Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Christy42

Brian? wrote: »

Danzy wrote: »

Not much Socialist or social democratic about the Dutch model.

Significant problems in that model.

That Obamacate had so many problems, for all its good points, would be down to basing it on the Dutch model.

Significant benefits too. You know I live in the Netherlands and previously lived in the US?

The Dutch model is far from a socialist model, unless you’re a republican railing against Obamacare. This is my point.

Indeed. There was a reason Obamacare became popular when it looked like it would go. Republicans voted to destroy Obamacare many times. As soon as it wasn't just a case of hurling from the ditch and actually replacing it with something better they went to pieces till they just agreed to not talk about healthcare anymore.

It is an outstanding legacy for Obama (which Republicans kindly nicknamed after him:P). It has issues but it needs to be built on, not destroyed.

looksee

I know I have said this before, but the Republican attitude - at its mildest - was expressed by an acquaintance who was of the opinion that charity healthcare for 'poor people' was beneficial as it gave the donors opportunity to give! She also was inclined to make comments that were not aggressive but dangerously mild about 'our brown friends'. She considered herself to be a virtuous, loving, charitable Christian...

amandstu

looksee wrote: »

I know I have said this before, but the Republican attitude - at its mildest - was expressed by an acquaintance who was of the opinion that charity healthcare for 'poor people' was beneficial as it gave the donors opportunity to give! She also was inclined to make comments that were not aggressive but dangerously mild about 'our brown friends'. She considered herself to be a virtuous, loving, charitable Christian...

Yes it is easy to see that as patronizing but isn't that also the Hindu idea behind giving to the poor ?(it feeds their Kharma or Dharma ,whatever it is)

Giving to others is a good thing for both parties when it is not abused.

For example we should be giving to the non industrialized counties to help them adopt carbon free policies since they have not had the financial boost of the industrialized countries (who have also caused the problem in the main).

Penn

Barr in front of a Committee atm. Says he hopes to release the redacted report next week, but says Congress won't get the unredacted report.

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1115624021410942976

everlast75

The letter regarding the report provided Trump et al with the best possible headlines they could ever get and all points seem to indicate that Barr is playing defence for Trump.

That's not his role.

Nadler, if no one else, should see the entire report. He makes the call on whether to bring impeachment proceedings and he cannot fulfil his role and function if he cannot see the report.

It is an absolutely ludicrous situation.

Carry

This man, Trump, is so delusional that even after all his shenanigans over the years he still manages to make me speechless.
He previously accused Kirstjen Nielson not having been tough enough against the "caravan" of refugees, even after she was responsible in his administration and presumably under his orders for the parent-child-separations and putting kids in cages.
And now this:

Speaking in the Oval Office, Trump said he would not restart child separation at the border and blamed Obama for the policy

“Just so you understand, President Obama separated the children. Those cages that were shown--I think they were very inappropriate--were by President Obama’s administration not by Trump. President Obama had child separation,” the president said.

“Take a look. The press knows it. You know it. We all know it. I’m the one who stopped it. President Obama had child separation.”

Trump also said the policy was effective. “I’ll tell you something, once you don’t have it that’s why you have many more people coming. They are coming like it’s a picnic, like ‘let’s go to Disney Land.’ President Obama separated children. I was the one who that changed it.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/apr/09/trump-news-today-latest-live-updates-mueller-report-barr-dhs-iran-us-politics

He is definitely not right in the head and/or creates his own universe.
But I guess to the posters in this thread this is nothing new.

oscarBravo

Carry wrote: »

He is definitely not right in the head and/or creates his own universe.
But I guess to the posters in this thread this is nothing new.

Yup. I've said many, many times over the last few years that the man is clearly insane. Not in a name-calling sense; it has been obvious for a very long time that he's completely incapable of distinguishing what goes on inside his head from objective reality.

everlast75

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yup. I've said many, many times over the last few years that the man is clearly insane. Not in a name-calling sense; it has been obvious for a very long time that he's completely incapable of distinguishing what goes on inside his head from objective reality.

That, or else he knows exactly what he is doing and his followers don't care as they are part of his cult of personality.

I'd ask any of his defenders to support him on his refusal to disclose his taxes for example.

Midlife

everlast75 wrote: »

That, or else he knows exactly what he is doing and his followers don't care as they are part of his cult of personality.

I'd ask any of his defenders to support him on his refusal to disclose his taxes for example.

Because once it's shown that he's a liar who evaded paying his fair share, then the whole trurth, justice and the american way thing falls apart.

The most successful thing to counter the Don with is to point out that he is essentially un-American in his values. That's the only thing that will get at his core support.

The values he lives are anti-american, despite what he says.

everlast75

Midlife wrote: »

Because once it's shown that he's a liar who evaded paying his fair share, then the whole trurth, justice and the american way thing falls apart.

The most successful thing to counter the Don with is to point out that he is essentially un-American in his values. That's the only thing that will get at his core support.

