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Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V
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Trump effectively came away with nothing, particularly since now NK have stopped cooperating in the return of remains, but clearly NK expected more from the recent summit. Trump, in the end, had little option but to walk away, embarrassingly so, given that the US had really achieved nothing but had given NK pretty much everything they wanted.
My guess would be KJU blamed the envoys for the failure to get the deal signed off, on the basis that the approach they had taken of making it all about Trump and his ego had almost worked to perfection but in the end failed.
au contraire, Trump has been instrumental in a halt to NK nuclear tests, and the facts back it up .
NK has had 6 Nuclear tests
1 in 2006 approx 2 KiloTon - BUSH II
1 in 2009 approx 5 kiloton - OBAMA I
1 in 2013 approx 12 kiloton - OBAMA I
2 in 2016 16 kiloton - OBAMA II
and 25 kiloton - OBAMA II
(we all remember Obama admin "strategic patience " policy )
1 in 2017 US inteligence estimate 140 KILOTON - TRUMP I
I take it posters will see the pattern , you can see how they have increased in size.
Since the summits have started there have been no NK Nuclear tests.
Anti-Trumpers call that coming away with nothing.
The rest of the world call that coming away with a halt to NK nuclear testing whilst talks are ongoing..
Spin is just spin and is just temporary but .. FACTS are forever .0 -
Trump stated that Russia helped him get elected in a tweet yesterday.
You'd think that would be the main story.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/11340663715103785010 -
I dont have two different opinions on the same thing, just cos you say I do dont make it so. Journalism is a joke .
here just a few examples from this week ,
US GDP estimates for Q1 2019 were announced at 3.1% yesterday, Trump admin estimated 3.2% , the markets estimated 3.0% so wheres the big story on that , wheres the analysis on the front page of how the US is getting 3 % GDP and the rest of the world even the EU is scrambling for 1%
Instead its the same drivel and spin and hit jobs and scrambling at Mueller and what he might have meant.
Remeber OBAMA AND HIS DAYS OF 3% WILL NEVER BE SEEN AGAIN .. wheres the journalistic investigation and analysis of this stuff...
JAPAN visit for Trump was an amazing event, I had to watch NHK to get soem decent coverage, the meeting of the west and the ancient EAST in the Emperors palace, what amazing footage was available, especially with the grace of Melania, do you think it got the coverage ite merited, nah , a few reports from there, few if any showing extensive footage of the PR event.
Yet the Japaneese loved it as evident from NHK coverage but he main stream media cant be bothered to give the real story .
Trump shakes hands with all 991 graduates from Air Force Academy, try finding news on that, instead there still going on about a ship that might might not have been moved...
Trump attacks MS-13, whats the media spin , Trump attacks immigrants, where are the journos investigating the murderous reign of MS--13
A child dies in US immigration custody, it makes headline news, umerous op-eds, everyones self righous and on their high horse , and then a teenage girl gets raped and murdered by an illegal immigrant it dosent get a mentioned and is dropped like a hot potato , it barely registers, in the news. In this year few if any ANGEL MOMs (women whos children have been killed by an illegal alien) has been a guest on a CNN or MSNBC show, the same stations gave Avenatti 200 appearances in 2 years, why cos he fit their hit-job agenda .
the list goes on and on . I dont have two different opinions , I have 1, The media is and has been a running joke for nigh on 3 years.
Thanks for the response.
I’d have to disagree. Media here are mostly mouthpieces for whatever govt we have and always follow the script without any true investigation whether through their own laziness or being whipped into line and not allowed get their teeth into it.
US media, totally divided into one side trying to investigate and reveal and shouted down for doing so, at the behest of trump, and the other side working as a pure propaganda machine for trump/GOP.
Sadly there seems to be no middle.
The truth is usually the ridge of the coin not either side.
I’d love to believe in anything as unquestioningly as you do Trump. But it would be good for all of us to at least hear the other side and consider other views now and then. Rather than constantly copying and pasting the latest press release.0 -
Then an hour later said "Russia did not help me get elected." followed by "You know who got me elected? You know who got me elected? I got me elected."Trump stated that Russia helped him get elected in a tweet yesterday.
