Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Eric Cartman

BloodBath wrote: »

That is a fair point but I think this is a process that would have happened regardless. Israel have had intentions of expanding theirs borders for a long time. It seems the republicans are the ones who end up pushing their agenda more.

The whole world has ignored US and Israeli war crimes for decades. It seems it's the US who decides who get's sanctioned or not. Who get's to sanction them or their allies for their war crimes?

He ignored the Saudis murdering a journalist is nothing. Both previous presidents ignored the Saudis orchestrating and funding 9/11 while targeting 2 innocent countries under false pretences.

It's easy to blame Trump for all of this. That's exactly what they want you to do. Focus on the puppet leader while the people behind the scenes pulling the strings are ignored.

+1

Regardless of who is in power , GOP/Dem Trump/Clinton/Obama/Sanders etc... money would still be going to israel, the veto would still be used to not sanction or condemn them. Obviously we can fault trump for the Jerusalem move and the golan heights statement but sadly , being anti-israel in US politics is a death sentence

BloodBath

Eric Cartman wrote: »

+1

Regardless of who is in power , GOP/Dem Trump/Clinton/Obama/Sanders etc... money would still be going to israel, the veto would still be used to not sanction or condemn them. Obviously we can fault trump for the Jerusalem move and the golan heights statement but sadly , being anti-israel in US politics is a death sentence

It's funny in a way. The same people will claim Trump is a puppet of Putin. Explain this attack on Iran then. A close ally of the Russians.

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaBBsvuCbU4

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1120711437012410368?s=19

The transformation is nothing short of miraculous.

This is complete BS and he should be played this video ala Ted Lieu and Candace Owens anytime he is interviewed.

Don't ask any questions as to why. He'll just smile and do that southern "awh schucks, he just done grow on me is all" routine. Play him the tape... while channelling Ted's facial expression too.

Midlife

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1120711437012410368?s=19

The transformation is nothing short of miraculous.

This is complete BS and he should be played this video ala Ted Lieu and Candace Owens anytime he is interviewed.

Don't ask any questions as to why. He'll just smile and do that southern "awh schucks, he just done grow on me is all" routine. Play him the tape... while channelling Ted's facial expression too.

Really interesting article here quoting serving republician senators on the impeachment of clinton back in the day.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/20/mueller-report-impeachment-obstruction-bill-clinton-republicans

It really shows up how duplicitious US politics are.

For so many in power there is no absolute right or wrong. It's just what your next move is.

EltonJohn69

Trumps tweets storm should be kicking off any moment

EltonJohn69

First tweet of the day and he is accusing the UK of helping Obama spy on him !
He has started strong today

EltonJohn69

As predicted “armed troops” are off to the Mexican border... Trump going full distraction mode

everlast75

Ah, the caravan! Isn't it amazing how it appears at the most opportune moments in time for 45?

He is like the kid in the class whose is desperate for attention but his only trick is the armpit fart noise. Its works on the juvenile and stupid kids, but only for a while.

Time to get another trick, Donny.

amandstu

If Trump is successful in preventing people complying with Congress requests for information and subpoenas what can Congress do?

Do Congress' demands have the full force of law?

Will the Republicans stand behind the President encouraging people to disobey Congress' instructions?

oscarBravo

amandstu wrote: »

If Trump is successful in preventing people complying with Congress requests for information and subpoenas what can Congress do?

Take it to the Supreme Court, which explains why the single most important and scary legacy of this presidency (and Mitch McConnell's disgraceful tenure) is the stacking of the Court.

ECO_Mental

amandstu wrote: »

If Trump is successful in preventing people complying with Congress requests for information and subpoenas what can Congress do?

Do Congress' demands have the full force of law?

Will the Republicans stand behind the President encouraging people to disobey Congress' instructions?

Congress has subpoena powers, so Im thinking if someone doesn't obey a subpoena then they have to spend a little time in a small room to have a think about it.....thats what is going to have to happen. The GOP pushed for this subpoena powers so they are going to have to live by it now.

Leroy42

ECO_Mental wrote: »

CThe GOP pushed for this subpoena powers so they are going to have to live by it now.

You haven't been paying too much attention to the GOP if that is what you think.

