Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

According to the Navy:

U.S. Navy's Seventh Fleet, Cmdr. Clay Doss, said: "The picture of the Tarp is from Friday and it was taken down on Saturday. Paint barge was also removed ahead of the visit. All ships remained in normal configuration during the President's visit.".

Presumably it shouldn't be hard to find a still or photo from the visit with the ship in the background.

That's not to say that someone in the White House may not have asked either with or without Trump's knowledge, but I really don't see the Navy going along with the idea.

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1134828671427121152?s=19

peddlelies

Interesting Harvard/Harris Poll on impeachment and other matters. It was conducted after Muellers statement.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/446382-poll-majority-oppose-trump-impeachment-but-most-democrats-support-it

Sixty-eight percent of respondents said Democrats in Congress should accept Mueller’s finding that there was no criminal conspiracy and 65 percent said Democrats should accept Attorney General William Barr’s conclusion that the president did not obstruct justice.

Sixty-three percent of respondents said the investigations into Trump are hurting the country. While 58 percent said it’s time for Congress to turn the page on the Russia investigations.

eire4

Dog Man Star wrote: »

To a lot of Americans, Trump is a personal hero. No matter what he says or does, they will back him. It's like me and Morrissey. I adore the man, I don't care what his political views are, they make no difference to me and I will defend him all day (well almost).

But when did Politicians become heroes to Americans? This is the real problem. Morrissey does not affect my take-home pay or deny me a GP. The adoration of a man like Trump with immense power is new. I watched Justin Amash's townhall last week and two Trump supporters criticised him. Both were wearing Trump merchandise and talked in Fox News soundbites.

Those people are lost. There is no talking to them. The Dems need to understand that you cannot turn these people, they should be ignored. The real fight is to motivate the non-voters to vote and that is who they should address. And impeaching Trump is not a risky decision. It is the only decision.

I will agree with you about the focus being or it should be on attracting non voters. If the Democrats ever actually really tried to be a party that represented the best interests economically of the vast majority of Americans that would be a massive number of potential voters. Over 40% of the American electorate will not vote next year most likely. Sadly the Democrats show little inclination at leadership level in being interested in doing anything to change the system in the US which is clearly broken. It is arguably an oligarchy now rather then a democracy and I see nothing from the Democratic leadership that they have any interest in getting off the bribery gravytrain know as lobbying in DC.

looksee

VonZan wrote: »

I'm not sure why Mueller is getting a free pass here simply to avoid conflict with the president, which is what you're suggesting. His job was to investigate the terms of reference, his statement subsequent to the report being published suggest it was unfinished and simply can't be a conclusion of fact.

He should be made to testify IMO anything else just helps Trump and his core in this deep state narrative. Whatever evidence Mueller has, but hasn't reported on, is obviously not material enough to charge Trump or make conclusions about his involvement; the danger in this evidence becoming politicised is clearly stopping any conclusions being drawn and why Mueller may not being reporting as you state but that's not good for anyone bar Trump leading to more uncertainty and there is no evidence of him being directly involved in something the Democrats have accused him of. They have invested a lot of political capital on this investigation. I don't think this will be the last we here from Mueller on this.

So how do you account for his statement

If we had confidence Trump did not commit a crime, we would have said so

How can it be stated any more clearly than Mueller said it, the President could not be charged because he is President he (Mueller) did not think it was fair to even secretly accuse him as he would not have a court opportunity to answer.

But going back to the first point - to all the Trump supporters here -

If we had confidence Trump did not commit a crime, we would have said so

how can you miss-interpret that?

VicMackey1

Penn wrote: »

I thought it was the same video (edited, slowed down etc) posted by both? Open to correction on that though.

No they were different videos. The video President Trump shared was not slowed down. It was just a compilation of Pelosi stuttering. Many mainstream media sources falsely reported that President Trump shared a video of Pelosi that was slowed down to make her appear drunk! Giving MSM the benefit of the doubt, I would say it was just lazy reporting without any sort of verification or fact checking.

