Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

listermint

jjpep wrote: »

You asked was the idea of fake media ever challenged. My response/argument was that there was always been a bias to media outlets but the charge by Trump (and his supporters) of fake media was 100% hyperbole and 0% nuance. I've provided links showing how the same stories were reported in different ways by different news organisations.

What is your position?

You know my position i outlined it.

You have opinion pieces dressed up as news, infact you fell for it in your opening post.

The fact you didnt even see that was perplexing based solely on your points alone.

jjpep

listermint wrote: »

You know my position i outlined it.

You have opinion pieces dressed up as news, infact you fell for it in your opening post.

The fact you didnt even see that was perplexing based solely on your points alone.

In that case I picked a bad example then - although in my defense this was what was used in our textbook back in school. But, again, I would argue that the line between is blurred. In the examples given the same storys are presented in such a way that an opinion is given in the presentation of the facts. I would argee there is a huge element of confirmation bias, and that indeed is the point. The news outlet is targeting that demographic.

The phrase fake news then is a total exaggeration, but it is an exaggeration of a real thing. It may be of the few things that trump constantly repeats that actually has a rooting, albeit it contorted almost beyond recognition, in reality.

everlast75

I think that depending on clicks, one person or group controlling a lot of the media and the simultaneous decline of printed media have contributed greatly to the decline of quality reporting.

You can go verify facts via different reputable sources yourself if you want to.

The problem is most don't.

Tell me how

everlast75 wrote: »

I think that depending on clicks, one person or group controlling a lot of the media and the simultaneous decline of printed media have contributed greatly to the decline of quality reporting.

You can go verify facts via different reputable sources yourself if you want to.

The problem is most don't.

There is a vicious circle here, in which the consumer (you and me) play a significant part.

Research by an advertising company (Outbrain) found that negative headlines are much more successful in attracting attention from readers than positive.

Study

• Headlines containing positive superlatives (“always” or “best”) performed 29 percent WORSE than headlines with negative superlatives.
• Headlines containing negative superlatives (“never” or “worst”) performed 30 percent BETTER than headlines with positive superlatives.
• Outbrain’s study concludes, “The average click-through rate on headlines with negative superlatives was a staggering 63 percent higher than that of their positive counterparts.”
• Outbrain also states, “These results were replicated in a subsequent headline study that included data from the months of August – September 2012.”

This article is from 2014. what we have seen happen since then is the increase of micro-targetting (Cambridge Analytica) and echo-chambers (on all sides) so you really have to be dedicated to try to find out just what exactly the truth is.

Igotadose

jjpep wrote: »

The phrase fake news then is a total exaggeration, but it is an exaggeration of a real thing. It may be of the few things that trump constantly repeats that actually has a rooting, albeit it contorted almost beyond recognition, in reality.

When Trump says it, it means: "I disagree with that, and I'm lying." Just ignore it, and belittle those that use it in ordinary conversation by pointing that out. It's an aggressive, hostile phrase, like 'witch hunt' and so on. Wants to show he's a tough guy despite enormous evidence to the contrary (all alone at the WH, oooh)


Just Trump engaging in the endless deflection he tries to use to hide his worst excesses from the public. The good thing is, he's not getting away with it as much, the legal establishment in the US is not so easily deflected.

MadYaker

Lots of talk of the wall these days but how is it that all these proponents of the wall never seem bothered about addressing the reason that so many illegal immigrants flock to America in the first place? It's because American businesses are allowed to hire hundreds of thousands of them due to lax enforcement of immigration and employment laws throughout the country. It seems to me a major crack down on these practices would go a long way to solving the problem and would probably be a lot cheaper than a 20 billion dollar wall that's going to take god knows how long to get built if it even gets funded in the first place.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

This is just nonsense from start to finish. And hugely contradictory. The same people who push for action against climate change are pushing for war with Russia? And "rich foreign students lowering standards while raising fees"? How is that supposed to work? The opposite is actually true. Foreign students help keep fees low by subsidising the local students.

And then there's the peach about the wealthy not paying for the welfare state. Well d'uh that's exactly what Trump is doing with his tax cuts for the rich. In fact the above could be read as a diatribe against Trump, bar the climate change one. Because Trump doesn't know the difference between climate and weather.

