Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Water John

Is that Trump dropping Pence from the ticket or Pence dropping Trump and running himself?

duploelabs

Water John wrote: »

Is that Trump dropping Pence from the ticket or Pence dropping Trump and running himself?

Trump needs Pence, that isn't reciprocated

jochenstacker

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/15/donald-trump-use-veto-power-first-time-his-border-wall/3174710002/

Trump veto, no surprise.

Igotadose

Trump, as usual, is ambiguous when it comes to white nationalism. Says he doesn't believe it's on the rise and doesn't know about the NZ killer. Remarkably uninformed when it suits him, as usual. Maybe he hadn't read that days briefings before meeting with the press. He did say it was a 'terrible thing, terrible thing.' Clearly couldn't be bothered to show any empathy.

Now, if this was a shooting at a Christian church or synagogue, he becomes a blood-and-thunder preacher then. But, Moslems? Ehh?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/16/politics/donald-trump-new-zealand-white-supremacy-muslims/index.html

duploelabs

Igotadose wrote: »

Trump, as usual, is ambiguous when it comes to white nationalism. Says he doesn't believe it's on the rise and doesn't know about the NZ killer. Remarkably uninformed when it suits him, as usual. Maybe he hadn't read that days briefings before meeting with the press. He did say it was a 'terrible thing, terrible thing.' Clearly couldn't be bothered to show any empathy.

Now, if this was a shooting at a Christian church or synagogue, he becomes a blood-and-thunder preacher then. But, Moslems? Ehh?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/16/politics/donald-trump-new-zealand-white-supremacy-muslims/index.html

What disgusts me the most is his copying of the rhetoric (following his veto announcement) used in the manefesto of the NZ attacker, and the feigned protestations that its just coincidence by his supporters

Manic Moran

On the matter of paying the US for basing in their countries, Poland has offered $2bn to turn “Fort Trump” into a permanent US base. Granted, well paid American soldiers will also contribute to the local economy, so it’s not a full outlay. As defense expenditures go, they will be getting quite a bit of national defense for their $2bn.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/03/13/prepare-to-man-fort-trump-us-has-made-poland-a-very-serious-robust-offer-for-base/?fbclid=IwAR0BGLlSNIDT1rGWAZhqNTiuG3_8svMkTscEURCMvaNBG5-F0Irnglr0dXc

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

On the matter of paying the US for basing in their countries, Poland has offered $2bn to turn “Fort Trump” into a permanent US base. Granted, well paid American soldiers will also contribute to the local economy, so it’s not a full outlay. As defense expenditures go, they will be getting quite a bit of national defense for their $2bn.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/03/13/prepare-to-man-fort-trump-us-has-made-poland-a-very-serious-robust-offer-for-base/?fbclid=IwAR0BGLlSNIDT1rGWAZhqNTiuG3_8svMkTscEURCMvaNBG5-F0Irnglr0dXc

Ta for that. I meant to PM you on whether the US troops spending power to local economies was taken into account with respect to Don asking for more return from the European NATO etc countries where US Pers were based, AND whether most of the Pers spending was spent in base shops holding US produced goods. I'd imagined there would be a deal done between US Def Dept and NATO for said goods to be flown in on US aircraft to Ramstein and other bases without tariff costs, as a courtesy if nothing else to the PBI. Having being based in Lebanon and Israel with the UN, and being paid in US Dollars-cash in both countries, I reckoned the US would get a return in sorts from cash spent on goods.

Edit: there would presumably be the usual interchange of training between troops/units on field tactics & weapons, with follow-on military interest in acquiring weapons & comms seen as better for field-ops use.

The idea of such a base could be immense in global-political terms, a forward-ops base in an area which Russia seems to be trying to reclaim as its sphere of influence.

MadYaker

aloyisious wrote: »

Ta for that. I meant to PM you on whether the US troops spending power to local economies was taken into account with respect to Don asking for more return from the European NATO etc countries where US Pers were based, AND whether most of the Pers spending was spent in base shops holding US produced goods. I'd imagined there would be a deal done between US Def Dept and NATO for said goods to be flown in on US aircraft to Ramstein and other bases without tariff costs, as a courtesy if nothing else to the PBI. Having being based in Lebanon and Israel with the UN, and being paid in US Dollars-cash in both countries, I reckoned the US would get a return in sorts from cash spent on goods.

