Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

listermint

It's a disgusting indictment of America that a single individual in Bolton can dictate entire foreign policy and reverse years of normal peace talks with Iran.

Hillary was heralded for being a war mongerer even on this forum by posters that pretended to leave but are still around

Bolton is the complete definition of one. I don't know his reasons though..why iran. Is it Iran or is the big dollars that can be generated from such a war. There has to be an origin. And it's certainly nothing to do with the made up stats on terrorism and state sponsorship

everlast75

listermint wrote: »

It's a disgusting indictment of America that a single individual in Bolton can dictate entire foreign policy and reverse years of normal peace talks with Iran.

Hillary was heralded for being a war mongerer even on this forum by posters that pretended to leave but are still around

Bolton is the complete definition of one. I don't know his reasons though..why iran. Is it Iran or is the big dollars that can be generated from such a war. There has to be an origin. And it's certainly nothing to do with the made up stats on terrorism and state sponsorship

Worse still is that there was an Iran deal. Intelligence services said they were complying.

Trump strolls in, upturns the table and then says he will fix it.

Things would be better if he didn't **** things up in the first place.

listermint

everlast75 wrote: »

Worse still is that there was an Iran deal. Intelligence services said they were complying.

Trump strolls in, upturns the table and then says he will fix it.

Things would be better if he didn't **** things up in the first place.

Well there's obviously reasons. There's money here. Not necessarily trump but Bolton has to be looked at.

Itssoeasy

Donald trump Jr apparently has come to a deal with the senate intelligence committee to testify before then but in a closed door session. I mean if there is nothing to hide in front of a friendly committee with Lindsay graham in charge.

aloyisious

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Donald trump Jr apparently has come to a deal with the senate intelligence committee to testify before then but in a closed door session. I mean if there is nothing to hide in front of a friendly committee with Lindsay graham in charge.

Ta TomOnBoard. Edit: I should have checked facts first and even known who was [Richard Burr - R] chairing it, given the subpoena issuing being in the news for the past few days. Lindsay is chairing the Judiciary committee and sitting on 3 other - Appropriations, Budget and Foreign Affairs. Not on the Senate Intelligence Committee. https://www.lgraham.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/committee-assignments

TomOnBoard

Lindsay Graham isn't on that committee.

The Senate Intelligence Ctte is one of the few nearly- functioning Committees on the Hill. I don't know what the objective is in respect of Junior, but I would NOT like to be in his shoes on this one.

aloyisious

I think I might keep on waiting for a reaction on how Don praised Viktor Orbán [the Hungarian PM] at their Oval Office meeting yesterday.

He said: “You’re respected all over Europe. Probably, like me, a little bit controversial, but that’s OK. “You’ve done a good job and you’ve kept your country safe.”

Orbán said his government and the Trump administration were aligned on some global issues.
He said: “I would like to express that we are proud to stand together with United States on fighting against illegal migration, on terrorism, and to protect and help Christian communities all around the world.”

Trump quickly picked up on his visitor’s last claim, saying: “You have been great with respect to Christian communities, you have really put a block up. And we appreciate that very much”.

The 3 para's above are a mix of The Sun and USA Today reports on the praise-remarks made by both men at the meeting begs the question if Hungarian history is in repeat-mode.

Penn

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Lindsay Graham isn't on that committee.

The Senate Intelligence Ctte is one of the few nearly- functioning Committees on the Hill. I don't know what the objective is in respect of Junior, but I would NOT like to be in his shoes on this one.

Aye, and it's chaired by a Republican who subpoenaed Don Jr. to come in very shortly after reading the unredacted Mueller Report, which means there's likely something in there that could harm Don Jr. Closed session or not, he could be in a spot of bother.

Water John

Well we know he lied, that's a fair reason to re-question him.

everlast75

Penn wrote: »

Aye, and it's chaired by a Republican who subpoenaed Don Jr. to come in very shortly after reading the unredacted Mueller Report, which means there's likely something in there that could harm Don Jr. Closed session or not, he could be in a spot of bother.

His evidence lined up with Cohen's.

Cohen's testimony was proven to be false and he is sitting in jail, for this (amongst other things).

Unlikely as it might be.. fingers crossed...

pixelburp

It seems like fair speculation that the behind-doors meeting is as much Damage Control over likely avenues of questioning, than it is a case of national security; the public hearings are pure box office, and Don Jr sitting at what amounts to a public political trial, would be an unparalleled PR nightmare and functional validation that the administration's faults lie squarely at the seat of the First Family.