It’s only nonsense for people who can’t see the wood for the trees. These liberals have sold out the west to communist dictatorships like China. They want to drown our universities in Marxist ideology and drown our hospitals and schools with illegal Immigrants. Traitors all. Trump has a problem with the climate change champagne socialists because the deal just represents more costs for the average citizen and weakens our ability to compete with China and other cheating regimes. They won’t obey by any climate change laws just like they cheat on trade and steal western tech. You can’t even trust their statistics.

Trump recognizes the real enemy to the west and it is the cancerous liberal fifth column that lives in Washington typified by creeps like Strzok “we won’t let him win” these are the people you are cheer leading for.

prawnsambo

MadYaker wrote: »

Lots of talk of the wall these days but how is it that all these proponents of the wall never seem bothered about addressing the reason that so many illegal immigrants flock to America in the first place? It's because American businesses are allowed to hire hundreds of thousands of them due to lax enforcement of immigration and employment laws throughout the country. It seems to me a major crack down on these practices would go a long way to solving the problem and would probably be a lot cheaper than a 20 billion dollar wall that's going to take god knows how long to get built if it even gets funded in the first place.

This. I had a similar conversation with a Trump supporter before the election and said that if they wanted to stop illegal immigration, they just had to stop the employers from hiring them. His view was that this was too onerous on businesses. The reality is that people don't want to pay the price that hiring locally would add to the cost of produce.

Leroy42

Is "We won't let him win" better or worse than "Lock her up"?

Are you going to post any actual evidence of any of this, or just continue to copy and paste what someone else has told you?

And you have still totally failed to cite anything in the way of evidence that Trump is the person that is going to fix these problems that you seem so convinced of. He is in the top job two years, what has he done to fix these dangers facing the west?

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

It’s only nonsense for people who can’t see the wood for the trees. These liberals have sold out the west to communist dictatorships like China. They want to drown our universities in Marxist ideology and drown our hospitals and schools with illegal Immigrants. Traitors all. Trump has a problem with the climate change champagne socialists because the deal just represents more costs for the average citizen and weakens our ability to compete with China and other cheating regimes. They won’t obey by any climate change laws just like they cheat on trade and steal western tech. You can’t even trust their statistics.

Trump recognizes the real enemy to the west and it is the cancerous liberal fifth column that lives in Washington typified by creeps like Strzok “we won’t let him win” these are the people you are cheer leading for.

This isn't somewhere to paste your manifesto. Respond with actual facts to the posts you quote or just expect to be posting to a vacuum.

Itssoeasy

pearcider wrote: »

It’s only nonsense for people who can’t see the wood for the trees. These liberals have sold out the west to communist dictatorships like China. They want to drown our universities in Marxist ideology and drown our hospitals and schools with illegal Immigrants. Traitors all. Trump has a problem with the climate change champagne socialists because the deal just represents more costs for the average citizen and weakens our ability to compete with China and other cheating regimes. They won’t obey by any climate change laws just like they cheat on trade and steal western tech. You can’t even trust their statistics.

Trump recognizes the real enemy to the west and it is the cancerous liberal fifth column that lives in Washington typified by creeps like Strzok “we won’t let him win” these are the people you are cheer leading for.

Well this a post and a half and lots of talking points from Trump allies in there.

MadYaker

I dunno how to respond to his posts it's all hyperbole and nothing of substance.

In one post he says we should reserve judgement on the mueller investigation and then in another post he says it's a phony investigation being controlled by the democrats. Also Trump is somehow not a member of the elite? The guy owns golf courses all over the world and flys around in an airliner with his name on the side of it. How much more elite can you get unless you're a middle eastern oil baron.

rossie1977

Trump is totally detached from reality right now. He claims federal workers are willing to work for nothing over the holidays because they want $5 billion for border wall. Those who are considered key are being forced to come in and work (even if they had plans or booked holidays) and not get paid on top of it.

2 weeks ago Trump on live TV said he would take full responsibility if a shutdown happened. Now he is blaming the Dems for shutdown.. amazing

pearcider

https://youtu.be/WXHHCuz_COQ

The Mueller probe is going nowhere. He will be gone long before Trump. I can’t wait to see the wall either. You can be sure Donald will get it done as his re election hinges on it.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

This isn't somewhere to paste your manifesto. Respond with actual facts to the posts you quote or just expect to be posting to a vacuum.

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

Leroy42

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

People are clearly listening to your POV, even going as far as asking you to give further explanation. If they were ignoring you they wouldn't bother.

It is not our fault that you have nothing but throwaway lines to add.