Edit: there would presumably be the usual interchange of training between troops/units on field tactics & weapons, with follow-on military interest in acquiring weapons & comms seen as better for field-ops use.

The idea of such a base could be immense in global-political terms, a forward-ops base in an area which Russia seems to be trying to reclaim as its sphere of influence.

You honestly think there's even a chance Trump might build a huge US military base that close to Russia? Have been paying attention to whats been happening the last 2 years?

aloyisious

MadYaker wrote: »

You honestly think there's even a chance Trump might build a huge US military base that close to Russia? Have been paying attention to whats been happening the last 2 years?

Don's promises mostly turn out to be fake news and any that reach completion are by evolution in events. I'll be sceptical and say this idea is not his, probably not something he might think "nice" but it would serve him as a rebuttal of "collusion" in his search for a 2nd term. If he doesn't tweet in the negative about this idea, think of it as an election ploy and as it's long term something he won't be around to pull the strings on the wall plaque.

Manic Moran

MadYaker wrote: »

You honestly think there's even a chance Trump might build a huge US military base that close to Russia? Have been paying attention to whats been happening the last 2 years?

Put bluntly, yes.

Poland is not one of the NATO countries which has been drawing his ire, they are making the 2% minimum expenditure. Poland has been trying to get a more permanent US presence for quite a few years now, they've been paying attention for the last ten years, and the most recent Defense Authorisation Act instructed the President to investigate a permanent base in Poland for a brigade.

There actually already is a permanent US facility, but it is not a base in the traditional sense, it's a support structure for the US Army units which rotate through every 9 months on a deployment, as opposed to a permanently stationed force. Or, in other words, there are always US troops in Poland at that base, but it's not always the same US troops. Poland wants to change that.

Ultros

Christopher Steele used user generated content from an old CNN type blog for part of his dossier. Using such information should be a solid indicator that accusations in the dossier have to be highly scrutinized.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/16/politics/steele-information-dossier/index.html

"A newly released snippet of a deposition with the ex-British spy behind the Trump-Russia dossier describes some of the steps he took to verify information he collected for it in 2016, including pulling from a user-generated citizen journalism initiative by CNN, iReport, which no longer operates.

Christopher Steele admitted during a lawsuit deposition that he used internet searches and unverified information to support details he had gathered about a web company mentioned in the dossier, according to select pages of his deposition transcript that a federal court unsealed this week.

But Steele limited his answers about how he verified information about the web companies who claimed they were defamed. He would not explain, for instance, what else he did or sources he used to verify information in the dossier about Webzilla, its parent company XBT and their Russian founder Aleksej Gubarev, who were named in the dossier. He did not have to describe during the deposition all the steps he took to collect or check the information because of terms set by the court."

mcmoustache

Ultros wrote: »

Christopher Steele used user generated content from an old CNN type blog for part of his dossier. Using such information should be a solid indicator that accusations in the dossier have to be highly scrutinized.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/16/politics/steele-information-dossier/index.html

"A newly released snippet of a deposition with the ex-British spy behind the Trump-Russia dossier describes some of the steps he took to verify information he collected for it in 2016, including pulling from a user-generated citizen journalism initiative by CNN, iReport, which no longer operates.

Christopher Steele admitted during a lawsuit deposition that he used internet searches and unverified information to support details he had gathered about a web company mentioned in the dossier, according to select pages of his deposition transcript that a federal court unsealed this week.

But Steele limited his answers about how he verified information about the web companies who claimed they were defamed. He would not explain, for instance, what else he did or sources he used to verify information in the dossier about Webzilla, its parent company XBT and their Russian founder Aleksej Gubarev, who were named in the dossier. He did not have to describe during the deposition all the steps he took to collect or check the information because of terms set by the court."

Yeah, I noticed that story doing the rounds on the kinds of places that have a habit of deliberately confusing what the steele dossier was and its role in the many investigations into Trump.




So what's the implication exactly? That Steele based the the entire dossier on some rando blogs or something?

BabyCheeses

Was it not established from the start that the Steele dossier was unverified?