Sidebar: it's remarkable to step back, and observe how quickly and simply 'Americans' - or rather a subset thereof - accept a ruling family; that Kushner, Trump Jr, Ivanka wield so much power and influence on American politics is just obscene. It's glib as hell, and I've quoted it in this thread aeons ago, but Sideshow Bob's remark that there are those that "...secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalise criminals and rule [them] like a king!" never feels that far from the truth.

aloyisious

Hopefully the isolationist in Don will step up to the plate and tell his National Security Advisor that the US is not marching off to war in the Mid-East. The dovish hawks in Iran seem to remember the last two wars they were involved in and how destructive a third would be. A broad hint from his generals and admirals on how fighting on two fronts would drain the US military. The US instructing its [non-essential] citizens in Iraq to leave and is upping the ante with Venezuela as well, with its FAA instructing |US| aircraft to stay away from that country.

Manic Moran

I don’t recall it getting linked here, but there was an interesting article in The Atlantic about Bolton and his motivations. It’s long, but the good stuff is rarely short.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/john-bolton-trump-national-security-adviser/583246/

As for the holes in the tankers, they’re not exactly “small”. Small would be something caused by an RPG or heavy machine gun. The attacks during the Tanker War by Iran often were not particularly devastating either, which is why Iran started mining the Gulf. That cost them basically their whole gulf-side Navy, after it tripped over the US’s tolerance line. I’m sure they haven’t forgotten.

Itssoeasy

Just to pick up on what was said about the trumps kids have so much influence in America. Worse than don jr, Jared, and Ivanka having pull is that angry odious person Steven Miller having the amount of control he appears to have.

Christy42

Not the biggest story as the man was already out of jail but interesting that he pardons a dodgy business man (who just wrote a nice book about Trump last year).

Well if you want a pardon, get writing.

TomOnBoard

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don’t recall it getting linked here, but there was an interesting article in The Atlantic about Bolton and his motivations. It’s long, but the good stuff is rarely short.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/john-bolton-trump-national-security-adviser/583246/

An interesting read alright.

Where he said: “The greatest hope for freedom for mankind in history is the United States, and therefore protecting American national interest is the single best strategy for the world", it demonstrates sheer arrogance that I find sickening. Those words suggest that the world's role is intended to simply be the US's servant, and be grateful for that!

I don't think Bolton will care for a moment that further de-stabilisation of an already basket-case Gulf-Region would result from escalating tensions with Iran. However, I can't see Saudi Arabia or Israel wanting to have that hornet's nest poked unless a total wipe-out of the ruling regime in Iran could be guaranteed, without getting Russia involved. So, hopefully Bolton will have to be satisfied with having his long-standing hatred of Iran dealt with through continued attacks on ongoing Iranian support for militants in Syria, Lebanon and Yemen.

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don’t recall it getting linked here, but there was an interesting article in The Atlantic about Bolton and his motivations. It’s long, but the good stuff is rarely short.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/john-bolton-trump-national-security-adviser/583246/

As for the holes in the tankers, they’re not exactly “small”. Small would be something caused by an RPG or heavy machine gun. The attacks during the Tanker War by Iran often were not particularly devastating either, which is why Iran started mining the Gulf. That cost them basically their whole gulf-side Navy, after it tripped over the US’s tolerance line. I’m sure they haven’t forgotten.

Damn cookie "requirements"! He's been in every Republican Admin since 1981? It reads like he believes that AS America [the US] has a manifest-destiny role to be the world's policeman he's made it his destiny to check each deal agreed by ALL administrations [not just Dem] and swipe them with a big stick. not that IF the US has that destiny. It looks like he wants to clout other nations with that stick as well. I agree with the notion that the world needs policing to stop the stupidity of silly people but it looks like he's excluding his destiny belief from that class of silliness. To use the quote "blind devotion to principles can lead to catastrophe" in reverse "blind ignoring of principles can lead to catastrophe". The world doesn't need a Colonel Kurtz [even mythical] rather an Alan Dulles.

Re the tankers, are we talking about frogmen attacks, or mines? Is the damage minor and a "we can hit your interests" signal to the region oil shippers?

TomOnBoard

According to Reuters: "Maritime security sources told Reuters that images suggest the damage was likely caused by limpet mines attached close to the waterline with less than 4 kg of explosives. "

My money is on Yemeni militants, who are also being blamed for alleged drone attacks on Saudi pipelines in recent days.

Brian?

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don’t recall it getting linked here, but there was an interesting article in The Atlantic about Bolton and his motivations. It’s long, but the good stuff is rarely short.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/john-bolton-trump-national-security-adviser/583246/

As for the holes in the tankers, they’re not exactly “small”. Small would be something caused by an RPG or heavy machine gun. The attacks during the Tanker War by Iran often were not particularly devastating either, which is why Iran started mining the Gulf. That cost them basically their whole gulf-side Navy, after it tripped over the US’s tolerance line. I’m sure they haven’t forgotten.