VicMackey1

Penn wrote: »

A video proven to be fake. Acknowledged, by pretty much everyone at this stage, to be fake. Literally, fake news.

Do you think a President sharing fake and edited videos of a political rival is a good thing? Do you think a President spreading misinformation to the public is a good thing?

I am not having a go at you Penn but I noticed that your quoted post received 25 thanks on this thread. That is 25 people that agree with your post that the Presidents video was fake. All of these users are wrong. That is what happens when too much trust is given to MSM.

PropJoe10

looksee wrote: »

So how do you account for his statement

How can it be stated any more clearly than Mueller said it, the President could not be charged because he is President he (Mueller) did not think it was fair to even secretly accuse him as he would not have a court opportunity to answer.

But going back to the first point - to all the Trump supporters here - how can you miss-interpret that?

He's currently on a trolling spree in the Tottenham thread so I wouldn't waste your time.

aloyisious

I'm wondering if Don's continuing attacks on Mueller at a personal level, ref what he claims is RM's anti-trump bias, after he praised RM when the report cane out, will come back to bite him as the attacks keep drawing attention to something the GOP would rather just fade away. The anger-rebound effect has to kick in with the GOP outside the Lindsey Graham circle sooner or later.

At times I think Don is getting the hang of the power of the presidency effect when people listen/hear to what he says [that he has learned the 1st lesson of the presidency - sounding presidential, calm and collected - then he goes and spoils it with his tweets. All the attention is centred on Don not just because he's the favourite whipping-boy but because he deliberately sets out to draw the attention onto himself. That's the puzzle of Don Trump, his ability to be both hero and villain at the same time for both parties.

IMO, the argument that Don has a large loyal camp within the GOP merely because of their dislike of the Democrats has to be fake because it carries with it a message that a sizeable majority of the GOP party voter base are now dumb sycophants not capable of thought processing. Even those here who come across at least as being devils advocates for the GOP admit that Don has lied about his personal presidential achievements at both internal US levels and at international levels on all levels of successful trading and diplomatic agreements.

I think the world would be a safer and happier place to live on if Don would shut up with his rhatoric and B/S and the GOP elders would tell him to STFU and think first.

Manic Moran

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1134828671427121152?s=19

As I said, I didn't see the Navy going along with the idea. Senior leadership basically told the staffers to knock it off and proceed as normal.

Leroy42

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Penn wrote: »

A video proven to be fake. Acknowledged, by pretty much everyone at this stage, to be fake. Literally, fake news.

Do you think a President sharing fake and edited videos of a political rival is a good thing? Do you think a President spreading misinformation to the public is a good thing?

I am not having a go at you Penn but I noticed that your quoted post received 25 thanks on this thread. That is 25 people that agree with your post that the Presidents video was fake. All of these users are wrong. That is what happens when too much trust is given to MSM.

So POTUS shared a video that was editted to only include certain aspects of her speech without context. Edited in this way in order to portray Pelosi in a particular light when anyone watching the full video would never get that impression.

Sounds pretty close to fake to me. What is your definition of fake?

everlast75

VicMackey1 wrote: »

I am not having a go at you Penn but I noticed that your quoted post received 25 thanks on this thread. That is 25 people that agree with your post that the Presidents video was fake. All of these users are wrong. That is what happens when too much trust is given to MSM.

Trump has told 10,000 plus lies, but the MSM is the reason for midtrust.

Okay.

ancapailldorcha

I see pro-Trump posters use the term "MSM" a lot. Does Fox News not count as MSM?

looksee

VonZan wrote: »

His statement is nonsense, that is the whole point. Maybe you should re-read my post instead of trying to force your own agenda here. There is nothing in clear about what Mueller said, I'm not sure why that is so difficult for you to understand.

I'm not sure why people like you find it so difficult to understand. Maybe it says more about you.

