Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

mcmoustache

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine a world without Trump or Brexit.. Jesus, what would we be talking about I wonder.

I'm really hoping for a quiet decade in politics soon.

Same. Ideally, politics would be boring. I don't really like these drastic changes to the international status quo. Whatever's wrong with it can't be fixed by just ripping it all up. If it's to be fixed, it won't be by leadership that stumbles into one self-created crisis after the next.

jochenstacker

mcmoustache wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Same. Ideally, politics would be boring. I don't really like these drastic changes to the international status quo. Whatever's wrong with it can't be fixed by just ripping it all up. If it's to be fixed, it won't be by leadership that stumbles into one self-created crisis after the next.

One can't help but think that all this political drama is a because of reality TV.
The average oik can't concentrate for more than 30 seconds, so what is really happening behind the scenes has to be camouflaged by a lot of made for TV drama.
This is to get people to vote who wouldn't normally vote.
Sadly a positive message doesn't seem to work, so it has to be fought at tabloid level, so the Stella brigade comes out in force.

duploelabs

jochenstacker wrote: »

mcmoustache wrote: »

One can't help but think that all this political drama is a because of reality TV.
The average oik can't concentrate for more than 30 seconds, so what is really happening behind the scenes has to be camouflaged by a lot of made for TV drama.
This is to get people to vote who wouldn't normally vote.
Sadly a positive message doesn't seem to work, so it has to be fought at tabloid level, so the Stella brigade comes out in force.

Welcome to politics for the WWE generation (unfortunately)

rossie1977

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I can't see the world of politics settling down anytime soon, wouldn't surprise me if it continues to become more unstable

I am pretty sure nothing happened the last time a number of powerful nations had autocratic leaders in place.

Yes next decade is going to be interesting with plenty of fireworks

Cheerful Spring

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I can't see the world of politics settling down anytime soon, wouldn't surprise me if it continues to become more unstable

Trump and Pompeo and other neocons have just announced they will sanction any country who buys Iranian oil. They are trying to start a new conflict in the Middle East. They also designated the Iranian army a terrorist group. This will give them a green light to target Iranian generals and Iranian facilities in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, even Iraq if necessary. We have learned nothing from WMD affair and going to be bloody mess if they start a war with Iran.

Trump in bed with Saudi Arabia and Israel and they drag everyone in

BloodBath

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Trump and Pompeo and other neocons have just announced they will sanction any country who buys Iranian oil. They are trying to start a new conflict in the Middle East. They also designated the Iranian army a terrorist group. This will give them a green light to target Iranian generals and Iranian facilities in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, even Iraq if necessary. We have learned nothing from WMD affair and going to be bloody mess if they start a war with Iran.

Trump in bed with Saudi Arabia and Israel and they drag everyone in

The US has been in bed with them for decades. This would have happened regardless of who was president.

eire4

BloodBath wrote: »

The US has been in bed with them for decades. This would have happened regardless of who was president.

That is a fair point. The US has been turning a blind eye with regard to Saudi Arabia for a long time now and equally so with Israel. The only difference now is maybe the US turning a blind eye with the Saudi's may be more directly about the personal finances of the president and his son in law.

I did say years ago that one good thing about Trump would be a huge focus on what the US already does no matter who is the President.

everlast75

BloodBath wrote: »

The US has been in bed with them for decades. This would have happened regardless of who was president.

Were things not going well with the Iranian nuclear deal?

Cheerful Spring

BloodBath wrote: »

The US has been in bed with them for decades. This would have happened regardless of who was president.

True, but its Trump who is upping the ante.

Trump has recognised Israel ownership of the Golan Heights in Syria. This territory is recognised by the International community as belonging to Syria.

He recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Isreal. This is unacceptable to even moderate Middle Eastern states and kingdoms.

He pulled out of the Iranian deal that was brokered between multiple countries, including Russia and China.

He ignored the Saudis ordering the murder of a journalist.

Trump vetoed a congress resolution declaring they no longer will support Saudi Arabia war against Yemen and its people. He sided with Saudi Arabia and ignored the will of congress and the people they represent.

He sanctioning Iran for Israel and yet they are ones carrying out airstrikes in Syria- 210 air strikes since 2015. Iran has not attacked Israel. They claim they are terrorists, but the only country attacking is Israel.

They now listing the Iranian army a terrorist organisation- don't think any American president before this listed a country army as terrorists and there also threatening to sanaction any country that buys Iranian oil, this includes China and Russia.

Cheerful Spring

eire4 wrote: »

That is a fair point. The US has been turning a blind eye with regard to Saudi Arabia for a long time now and equally so with Israel. The only difference now is maybe the US turning a blind eye with the Saudi's may be more directly about the personal finances of the president and his son in law.