You'd think that would be the main story.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/11340663715103785010 -
It means everything ...
860 DAYS of the Trump Presidency ... with today being the 861st.
860 Days in office and counting and no charges , no collusion, no conspiracy, no obstruction and no impeachement or even hint of having these happen ..
He has 650 days left in office. With a likelihood of a second term .
Im happy to enjoy they 1610 , One Thousand Six Hundred and Ten days of his first term in office,
Meanwhile I guess the anti-Trumpers will have to content themselves with re-reading Muellers report and analysing Muellers press conference.
Folks it was all over when Trump won the election Nov 9th 2016. it was all over when he took office Jan 20th 2017 , it was all over when he signed the paperwork to go for a second term on Jan 21st 2017,
You would think after 860 days in office the anti-Trumpers might realsie its all over.
Enjoy the next 650 days of TRump , buckle up it will be great.
Well that's completely untrue if you consider the amount of Trump's inner circle who are currently serving sentences, taken plea deals, or in court0 -
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Trump stated that Russia helped him get elected in a tweet yesterday.
You'd think that would be the main story.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1134066371510378501
He has deleted that tweet though?
Or he’s that stupid that he thinks hiding in plain sight and admitting it will go unnoticed?0 -
Stop moaning ffs wrote: »He has deleted that tweet though?
Or he’s that stupid that he thinks hiding in plain sight and admitting it will go unnoticed?
He hasn't deleted the tweet.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1134066371510378501
He also tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1133893813611782144
"The Democrats colluded with the Russians to get me elected so I would try to obstruct justice so they could impeach me, but also it's a witch hunt because it didn't happen." - Donald "Stable Genius" Trump0 -
Actually Trump has had a historic week with the military.
[Paraphrasing]...some regular presidenty stuff described as the best thing ever...[/Paraphrasing]
Can you imagine if Hilary did this, my god the internet would break with commentary of what a great gesture it was... but the bias runs deep . Little if any coverage, journos too busy writing the next hit-job piece, just like their colleague in the next cube, building, news agency....
No the internet would not go nuts. Take a look at the threads from Obama's presidency. There was nobody displaying the type of fanaticism that you're displaying. Discussions were a lot more sober than your wide-eyed euphoric praise for the mundane.
You're just making stuff up.0 -
Amazing that any politician could get away with that even. Aren't politicians supposed to be simple servants of the voters?Bryant Magnificent Housefly wrote: »Then an hour later said "Russia did not help me get elected." followed by "You know who got me elected? You know who got me elected? I got me elected."
He should have said (in his "correction")
"Russia did not help me get elected." followed by "You know who got me elected? You know who got me elected? The American People got me elected."
But that would be too decent. Indecency becomes this "President".0 -
Will the release of mike Flynn 's transcripts of conversations and evidence go ahead today?
The judge gave Justice Dept deadline date of May 31st.
Am really interested to hear the transcript between Flynn and Kislyak but can't see Justice Dept disclosing that.0 -
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Will the release of mike Flynn 's transcripts of conversations and evidence go ahead today?
The judge gave Justice Dept deadline date of May 31st.
Am really interested to hear the transcript between Flynn and Kislyak but can't see Justice Dept disclosing that.
Miller is scheduled to appear before the Grand Jury today too, a Stone associate who had, up to now, fought that subpoena tooth and nail.0 -
US GDP estimates for Q1 2019 were announced at 3.1% yesterday, Trump admin estimated 3.2% , the markets estimated 3.0% so wheres the big story on that , wheres the analysis on the front page of how the US is getting 3 % GDP and the rest of the world even the EU is scrambling for 1%
Instead its the same drivel and spin and hit jobs and scrambling at Mueller and what he might have meant.
Remeber OBAMA AND HIS DAYS OF 3% WILL NEVER BE SEEN AGAIN .. wheres the journalistic investigation and analysis of this stuff...