You are the one claiming that Mueller has unreported evidence. His statement is perfectly clear to me.

Igotadose

Now going after trade with India: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/01/politics/trump-india-trade-status/index.html
His hero Laffer thinks tariffs are a bad idea: https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/art-laffer-this-is-going-to-be-the-year-of-free-trade-bought-on-by-donald-trump

pixelburp

For the financially ignorant such as myself, I'm right in thinking the 5% tarif slapped on Mexico is going to burn American importers and those on the US side of trade? Mexican businesses won't pay the tarif (though may of course lose export numbers)? If I'm right, it seems like a stunningly obvious gotcha in what is presumably meant to be this grand kick against those perceived as economic rivals.

Again, if my presumption is right, how Trump maintains the sheen as a peerless businessman (outside of the whole cult of personality thing) is baffling.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I see pro-Trump posters use the term "MSM" a lot. Does Fox News not count as MSM?

I have never seen a straight, sensible answer as to how they square that circle. But presumably MSM is a handy pejorative simply meant in the same vein as SJW and the like; "those I don't like, or who speak truths I find uncomfortable". Obviously a bit reductionist on my part, but it often feels that way.

ancapailldorcha

pixelburp wrote: »

For the financially ignorant such as myself, I'm right in thinking the 5% tarif slapped on Mexico is going to burn American importers and those on the US side of trade? Mexican businesses won't pay the tarif (though may of course lose export numbers)? If I'm right, it seems like a stunningly obvious gotcha in what is presumably meant to be this grand kick against those perceived as economic rivals.

Again, if my presumption is right, how Trump maintains the sheen as a peerless businessman (outside of the whole cult of personality thing) is baffling.

Of course it is. They usually justify it through the fiction that the US is somehow being tough by doing this and that they're willing to endure the costs of projecting that image.

pixelburp wrote: »

I have never seen a straight, sensible answer as to how they square that circle. But presumably MSM is a handy pejorative simply meant in the same vein as SJW and the like; "those I don't like, or who speak truths I find uncomfortable". Obviously a bit reductionist on my part, but it often feels that way.

I figured as much. Thought I would ask.

Timberrrrrrrr

VonZan wrote: »

Those years of pining for impeachment have obviously taken its toll.

I'm curious as to what you think Mueller meant when he made his statement?

Outlaw Pete

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I noted that Trump also included Farage in his Valentine list, while characterising Meghan Markle as 'nasty'.

I see this is all over the British rag tops today. He didn't call Meghan nasty. He referred to something she said as nasty. Bit of a difference.

He was responding to being told by a fishing reporting that Meghan hadn't been nice about him and had declared during the campaign that if he was elected she would leave the country. It was that which he was clearly referring to as her being nasty:

"I didn't know that, no, I didn't know that... she will be very good, I hope she is... no I didn't know that she was nasty."

He also then immediately wished her well with her health and said it was good thing to have an American princess and was sure she'd make a good one. Quite magnanimous given how he'd just been told she had spoken of him but sure it's not the first time something trivial Trump has said has been misappropriated by those with an agenda and I highly doubt it will be the last.

eagle eye

jochenstacker wrote:

Deleted post.

Well it's better than the lies above it. Sick to death of everything being twisted to make him look worse.
He does enough stuff to point out but some people are adding stuff and making up stuff. It's ridiculous and it's not helping at all.

batgoat

eagle eye wrote: »

Well it's better than the lies above it. Sick to death of everything being twisted to make him look worse.
He does enough stuff to point out but some people are adding stuff and making up stuff. It's ridiculous and it's not helping at all.

It is pretty representative of how tabloidish he has made the presidency. So it's more the overarching of how he's not behaving appropriately at all.

jochenstacker

eagle eye wrote: »

Well it's better than the lies above it. Sick to death of everything being twisted to make him look worse.
He does enough stuff to point out but some people are adding stuff and making up stuff. It's ridiculous and it's not helping at all.