Really enjoyed that article. Thanks.

listermint

Reading through that Bolton article, It strikes me that he is not pragmatic as the article seems to indicate several times. And far from him protecting America, Its him and his likes that resulted in America being involved in areas that it had no business being involved in.

Bolton, Boltons type are the origin of Osama Bin Laden. He is the very definition of short sighted short goalism.

He should be no were near the wheels of power in terms of national policy.

If people fall for his guff about America first then they are stupid enough to fall for him stepping away and disowning his many mistakes.

eire4

TomOnBoard wrote: »

An interesting read alright.

Where he said: “The greatest hope for freedom for mankind in history is the United States, and therefore protecting American national interest is the single best strategy for the world", it demonstrates sheer arrogance that I find sickening. Those words suggest that the world's role is intended to simply be the US's servant, and be grateful for that!

I don't think Bolton will care for a moment that further de-stabilisation of an already basket-case Gulf-Region would result from escalating tensions with Iran. However, I can't see Saudi Arabia or Israel wanting to have that hornet's nest poked unless a total wipe-out of the ruling regime in Iran could be guaranteed, without getting Russia involved. So, hopefully Bolton will have to be satisfied with having his long-standing hatred of Iran dealt with through continued attacks on ongoing Iranian support for militants in Syria, Lebanon and Yemen.

The sheer arrogance and hubris of Boltan and the many in the US government like him never ceases to amaze me. They constantly refer to themselves as "the leader of the free world" Yeah right as long as your government does what its told and says thank you for being forced to do what American tells it to do. American foreign policy is one of immense greed, bullying threatening and intimidation and often out right military intervention. Their country is an oligarchy at this point not even a valid democracy I would posit as well.
As for Iran the Americans already have dabbled there when the CIA got rid of Mossadegh and replaced him with a puppet in the Shah and we saw how that worked out especially after they cut a deal with the disgusting regime in Saudi Arabia to keep the Saud family in power.

TomOnBoard

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Just to pick up on what was said about the trumps kids have so much influence in America. Worse than don jr, Jared, and Ivanka having pull is that angry odious person Steven Miller having the amount of control he appears to have.

There appears to be a horribly odious pair there in Bolton and Miller. I read someone being described recently as a "waste of skin that some deserving burns victim could make much better use of " and... well, enough said..

NEITHER of these 'gentlemen' are amenable to Senate ratification or Congressional oversight as they are just advisors but wield huge and pernicious influence on the Donald's 'actions'.

TomOnBoard

eire4 wrote: »

The sheer arrogance and hubris of Boltan and the many in the US government like him never ceases to amaze me. They constantly refer to themselves as "the leader of the free world" Yeah right as long as your government does what its told and says thank you for being forced to do what American tells it to do. American foreign policy is one of immense greed, bullying threatening and intimidation and often out right military intervention. Their country is an oligarchy at this point not even a valid democracy I would posit as well.
As for Iran the Americans already have dabbled there when the CIA got rid of Mossadegh and replaced him with a puppet in the Shah and we saw how that worked out especially after they cut a deal with the disgusting regime in Saudi Arabia to keep the Saud family in power.

And don't forget the horrendous extra- judicial MURDER that is taking place Every.Single.Day across the Middle-East, Afghanistan and for all we know in Africa also, with drone strikes being launched under the guise of "Keeping America Safe" and/or the "War on Terror"...

When a 1st World country that claims to be the "Leader of the Free World" willfully annihilates men, women and children in 3rd World countries that are living barely above Stone-Age conditions in the name of Humanity, I literally feel ill. And these disgusting atrocities are often managed and their murderous missiles are fired by the safe and secure, air- conditioned shift- workers located in the Nevada Desert, safely within the US Borders!

And that is NOT just a Trump thing! Obama took to the Drone Murder thing as though he was afraid it was going out of fashion. What had been a so-called "War on Terror" became a "War of Terror" in his hands. Trump's "little" modification was to limit information on numbers and effects of the "War" so that nowadays, we can't even know what is going on!

Morally reprehensible, legally suspect, cowardly fly- swatting and simply pure evil! And every US American should realise every day that it is all being done in their names so they are complicit in this campaign of terror!

And what are we hearing about this? Crickets!

Itssoeasy

Well the two Supreme Court justices that Trump has put on the court since coming into office may have to deal with the issue of roe vs wade again with the passing of what looks like a very restrictive abortion law which has been signed into law by the governor of the state of Alabama. This seems stricter than the heart beat law in Georgia. I don't know when the heart starts to beat in the womb but forty years of settled law may be coming to an end depending on how a now conservative leaning SC rules if they do rule on it.

