Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

everlast75

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Are there protests planned for Shannon next week?

All joking aside, is the baby blimp going to be there. Do they need money to organise it?

Quin_Dub

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Are there protests planned for Shannon next week?

Not sure , but I can tell you that the Garda presence in the area is huge , even now..

Full checkpoint at the entrance to the airport , all cars stopped and questioned.

I flew out from Shannon the other day and had to give my contact details to the Gardai as I was going to be leaving my car at the airport (they also gave me a numbered sticker for the car window to display whilst it's parked).

They are taking it all very seriously..

RocketRaccoon

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Not sure , but I can tell you that the Garda presence in the area is huge , even now..

Full checkpoint at the entrance to the airport , all cars stopped and questioned.

I flew out from Shannon the other day and had to give my contact details to the Gardai as I was going to be leaving my car at the airport (they also gave me a numbered sticker for the car window to display whilst it's parked).

They are taking it all very seriously..

Oh I know, I'm working here.

Outlaw Pete

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Are there protests planned for Shannon next week?

Seems some protesters canvassed the locals and the response they got was that they were not welcome and so have decided to protest in Dublin instead.

Donald Trump's Doonbeg resort to stay protest-free for Ireland visit

James Giller of Extinction Rebellion Clare says that any protests action that takes place will be peaceful and will also aim to create a positive impression of the village of Doonbeg.

“Myself and a colleague traveled to Doonbeg over the weekend and canvassed the people, to ask them how they feel about the upcoming visit and what they would think of protests,” he said.

“The impression that we got was of a village that has been neglected by the Irish state and now relies on the business of Donald Trump.

“It is very unfortunate that there is such a reliance in this community on his business. They are unfortunately associated with the negative behaviour of Donald Trump.

“Some people expressed the opinion that if there was protests, it would reflect badly on Doonbeg itself, which is something that we want to avoid at all costs. We support the people of Doonbeg and we want their community to thrive.

“Any protest that we have will have a positive message about Doonbeg itself.”

While a protest in Ennis had also been proposed, it is likely that the only action undertaken in Clare will take place in Shannon.

“There is going to be a large protest in Dublin. We, as a coalition of community groups and activist groups, feel that a lot of the negative things that Donald Trump represents are also represented by actions of the Irish state - for example, the continued use of Shannon by US military planes,” said Mr Giller.

“We want to protest Donald Trump in his capacity as President of the United States, but we also want to make it a protest about the Irish government as well. In Clare, a few groups who are based in Clare and Limerick are considering a protest camp in the Shannon area.”

Manic Moran

If you are interested in statistics, Scotusblog ran an assessment of the various votes over the last while. The swing votes tend to be Gorsuch or Kavanaugh, and as such, are the “pair” least likely to vote together with each other in decades. Kavanaugh has been in the majority more than any other judge. The most consistent voting block are the four more liberal judges, and the highest level of consistency is between Kagan and Sotomayor.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2019/05/empirical-scotus-so-happy-together/#more-286247

marno21

McConnell giggling about how he'd fill a Supreme Court vacancy in 2020 should one arise. Which should surprise no one really at this stage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/29/mcconnell-says-he-would-fill-supreme-court-vacancy/

The points made above about the lack of focus on winning back the Senate for Democrats bear repeating, imo. If a Dem was to win the presidency then it'll be several challenging years if the Republicans remain in charge of the Senate. Removing McConnell as majority leader is as important as winning the Presidency but there doesn't seem to be much attention being paid to that when you see 20+ Democrats needlessly trapsing around the country when some of the higher ranking ones could be put to much better use trying to win 2020 Senate seats (Hickenlooper & O'Rourke for starters).

