Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Pelvis

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Except none of that is true..

November 2018 Ratings: CNN Posts Significant Year-Over-Year Growth

"MSNBC on pace for Best Year ever"

New York Times Subscription Revenue Topped $1 Billion In 2017. The New York Times made more than $1 billion in overall subscription revenue in 2017. At a time when many media companies are struggling, The Times saw its circulation surge.

Washington Post profitable and growing for two years under Jeff Bezos’ ownership

What you readin' facts for?

everlast75

https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-investigation-trump-russia-complete-guide/amp?__twitter_impression=true

An excellent and up to date snap shot of where we are currently. A vast array of investigations.

duploelabs

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It not QAnon bull****. It's a mainstream news the FBI raided a whistleblower home. He has files that show Mueller covered up crimes.

A quick check over your post history sees that you're quite adverse to critical thinking, and fox news at this stage cannot be classed as an independent news source

serfboard

listermint wrote: »

I think that applies to any nation state. Including our own.

Agreed. Any country that elects the Healy-Raes, Michael Lowry and Shane Ross (to name just a few) isn't exactly in a position to throw stones at anyone else.

mcmoustache

everlast75 wrote: »

I think it was mcmoustache who posted earlier that he or she nearly fell for the right wing conspiracy stuff.

Personally, I have a hard time understanding why such posters here still see things as they do.

In order to get a handle on that, perhaps mcmoustache could explain what drew him or her to those stories, what gave them credibility and what made him or her see the light, as it were?

I honestly didn't go very far. In the real world I have a decent job, a long term partner and a large social circle through my hobbies. In hindsight, it was never likely to stick. For a brief period it did seem to me like gamers as a group were being unfairly attacked as a group by journos and activists who wanted games to be more PC so that they wouldn't be triggered. Most of my information on this came from /r/kotakuinaction but after a while, I just thought that these guys were just being overly outraged. There was also an underlying hatred of women which I found to be a bit off-putting.

Anyway, here's an attempt at your questions

what drew him or her to those stories

I'm not a fan of the excesses of PC culture, in particular a lot of the nonsense from US colleges such as safe spaces and banning comedians for risque jokes. On this side of the pond I cringe when I hear twitter types mention "white privilege" or "white males". My views on that haven't really changed much so back then, I was more than willing to hear about the latest lefty nonsense. These days, I'm painfully aware that the world is so full of stupidity that you'll find it everywhere although not to the same extent.

I also play a lot of computer games and have mistrusted gaming publications since Jeff Gerstmann (from Giant Bomb) was sacked for giving a poor review to Kane and Lynch.

It was a bit of a perfect storm.

what gave them credibility

To be fair, a lot of the events surrounding gamergate did actually take place in terms of the gaming publications and the videos published on youtube and gaming publications have always had a cosy relationship with game publishers.

There were also leaks and other publicly available information. It's not that the early GG youtubers were making stuff up - they were using factual information to sell outrage.

what made him or her see the light, as it were?

As mentioned earlier, it went from "ethics in game journalism" to "feminazis taking our games away" very quickly. Whatever about my views on PC idiocy, I have no time for sexism, racism, homophobia or any other irrational hatred.

I noped out of it fairly quickly but I did notice later the gradual shift in tone later from the gamergate youtubers from being about critiques of PC culture in gaming to what is now the alt-right.

I'm probably not a great case study here because I just took the bait briefly and left it when I started to see the sinister side.

mcmoustache

duploelabs wrote: »

A quick check over your post history sees that you're quite adverse to critical thinking, and fox news at this stage cannot be classed as an independent news source

To be fair to Cheerful, he does think for himself and is not trolling. In the skrypal thread, he did eventually come around to the idea that the Russians did it. If he were a troll or someone who didn't care about what happened, this wouldn't have happened.