Yep spot on the donors are influencing the President and his crew of neocons. And they money flowing in from the Saudi Arabia and UAE and Jewish lobby in America.

We just one short step away from war with Iran now. If they attempt to stop Iranians moving oil through the strait of Hormuz then it will hit the fan.

Americans are threatening to watch where the oil is going and then sanction the countries who buy it.

Igotadose

Herman Cain won't be on the Fed board. Thank goodness a few tGOP'ers aren't completely batsh*t crazy and urged Trumpy to not put him on the board.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/herman-cain-withdraws-fed-reserve-board_n_5cafeec0e4b0ffefe3ae06da

Of course, there are plenty of bottom scrapers out there Trump can choose from. Hey, put Ron Paul on the Fed Board. That'd be amusing, in a global-economic-meltdown kind of way.

Stephen Moore's still in the running, unfortunately.

DreamsBurnDown

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/us/politics/pelosi-trump-impeachment.html

Sounds like House Democrats are not going to pursue impeachment, at least for now. The way forward suggested by Nancy Pelosi is continued investigations and hearings.

everlast75

DreamsBurnDown wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/us/politics/pelosi-trump-impeachment.html

Sounds like House Democrats are not going to pursue impeachment, at least for now. The way forward suggested by Nancy Pelosi is continued investigations and hearings.

The latter is the natural precursor to the former.

It makes sound strategic sense to further the investigations while not taking impeachment off the table, which will satisfy those who demanded impeachment while also appearing to please those that urged caution, or were eve against the process at all.

Incidentally, this should have been their message from the moment the redacted report was released. It was quite naive to be sending mixed messages in its aftermath and not one definitive line.

Kermit.de.frog

DreamsBurnDown wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/us/politics/pelosi-trump-impeachment.html

Sounds like House Democrats are not going to pursue impeachment, at least for now. The way forward suggested by Nancy Pelosi is continued investigations and hearings.

Little point now to be honest because the election is around the corner and regardless Trump will go down in the history books for what he is - the most moronic president in US history.

No point wasting the effort on him at this stage.

Gbear

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Little point now to be honest because the election is around the corner and regardless Trump will go down in the history books for what he is - the most moronic president in US history.

No point wasting the effort on him at this stage.

If they want to prevent it happening again they need to find the holes and plug them.

I wonder will this period be looked back on in a couple of hundred years a bit like if there was some mad Emperor of China who made a chicken his heir.

Itssoeasy

I can see why the dems are not all united in impeachment. In 230 years of the presidency of the US there have only ever been two presidents impeached and another would have been had he not resigned. The two impeachment trials were in 1868 and 1998 so over a hundred years apart. My point is it's not something that has been used lightly and it shouldn't be either. Chief justice William Rehnquist basically said as much after the Clinton impeachment trial.

And, if the dems want Trump out of office there is a simple way that involves the people of the United States and it's called an election.

hill16bhoy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Little point now to be honest because the election is around the corner and regardless Trump will go down in the history books for what he is - the most moronic president in US history.

No point wasting the effort on him at this stage.

The US holds elections every two years.

The last one was five and a half months ago.

By that rationale there's always an election around the corner.

It's so quaint and twee that people are still talking as if this presidency bears any relation whatsoever to normality.

If a crypto-fascist president commits clearly impeachable offences (the Mueller report all but called for impeachment) and gets away with it because the Democrats are too chicken to hold him to account, or because of some deluded notion that they're playing "4D chess" or something (they aren't), democratic politics ceases to have any meaning.

You only embolden the crypto-fascist.

Elizabeth Warren has been on the money on this. Give me a politician who has actual principles any day over a gutless one playing makey up "strategy" bullshlt.

Calina

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I can see why the dems are not all united in impeachment. In 230 years of the presidency of the US there have only ever been two presidents impeached and another would have been had he not resigned. The two impeachment trials were in 1868 and 1998 so over a hundred years apart. My point is it's not something that has been used lightly and it shouldn't be either. Chief justice William Rehnquist basically said as much after the Clinton impeachment trial.

And, if the dems want Trump out of office there is a simple way that involves the people of the United States and it's called an election.

Clinton's was used lightly. You cannot compare the Trump case to that.

Wanderer78

Itssoeasy wrote:

And, if the dems want Trump out of office there is a simple way that involves the people of the United States and it's called an election.

Elections can sometimes be successful at doing so, but democracy is probably needed to achieve this

Christy42

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I can see why the dems are not all united in impeachment. In 230 years of the presidency of the US there have only ever been two presidents impeached and another would have been had he not resigned. The two impeachment trials were in 1868 and 1998 so over a hundred years apart. My point is it's not something that has been used lightly and it shouldn't be either. Chief justice William Rehnquist basically said as much after the Clinton impeachment trial.

