Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

DrumSteve

Leroy42 wrote: »

One thing we all should have learned from Trump, from things like the premature calls of the ground breaking deal with NK, the amazing trade deals with China etc, is that Trump is great out getting out first with the narrative that he wants and others are left, as they await actual evidence, to discuss it on the terms set by Trump and his team.

For example, the whole 'collusion' idea is really set up by Trump, it was never the sole target of the Mueller investigation but now it appears that as collusion hasn't been proved that the report is a clear vindication.

I, like everyone else bar Barr, haven't seen the report but the fact that Barr's report contains no full quotes is odd. Everyone should wait for the actual details rather than jumping on what Trump, a proven and known liar, is saying on the subject when he (and his team) are currently the only people to have seen it.

I guess to trump it doesn't matter whats in the report; his supporters will be believe him regardless.

Though id Mueller states unequivocally that he's innocent I'd be happy to accept that and move on.

Water John

Since Trump's mother was from Scotland, the Mueller Report seems to be in the 'Not Proven' legal code.
BTW that's a long way from innocent.

Cheerful Spring

Leroy42 wrote: »

One thing we all should have learned from Trump, from things like the premature calls of the ground breaking deal with NK, the amazing trade deals with China etc, is that Trump is great out getting out first with the narrative that he wants and others are left, as they await actual evidence, to discuss it on the terms set by Trump and his team.

For example, the whole 'collusion' idea is really set up by Trump, it was never the sole target of the Mueller investigation but now it appears that as collusion hasn't been proved that the report is a clear vindication.

I, like everyone else bar Barr, haven't seen the report but the fact that Barr's report contains no full quotes is odd. Everyone should wait for the actual details rather than jumping on what Trump, a proven and known liar, is saying on the subject when he (and his team) are currently the only people to have seen it.

The Americans missed an opportunity here to change NK. It is very unrealistic to demand full denuclearisation with heavy sanctions are still in place. They demanded everything first and gave nothing in return. NK only defence against the America military is the nuclear bomb. There military is decades old and could not last more than a few weeks in a major war against South Korea, Japan and America. It going to take some time to normalise relations in this region. It not like sanctions could not be introduced again if NK refused to change its status on nuclear weapons. Diplomacy never works by demanding everything at once. Trump messed up big time.

They should release the full report but I doubt it going to change the narrative. Mueller report said there not enough evidence for new indictments. Muller people would have spoken by now if Barr had lied.

MadYaker

When is the report due to be released?

I assume there will be some redactions even if the full report is released.

Leroy42

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Americans missed an opportunity here to change NK. It is very unrealistic to demand full denuclearisation with heavy sanctions are still in place. They demanded everything first and gave nothing in return. NK only defence against the America military is the nuclear bomb. There military is decades old and could not last more than a few weeks in a major war against South Korea, Japan and America. It going to take some time to normalise relations in this region. It not like sanctions could not be introduced again if NK did move to change its status on nuclear weapons. Diplomacy never works by demanding everything at once. Trump messed up big time.

They should release the full report but I doubt it going to change the narrative. Mueller report said there not enough evidence for new indictments. Muller people would have spoken by now if Barr had lied.

The point is not what actually happened, or could have, with NK. The point is that Trump came out of that 1st summit saying everything was done, NK was no longer a threat. People were calling for Trump to win the peace prize. It turns out that none of that was true, and made quite a few pro-Trump posters on this thread look incredibly foolish given that the only source for their view was the line put out by Trump and his team.

In terms of Mueller speaking up, why would he? It is clearly Barrs remit to do whatever he wants with the report, Mueller has done the job he was asked to do.

There are plenty of investigations that are undertaken and simply not followed on with due to a DA decision or whatever, you can't expect the people who carried out the investigation to come out publicly.

You can bet if Barr has twisted anything (which I am not saying he has as I simply do not know) that he has done so with a link to the truth so it not an outright lie simply an interpretation of the report.

Cheerful Spring

Leroy42 wrote: »

The point is not what actually happened, or could have, with NK. The point is that Trump came out of that 1st summit saying everything was done, NK was no longer a threat. People were calling for Trump to win the peace prize. It turns out that none of that was true, and made quite a few pro-Trump posters on this thread look incredibly foolish given that the only source for their view was the line put out by Trump and his team.

In terms of Mueller speaking up, why would he? It is clearly Barrs remit to do whatever he wants with the report, Mueller has done the job he was asked to do.