Isn't the EU at 1.5%? Regardless, the figure of 3% looks good in isolation but many economists know it comes at a price and that's why they don't make a big deal of it. Because when the bubble bursts they do not want to be the ones that were cheerleading the guy inflating it.JAPAN visit for Trump was an amazing event, I had to watch NHK to get soem decent coverage, the meeting of the west and the ancient EAST in the Emperors palace, what amazing footage was available, especially with the grace of Melania, do you think it got the coverage ite merited, nah , a few reports from there, few if any showing extensive footage of the PR event.
Yet the Japaneese loved it as evident from NHK coverage but he main stream media cant be bothered to give the real story .
It doesn't seem like that big a deal or very interesting. Why do you think the US viewers might have wanted to see it? Has a US president not done it before or something?Trump shakes hands with all 991 graduates from Air Force Academy, try finding news on that, instead there still going on about a ship that might might not have been moved...
Again, why would people be interested in a ceremonial thing like that? Is it uncommon?Trump attacks MS-13, whats the media spin , Trump attacks immigrants, where are the journos investigating the murderous reign of MS--13
Trump is using MS13 to make all immigration seem dangerous. If his policies targeted MS13 only it would be one thing but they are breaking up innocent families too.A child dies in US immigration custody, it makes headline news, umerous op-eds, everyones self righous and on their high horse , and then a teenage girl gets raped and murdered by an illegal immigrant it dosent get a mentioned and is dropped like a hot potato , it barely registers, in the news. In this year few if any ANGEL MOMs (women whos children have been killed by an illegal alien) has been a guest on a CNN or MSNBC show, the same stations gave Avenatti 200 appearances in 2 years, why cos he fit their hit-job agenda .
People are use to crime, people aren't use to their government interning children in terrible conditions. That's just the truth of it.0 -
au contraire, Trump has been instrumental in a halt to NK nuclear tests, and the facts back it up .
NK has had 6 Nuclear tests
1 in 2006 approx 2 KiloTon - BUSH II
1 in 2009 approx 5 kiloton - OBAMA I
1 in 2013 approx 12 kiloton - OBAMA I
2 in 2016 16 kiloton - OBAMA II
and 25 kiloton - OBAMA II
(we all remember Obama admin "strategic patience " policy )
1 in 2017 US inteligence estimate 140 KILOTON - TRUMP I
I take it posters will see the pattern , you can see how they have increased in size.
Since the summits have started there have been no NK Nuclear tests.
Anti-Trumpers call that coming away with nothing.
The rest of the world call that coming away with a halt to NK nuclear testing whilst talks are ongoing..
Spin is just spin and is just temporary but .. FACTS are forever .
I certainly can see the pattern. NK carried out a series of ever larger tests to bring them up the level required to force the US to the table. Trump not only agreed to come to the table, but did so without any preconditions, a climb down that any self-respecting GOP should have been appalled at and certainly would have leveled all kinds of vitriol towards 'coward' Obama.
Why would NK now need to carry out any further tests? They got what they wanted. Not 1 but two global staged summits with POTUS, and not only that but unquestioning praise from the US with no remarks about human rights abuses.
When was the last nuclear test that the US carried out? Sept 1992. Have the US given up on nuclear bombs? Are they no longer a threat to other countries? No, they reached a level of nuclear power and knowledge that meant they didn't need any more test.
Well NK have done the same. They achieved their aim. They wanted to become a nuclear power to force the US to the table, and unlike previous POTUS, Trump completely gave them want they wanted.
And what did he get in return? Have they torn down communism? Stopped human rights abuses? Got China to stop supporting them? No, none of them. He achieved the sum result of nothing, nothing except making the US look leak and lacking any principles.0 -
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Plus, with this "no nuclear tests" narrative, it's conveniently ignoring the reports that informed the North Korean facility collapsed or was destroyed. Of course there have been no tests in that case, their facility is bust.
Am happily, totally open to correction here if agencies have since confirmed or denied this. If this is true, then praising Trump for no tests is intellectually dishonest.
Nothing about the North Korea situation is praiseworthy, outside of anyone emotionally overinvested in the perceived successes of a CEO playing president. Hagiography is no better than editorial bias.0 -
Plus, with this "no nuclear tests" narrative, it's conveniently ignoring the reports that informed the North Korean facility collapsed or was destroyed. Of course there have been no tests in that case, their facility is bust.