Christy42

marno21 wrote: »

McConnell giggling about how he'd fill a Supreme Court vacancy in 2020 should one arise. Which should surprise no one really at this stage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/29/mcconnell-says-he-would-fill-supreme-court-vacancy/

The points made above about the lack of focus on winning back the Senate for Democrats bear repeating, imo. If a Dem was to win the presidency then it'll be several challenging years if the Republicans remain in charge of the Senate. Removing McConnell as majority leader is as important as winning the Presidency but there doesn't seem to be much attention being paid to that when you see 20+ Democrats needlessly trapsing around the country when some of the higher ranking ones could be put to much better use trying to win 2020 Senate seats (Hickenlooper & O'Rourke for starters).

Might not hurt their profile to be seen as potential presidential candidates? I am sure plenty will drop out quickly and want other jobs.

pixelburp

Trump may be the showman, but McConnell is the one happily playing his own tune in the background, and liberals of any stripe should see the latter as the true enemy of a functioning democracy. Not even liberals, moderates really.

I'd still maintain Trump being a wannabe dictator, but "in fairness", that's likely because he only knows how to lead that way, given how he ran his own business; McConnell on the other hand is the walking embodiment of the "scheming politician", seeing the flaws in the American political system and forcing an advantage at any cost. He plays the constitution like a cudgel, and I don't imagine he gives one jot to its principles.

The electoral college system may arguably be broken, but the absence of Term Limits in positions below the Presidency is a genuine pox.

Penn

Mueller making a statement at 4pm our time. Statement only, no questions after.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/robert-mueller-make-public-statement-about-russia-probe-wednesday-n1011331

Considering it's been organised by the Justice Department, hard to know what way this will go.

pixelburp

Mueller's face has been almost omnipresent across the landscape of US politics for the last 2 years, yet I don't think I've ever heard him speak. Can't imagine this will be anything but the most prosaic of statements, although who knows. The devil was in the detail of the Mueller Report, so public utterances on those particulars could themselves be grenades into the narrative that the report proves innocence.

Penn

pixelburp wrote: »

Mueller's face has been almost omnipresent across the landscape of US politics for the last 2 years, yet I don't think I've ever heard him speak. Can't imagine this will be anything but the most prosaic of statements, although who knows. The devil was in the detail of the Mueller Report, so public utterances on those particulars could themselves be grenades into the narrative that the report proves innocence.

I'd say it's going to be a very carefully worded (by the Justice Department) statement repeating key lines from the report which ties in with Barr's summary and statements. It'll be the truth, but only in so far as it supports Barr and Trump's assertions that the investigation is over and Mueller couldn't completely prove there was collusion. Whether they mention the obstruction side of things at all will be the interesting/key factor.

Professor Moriarty

Penn wrote: »

I'd say it's going to be a very carefully worded (by the Justice Department) statement repeating key lines from the report which ties in with Barr's summary and statements. It'll be the truth, but only in so far as it supports Barr and Trump's assertions that the investigation is over and Mueller couldn't completely prove there was collusion. Whether they mention the obstruction side of things at all will be the interesting/key factor.

His Twitter machine is quiet so you're probably spot on.

Danzy

marno21 wrote: »

McConnell giggling about how he'd fill a Supreme Court vacancy in 2020 should one arise. Which should surprise no one really at this stage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/29/mcconnell-says-he-would-fill-supreme-court-vacancy/

The points made above about the lack of focus on winning back the Senate for Democrats bear repeating, imo. If a Dem was to win the presidency then it'll be several challenging years if the Republicans remain in charge of the Senate. Removing McConnell as majority leader is as important as winning the Presidency but there doesn't seem to be much attention being paid to that when you see 20+ Democrats needlessly trapsing around the country when some of the higher ranking ones could be put to much better use trying to win 2020 Senate seats (Hickenlooper & O'Rourke for starters).

At least 70% of the Democratic candidates are in the race to raise profile, leverage delegates, open future opportunities outside of politics etc

I'd be tempted to guess higher.

Penn

https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/status/1133730827332968448

White House knew Mueller making statement. Looking more and more likely it's been orchestrated to try prevent the need for Mueller to appear before House Committees either publicly or privately.

everlast75

Penn wrote: »

I'd say it's going to be a very carefully worded (by the Justice Department) statement repeating key lines from the report which ties in with Barr's summary and statements. It'll be the truth, but only in so far as it supports Barr and Trump's assertions that the investigation is over and Mueller couldn't completely prove there was collusion. Whether they mention the obstruction side of things at all will be the interesting/key factor.

