Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

peddlelies

FrostyJack wrote: »

And before you say MSNBC and CNN are the equivalent on the Left, you could not be more wrong.

That's a very compelling argument.

There's little research out there besides a report by Pew Research study which ended in 2012 that showed MSNBC was made up 85% opinion / 15 % factual news, CNN was made up of 46/54 and Fox 55/45.

I think it's laughable to suggest a cable channel like MSNBC isn't an arm of the Democrat party especially after what's gone on over the last two years, unless of course you're heavily invested in it and you're deluded by confirmation bias, but each to their own.

This has been masterfully played by the Russians. This right here, this feeling among so many that democracy has been stolen, was always the desired outcome. It's been published before that making the public aware of the attempts was key to destabilising a country.

EltonJohn69

Trump is really kicking off at his rally... called Adam Schiff a “pencil kneck” ... calling his opponents sick people... the crowd is going nuts for him

EltonJohn69

Crowd are chanting lock them up... I think America really might be on the precipice

jjpep

Random thought. Will trump be the USA's Yeltsin?

EltonJohn69

How like Yeltsin ?

EltonJohn69

How is trump still going on about his election win ! Trump could be talking about eating raccoons and rats and the crowd would still be cheering

EltonJohn69

It really is looking like 4 more years

FrostyJack

peddlelies wrote: »

That's a very compelling argument.

There's little research out there besides a report by Pew Research study which ended in 2012 that showed MSNBC was made up 85% opinion / 15 % factual news, CNN was made up of 46/54 and Fox 55/45.

I think it's laughable to suggest a cable channel like MSNBC isn't an arm of the Democrat party especially after what's gone on over the last two years, unless of course you're heavily invested in it and you're deluded by confirmation bias, but each to their own.

MSNBC is left leaning, so say Trump did something wrong or stupid (a daily event) they will run with it as the top story. If Obama, Schumer or someone saves a cat from a tree they promote that. They don't make stuff up, and create false narratives. Just look at the coverage of Korea when comparing Trump and Obama, one is a traitor for even thinking about negotiating and the other is hero and a patriot for bending over for Kim. Tan suits, saluting with coffee, coming for you guns, reverse racisim etc. Obama never sat all day watching CNN and MSNBC and then created policy on what he was told either. Fox is even more on the nose than RT and that is saying something. Someone in the GOP comes up with a talking point and suddenly that is what is being pushed by Fox hosts, this not including the other tricks like putting Obama's picture up during a rapist segment by accident. Remember the Swedish massacre? I could go on all night, just watch Outfoxed documentary from a few years ago and you see how they operate.

FrostyJack

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

D'Souza is not liked by the left because he has many good points.
his point that fascism is a creation of the left is true.
mussolini hitler stalin mao pot all socialists.

He makes no good points, he lies like you just did. Hitler and Mussolini were right wing fascists. The very definition of facisim is it is far right, you cannot be left wing and facist. You have access to the internet, thousands of dictionaries, history books etc. and you can't even discover that. They were not socialist, the Nazi party used the name to attract left wing voters. It is the same as the Democratic Republic of Korea, is that a democratic government? This has been pointed our here 100's of times but keeps coming up because of people like D'Souza and Hannity who make stuff up to suit their cause.

Stacksofwacks

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

It really is looking like 4 more years

Still early days, whoever the dems run at least they have an advantage that they arent Hilary Clinton who was universally hated. Biden or Harris would beat Trump, who hasnt reached out to non republicans voters, his "base" wont get him over the line this time

FrostyJack

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

mussolini and hitler were socialists. this is fact.
use the internet to study the description of what a socialist is.
then look at their political beliefs.

i dont believe you are a liar, i just think education levels are not what they used to be.