Am happily, totally open to correction here if agencies have since confirmed or denied this. If this is true, then praising Trump for no tests is intellectually dishonest.
Nothing about the North Korea situation is praiseworthy, outside of anyone emotionally overinvested in the perceived successes of a CEO playing president. Hagiography is no better than editorial bias.
To the extent that anyone can get any fact-based news out of NK, a number of sources reported that the mountain under which a large number of their nuc!ear tests were.conducted has been seriously damaged. Chinese scientists reported that a chimney has been created within the mountain that, if it becomes uncapped, will release massive amounts of radioactive damage into the region. After the last test, the site became unusable for any further testing. It was later the site of a PR demolition farce that was lapped up by Trump's people as part of the RocketMan becoming BestMan gushing narrative.
So the no nuke test 'win' is simply making a virtue out of necessity.0 -
I certainly can see the pattern. NK carried out a series of ever larger tests to bring them up the level required to force the US to the table. Trump not only agreed to come to the table, but did so without any preconditions, a climb down that any self-respecting GOP should have been appalled at and certainly would have leveled all kinds of vitriol towards 'coward' Obama.
Why would NK now need to carry out any further tests? They got what they wanted. Not 1 but two global staged summits with POTUS, and not only that but unquestioning praise from the US with no remarks about human rights abuses.
When was the last nuclear test that the US carried out? Sept 1992. Have the US given up on nuclear bombs? Are they no longer a threat to other countries? No, they reached a level of nuclear power and knowledge that meant they didn't need any more test.
Well NK have done the same. They achieved their aim. They wanted to become a nuclear power to force the US to the table, and unlike previous POTUS, Trump completely gave them want they wanted.
And what did he get in return? Have they torn down communism? Stopped human rights abuses? Got China to stop supporting them? No, none of them. He achieved the sum result of nothing, nothing except making the US look leak and lacking any principles.
The only thing Trump has achieved there is to legitimise Kim as an international leader and statesman, which should never have happened considering Kim's obvious human rights abuses. Kim has been the big winner out of all this. Trump's naivety on the international stage on full display.0 -
Plus, with this "no nuclear tests" narrative, it's conveniently ignoring the reports that informed the North Korean facility collapsed or was destroyed. Of course there have been no tests in that case, their facility is bust.
Am happily, totally open to correction here if agencies have since confirmed or denied this. If this is true, then praising Trump for no tests is intellectually dishonest.
Nothing about the North Korea situation is praiseworthy, outside of anyone emotionally overinvested in the perceived successes of a CEO playing president. Hagiography is no better than editorial bias.
I'm not sure that is fully accurate:Contrary to numerous media reports, while previous nuclear detonations at the Punggye-ri nuclear test site may have necessitated abandonment of further testing directly under Mt. Mantap, they likely did not irreparably alter the integrity of geology in the adjacent mountains to the south and west where other test tunnels have been excavated. The extent of the destruction of those areas irrespective of North Korea’s closing of the tunnel portals remains unclear. As a result, they could potentially be reopened, or new tunnels could be excavated nearby should Pyongyang decide to resume testing.
https://www.38north.org/2018/12/punggye121218/0 -
The only thing Trump has achieved there is to legitimise Kim as an international leader and statesman, which should never have happened considering Kim's obvious human rights abuses. Kim has been the big winner out of all this. Trump's naivety on the international stage on full display.
That's a little unfair. The idea of Trump meeting Kim was put forward to the US by the major stakeholder in the whole affair, South Korea. If you recall, they sent a special envoy to the White House to specifically put it to him. Should the US have completely ignored the request of the ally which was actually facing DPRK and hosting US forces?
Further, DPRK advances in testing were such that the "Kick the can down the road" strategy held by the various previous US Presidents was suffering the problem of running out of road for the can to be kicked down.
I don't think any US president in that situation would have refused the request of the two Koreas. It just happened to be Trump in the chair at the time.0 -
Manic Moran wrote: »That's a little unfair. The idea of Trump meeting Kim was put forward to the US by the major stakeholder in the whole affair, South Korea. If you recall, they sent a special envoy to the White House to specifically put it to him. Should the US have completely ignored the request of the ally which was actually facing DPRK and hosting US forces?