My guess is a further denial of Wolff's claim there were 3 indictments drafted against Trump, or perhaps clarification re Mueller's possible attendance before the committees.

Penn

everlast75 wrote: »

My guess is a further denial of Wolff's claim there were 3 indictments drafted against Trump, or perhaps clarification re Mueller's possible attendance before the committees.

I saw another tweet saying the statement isn't related to Wolff's book at all. Can't find it now though.

everlast75

Penn wrote: »

I saw another tweet saying the statement isn't related to Wolff's book at all. Can't find it now though.

I guessed wrong then

Twitter suggesting it is about Russian interference
What more is there to say...

TomOnBoard

Penn wrote: »

Mueller making a statement at 4pm our time. Statement only, no questions after.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/robert-mueller-make-public-statement-about-russia-probe-wednesday-n1011331

Considering it's been organised by the Justice Department, hard to know what way this will go.

I'm not particularly surprised that the DoJ is 'organising' this. The Special Counsel investigation was done under the auspices of the DoJ, and Mueller was effectively an agent of the DoJ and his report 'belongs' to the DoJ.

That said, Mueller has decades of a 'straight- arrow' professional reputation that appears to have been stellar, and he wont want to sully that at this stage by appearing as some kind of 'shill' for Barr. So, it's hard to forsee him acting simply as a mouthpiece for Barr and propagating Barr's less than honest portrayal of his report, particularly in the initial 4-page 'summary'. However, that is a long way from Mueller getting into the weeds on the report's findings- I think he will focus on the processes and thinking that went into the report and he will try to steer himself away from being embroiled in the politicisation of the report that both the GOP and the Dems will want to drag him into. So, he will have to do a presentation that is written with the wisdom of Solomon in the hope of keeping his head above the fray.

I'm looking forward to some clarification, particularly in relation to why he punted on the obstruction issue, and whether he even had a choice as to how he could proceed, given the existence of the OLC advice on not indicting a sitting president.

EDIT: Well, that's it from, Mueller... No appearances before Congressional committees etc. So, basically he is saying is "That's what I wrote", and I'm not willing to go one inch beyond what we said in the report. They absolutely could not indict (even in secret) on the obstruction charge, given the OLC advice. The Russian involvement in the election was real; it happened; everyone needs to sit up and do whatever is needed to make sure it doesn't happen again.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/woodruffbets

live twitter feed from the event

Penn

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/mueller-if-we-had-confidence-that-the-president-did-not-commit-a-crime-we-would-have-said-so-841450/

Mueller said that his team could not determine that President Trump did not commit a crime. “If we had confidence that the president did not commit a crime, we would have said so,” he said, adding that his office was upholding Justice Department regulations in choosing not to indict the president. “Charging the president with a crime was therefore not an option we could consider.”

“It would be unfair to potentially accuse somebody of a crime when there can be no court resolution of the actual charge,” Mueller said. “So that was Justice Department policy, those were the principles under which we operated, and from them we concluded that we would not reach a determination one way or the other about whether the president committed a crime. That is the office’s final position and we will not comment on any other conclusions or hypotheticals about the president.”

Can't imagine this changing anything. The House committees will likely still push for Mueller to testify while Trump & Barr will still claim there are no charges being brought against the President (which Trump will extend into being proof that he's innocent).

TomOnBoard

Penn wrote: »

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/mueller-if-we-had-confidence-that-the-president-did-not-commit-a-crime-we-would-have-said-so-841450/



Can't imagine this changing anything. The House committees will likely still push for Mueller to testify while Trump & Barr will still claim there are no charges being brought against the President (which Trump will extend into being proof that he's innocent).

