and critical thinking on with distractionary tactics of Trump's monumental summit. Speaking of which, will there be coins issued for that?

I expect there will be a Coin issued, I will probably pick it up . Ive got a nice collection coming together including some cool challenge coins. I digress...

The Anti-Trumpers call it 'distractionary tactics '

The adult observers call it an important summit liable to have implications for the whole South-East Asia region between the leader of the USA and a NK Dictator who has access both nuclear and intercontinental missile technology.

You say distractionary tactics, I say a summit with implications for the whole world.
We differ, thats ok its a free world.

James Brown

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Great scenes with the President and Kim Jong Un.

Trump is being played again. 'Little rocket man' is unlikely to let bygones be bygones. The N. Koreans are famous for looking like they are playing ball when they aren't. Kim knows if he's no nukes he'll be over run.

RIGOLO

So heres another example of why keeping the Senate was so important.

Donald Trump has been able to get his nominee Eric Miller thru the Senate and onto the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. He will become the 3rd Trump appointee on it.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trump-ninth-circuit-nominee-eric-miller-advances-in-senate-2

Some people no doubt will call this a distraction, personally I see it as a hugely important development on the largest appeals court in the US, as Trump administration continues to alter the judiciary with potential for impact for many many years to come.
Now that the process has been streamlined without the 'blue slips' expect more appointments to follow.

This is the USA we are talking about, theres many many things going on at the same time.
China Trade talks - check
NK Summit - check
Miller appointee on the 9th Circuit appeals court - check ...
and its only Wednesday . not bad for a man who people say cant plan.