It's where he gets his information from that keeps setting him down the wrong path. It's mostly Russian propaganda and the right-wing sites that echo it.

duploelabs

mcmoustache wrote: »

To be fair to Cheerful, he does think for himself and is not trolling. In the skrypal thread, he did eventually come around to the idea that the Russians did it. If he were a troll or someone who didn't care about what happened, this wouldn't have happened.

It's where he gets his information from that keeps setting him down the wrong path. It's mostly Russian propaganda and the right-wing sites that echo it.

Never said they were a troll. A troll posts to inflame against the sentiment to maliciously create conflict. The other, in Cheerful's case, is someone who is ignorant to fact and evidence.

mcmoustache

There's been another indictment today. This time, it's Flynn's business partner in the plot to kidnap Gulen.

A business partner of Michael Flynn is being charged with acting as an agent of a foreign government and conspiracy for attempting to get Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen extradited from the United States.

Bijan Kian made his first appearance in Alexandria federal court Monday morning.

Turkish businessman Ekim Alptekin who paid Kian and Flynn, is charged in the indictment, but remains abroad.

The Turkish government blames Gulen, who is living in exile in Pennsylvania, for instigating a failed coup in 2016.

Strangely enough, it was reported yesterday that the Turkish Foreign minister said that Trump was working on extraditing Gulen. I'm not sure if these stories are connected in any way.

The indictment doesn't have Mueller's signature on it. It's James P Gillis, Assistant US Attorney so I don't know how much of this is Mueller.

eire4

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I mean other than all the factual metrics, maybe.


:rolleyes:

Not sure what part of the US you live in, but trust me... things are going pretty well in "Hollywood" and the liberal West Coast in general compared to the Trump-loving flyover states, the rust belt and coal mining country which Trump has completely failed.

Trumps economy benefits the wealthy and the wealthy alone; Trump certainly hasn't hurt my bank account, but I'd rather lose the tax breaks and get rid of him.

I would agree with that. If you have money then the tax breaks you were handed have very significantly benefited you. As an example at the corporate level 2018 was a record year for stock buybacks which of course are done to massively benefit corporate executives salary. The reality for the vast majority of Americans is not so positive though to put it mildly.

eagle eye

So how is the wall doing?

jobbridge4life

mcmoustache wrote: »

I honestly didn't go very far. In the real world I have a decent job, a long term partner and a large social circle through my hobbies. In hindsight, it was never likely to stick. For a brief period it did seem to me like gamers as a group were being unfairly attacked as a group by journos and activists who wanted games to be more PC so that they wouldn't be triggered. Most of my information on this came from /r/kotakuinaction but after a while, I just thought that these guys were just being overly outraged. There was also an underlying hatred of women which I found to be a bit off-putting.

Anyway, here's an attempt at your questions

what drew him or her to those stories

I'm not a fan of the excesses of PC culture, in particular a lot of the nonsense from US colleges such as safe spaces and banning comedians for risque jokes. On this side of the pond I cringe when I hear twitter types mention "white privilege" or "white males". My views on that haven't really changed much so back then, I was more than willing to hear about the latest lefty nonsense. These days, I'm painfully aware that the world is so full of stupidity that you'll find it everywhere although not to the same extent.

I also play a lot of computer games and have mistrusted gaming publications since Jeff Gerstmann (from Giant Bomb) was sacked for giving a poor review to Kane and Lynch.

It was a bit of a perfect storm.

what gave them credibility

To be fair, a lot of the events surrounding gamergate did actually take place in terms of the gaming publications and the videos published on youtube and gaming publications have always had a cosy relationship with game publishers.

There were also leaks and other publicly available information. It's not that the early GG youtubers were making stuff up - they were using factual information to sell outrage.

what made him or her see the light, as it were?

As mentioned earlier, it went from "ethics in game journalism" to "feminazis taking our games away" very quickly. Whatever about my views on PC idiocy, I have no time for sexism, racism, homophobia or any other irrational hatred.

I noped out of it fairly quickly but I did notice later the gradual shift in tone later from the gamergate youtubers from being about critiques of PC culture in gaming to what is now the alt-right.