There are plenty of investigations that are undertaken and simply not followed on with due to a DA decision or whatever, you can't expect the people who carried out the investigation to come out publicly.

You can bet if Barr has twisted anything (which I am not saying he has as I simply do not know) that he has done so with a link to the truth so it not an outright lie simply an interpretation of the report.

Trump got them to stop firing ICBM rockets over Japan, he stopped the threat for a year and stopped an escalating situation. Trump surrounded himself with neocons since so they playing hardball now with North Korea and demanding full denuclearisation before sanction relief. If Trump thought this would work he is an idiot. He learning now the NK is now going to just give up everything overnight and leave themselves defenceless, like as did not work out great for Gaddafi.

North Korea population suffers not the elite from sanctions. You only know what they willing to do when you take off the sanctions and see how they react only then will you know if they playing a game. Trump overplayed his hand and NK kicked back and now we back to square one.

Muller people would have spoken if Barr lied. They would have leaked info to the press by now if Barr was telling untruths and hiding info. Interpretation of what exactly the muller report cleared Trump and his aides of conspiring with Russia. Are you expecting to wake up some morning and hear the full report says something different about Trump? If the evidence existed Barr could not hide that for long. Obviously, there was some Russian interference online but there no possible way they influenced the trump support base that much. Democrats lose their minds for two years and bought into this narrative because of Clinton Steele dossier. This dossier made allegations Trump was a Russian agent and got worse from there on.

MrFresh

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

It’s over people just let it go
Investigations should now start into Hillary
Hopefully she will be locked up

Why stop at Hillary? Go further back. I hear that Washington fella was a bit of a bad egg at home. Where's the completely unbiased investigation into his wife? Trump supporters are so determined to make Hillary relevant again. It must be because the current batch of targets like Cortez have bitten back.

rossie1977

RobertKK wrote: »

With Benghazi a US ambassador and other US officials ended up dead in a country she had pushed for regime change as Secretary of State.
It was her department that was responsible and one can’t she was left unaccountable over it.
So as Mueller turned out good for Trump, likewise this ended up good for Hillary.

There were 10 us embassies and consulates attacked during 8 years of George Bush jr presidency, 60 people killed and no major investigations by Republican party.

Ultros

Lindsey Graham to hold press conference in 5 minutes on Mueller report findings. Would have thought Trump would be doing something similar today? Perhaps not

MrFresh

Ultros wrote: »

Lindsey Graham to hold press conference in 5 minutes on Mueller report findings. Would have thought Trump would be doing something similar today? Perhaps not

No prizes for guessing what he'll say.

Eric Cartman

Is graham trying to make a VP play or something ? Whats he getting out of being such an ass kisser these days

everlast75

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Is graham trying to make a VP play or something ? Whats he getting out of being such an ass kisser these days

He got a massive bump in his popularity in his home state since his 180 degree turnabout on Trump. And he's up for re-election next year.

froog

splinter65 wrote:

What exactly has Trump done so far in his presidency that warrants this hysteria? Is there a list of things he’s responsible for that have resulted in harm for Americans?

withdrawing from the paris agreement is bad on a historical level that will probably define his legacy for decades/centuries to come.

his words and actions have emboldened far right terrorists.

you could argue he regularly puts Americans in danger with his Twitter led foreign policy decision making.

TomOnBoard

Graham's presser promises Mueller-like focus on:

Legality of Carter Page FISA warrant and its reliance on the Steele dossier, given Dem funding for same
Intrusion or otherwise by Loretta Lynch into Clinton email investigation and necessity for Comey to lead the charge in July 2016
How Wiener laptop investigation was disposed of.

everlast75

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Graham's presser promises Mueller-like focus on:

Legality of Carter Page FISA warrant and its reliance on the Steele dossier, given Dem funding for same
Intrusion or otherwise by Loretta Lynch into Clinton email investigation and necessity for Comey to lead the charge in July 2016
How Wiener laptop investigation was disposed of.

We could play Deep State Bingo. We would have a full card right there, if Bengazi and email security get mentioned.

Ivan2019

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Is graham trying to make a VP play or something ? Whats he getting out of being such an ass kisser these days

Impossible
Trump supporters like Graham as meme and for his support for Kavanaugh
But never in presidency or vp
More likely trump retires and Mike pence take over as president.