Given the effort being made to discredit it, it must have been too close to the truth.

everlast75

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Was it not established from the start that the Steele dossier was unverified?

Given the effort being made to discredit it, it must have been too close to the truth.

There are parts of it that are verified.

Some parts are openly contested, such as Cohen being in Prague.

What needs to be remembered is that Steele was hired by the Republicans to do opposition research on Trump. The Reps dropped him and the Dems picked it up from there.

So the key point here is that he was initially hired by the Reps.

Secondly, he is NOT the reason for the FISA warrants. George Popolopodus blabbering while on the sauce is.

So, to recap, the Reps hired him, it wasn't illegal, some of it has been proven to be true, and the dossier did not lead to the FISA warrants.

Its important to highlight these points, as even Trump himself cannot seem to grasp or at least acknowledge publicly these facts.

Gbear

everlast75 wrote: »

There are parts of it that are verified.

Some parts are openly contested, such as Cohen being in Prague.

On this point, I have heard from one of the various podcasts that often speak on these things (can't remember which), that the raid on Cohen's office included the seizure of a load of mobile phones, so they posited that he might have handled the burner phones they used and while the phone was tied to him, he mightn't have been using them, or all of them.

Perhaps the Mueller report will reveal something on the issue.

Ultros

mcmoustache wrote: »

So what's the implication exactly? That Steele based the the entire dossier on some rando blogs or something?

You know Trump tweeted about that story right? I checked his twitter feed then googled the story and found a Fox and CNN article about it, then linked the CNN article here. I don't know why you're screen-shotting r/the_donald to try and diminish my point, its a cheap way to try and discredit me, you should be above that. Next time you make a point I'll screengrab from a cesspool like r/politics, you see how unfair that is?

Point is Steele used user generated content, not dissimilar to reddit, to try and back up accusations he made in his dossier.

Ultros

everlast75 wrote: »

What needs to be remembered is that Steele was hired by the Republicans to do opposition research on Trump. The Reps dropped him and the Dems picked it up from there.

So the key point here is that he was initially hired by the Reps.

That's absolutely false. How you can even continue to spout such falsehoods as fact even after years have passed. It's verifiably untrue that Republicans had anything to do with Christopher Steele. What's true is a faction of anti Trump Republicans initially hired Fusion GPS to dig up dirt on Trump. Steele only got involved while the Clinton campaign and their law firm were contracting Fusion GPS

( From the article below )
"In a statement, the Washington Free Beacon said it retained Fusion GPS to provide research on multiple Republican candidates in the 2016 presidential election. Two people familiar with billionaire GOP donor Paul Singer said he provides financial support to the publication. A spokesman for Singer's firm, Elliott Management, did not respond to requests seeking comment.

The Free Beacon said its research ended before Fusion GPS hired a former British intelligence officer, Christopher Steele, to produce a series of reports alleging links between Russia and those close to Trump. That occurred after the firm was retained by a lawyer for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee.

"None of the work product that the Free Beacon received appears in the Steele dossier,'' said the statement from Free Beacon editor in chief Matthew Continetti and chairman Michael Goldfarb. "We stand by our reporting and we do not apologize for our methods.''

Water John

I think I'll wait for Mueller to see the truth, whatever way it lies. Though the Trump Tower meeting is enough for me to know how treasonous some of those close to Trump are. The obligation was on those who knew to inform the FBI immediately and take instruction from them as to how to proceed.
Hope also some more light will be shone on that dedicated server in Trump Tower.

Midlife

Ultros wrote: »

That's absolutely false. How you can even continue to spout such falsehoods as fact even after years have passed. It's verifiably untrue that Republicans had anything to do with Christopher Steele. What's true is a faction of anti Trump Republicans initially hired Fusion GPS to dig up dirt on Trump. Steele only got involved while the Clinton campaign and their law firm were contracting Fusion GPS

In fairness, while you may be correct is that really worth an argument? there are a lot of big things to discuss. When exactly Steele joined the fusion gps dirt dig on Trump doesn't really matter too much.

Of course Republicians went for him when they saw him as a threat. That's what's done in American politics.

aloyisious

Kate Gillibrand seems to be taking the election race publicity right to Don's family business front door with her decision to hold a speech in front of the Trump NY Hotel on Friday. This could makes things interesting media-wise if Don decides to respond in advance.