And, if the dems want Trump out of office there is a simple way that involves the people of the United States and it's called an election.

I imagine it is just impeachment is never going to work with Republicans controlling the senate.

It does seem quaint that the Republicans went for one largely over an affair (well lying over an affair). If there are two things we are sure of with Trump it is lies and that he has had affairs.

everlast75

Christy42 wrote: »

I imagine it is just impeachment is never going to work with Republicans controlling the senate.

Oh I don't know.

We have Lindsey Graham, a prominent Republican, who will no doubt have a huge issue with Trump, given his comments below..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaBBsvuCbU4

EltonJohn69

He is really kicking off on Twitter this morning.... should be an interesting week

derb12

Trump set for a uk state visit in June.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48020410
Just what the doctor ordered to calm things down wrt brexit and to give the impression that it’s all business as usual now that that pesky mueller report episode is over!
Let’s just hope that he doesn’t decide to tag on side trip over here!

Itssoeasy

Calina wrote: »

Clinton's was used lightly. You cannot compare the Trump case to that.

How was it used lightly when it came to Clinton ? He lied under oath to a grand jury about the nature of his relationship with Monica lewinsky. That's perjury and even given the IMO vague " high crimes and misdemeanours" standard for impeachment, bill Clinton was guilty. Trump has surpassed Clinton many times over, the only thing different is Trumps lawyers are clever enough to not let trump say anything under oath because as we see in his daily utterances, he lies constantly, sometimes contradicting himself within the same breath.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Please don't just post one-liners and tweets please. This is a forum for serious discussion.

everlast75

Given his crazier than usual twitter feed of late, it appears clear to me that he is aware no one is buying the BS trump is selling with his "complete exoneration" line.

His ratings (which he values more over anything else) taking a drop after the redacted report was released, he is on the offensive.

He knows that a large section of the US will never read the report and that an impeachment conviction may not ever be a reality, but the process of getting all of the main players to testify before the Court will be devastating to his image and there is very little he can do to stop that.

He is fighting congress as best he can by defying subpoenas. More obstruction. More shady behaviour. More bad headlines for him.

The scales are only going one way for him.

EltonJohn69

He needs to divert attention from the report, so more crazy tweet storms ? Maybe some stunt at the border ? Stop Obama care ? Something alarming is en route home suspect

DreamsBurnDown

everlast75 wrote: »

He knows that a large section of the US will never read the report and that an impeachment conviction may not ever be a reality, but the process of getting all of the main players to testify before the Court will be devastating to his image and there is very little he can do to stop that.

That's why the decision by House Democrats not to impeach at this time is the right one. Much better to keep going with a continuous series of hearings, have Mueller testify, go after all the underlying evidence, go after his taxes, etc. A steady drip drip will be more effective.

It's easy for presidential candidates like Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris to call for impeachment, they are not in the House and are building their image of being strong candidates. Even Harrris admitted that Democrats have to be realistic as there is likely zero change Trump would be convicted by the Senate.

BloodBath

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

True, but its Trump who is upping the ante.

Trump has recognised Israel ownership of the Golan Heights in Syria. This territory is recognised by the International community as belonging to Syria.

He recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Isreal. This is unacceptable to even moderate Middle Eastern states and kingdoms.

He pulled out of the Iranian deal that was brokered between multiple countries, including Russia and China.

He ignored the Saudis ordering the murder of a journalist.

Trump vetoed a congress resolution declaring they no longer will support Saudi Arabia war against Yemen and its people. He sided with Saudi Arabia and ignored the will of congress and the people they represent.

He sanctioning Iran for Israel and yet they are ones carrying out airstrikes in Syria- 210 air strikes since 2015. Iran has not attacked Israel. They claim they are terrorists, but the only country attacking is Israel.

They now listing the Iranian army a terrorist organisation- don't think any American president before this listed a country army as terrorists and there also threatening to sanaction any country that buys Iranian oil, this includes China and Russia.

That is a fair point but I think this is a process that would have happened regardless. Israel have had intentions of expanding theirs borders for a long time. It seems the republicans are the ones who end up pushing their agenda more.

The whole world has ignored US and Israeli war crimes for decades. It seems it's the US who decides who get's sanctioned or not. Who get's to sanction them or their allies for their war crimes?

He ignored the Saudis murdering a journalist is nothing. Both previous presidents ignored the Saudis orchestrating and funding 9/11 while targeting 2 innocent countries under false pretences.

It's easy to blame Trump for all of this. That's exactly what they want you to do. Focus on the puppet leader while the people behind the scenes pulling the strings are ignored.