It is a fact in your head not in reality. If you really believe this you should really have a look at what else you believe and how you have come to this conclusion. The first 2 links if you google are these, it isn't very difficult. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you were just misinformed and too lazy to look it up.

https://www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists

Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class conflict, opposed cosmopolitan internationalism, and sought to convince all parts of the new German society to subordinate their personal interests to the "common good", accepting political interests as the main priority of economic organization.

ancapailldorcha

Count dooku banned.

duploelabs

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

It really is looking like 4 more years

Win or lose, Trump will be in the big house in 2020

everlast75

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Trump is really kicking off at his rally... called Adam Schiff a “pencil kneck” ... calling his opponents sick people... the crowd is going nuts for him

Big words from a man who can't even muster the courage to fire someone in person.

The idea that this guy is some sort of hard man is a complete and utter joke. I've never seen someone more insecure and frightened.

It is his craven need for worship that makes him hold these rallies. He needs constant validation.

He surrounds himself with lackies (Graham, Nunes, Whitaker) and is compelled to sit down in front of Fox News so that he can be told that he's doing such a good job and that everyone else is being mean when they don't agree.

If I didn't despise the man I'd feel sorry for him.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

Interesting tweet by Rogue POTUS Staff - not sure it's very likely, but shows that if the rational majority of the Republican party didn't blindly buy into the MAGA nonsense, they might be able to rescue their party (if they want to).

https://twitter.com/RoguePOTUSStaff/status/1111387909150539777

duploelabs

everlast75 wrote: »

Big words from a man who can't even muster the courage to fire someone in person.

The idea that this guy is some sort of hard man is a complete and utter joke. I've never seen someone more insecure and frightened.

It is his craven need for worship that makes him hold these rallies. He needs constant validation.

He surrounds himself with lackies (Graham, Nunes, Whitaker) and is compelled to sit down in front of Fox News so that he can be told that he's doing such a good job and that everyone else is being mean when they don't agree.

If I didn't despise the man I'd feel sorry for him.

Trump is a classic projectionist. Each and every time he attacks someone, simply change the pretext to that he's describing those qualities he's most ashamed of in his character. Makes for much easier listening.

Drain the swamp.

He's a pencil neck.

He's probably the worst president America has ever had (about Obama)

Lock her Up.

(And of course)

No puppet, you're the puppet

Danzy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This has been masterfully played by the Russians. This right here, this feeling among so many that democracy has been stolen, was always the desired outcome. It's been published before that making the public aware of the attempts was key to destabilising a country.

So the Russians made stations like CNN and MSNBC run daily takes and stories on Russia and the election.

They knew it was fantasy but the ratings were gold so they kept at it.

The Democrats knew it was a dead end but it gave them something to vent for 2 years and allowed them not to examine their own faults.

hill16bhoy

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

Interesting tweet by Rogue POTUS Staff - not sure it's very likely, but shows that if the rational majority of the Republican party didn't blindly buy into the MAGA nonsense, they might be able to rescue their party (if they want to).

https://twitter.com/RoguePOTUSStaff/status/1111387909150539777

The Republican party doesn't have anything near a rational majority - it is not a political party, it is a political terrorist group.

It has been completely captured by Trump's fascism - but Trumpist ideology in the Republican party has always been there - its ideology before Trump was nothing approaching rational either - it was kleptocratic, anti-democracy, anti-science and merely kept its inherent racism under a thin veil.

The only difference with Trump is the pretence is now gone.

everlast75

Danzy wrote: »

So the Russians made stations like CNN and MSNBC run daily takes and stories on Russia and the election.

They knew it was fantasy but the ratings were gold so they kept at it.

The Democrats knew it was a dead end but it gave them something to vent for 2 years and allowed them not to examine their own faults.

I'll bite.

The U.S. intelligence agencies confirmed Russia interfered. It happened!

Trump has only himself to blame for people thinking something nefarious was afoot. Senior members of his campaign were in contact with Russia and when asked, lied about it.

If a bike goes missing from my house, and I'm asked about it, and when I am I continually lie about it, it is ridiculous to suggest that people should not be suspicious.