The values he lives are anti-american, despite what he says.

Even Nixon released his...

looksee

amandstu wrote: »

Yes it is easy to see that as patronizing but isn't that also the Hindu idea behind giving to the poor ?(it feeds their Kharma or Dharma ,whatever it is)

Giving to others is a good thing for both parties when it is not abused.

For example we should be giving to the non industrialized counties to help them adopt carbon free policies since they have not had the financial boost of the industrialized countries (who have also caused the problem in the main).

That's all well and fine, how do the poor people's karmas get fed?

No, health care should not be a charitable gift, it should be a right within a society/country.

The point about giving money to other countries is not the same (maybe it should be, now I think of it, but it would have to be a one-world order with all countries having the same structure, not the most desirable situation I think).

Gbear

Carry wrote: »

This man, Trump, is so delusional that even after all his shenanigans over the years he still manages to make me speechless.
He previously accused Kirstjen Nielson not having been tough enough against the "caravan" of refugees, even after she was responsible in his administration and presumably under his orders for the parent-child-separations and putting kids in cages.
And now this:




https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/apr/09/trump-news-today-latest-live-updates-mueller-report-barr-dhs-iran-us-politics

He is definitely not right in the head and/or creates his own universe.
But I guess to the posters in this thread this is nothing new.

Thats just so textbook Stalinist, Orwellian Ministry of Truth stuff that it's hard to understand how we've gotten here.
I'm not sure if it's more or less disturbing to think that we can't know whether Trump is even lying or not - he might actually believe this.

amandstu

looksee wrote: »

That's all well and fine, how do the poor people's karmas get fed?

No, health care should not be a charitable gift, it should be a right within a society/country.

The point about giving money to other countries is not the same (maybe it should be, now I think of it, but it would have to be a one-world order with all countries having the same structure, not the most desirable situation I think).

They are not mutually exclusive ,although when people can get
charitable offerings from private groups it does give the State a reason (or an excuse ?) to provide less.

For inter country solidarity wrt climate change I was just thinking perhaps that less should be expected from some counties than others (Is that not built into the Paris accord?)

1eg0a3xv7b82of

So much is coming out now
Trump could not play this better and there is a very good chance a lot of democrat lifers like Brennan and comey will see jail time

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-vows-to-release-fisa-docs-now-that-mueller-probe-is-concluded-slams-treasonous-fbi

Itssoeasy

everlast75 wrote: »

Midlife wrote: »

Because once it's shown that he's a liar who evaded paying his fair share, then the whole trurth, justice and the american way thing falls apart.

The most successful thing to counter the Don with is to point out that he is essentially un-American in his values. That's the only thing that will get at his core support.

The values he lives are anti-american, despite what he says.

Even Nixon released his...

The Nixon presidential library must secretly loving Trump as president as it’s making Nixon look way better than he’s remembered as being.

SeamusFX

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

So much is coming out now
Trump could not play this better and there is a very good chance a lot of democrat lifers like Brennan and comey will see jail time

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-vows-to-release-fisa-docs-now-that-mueller-probe-is-concluded-slams-treasonous-fbi

Thanks for the laugh, just like when Trump said he was going to release the Mueller Report or when he said he’d release his taxes!

1eg0a3xv7b82of

SeamusFX wrote: »

Thanks for the laugh, just like when Trump said he was going to release the Mueller Report or when he said he’d release his taxes!

The mueller report will be released and trump is under audit so he cannot release his tax returns.
It’s easy for career politicians like Obama and et al to release their tax returns but trump is a billionaire and his tax returns are more complicated

batgoat

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

The mueller report will be released and trump is under audit so he cannot release his tax returns.
It’s easy for career politicians like Obama and et al to release their tax returns but trump is a billionaire and his tax returns are more complicated

It is perfectly legal for Trump to release his tax returns while being audited... Dunno how anyone could still push the notion that being audited prevents their release.

SeamusFX

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

The mueller report will be released and trump is under audit so he cannot release his tax returns.
It’s easy for career politicians like Obama and et al to release their tax returns but trump is a billionaire and his tax returns are more complicated

When the Mueller Report is released, half of it will be covered in Tipp-ex (white-out) and the Democrats will have to fight Liar and hypocrites Trump and Barr just for that. As for the fake Billionaire, he’s been claiming he’s under audit for 3 years now and even the IRS has said an audit wouldn’t stop him from releasing his returns. Do you really believe all of his lies? Plus do you think he’s still under audit, now that he’s appointed his boys in charge of the IRS?

Danzy

Brian? wrote: »

Significant benefits too. You know I live in the Netherlands and previously lived in the US?

The Dutch model is far from a socialist model, unless you’re a republican railing against Obamacare. This is my point.

My line about it being far from a socialist model seems to have skipped you.

It is a way more cut throat model than here and very ineffective.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

batgoat wrote: »

It is perfectly legal for Trump to release his tax returns while being audited... Dunno how anyone could still push the notion that being audited prevents their release.