So I'll ask again. What has Trump done in his two years in the role that is fixing the issues that you are so concerned with and feel that Trump is the only person able to remedy them, even at the expense of all the mistakes he has done and lies he has told.

Should be simple enough really.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

As if your point of view was some sort of bulwark against your bogeyman du jour. But Trump is doing his absolute best to weaken his allies for his friends in China and Russia. How does that work?

Tell me how

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

You seem to be talking nonsense.
Why don't you rebut some of the arguments that people are using against your Fox news headline statements and then maybe people will tolerate your point of view.

looksee

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

Trump would like nothing better than to have a police state in the US - at least for people with skin in any shade of brown.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

https://youtu.be/WXHHCuz_COQ

The Mueller probe is going nowhere. He will be gone long before Trump. I can’t wait to see the wall either. You can be sure Donald will get it done as his re election hinges on it.

I can't wait to see the wall either. It will be a continuing monument to an idiot who thinks a wall solves a problem that was created inside his own country. And by people like himself.

DrumSteve

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

Why don't you want to live there? They have a wall, don't they?

frag420

DrumSteve wrote: »

Why don't you want to live there? They have a wall, don't they?

Well played!

everlast75

Trump says that if he doesn't get his wall, he will shut down the border for security reasons.

If that solves the problem, why does he need a wall?

pearcider

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump says that if he doesn't get his wall, he will shut down the border for security reasons.

If that solves the problem, why does he need a wall?

Because the US is being swamped with illegals and drugs. Only going to get worse as the banana republics in th Southern Hemisphere continue to export their problems caused by corruption and bad government. The wall will work.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

As if your point of view was some sort of bulwark against your bogeyman du jour. But Trump is doing his absolute best to weaken his allies for his friends in China and Russia. How does that work?

Trump just wants the wealthy western nations that enjoy expensive protection by the US military to pay their share like they agreed to.

Of course this simple fact eludes Obama supporters like you. Obama who absolutely gutted the military under his watch.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

I can't wait to see the wall either. It will be a continuing monument to an idiot who thinks a wall solves a problem that was created inside his own country. And by people like himself.

This makes no sense. Millions are pouring across the Mexico border because their third world countries are corrupt and falling apart. Only a true blue could blame Trump for years of misgovernance by countries like Venezuela and Nicaragua. People vote with their feet. Which is why they leave failed states and try to enter successful ones.

DrumSteve

pearcider wrote: »

Because the US is being swamped with illegals and drugs. Only going to get worse as the banana republics in th Southern Hemisphere continue to export their problems caused by corruption and bad government. The wall will work.

Genuine question...what do you think is one of the root causes of this?

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

This makes no sense. Millions are pouring across the Mexico border because their third world countries are corrupt and falling apart. Only a true blue could blame Trump for years of misgovernance by countries like Venezuela and Nicaragua. People vote with their feet. Which is why they leave failed states and try to enter successful ones.

You're just proving my point. Do you want to go back through US continuously meddling in South American politics or just limit ourselves to the continual turning a blind eye to employers taking on those who cross the border illegally, so that they can get cheap labour and increase their profits? Because those are the things that have created the situation you're getting yourself all angsty and snowflakey about. You reap what you sow and all that.

aloyisious

pearcider wrote: »

This makes no sense. Millions are pouring across the Mexico border because their third world countries are corrupt and falling apart. Only a true blue could blame Trump for years of misgovernance by countries like Venezuela and Nicaragua. People vote with their feet. Which is why they leave failed states and try to enter successful ones.

Really, millions pouring across the Mexico border?

Really, the true blue blaming Trump for years of misgovernment by counties like Venezuela and Nicarauga?

What are the sources for your quotes?

pearcider

DrumSteve wrote: »

Genuine question...what do you think is one of the root causes of this?

Let me guess of course it’s all Uncle Sams fault. Typical left wing thinking. It could never be the fault of the country itself. Of course it’s all a conspiracy by the US. These responses in here confirm what I always knew this thread is just one anti American love in by communist sympathisers.

Even though the west literally owes the USA everything for facing down both Facism and Communism at huge cost to itself. I’m sure your Chinese overlords will be so much more benevolent. Be careful what you wish for.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

Let me guess of course it’s all Uncle Sams fault. Typical left wing thinking. It could never be the fault of the country itself. Of course it’s all a conspiracy by the US. These responses in here confirm what I always knew this thread is just one anti American love in by communist sympathisers.