MrFresh

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Graham's presser promises Mueller-like focus on:

Legality of Carter Page FISA warrant and its reliance on the Steele dossier, given Dem funding for same
Intrusion or otherwise by Loretta Lynch into Clinton email investigation and necessity for Comey to lead the charge in July 2016
How Wiener laptop investigation was disposed of.

Let them work away. If they find something all the better. At least it will keep them busy and less likely toi interfere in all the investigations into Republicans and Trumps.

Ultros

Gutfeld absolutely nails it. Isn't it ironic that the ones who perpetuated the Russian collusion narrative turned out to be the useful idiots. They achieved exactly what Russia wanted, to sow division and pit people against each other.

https://twitter.com/greggutfeld/status/1109991254367051779

Leroy42

Ultros wrote: »

Gutfeld absolutely nails it. Isn't it ironic that the ones who perpetuated the Russian collusion narrative turned out to be the useful idiots. They achieved exactly what Russia wanted, to sow division and pit people against each other.

https://twitter.com/greggutfeld/status/1109991254367051779

By nailed it do you mean he just made up a load of nonsense and presented it as facts?

DrumSteve

Ultros wrote: »

Gutfeld absolutely nails it. Isn't it ironic that the ones who perpetuated the Russian collusion narrative turned out to be the useful idiots. They achieved exactly what Russia wanted, to sow division and pit people against each other.

https://twitter.com/greggutfeld/status/1109991254367051779

Yeah definitely, I mean I read that on page... actually what page of the report was that on? Can't see it here.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Apart from pulling out of all the Climate change agreements that will f**k up the world.....there is the small matter of him calling a bunch of white Nazi nationalists "Good People" thus sowing racism and hatred among Americans and demonizing immigrants and locking children up in cages.....no I cant see what he has done to upset people

He’s pretty inarticulate. No Republican would have done much on climate change. I don’t think Hillary would have either. As usual when it comes to TDS there’s little mention of the stuff that trump has done, that a democrat might have done - like Yemen or Syria. Not even his foreign policy actions that have been disastrous, mostly involving Israel and Iran.

Ultros

I've seen some outcry that Barr and Rosenstein rushed through the decision not to prosecute on obstruction since they only received the report Friday*, that turns out be to untrue. According to NBC they were told 3 weeks ago.

https://twitter.com/JuliaEAinsley/status/1110212281957314560

Franz Von Peppercorn

everlast75 wrote: »

We could play Deep State Bingo. We would have a full card right there, if Bengazi and email security get mentioned.

To be fair the dossier didn’t write itself. It was also brought to us by the same people who gave us dossiers on Iraq.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1110214901589573634?s=19

The man's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

If Trump is due an apology, he can get one, right after he, Rudy and the rest of his ghouls apologise to Mueller for the 2 years tirade of abuse.

Ivan2019

There is really nothing left to say
Possibly Mueller was compromised by Russian.
Hopefully USA can find middle ground and maga

MrFresh

Ultros wrote: »

I've seen some outcry that Barr and Rosenstein rushed through the decision not to prosecute on obstruction since they only received the report Friday*, that turns out be to untrue. According to NBC they were told 3 weeks ago.

https://twitter.com/JuliaEAinsley/status/1110212281957314560

Those two things aren't related though. They still had to read the report and form their own opinion. It's not unusual for the investigator to leave it to the prosecutor to make the decision.

everlast75

McCain has been attacked for years for handing over the dossier to the FBI and Graham said nothing. Turns out he convinced McCain to do it.

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1110221051324174337?s=19

TomOnBoard

Trump must be laughing into his milkshakes today. Hot on the heels of Barr's letter, its being reported that Michael Avenatti (remember him?) has been arrested on charges of attempted extortion of more than $20 millions against Nike in New York. He is also due to be charged in California on banking and wire fraud charges later today/tomorrow..

jobbridge4life

Ivan2019 wrote: »

There is really nothing left to say
Possibly Mueller was compromised by Russian.
Hopefully USA can find middle ground and maga

There is everything to say. The lack of collusion doesn't make any material difference to the fact that Trump is a grossly unfit, unethical, criminal in the office of POTUS. It doesn't change the fact that wages are pretty stagnant, that healthcare is deteriorating, that he passed a tax break that has almost exclusively benefited the most well off in an increasingly dysfunctional society. And on and on.

Mueller was always a distraction from the issues that mattered. The issues that when they focused on them, the Dems won handsomely in the midterms.

froog

question - what exactly can congress do if they read the full report and determine that there is enough evidence of obstruction to indict, given that the AG has determined that there is not?