If you think that Trump quote somehow makes him look statesmanlike, you're onto a road to nowhere.
But of course Trump supporters would defend him if his latest speech was nothing but Wookiee noises.
Granted, it would be an improvement over the usual drivel.

Cody montana

jochenstacker wrote: »

If you think that Trump quote somehow makes him look statesmanlike, you're onto a road to nowhere.
But of course Trump supporters would defend him if his latest speech was nothing but Wookiee noises.
Granted, it would be an improvement over the usual drivel.

I can see the next few days being a total disaster for him.
ðŸ‘

eagle eye

jochenstacker wrote:

If you think that Trump quote somehow makes him look statesmanlike, you're onto a road to nowhere. But of course Trump supporters would defend him if his latest speech was nothing but Wookiee noises. Granted, it would be an improvement over the usual drivel.

I have never thought he looks good. I'm not a fan of the man either.
The problem is that there are thousands if people that have went down to his level to make him look bad. That's sad and it's very annoying.
Hold your head up high and stay there. He'll end his own political career unless people stay down in the pits fighting with him.

batgoat

eagle eye wrote: »

I have never thought he looks good. I'm not a fan of the man either.
The problem is that there are thousands if people that have went down to his level to make him look bad. That's sad and it's very annoying.
Hold your head up high and stay there. He'll end his own political career unless people stay down in the pits fighting with him.

Problem is, there are multiple levels of dodgy behaviour that contribute towards devaluing the office of the president. So they may be small but they are part of an endemic problem.

eagle eye

batgoat wrote:

Problem is, there are multiple levels of dodgy behaviour that contribute towards devaluing the office of the president. So they may be small but they are part of an endemic problem.

What has that got to do with making up stuff and telling lies to make Trump look worse?
My point is you go down in the trenches it's likely you lose. Keep yourself at a higher level and he is the only one that is stinking the joint up.

Brian?

eagle eye wrote: »

What has that got to do with making up stuff and telling lies to make Trump look worse?
My point is you go down in the trenches it's likely you lose. Keep yourself at a higher level and he is the only one that is stinking the joint up.

Who’s making stuff up and telling lies?

TomOnBoard

Brian? wrote: »

Who’s making stuff up and telling lies?

Other than Trump, that is...

He's at 10,100 and counting...

jochenstacker

eagle eye wrote: »

I have never thought he looks good. I'm not a fan of the man either.
The problem is that there are thousands if people that have went down to his level to make him look bad. That's sad and it's very annoying.
Hold your head up high and stay there. He'll end his own political career unless people stay down in the pits fighting with him.

Well, I know, don't sink to their level, let them off, they'll soon make a fool of themselves, the bigger man gives in, the meek shall inherit the earth, the best lesson for them is to fall flat on their face, etc...
I think this attitude that has brought us where we are today. Idiocy must be pointed out and wrongdoing must be pursued.

AMKC

Well he is in the UK now on Marine one on his way to freshen up but still could not help causing more controversy before he landed by tweeting about the London mayor. He said that the mayor had been nasty to him. Well maybe if he was not so nasty and pig-headed then other people would not be nasty to him. Funny he has no problem been nasty to people but if someone is nasty to him he does not like it and whinges like the little child he is and he is supposed to be the president of the US.

eagle eye

Brian? wrote:

Who’s making stuff up and telling lies?

Lots of people who are anti-Trump. Trump loves this because he can prove there is fake news and throw more lies out there.

jochenstacker wrote:

Well, I know, don't sink to their level, let them off, they'll soon make a fool of themselves, the bigger man gives in, the meek shall inherit the earth, the best lesson for them is to fall flat on their face, etc... I think this attitude that has brought us where we are today. Idiocy must be pointed out and wrongdoing must be pursued.

As above, if you make up lies you are just as bad as him. It's also only helping him.
Stay strong but honourable, wait until he shoots himself badly and then ride in on your high horse and take over the place.