Thargor

Stephen Miller is one of the biggest mysterys to me in the whole sh1tshow, how did he get where he is? You wouldn't think it to look at him but he's only 33!

Itssoeasy

Thargor wrote: »

Stephen Miller is one of the biggest mysterys to me in the whole sh1tshow, how did he get where he is? You wouldn't think it to look at him but he's only 33!

It's a strange one alright but he seems to be fully on the Trump train.

B0jangles

Thargor wrote: »

Stephen Miller is one of the biggest mysterys to me in the whole sh1tshow, how did he get where he is? You wouldn't think it to look at him but he's only 33!

He started young.

Apparently he was infuriated by how his highschool had announcements in english and spanish, had days celebrating other cultures and apparently that led him to where he is today.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-speechwriter-santamonica-20170117-story.html

Manic Moran

TomOnBoard wrote: »

According to Reuters: "Maritime security sources told Reuters that images suggest the damage was likely caused by limpet mines attached close to the waterline with less than 4 kg of explosives. "

My money is on Yemeni militants, who are also being blamed for alleged drone attacks on Saudi pipelines in recent days.

Problem is i’m not sure that Yemeni militants are capable of a limpet mine attack. When the technique first came into prominence in WW2, it was considered to be a special forces operation, and the folks who took on the jobs were very highly trained and equipped with specialist gear. These days, any professional navy can likely do it, so that includes Iran, but I don’t think Yemen would be on that list.

TomOnBoard

Manic Moran wrote: »

Problem is i’m not sure that Yemeni militants are capable of a limpet mine attack. When the technique first came into prominence in WW2, it was considered to be a special forces operation, and the folks who took on the jobs were very highly trained and equipped with specialist gear. These days, any professional navy can likely do it, so that includes Iran, but I don’t think Yemen would be on that list.

I use the term "Yemeni Militants" advisedly... Iran has been using/funding militants in Yemen as cut-outs for years, particularly since the Arab Spring. Even earlier, since the 1990s, Yemeni Houthi religious students have been hosted and funded in Iran by its Shi'ite Ayatollahs and their fundamentalist "universities".

In more recent times, Iran has provided the Yemen Houthis with basic financial and logistical support in the face of massive Saudi Arabian military intervention. In this context, the Houthis are probably on the hind tit of Iran's regional trouble-making spend, with the likes of Hezbollah suckling much more on the front ones, but in the context of Yemen generally being an economic basket-case, that albeit limited financing is probably a huge contributor to the country's GDP.

In a waterway like the Hormuz Straits that has many hundreds into thousands of "small" boats whizzing around all day every day, it would be easy-peasy for a reasonably well- trained team of "fishermen" in a dhow to come close to a tanker and fit a limpet under the waterline. Remember, there's a massive history of free- diving for pearls in this area, with writings by Pliny the Younger some 2,000 years ago extolling the Pearl trade in general and the particular quality of that area's product. So, the fact that Brits and Northern Europeans only gained enough skill to do it in the 1940s belies the fact that such skills / capabilities would have imbued the DNA of many thousands of lads in the region. It would only take a couple of these, albeit with more secret finessing/training by the Iranian Navy, to poke a few holes in a couple of tankers such as we've seen recently.

TomOnBoard

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well the two Supreme Court justices that Trump has put on the court since coming into office may have to deal with the issue of roe vs wade again with the passing of what looks like a very restrictive abortion law which has been signed into law by the governor of the state of Alabama. This seems stricter than the heart beat law in Georgia. I don't know when the heart starts to beat in the womb but forty years of settled law may be coming to an end depending on how a now conservative leaning SC rules if they do rule on it.

As I see it, the Alabama law may take a while to be challenged through local and State Courts before it wends its way to the USSC. Unless there's a lot of fast-tracking, its hard to see the USSC being able to row-in (pun intended :P) this side of the 2020 Presidential Election. Now, if RBG can hold on until late 2020 and deny Trump his next USSC seat (someone like Amy Coney Barrett) an 'automatic' reversal of Roe V Wade is unlikely. However, if Trump does get to put Barrett onto the Court in this term, for whatever reason, I reckon Roe V Wade will be undone!

This has suddenly become a HUGE fillip to Trump's 2020 chances. All he has to do is to campaign on putting an Ultra-Conservative, Anti-Abortion nominee onto the USSC and the Christian fundamentalists will re- support him, albeit while holding their noses.

Whether you consider that 'undoing' Roe V Wade would be a good thing or not is your business and I'm not making any comment on that. (There's been enough Abortion- related threads on Boards to last a lifetime) However, what such an undoing of what Kavanaugh referred to as "settled law" would mean is that the power of judicial precedent and case law would be thrown into absolute chaos across the entirety of the judicial system for decades.