If Trump wanted to torpedo MSNBC etc ratings, all he had to do was

1) get Flynn, Manafort etc to tell the truth
2) get donny Jr to tell the truth
3) ditto with Jared
4) sit down with Mueller
5) not take private meetings with putin
6) not destroy the interpreter's notes
7) not take Putin's side over the intelligence agencise when he said he didn't do anything

Its pure gaslighting to act shady and then call someone paranoid when they get suspicious.

And one again, this time with feeling, WE DO NOT KNOW what Mueller found or didn't find with respect to collusion. We are being asked to give the benefit of the doubt to a 4 page summation of an over 300 page report, with zero complete cited sentences by an AG handpicked by Trump and who auditioned for the role by telling trump he could not be guilty of obstruction pursuant to his executive powers.

Seriously, take a step back and honestly tell me that the Dems made this all up.

Danzy

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

It really is looking like 4 more years

It really does.

He has focused on peace and prosperity.

American voters hate foreign wars and poor job prospects.

They are always the 2 big deciders.

Add in the incumbent advantage.

Add in the Democratic Party running with the Russian media circus for 2 years, now a dead duck and splintering in to factions.

rossie1977

peddlelies wrote: »

You're right, he filled his administration with journalists instead.

Bill Shine, John Bolton, Heather Nauert, Mercedes Schlapp, Tony Sayegh, K.T. McFarland, Scott Brown, Richard Grenell, John D. McEntee, Georgette Mosbacher, Anthony Scaramucci were all hired by Trump due to their work on Fox networks.

Obama's administration regularly hammered Fox news, he snubbed people like Chris Wallace from open media sessions on healthcare etc.

Anita Dunn, who was then the White House director of communications, told the New York Times in an interview on Oct. 11, 2009, that Fox News was not a legitimate news organization.

“We’re going to treat them the way we would treat an opponent,” Dunn told the Times.

An organization which photoshop journalists to look like monsters and were involved in the Acorn undercover incident probably don't have much right to be called a legitimate news source.

Obama never went out of his way on a daily basis to call Fox News an enemy of the people. He undertook multiple interviews with Chris Wallace.

Fact is Obama spent a full year attempting to get Republicans on side with the healthcare bill while the media (not just Fox News but CNN and NY Times among others) hammered him and warned him not to attempt to pass a bill without full bi-partisanship...Trump and his team push a bill through overnight without anyone reading it or debate and media is relatively silent!!!

30% of Mexicans voted for Trump in the 2016 election, more black american's voted for Trump than Mitt Romney. Many European polls show only 20% of people have a positive opinion about the impact Islamic immigration has had on their countries( France, Belgium etc. ). There is problems with immigration. I'm not going to argue that Trump hasn't caused divisiveness because that would be idiotic but the Fascism talk isn't founded in any sort of reality.

28% of Latinos voted for Trump not 28% of Mexicans. Majority of Latino Americans who vote Republican are Cuban American not Mexican American.

More blacks Americans did vote Trump 8% vs 6%. Romney was running against a black candidate, Trump was not..

Quin_Dub

##Mod Note##

All,

Let's dial back on the "Terrorist" and "Fascist" stuff please.

I'm sure we can all make our points just as strongly without resorting to tired tropes and memes.

Thanks

SharpshooterTom

rossie1977 wrote: »

Not relevant to discussion but economy was doing similar in November 2016 in terms of unemployment and Dow jones rise. Of course national debt and budget deficit has seen big increases since then..

Yes but Trump administration has continued to lower the unemployment rate and the Dow Jones has increased from 19,800 when Obama left office to 25,700 today.

There were a lot of predictions prior to Trump taking office that this would not be the case after two years. Paul Krugman predicted the stock market to collapse completely as soon as Trump took office in January 2017.