I'm probably not a great case study here because I just took the bait briefly and left it when I started to see the sinister side.

I know I thanked that post but I just don't think that suffices.

So thanks again.

I went down my own 'dark path' a few years ago, worse/further than your own from what is above. I am still trying to reconcile with that.

rossie1977

Dow down another 500 points today.

Worst start to December since 1931

mcmoustache

Mueller has released Flynn's 302 form which is basically a summary of his interview with Peter Strzok and

another FBI agent

.

By ECF
The Honorable Emmet G. Sullivan
United States District Court for the District of Columbia
E. Barrett Prettyman United States Courthouse
333 Constitution Avenue N.W.
Washington, DC 20001
Re: United States v. Michael T. Flynn,Crim. No. 17-232 (EGS)
Dear
Judge Sullivan:
Pursuant to the Court’s Minute Order dated today, the government hereby files two redacted versions of the FD-302 report summarizing the FBI’s interview of the defendant on January 24, 2017.

See Attachment. The content of both versions of the report is identical, except that the first version, which was digitally signed and certified in February 2017, inadvertently contained a header labeled “DRAFT DOCUMENT/DELIBERATIVE MATERIAL.” Once that error was recognized, the header was removed and a corrected version, omitting only the header, was re-signed and re-certified in May 2017.


Very truly yours,
ROBERT S. MUELLER, III
Special Counsel

By: _________/s/
__________
Brandon L. Van Grack
Zainab N. Ahmad
Senior Assistant Special Counsels
(202) 616-0800

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5633260/12-17-18-Redacted-Flynn-Interview-302.pdf

A lot of it is redacted but it paints a very different picture to that proposed by Flynn's lawyers. They tried to jog his memory and help him remember things. For example...

The interviewing agents asked Flynn if he recalled any

interact

ions with Kislyak about the United Nations (UN) vote surrounding the issue of Israeli settlements.

Flynn quickly responded "Yes, good reminder".

That's just one example and it pours some cold water on the idea that he was tricked although I don't think any Trump supporters on this thread have made this argument.

Anyway, tomorrow he will be sentenced. I presume the judge already had this information and the decision by Flynn's lawyers to mischaracterise this as him being tricked by the FBI in their sentencing memo won't go down well.

everlast75

This guy may usually be a stooge, but for him to say what he is saying now on Fox News is quite something;

https://twitter.com/markfollman/status/1074808738756751361?s=19

jooksavage

mcmoustache wrote: »

Anyway, tomorrow he will be sentenced. I presume the judge already had this information and the decision by Flynn's lawyers to mischaracterise this as him being tricked by the FBI in their sentencing memo won't go down well.

Judge Sullivan is known for handing down harsher sentences than those recommended by prosecutors.

Interestingly, in Muellers recommendations early last week he suggested a sentence on the lower end of the scale, including the possibility of "no jail time". After Flynns little stunt where he specifically named Strzok and had a dig at the FBI, Mueller reiterated his recommendation that Flynn get a lenient sentence but this time pointedly ommitted the "no jail time" bit.

Good going Flynn, you ****ing idiot.

circadian

jooksavage wrote: »

Judge Sullivan is known for handing down harsher sentences than those recommended by prosecutors.

Interestingly, in Muellers recommendations early last week he suggested a sentence on the lower end of the scale, including the possibility of "no jail time". After Flynns little stunt where he specifically named Strzok and had a dig at the FBI, Mueller reiterated his recommendation that Flynn get a lenient sentence but this time pointedly ommitted the "no jail time" bit.

Good going Flynn, you ****ing idiot.

I think given the evidence we've seen so far, Flynn isn't the sharpest knife in the block. The levels of stupidity this investigation is throwing up is astonishing. It's like these guys saw the cash and all reason went out the window.

Zubeneschamali

circadian wrote: »

The levels of stupidity this investigation is throwing up is astonishing.