Even though the west literally owes the USA everything for facing down both Facism and Communism at huge cost to itself. I’m sure your Chinese overlords will be so much more benevolent. Be careful what you wish for.

So not going to answer then?

jjpep

pearcider wrote: »

Let me guess of course it’s all Uncle Sams fault. Typical left wing thinking. It could never be the fault of the country itself. Of course it’s all a conspiracy by the US. These responses in here confirm what I always knew this thread is just one anti American love in by communist sympathisers.

Even though the west literally owes the USA everything for facing down both Facism and Communism at huge cost to itself. I’m sure your Chinese overlords will be so much more benevolent. Be careful what you wish for.

Hilarious. Straight out of the post truth, doald trump playbook. When asked a question, don't answer, attack and throw enough **** at the wall in the hope that it will distract everyone from the fact you didn't answer the question in the first place.

dr.fuzzenstein

pearcider wrote: »

Trump just wants the wealthy western nations that enjoy expensive protection by the US military to pay their share like they agreed to.

Of course this simple fact eludes Obama supporters like you. Obama who absolutely gutted the military under his watch.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2018/12/04/trump-says-u-s-defense-spending-is-crazy-does-that-signal-a-shift/#510f98335248

President Trump shocked the defense establishment on Monday with a tweet describing the current level of U.S. military spending as “crazy,” and endorsing a “meaningful halt to what has become a major and uncontrollable Arms Race.”

But when Trump does the same, it is, of course, a genius move.
The likes of you just automatically parrot everything Trump says without any thinking.

DrumSteve

pearcider wrote: »

Let me guess of course it’s all Uncle Sams fault. Typical left wing thinking. It could never be the fault of the country itself. Of course it’s all a conspiracy by the US. These responses in here confirm what I always knew this thread is just one anti American love in by communist sympathisers.

Even though the west literally owes the USA everything for facing down both Facism and Communism at huge cost to itself. I’m sure your Chinese overlords will be so much more benevolent. Be careful what you wish for.

Can I ask again, what do you think is the root cause of these issues?

Igotadose

In other Trumpy news, the EPA's up to it's mischief once again. Not surprising as they replaced odious Pruitt with a coal baron: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/423115-epa-reconsiders-need-for-mercury-pollution-standards-at-power

Summary: Relaxing mercury pollution standards at power plants. All good. Minamata, anyone?

PopePalpatine

Getting brain damage to own the libs.

12gauge dave

The way people are treated in this thread who show fondness for donald trump or his policies is disgusting.

I could pull multiple quotes of people saying his supporters must have mental health issues and the likes. Listen to yourselves you are name calling because someone doesnt agree with you?
This is a trump hate thread and there is a core of people waiting to jump on and weed out anyone supporting trump like a pack of wolves. Its all im going to say on the matter but new mods are needed on this thread or maybe a pro trump seperate thread for those who are more fond of the man.

everlast75

12gauge dave wrote: »

The way people are treated in this thread who show fondness for donald trump or his policies is disgusting.

I could pull multiple quotes of people saying his supporters must have mental health issues and the likes. Listen to yourselves you are name calling because someone doesnt agree with you?
This is a trump hate thread and there is a core of people waiting to jump on and weed out anyone supporting trump like a pack of wolves. Its all im going to say on the matter but new mods are needed on this thread or maybe a pro trump seperate thread for those who are more fond of the man.

Personally, I'd advocate a minimum post amount before being allowed access to the politics forum in order to stop people coming on here and spouting generic talking points, only to then hit the road before answering any questions posed... but, horses for courses I suppose...

prawnsambo

12gauge dave wrote: »

The way people are treated in this thread who show fondness for donald trump or his policies is disgusting.

I could pull multiple quotes of people saying his supporters must have mental health issues and the likes. Listen to yourselves you are name calling because someone doesnt agree with you?
This is a trump hate thread and there is a core of people waiting to jump on and weed out anyone supporting trump like a pack of wolves. Its all im going to say on the matter but new mods are needed on this thread or maybe a pro trump seperate thread for those who are more fond of the man.

Sorry mate, but I have not called anyone names. And I don't remember anyone else here doing it either. So if you're going to make accusations, a quote or two would be helpful. Thanks.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

So not going to answer then?