The GOP are more than happy to change whatever rules to suit whatever it is that they want. Precedent etc mean nothing.

Take the obvious example of the national debt. After spending years claiming Obama was the terrible for failing to rein it in, they have whooped and cheered as Trump has blown it out of the water and created serious problems for the future.

jjpep

Christ but that Twitter account is something to behold. Is he really saying that there the Mexican army was threatening the US? Is he looking to start a war?

Stallingrad

jjpep wrote: »

Christ but that Twitter account is something to behold. Is he really saying that there the Mexican army was threatening the US? Is he looking to start a war?

As a non Twitter person just had a quick look. Christ, what a sh!t show, won't be doing that again, does that dimwit do any work at all? If I spent that much time Tweeting nonsense I'd be fired.

amandstu

Stallingrad wrote: »

As a non Twitter person just had a quick look. Christ, what a sh!t show, won't be doing that again, does that dimwit do any work at all? If I spent that much time Tweeting nonsense I'd be fired.

It is called execrable time:)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/07/executive-time-donald-trump-white-house

Igotadose

Impressive. A Trump transition team member and lifelong GOP stalwart, one-time Romney (2012) pre-transition team member, has called for impeachment. He makes good points - Trump's behavior might readily have caused Mueller's investigation to stall because of Trump's nefarious activities (offering pardons if people lied, stuff like that.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/gop-staffer-advocates-trumps-impeachment/587785/

Itssoeasy

jjpep wrote: »

Christ but that Twitter account is something to behold. Is he really saying that there the Mexican army was threatening the US? Is he looking to start a war?

I stopped following him as it at times made my head hurt. It's just complete rambling.

duploelabs

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeach-supreme-court-tweet-congress-mueller-report-democrats-a8884241.html

Um, no Donald, that's not how it works

everlast75

duploelabs wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeach-supreme-court-tweet-congress-mueller-report-democrats-a8884241.html

Um, no Donald, that's not how it works

For someone who says he isn't worried about impeachment, he certainly seems rattled now.

I wonder if any Trump supporters here (if there are any left) remain of the view that impeachment would "help" Trump

Eric Cartman

everlast75 wrote: »

For someone who says he isn't worried about impeachment, he certainly seems rattled now.

I wonder if any Trump supporters here (if there are any left) remain of the view that impeachment would "help" Trump

Where has anyone thought this, both here and in the outside world. That idea just seems a bit too mad.

everlast75

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Where has anyone thought this, both here and in the outside world. That idea just seems a bit too mad.

That is the whole argument against impeachment?!? That he would survive and it would give him a boost, as per Clinton.

peddlelies

There's zero chance he'll be impeached over the Mueller report, it was a dud no matter how the Dem's and media types want to spin it. Dem's aren't stupid, they'd need bi-partisan support.

If they ever get hold of his taxes or the Trump org finance history that might change things a bit.

Leroy42

Mueller report was far from a dud. In any normal system it would see the PM, POTUS or whatever resign.

But Trump is saved because the GOO see Trump as their saving grace. They are losing support, America is becoming more liberal and Trump has awoken the conservatives to latch onto this new saviour. It doesn't really matter what he does, once immigrants, LGBT etc are blamed.

That Trump has still said nothing about the now, incontrovertible, fact that Russia attempted and had some success in meddling in the US democratic system tells you all you need to know about where Trump and the GOP is focused.

Not a word about extra sanctions. Not a word of condemnation of Putin lying to Trump. Not a word about Trump demanding Russia hand over those responsible.

That, regardless of how one feels about Trump, what one thinks about his tweeting or attempts at obstruction, his total and complete failure to stand up for a country he claims to love and want to protect should be the nail in his coffin.

So a dud only in terms of not being the complete QED that many people would demand before even considering the wider position.

looksee

peddlelies wrote: »

If they ever get hold of his taxes or the Trump org finance history that might change things a bit.

Making progress apparently - https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/24/politics/deutsche-bank-trump-records/index.html

Deutsche bank preparing to hand over records.

mcmoustache

peddlelies wrote: »

it was a dud no matter how the Dem's and media types want to spin it. Dem's aren't stupid, they'd need bi-partisan support.

Wow. That's certainly an interesting way to look at things, to put it politely.