Edit: It seems Don is on a twitter offensive attacking the late John McCain twice in 24 hours and of leaking something negative about him to the FBI. Distraction politics at its worst, even if there is nothing to distract about.

Ultros

Water John wrote: »

I think I'll wait for Mueller to see the truth, whatever way it lies. Though the Trump Tower meeting is enough for me to know how treasonous some of those close to Trump are. The obligation was on those who knew to inform the FBI immediately and take instruction from them as to how to proceed.
Hope also some more light will be shone on that dedicated server in Trump Tower.

I agree, if I was on the other side I can totally understand why anti Repub/Trump people are convinced that there was some sort of conspiracy. The Trump tower thing is the most convincing argument there is bar none.

Ultros

Midlife wrote: »

In fairness, while you may be correct is that really worth an argument?

It's not really, it's a moot point at this stage.

We'll see what Mueller comes up with.

Water John

There is no sides to this. Any American citizen would be obligated to act in that manner. Inform the FBI and take instruction from them.
Seeking or accepting foreign help in an election is illegal and criminal. Don't care if it was Donald or Hilary.

Ultros

Water John wrote: »

There is no sides to this. Any American citizen would be obligated to act in that manner. Inform the FBI and take instruction from them.
Seeking or accepting foreign help in an election is illegal and criminal. Don't care if it was Donald or Hilary.

I agree, but it does go on all the time, obviously not to the extent of what happened with the hacking and the subsequent impact it had on the election. The Ukrainian government were responsible for Manafort getting fired after meeting with DNC rep's and the Clinton campaign met secretly with Chinese officials in January of 2016.

I'm not trying to belittle the impact Russia had on the 2016 election, it's probable that without Wikileaks intervention Clinton would have won since the vote margins in the swings states were so minuscule.

everlast75

Ultros wrote: »

That's absolutely false. How you can even continue to spout such falsehoods as fact even after years have passed. It's verifiably untrue that Republicans had anything to do with Christopher Steele. What's true is a faction of anti Trump Republicans initially hired Fusion GPS to dig up dirt on Trump. Steele only got involved while the Clinton campaign and their law firm were contracting Fusion GPS

Lol.

A trump defender with faux outrage over "falsehoods"

My irony-meter just exploded.

I got it wrong on the finer details. It happens.

Fusion GPS was contracted by Reps to conduct opp research, including on Trump.
The Reps stopped its backing when Trump became the presumptive Republican Party presidential nominee.
In June 2016, Fusion GPS subcontracted Steele's firm to compile the dossier.

Anyway - conspiracy proved by the Trump Tower meeting.

Obstruction of justice proven by the Lester Holt video.

There will be plenty more we don't currently know which will be proven.

It's a good thing Trump et al are as dumb as a bag of rocks. Otherwise the U.S. would be in a much worse state. Hopefully they'll tighten things up for the next Pres.

Ultros

everlast75 wrote: »

I got it wrong on the finer details. It happens.

If by finer details you mean what you said is totally false, then yeah. Your wall of text won't change that.

everlast75

Lots of people openly expressing concern now for Trump's mental health.

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1107279433361223682?s=19

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1107304688414834696?s=19

Ultros

everlast75 wrote: »

Lots of people openly expressing concern now for Trump's mental health.

On this point I agree with you. Something isn't right with him, and hasn't been for a long time. From a coherent standpoint as to when he announced his run he talks totally differently.

I always think about when he sits around a table with his cabinet, just watch him, he cant sit still at all and he's always flinching. That is a sure fine sign something isn't right, whether it's anxiety or something else I'm not sure.

He was a somewhat confident and composed figure prior to winning the election.

Trump is a very complicated individual, it's impossible to figure him out, that's what makes it so intriguing I guess.

everlast75

Ultros wrote: »

If by finer details you mean what you said is totally false, then yeah. Your wall of text won't change that.

Me????

Wall of text?

This is like Trump slagging Beto O'Rourke's hand movements. Zero self awareness.

Anyway, i look forward to my hitting 10,000 plus lies; apparently that's when I finally earn your worship.

Ultros

everlast75 wrote: »

Me????

Yes, what you said about Republicans initially hiring Steele is totally false.