I do think it will make it very difficult for the House to force him into testifying to Nadler's Committee. Basically he is saying to Congress "Now do your jobs... If ye want to go further, use the impeachment process... the Special Counsel process could go no further than it did, given the DoJ policy."

amandstu

Penn wrote: »

Can't imagine this changing anything. The House committees will likely still push for Mueller to testify while Trump & Barr will still claim there are no charges being brought against the President (which Trump will extend into being proof that he's innocent).

Yes the findings of the SC can be read by either side of the debate in a way that suits them .

It is the objective consequences we have to pay attention to.

Trump and associates have the advantages of setting (mangling) the agenda and still the beast will not lie down.

I think the news from China regarding rare earths may help to show up the man child for the imbecile he is even in the eyes of his followers

Globalism kicks back?

valoren

"If we had confidence the President did not commit a crime, we would have said so"

That's the telling part. Essentially, the only reason he couldn't be indicted by us was because he is the POTUS.

everlast75

Basically Mueller said what Barr should have said about the report.

amandstu

everlast75 wrote: »

Basically Mueller said what Barr should have said about the report.

Yes I agree. Mueller may also be right to be apprehensive of being used by the Dems (outside,as he says the actual content of his report.; perhaps he is right that it should speak for itself if possible)

serfboard

pixelburp wrote: »

Trump may be the showman, but McConnell is the one happily playing his own tune in the background, and liberals of any stripe should see the latter as the true enemy of a functioning democracy. Not even liberals, moderates really.
...
McConnell ... is the walking embodiment of the "scheming politician", seeing the flaws in the American political system and forcing an advantage at any cost. He plays the constitution like a cudgel, and I don't imagine he gives one jot to its principles.

... the absence of Term Limits in positions below the Presidency is a genuine pox.

Even though I agree with you on everything about McConnell, I don't agree that term limits would fix what's broken in the American political system.

There are no end of idiots willing to be useful to the oligarchs, who would replace sitting politicians at the end of their fixed terms.

Igotadose

So sad to read Mueller's statement. He did the job he was charted to do under the restrictions he had. And, the summary of just this ONE investigation into Trump's activities is, "We can't charge him for obstruction because we're not allowed to." Maybe this is the best epitaph for Trump's administration: rules they didn't create are protecting him from a criminal charge.

And this is just one investigation of dozens. How sad this man is President. An empty, soulless suit dedicated to personal aggrandizement with no commitment to American democracy. Worst man to be President in modern history.

TomOnBoard

Igotadose wrote: »

Worst man to be President in modern history.

Worst man to be President in modern history.

PropJoe10

Igotadose wrote: »

So sad to read Mueller's statement. He did the job he was charted to do under the restrictions he had. And, the summary of just this ONE investigation into Trump's activities is, "We can't charge him for obstruction because we're not allowed to." Maybe this is the best epitaph for Trump's administration: rules they didn't create are protecting him from a criminal charge.

And this is just one investigation of dozens. How sad this man is President. An empty, soulless suit dedicated to personal aggrandizement with no commitment to American democracy. Worst man to be President in modern history.

Yep, a disgusting and obviously corrupt individual protected by the office that he holds. A sad day for the United States to be honest. He is a despicable person and I truly hope the Democrats focus their efforts on defeating him at the ballot box rather than chasing an impeachment process that they won't win due to the inaction of the Republican party.

TomOnBoard

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Yep, a disgusting and obviously corrupt individual protected by the office that he holds. A sad day for the United States to be honest. He is a despicable person and I truly hope the Democrats focus their efforts on defeating him at the ballot box rather than chasing an impeachment process that they won't win due to the inaction of the Republican party.

I think that Mueller, in his own way, put down a challenge to Congress today. "Man Up or Shut Up.... Impeach within your powers, and stop looking at someone else to solve this problem for you. Bringing me in to testify at your Dog and Pony shows won't add an iota of further evidence or clarification to what I and my team have already published, and clarified in spades today in respect of obstruction.

Just get on with it, or not.... Your choice within the Constitution, and only yours, given DoJ Policy"