He and many others then predicted a crash within 12 months after the GOP tax bill was passed in December 2017.

duploelabs

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yes but Trump administration has continued to lower the unemployment rate and the Dow Jones has increased from 19,800 when Obama left office to 25,700 today.

There were a lot of predictions prior to Trump taking office that this would not be the case after two years. Paul Krugman predicted the stock market to collapse completely as soon as Trump took office in January 2017.

He and many others then predicted a crash within 12 months after the GOP tax bill was passed in December 2017.

Dow Jones rise is credited to stock buy backs, most in part due to corporate tax cuts by tump.
How's that national debt doing?

Leroy42

duploelabs wrote: »

Dow Jones rise is credited to stock buy backs, most in part due to corporate tax cuts by tump.
How's that national debt doing?

That is all probably true, but people will only see that their investments have gone up and unemployment is gone down.

On the whole people don't bother themselves with the details, they assume those in power are in charge of that.

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is all probably true, but people will only see that their investments have gone up and unemployment is gone down.

On the whole people don't bother themselves with the details, they assume those in power are in charge of that.

Indeed - All the predictors are for a crash/slump on it's way , the only question is whether that hits before or after November 2020.

The early stages of it probably will be visible by then , but maybe not quite enough.

Whoever gets the nod for next Potus, Trump or otherwise is almost certainly going to have to try to deal with a fairly substantial slow-down.

Who would you prefer to have in charge in a depression , Trump or a Democrat?

duploelabs

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is all probably true, but people will only see that their investments have gone up and unemployment is gone down.

On the whole people don't bother themselves with the details, they assume those in power are in charge of that.

How many of those blue collar workers have investments?

Gbear

Haaaaannngggg on.

Labelling the Republican party as fasisct, or neo-fascist, or crypto-fascist, is not even remotely contentious anymore.

You have a party that is engaging in the same sort of gaslighting rhetoric and weaponised propaganda (albeit through more modern avenues) that we've seen throughout history to undermine public discourse, from what were or would go on to be dictatorial regimes, and they espouse the same romanticism of tradition and old forgotten ideas of ordered society, militarism, military-industrial policy, they use the same tactics of voter-suppression and intimidation, of promoting hate and division implicitly and then claiming ignorance and victimhood when they're blamed for radicalising violent murderers and thugs, they employ similar ethno-nationalist demagoguery to rile up the rank and file while they seem primarily interested in wholesale and unsubtle corruption to increase their power and wealth and diminish the strength of oversight.

You can maybe split hairs on an academic basis whether or not they're "true fascists" but they share so many characteristics that that's purely a semantic debate at this point.

Calling a spade a spade is not a tired meme.

This fascism is a core element of Trump's administration and the Republican party more broadly. You cannot separate it from the discussion.
It is no more a case of "name-calling" than it is to label AOC or Sanders socialist.

Calling Trump, for example, a Russian agent directly beholden to Putin is something that is objectionable, but there's no question that he and those that support him in government are working from the same totalitarian playbook.

Leroy42

duploelabs wrote: »

How many of those blue collar workers have investments?

No idea, but how many have jobs or know people who now have jobs? Their friends, family etc.

The point being that Trump is currently doing pretty well for both the wealthy (CT cuts and Stock market rises) and the less well off (jobs).

Neither will care too much about the workings behind the reasons. And this isn't just a US issue. It is the same in every democracy. The 2008 should have meant the GOP never got near the levers of power again, certainly not for a generation. But within 6 years they had the house and within 10 they had all 3.

Voters, and I am not saying this in any form of arrogance or pretending that I am better, are focused mainly on the present or near future, and to hell with long terms plans.

It is this very reason why Climate Change is such a troublesome issue. People don't want to suffer any pain now for something that may happen in the future (PS it will happen).

So, the signs are clearly there so the US economy to drop in the near future, but Trump needs only to get to November 2020 with a functioning (ie not declining) economy to get re-elected. Once in, he simply has to sit tight and set up his business plan for when he leaves office.