I gave you my answer. You’re not interested in any meaningful debate so don’t pretend otherwise. While Mueller runs his gestapo like investigation against his own Commander in Chief, the existential threats to the west and our way of life gather like a storm on the horizon.

pearcider

everlast75 wrote: »

Personally, I'd advocate a minimum post amount before being allowed access to the politics forum in order to stop people coming on here and spouting generic talking points, only to then hit the road before answering any questions posed... but, horses for courses I suppose...

Of course censorship is what you left wingers love. Which is why the tech giants are constantly under pressure by the libs to demonetise and de platform conservative views. This is the face of socialism people.

pearcider

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why are people arguing / engaging someone who very clearly needs help or potentially is a semi automated bot from Russia. I wonder if copying and pasting his sentences into Google find exactly same posts on other sites...
Every time he gets challenged by facts or reality he switches track before going full circle few pages later.

I can not comprehend how any Irish person would willingly support Kremlins agenda and Putin's dystopian authoritarianism. Or Trump's narcissistic fascism.

Hahaha of course it’s all a Russian conspiracy. Same playbook by sore loser democrats. I think the evil Russians spent 3 grand on ads to elect Trump. I would find this hilarious if the genuine threats to the west weren’t so pronounced.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

Hahaha of course it’s all a Russian conspiracy. Same playbook by sore loser democrats. I think the evil Russians spent 3 grand on ads to elect Trump. I would find this hilarious if the threats to the west weren’t so pronounced.

So deeply conservative journalists like Louise Mensch are completely wrong then?

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

So deeply conservative journalists like Louise Mensch are completely wrong then?

I don’t know who that is. But a quick glance of her bio shows her up for a globalist so pretty much the exact opposite of what Trump stands for.

DrumSteve

pearcider wrote: »

Of course censorship is what you left wingers love. Which is why the tech giants ar constantly under pressure by the libs to demonetise and de platform conservative views. This is the face of socialism people.

So no answer then.

I genuinely am curious to see what you think are the underlying causes of these people coming to America and what you reckon the reasons for the corruption and bad government are in their homelands?

The reason why people genuinely rip the piss out of trump supporters on this thread is that not one has ever come in here with a coherent (that’s the important bit) argument as to why he is a force for good in America. It’s always, always this own the libs, your a communist if you don’t like trump/America horse ****.

Telling people to embrace their chinese overlords. Do you not read that back to yourself before you post and realise it makes you sound like a mental case.

pearcider

DrumSteve wrote: »

So no answer then.

I genuinely am curious to see what you think are the underlying causes of these people coming to America and what you reckon the reasons for the corruption and bad government are in their homelands?

The reason why people genuinely rip the piss out of trump supporters on this thread is that not one has ever come in here with a coherent (that’s the important bit) argument as to why he is a force for good in America. It’s always, always this own the libs, your a communist if you don’t like trump/America horse ****.

Telling people to embrace their chinese overlords. Do you not read that back to yourself before you post and realise it makes you sound like a mental case.

China has expanded in one generation from being a third world country with an economy smaller than Australia to being a genuine rival to the US. This economic miracle was made possible by the fifth column in the USA who seem to ignore their human rights abuses and their obsession to topple the US from power. They’ve infiltrated western universities and companies and stolen our technology. They are not a free society and they have enlisted Californian tech companies in their censorship of the internet. They are a single party communist dictatorship and a huge threat to the West.

DrumSteve

pearcider wrote: »

China has expanded in one generation from being a third world country with an economy smaller than Australia to being a genuine rival to the US. They’ve infiltrated western universities and companies and stolen our technology. They are not a free society and they have enlisted Californian tech companies in their censorship of the internet. They are a single party communist dictatorship and a huge threat to the West.

So still no answer then.

12gauge dave

prawnsambo wrote: »

Sorry mate, but I have not called anyone names. And I don't remember anyone else here doing it either. So if you're going to make accusations, a quote or two would be helpful. Thanks.

((((((Why are people arguing / engaging someone who very clearly needs help or potentially is a semi automated bot from Russia.)))))))

I didnt even have to go back through thread history this was said only moments ago.

pearcider

DrumSteve wrote: »

So still no answer then.

How does me informing you of the facts about China make me a mental case? I love how the mods ignore your abuse but if I step out of line they ban me within minutes.

The hypocrisy in this thread is boundless.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

I don’t know who that is. But a quick glance of her bio shows her up for a globalist so pretty much the exact opposite of what Trump stands for.

What's a globalist? Is this the new euphemism for jew? Or is it something else?