John Oliver: "...a scandal that we've been referring to as 'Stupid Watergate', because it has all the potential consequences of Watergate but everyone involved is REALLY stupid."

26000 Elephants

everlast75 wrote: »

This guy may usually be a stooge, but for him to say what he is saying now on Fox News is quite something;



https://twitter.com/markfollman/status/1074808738756751361?s=19

"The President may already be indicted"

Let that sink in for a while. And thats from Fox News.

circadian

Shep Smith is the exception to the rule on Fox though, I reckon that's the real opinion of his guest and he shills elsewhere on the network.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1074993036831191045

Cohen makes a plea deal - he's a "rat"

Flynn makes a plea deal - not a bad word said.

Now I know Cohen implicated Trump - but how does Trump know (or does he know, is he guessing) that Flynn hasn't spilled the beans on him?
Or is Trump playing nice so that he won't?

FreudianSlippers

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1074993036831191045

Cohen makes a plea deal - he's a "rat"

Flynn makes a plea deal - not a bad word said.

Now I know Cohen implicated Trump - but how does Trump know (or does he know, is he guessing) that Flynn hasn't spilled the beans on him?
Or is Trump playing nice so that he won't?

He obviously at least has the belief that Flynn won't implicate him in anything - I'm not sure exactly how he can know this, either (a) he has engaged in witness tampering or (b) he doesn't have a clue what's going on and we should just wait for the tweet at 3am tomorrow after Flynn implicates him.

Honestly nothing would surprise me at this point.

everlast75

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

He obviously at least has the belief that Flynn won't implicate him in anything - I'm not sure exactly how he can know this, either (a) he has engaged in witness tampering or (b) he doesn't have a clue what's going on and we should just wait for the tweet at 3am tomorrow after Flynn implicates him.

Honestly nothing would surprise me at this point.

Has he a joint Defence agreement with him, does anyone know?

Leroy42

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

He obviously at least has the belief that Flynn won't implicate him in anything - I'm not sure exactly how he can know this, either (a) he has engaged in witness tampering or (b) he doesn't have a clue what's going on and we should just wait for the tweet at 3am tomorrow after Flynn implicates him.

Honestly nothing would surprise me at this point.

Or C) he didn't to anything wrong and thus has nothing to fear.

FreudianSlippers

everlast75 wrote: »

Has he a joint Defence agreement with him, does anyone know?

Flynn's plea excludes him from any JDA


EDIT: here's a story about it from CNN written prior to the plea agreement https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/23/politics/michael-flynn-donald-trump-robert-mueller-new-york-times/index.html

spacecoyote

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/18/trump-machine-swallows-rnc-1067875

I'm wondering are there any legalities around this. In essence it's saying...don't bother trying to primary Trump, the RNC have already decided who's running.

I assume that there must not be any issues with this, outside of tying themselves up 100% with a candidate who has some potentially significant legal exposure

Chips Lovell

I've infracted one persona and deleted a bunch of posts. Please read the charter:

Keep your language civil, particularly when referring to other posters and people in the public eye. Using unsavoury language does not add to your argument. Examples would be referring to other people or groups as scumbags, crusties, sheeple, shills, trolls, traitors or saying that recently deceased people should “rot in hell” or similar. Repeated use of terms like that will result in a ban from the forum.

Some of the stuff being said doesn't belong on this forum. Political discussion only, please.

FreudianSlippers

Leroy42 wrote: »

Or C) he didn't to anything wrong and thus has nothing to fear.

Good one

everlast75

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Flynn's plea excludes him from any JDA


EDIT: here's a story about it from CNN written prior to the plea agreement https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/23/politics/michael-flynn-donald-trump-robert-mueller-new-york-times/index.html

Maybe he has "done a Manafort" and leaked info to Trump...

Itssoeasy

I finally started to watch that roger stone documentary on Netflix and I'm only twenty minutes in and I'll say one thing, he's not short on confidence.

Franz Von Peppercorn

So when’s mueller taking trump down?