It is legal but would be a bad move for trump. By releasing the tax returns the IRS could use this against him
when the irs have finished their audit and an agreement reached between trumps lawyers then

Professor Moriarty

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

It is legal but would be a bad move for trump. By releasing the tax returns the IRS could use this against him
when the irs have finished their audit and an agreement reached between trumps lawyers then

If his tax affairs are in order then the IRS can't use them against him. If the IRS finish their audit and he has to make an agreement with the IRS then he is a cheat. And all the good old boys who voted for Trump will have been spat on yet again by Trump. But they are too stupid to understand, so they will cheer him at his rallies as he and his ilk make sure there isn't enough public money to pay for their grandmother's heart bypass. MAGA.

relax carry on

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

It is legal but would be a bad move for trump. By releasing the tax returns the IRS could use this against him
when the irs have finished their audit and an agreement reached between trumps lawyers then

Wouldn't the IRS already have his tax returns on record? How would releasing his tax returns allow the IRS to use something it already has against Trump?

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If his tax affairs are in order then the IRS can't use them against him. If the IRS finish their audit and he has to make an agreement with the IRS then he is a cheat. And all the good old boys who voted for Trump will have been spat on yet again by Trump. But they are too stupid to understand, so they will cheer him at his rallies as he and his ilk make sure there isn't enough public money to pay for their grandmother's heart bypass. MAGA.

The tax affairs of a global business are a lot more complicated then most posters here understand or will admit
I know of businesses in Ireland where revenue are constantly queuing and challenging vat returns. The turnover is that high

As for trump he has many employees who deal with finance. Errors happen and trump as head of a global business cannot personally check everything

If trump released his tax returns to the public you can sure the irs would then find errors and this would be all would here

Professor Moriarty

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

The tax affairs of a global business are a lot more complicated then most posters here understand or will admit
I know of businesses in Ireland where revenue are constantly queuing and challenging vat returns. The turnover is that high

As for trump he has many employees who deal with finance. Errors happen and trump as head of a global business cannot personally check everything

If trump released his tax returns to the public you can sure the irs would then find errors and this would be all would here

Yeah. With respect, that's rubbish. Trump could release all records of his tax affairs tomorrow morning. Similarly, the idea that we shouldn't blame Trump for 'errors' in his taxes is ludicrous. They are his taxes so he is responsible. If he is CEO then the buck stops with him. Period. He just needs to release his taxes so that any doubt is cleared up. But he won't because he's a serial tax dodger.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah. With respect, that's rubbish. Trump could release all records of his tax affairs tomorrow morning. Similarly, the idea that we shouldn't blame Trump for 'errors' in his taxes is ludicrous. They are his taxes so he is responsible. If he is CEO then the buck stops with him. Period. He just needs to release his taxes so that any doubt is cleared up. But he won't because he's a serial tax dodger.

Incorrect
When the irs audit is finished then he can and will.
Trump is just following the correct advice
Of his tax lawyers and accountants
It would be the same advice I would give

DreamsBurnDown

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah. With respect, that's rubbish. Trump could release all records of his tax affairs tomorrow morning. Similarly, the idea that we shouldn't blame Trump for 'errors' in his taxes is ludicrous. They are his taxes so he is responsible. If he is CEO then the buck stops with him. Period. He just needs to release his taxes so that any doubt is cleared up. But he won't because he's a serial tax dodger.

If Trump were a serial tax dodger (as in evading taxes), the IRS would have nailed him long ago, just like they nail thousands of tax dodgers every year. Like any extremely wealthy person in the US, he has an army of accountants who make sure he stays within the IRS code while avoiding paying more tax than he has to. Nothing ethical about it, but it is (sadly) very American.

Larbre34

The difficulty for Trump and his taxes, is that he bemoans US companies not repatriating wealth and minimising their own tax exposure overseas, in places like Ireland, but if his returns come out and, though probably legal, show a pattern of avoidance, its as bad for him politically as if he had evaded the IRS.

Not that he is one to care about optics.

everlast75

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

Incorrect
When the irs audit is finished then he can and will.
Trump is just following the correct advice
Of his tax lawyers and accountants
It would be the same advice I would give

How do you know he is under audit?

everlast75

Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »

The tax affairs of a global business are a lot more complicated then most posters here understand or will admit
I know of businesses in Ireland where revenue are constantly queuing and challenging vat returns. The turnover is that high

As for trump he has many employees who deal with finance. Errors happen and trump as head of a global business cannot personally check everything

If trump released his tax returns to the public you can sure the irs would then find errors and this would be all would here

Too complicated for the IRS to understand? Lol

And by the way, any person who make errors in their taxes is subject to penalties. Why should trump be any different to the rest of the U.S. population? Its the law. Should the law not apply to him?

And if there are errors, surely a man of trump's "wealth" can afford to pay it?