I'd obviously be wasting my time pointing out Trump's activities that would have caused Republicans to go mental had Obama partaken in them so I won't bother but you're a brave man acceopting Trump's version of reality against that of legal experts. Trump's lies keep getting exposed, often by himself, but this time it'll be different? Good luck and I look forward to your next username.

KyussB

Just for a laugh, lets see those condemning Trump for allowing Russian meddling to happen, also condemn Obama for allowing it to happen:
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/19/opinions/mueller-report-obama-jennings/index.html

So Obama knew about the Russian meddling, and let it happen and grow in the runup to the 2016 elections - where's the blame directed at him?

The goalpost shifting (and shifting to come...) is just sad. Instead of public discussion moving on and becoming more coherent, now that years worth of lies have been exposed - it's just the usual "Democrat Good, Republican Bad" tribalism nonsense.

DreamsBurnDown

So after Mnuchin earlier saying the White House would consider the House request for tax returns, the request has now been flatly rejected, no financial documents will be turned over. In addition, the White House has instructed a former employee not to comply with a subpoena regarding security clearances. I think it's pretty obvious now that Trump wants full on war with Democrats until the 2020 election and probably wants them to initiate impeachment proceedings. Which would be defeated in the Senate and he can declare victory.

MadYaker

KyussB wrote: »

Just for a laugh, lets see those condemning Trump for allowing Russian meddling to happen, also condemn Obama for allowing it to happen:
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/19/opinions/mueller-report-obama-jennings/index.html

So Obama knew about the Russian meddling, and let it happen and grow in the runup to the 2016 elections - where's the blame directed at him?

The goalpost shifting (and shifting to come...) is just sad. Instead of public discussion moving on and becoming more coherent, now that years worth of lies have been exposed - it's just the usual "Democrat Good, Republican Bad" tribalism nonsense.

Clearly an article with a lot of spin from a very biased journalist. This situation surrounding Russian interference in the 2016 is complicated and we only have a small amount of the info but you should read this article and see what you think. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/23/mitch-mcconnell-russia-obama-joe-biden-359531

It seems to me that while Obama and Biden had some idea about Russian meddling, they didn't kow the full extent until after the election. They also didn't want to get involved in an election that had nothing to do with them. But shouting about russian intereference from the rooftops that could be seen to be bringing the electoral process into disrepute. If you read the article I posted you'll see that they did in fact ry to do something about, but felt they could only do so if it was a bipartisan move.

Another point worth noting in regard to Russian interference is that Trump has literally not even mentioned this huge issue since the mueller report came out (which confirmed that the russians had some success in their interference) It seems odd to me that you criticise obama for doing nothing at the time (which is isn't even an accurate criticism) and yet here we are with russian inteference confirmed and Trump appears to be doing even less than Obama, wheres your criticism of him?

KyussB

No that's not clear actually, can you elaborate?

The article you link starts with a claim debunked by the article I linked - regarding McConnell.

The general thrust of the article - that Obama worried about the impact on US democracy, of not doing more about Russia's attempts at interfering with US democracy - is inherently contradictory and makes zero sense.

I didn't criticize Trump or Obama - so I don't have to match-up my criticisms between the two, to avoid hypocrisy - I'm pointing out others hypocrisy/tribalism, and the general low quality of discussion and low signal to noise ratio.

MadYaker

Just read that article by CNN again and its piss poor. Makes no mention of Mitch McConnell refusing to engage with Obama and Biden in order to make a bipartisan effort to make people aware of what was happening. No surprise the guy who wrote the article is a life long republican and George dubya Bush advisor, the second dumbest president in the history of america.

Apart from your CNN article that links a letter with no context I can't find anything that debunks the claims by Joe Biden that McConnell refused to sign the letter. It seems to me there are two different letters. One he signed and the other he didn't.

Could Obama have done more? Probably. We don't know how much he knew, maybe heavier sanctions could have been justified but if I was reaching the end of my term and the election to appoint my successor was in full swing im not sure id announce massive sanctions on anyone unless it was absolutely necessary. Id probably do what Obama and Biden tried to do and try to get the republicans on side so so they couldn't be accused of attempting to interfere in the elction.