Further, DPRK advances in testing were such that the "Kick the can down the road" strategy held by the various previous US Presidents was suffering the problem of running out of road for the can to be kicked down.
I don't think any US president in that situation would have refused the request of the two Koreas. It just happened to be Trump in the chair at the time.
So his love letters talk isn't naive and utter nonsense?
What about his open admiration for him despite the murder of the american national?
What about his acceptance of KJU thrashing a former VP and Presidential candidate?
He is a man without a diplomatic bone in his body and is completely out of his depth in any professional capacity.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »So his love letters talk isn't naive and utter nonsense?
What about his open admiration for him despite the murder of the american national?
What about his acceptance of KJU thrashing a former VP and Presidential candidate?
He is a man without a diplomatic bone in his body and is completely out of his depth in any professional capacity.
That's a different matter entirely, and not related to the "Legitimizing" argument such as PropJoe put forward.0 -
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Manic Moran wrote: »That's a little unfair. The idea of Trump meeting Kim was put forward to the US by the major stakeholder in the whole affair, South Korea. If you recall, they sent a special envoy to the White House to specifically put it to him. Should the US have completely ignored the request of the ally which was actually facing DPRK and hosting US forces?
Further, DPRK advances in testing were such that the "Kick the can down the road" strategy held by the various previous US Presidents was suffering the problem of running out of road for the can to be kicked down.
I don't think any US president in that situation would have refused the request of the two Koreas. It just happened to be Trump in the chair at the time.
There's some truth in what you say. However, you're missing the point that SK was petrified due to the megalomaniacal posturing coming from Trump around Rocketman and size of desk buttons that appeared to be taunting the NK hornets nest. SK was getting Trump into the game so that annihilation of his people cou!d be avoided.
One could take the view that the ultimate de-escalation of tensions came from strategic thinking based on a grand vision of Asian politics, that solved the can- kicking to which you refer. However, that view is demolished when one sees how the already fragile nuclear non-proliferation agreement with Iran was arbitrarily jettisoned without good cause, to be replaced by nothing!
I believe that SK played Trump out of self- preservation and that was the right thing for them to do, as the sabre rattling was simply way over the top. Also, Trump's rhetoric around why the US shouldn't even be on the Korean peninsu!a without substantial payments from the South was leading to an existential crisis for SK.
When Trump did come to the table, it was a good thing as it de-escalated the situation. However, from that point onward, KJU played Trump like a fiddle, and Trump's total lack of preparedness for the ensuing negotiations and Summits was an absolute disgrace. Just like in the case of his meetings with Putin, Trump dumped the diplomatic rule-book, with his narcissistic know-it-all better than anyone attitude driving his strategic approach. This approach was far more focussed on how the unblemished coastline of NK could be monetized through building condominiums and golf courses, than on how the military exercises and sanctions taps could be turned on and off to force NK to make meaningful progress in de- nuclearisation.
Don't get me wrong; I truly hope the process succeeds. However, let's not fool ourselves here by putting lipstick on a pig.0 -
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And the FACTS havent changed materially in over 2 years ..
40 million spent, hundreds of supeonas, 24x7 media (with a 99% liberal anti-Trump bias), investigation upon investigation etc etc
....
Since we know Trump ALWAYS lies, I would not consider him to be a good source of accurate information. According to the GOP, the cost was closer to $25m:The total reported cost of the Special Counsel’s investigation through September 2018 was $25,215,853.00.
https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1109968386832912385
Also, as well documented, the agreed seizure of Manafort's assets is likely worth well over $40m.
You also conveniently left of these FACTS of indictments:
Trump associates Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, George Papadopoulos, Alex Van der Zwaan, Roger Stone, Sam Patten and also Russians Konstantin Kilimnik, Viktor Netyksho, Maria Butina not to mention all the other Russian hackers.
And isn't Fox news, Breitbart etc part of the 24x7 media? If that's the case I'm surprised you would be them all at under 1% of the media. Or maybe you mean 1% is the accuracy of their reporting.0 -
You also conveniently left of these FACTS of indictments:
No American or associate of the Trump campaign was charged with for conspiring with a Russian or anything close to that ilk. That's a fact that's not going to change. That was the core allegation, that was the special councils main investigative task. There was no conspiracy.
As for Mueller's press announcement yesterday, I can't say with certainty that FatherTed the poster isn't guilty of crimes. What kind of bizarro world prosecutorial role takes a stance like that where people have to proved innocent?
Pelosi seems to be one of the smarter ones, or at least not one of the entirely dimwitted individuals.0 -
peddlelies wrote: »No American or associate of the Trump campaign was charged with for conspiring with a Russian or anything close to that ilk. That's a fact that's not going to change. That was the core allegation, that was the special councils main investigative task. There was no conspiracy.
As for Mueller's press announcement yesterday, I can't say with certainty that FatherTed the poster isn't guilty of crimes. What kind of bizarro world prosecutorial role takes a stance like that where people have to proved innocent?
Pelosi seems to be one of the smarter ones, or at least not one of the entirely dimwitted individuals.
Except I'm not the US President. That was Mueller's point. He cannot charge a US President because he is not allowed to according to his interpretation of the law.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »
What about his acceptance of KJU thrashing a former VP and Presidential candidate?
Every country analises the personality profiles of the leaders of other countries. It's so that they can gain advantages in negotiations, disputes or other discussions.
With Trump and his ego, the North Koreans figured out that all they need to do is insult his domestic opposition and praise Trump. The Japanese did the same thing when Abe Shinso congratulated him on his midterm victory. He's easily manipulated and other countries are taking advantage of that. But that means nothing when people can now afford a costco membership.0 -
peddlelies wrote: »No American or associate of the Trump campaign was charged with for conspiring with a Russian or anything close to that ilk. That's a fact that's not going to change. That was the core allegation, that was the special councils main investigative task. There was no conspiracy.
As for Mueller's press announcement yesterday, I can't say with certainty that FatherTed the poster isn't guilty of crimes. What kind of bizarro world prosecutorial role takes a stance like that where people have to proved innocent?
Pelosi seems to be one of the smarter ones, or at least not one of the entirely dimwitted individuals.
The report lays out that the campaign tried to conspire with the Russians but didn't do such a good job and when they did, it didn't rise to the high bar of conspiracy. Regarding the "No Associate of Trump", I'm not sure what to say except Manafort, Flynn and Stone.
I won't even bother to explain Mueller's words because your desire not to understand is greater than mine to explain it to you.0 -
Just so I understand the rules here, are Trump supporters of the view that unless and until convicted by the courts then any and all persons are innocent and nobody should talk about potential crimes as they haven't been proven?
I only ask ask because it seem such a change In position since HC.0 -
Will the release of mike Flynn 's transcripts of conversations and evidence go ahead today?
The judge gave Justice Dept deadline date of May 31st.
Am really interested to hear the transcript between Flynn and Kislyak but can't see Justice Dept disclosing that.
You were spot on.
https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1134591836738203648?s=19
What now? If someone is to be held in contempt, who is it?0 -
everlast75 wrote: »You were spot on.
https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1134591836738203648?s=19
What now? If someone is to be held in contempt, who is it?
Barr going buy what I am reading on Twitter.0 -
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everlast75 wrote: »
What now? If someone is to be held in contempt, who is it?
Would it be the Prosecutors in the case? When the Judge made his order he made it to the Prosecutors as agents of the DoJ.
This judge previously held 4 prosecutors in contempt for shenanigans around 10 years ago on the Senator Ted Stevens case. That was a very difficult case for all involved and one of the Prosecutors who had been held in civil contempt by the judge took their own life.
Here's what the Judge said on that case when DoJ failed to turn stuff over:
“That was a court order. That wasn’t a request,” Judge Sullivan said at a February 13 hearing. “I didn’t ask for them out of the kindness of your hearts….Isn’t the Department of Justice taking court orders seriously these days?”
Parallels anyone?0
This discussion has been closed.
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