Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Leroy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

No chaos has been caused. None. Nothing has changed since he came into office.

Secondly you can avoid him if you just switch off the news (which most do).

Thirdly, it is not his fault the media cover him. The media chooses to focus on him. Most stories related to Trump are trivial nonsense and yet receive ridiculous attention by the media.

Seriously.

Iran deal has been cancelled. The US has been removed from the Paris Accord. NATO has serious questions about its viability. US is now openly hostile to the EU, rather than tacidly.

But yeah, you are right, nothing has changed.

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

Thirdly, it is not his fault the media cover him. The media chooses to focus on him. Most stories related to Trump are trivial nonsense and yet receive ridiculous attention by the media.

He is the President of the United States. Of course the press will report on everything he does and says. The actions and words of the POTUS have consequences. Its not the presses fault that the current POTUS is a absolute tool.

hotmail.com

Leroy42 wrote: »

Seriously.

Iran deal has been cancelled. The US has been removed from the Paris Accord. NATO has serious questions about its viability. US is now openly hostile to the EU, rather than tacidly.

But yeah, you are right, nothing has changed.

The lives of ordinary people in America haven't changed in any way in the last 2 and a half years.

pixelburp

golfball37 wrote: »

I realise trying to keep election promises and delivering on what he promised constitutes not okay for leaders in this part of the world but I don't have a problem with any of that.

His big election promises included repealing the ACA, and building a wall along the Mexican borders, which he has failed to do, because - and to quote the man - 'who knew health could be so complicated?' His tax bill got through, eventually, but in all three cases he has been barely able to corral his own party, and it bares reminding that for the first two years Trump had a Republican majority in Congress & Senate. Takes some doing to have all the cards and still fail to win a hand.

Other actions like leaving the Paris Climate Accord, attempts to remove tonnes of Obama era regulation, or tearing up the current peace deal with Iran are not actions to be applauded. And as mentioned, most Americans did NOT vote for him, as for only the 5th time in election history the candidate with the popular vote did not win the Presidency.

hotmail.com wrote: »

The lives of ordinary people in America haven't changed in any way in the last 2 and a half years.

Demonstrably not true, but dint of the aforementioned healthcare repeal attempts. Most polls showed Americans to be dead-set against it, and the changes that have got in were transparent attempts to remove healthcare from ordinary folks. The tax bill is still a work in progress and my belief is that a short term bump in money skews more in favour of corporations in the medium-long term; while other bills passed will have a knock on effect on the populus - but it's simply not true that Trump hasn't had an effect.

RandomName2

Christy42 wrote: »

The Chinese government is terrible. There is no doubt about that. So why protest.

Christy42 wrote: »

This protest is about Trump but for the Irish government. Ireland has been traditionally close to the US. This is showing there is a bigger gap now in our values since Trump was elected and informing our elected leaders of the fact that people feel that the US has regressed.

I don't know if I've picked this up correctly so I have to ask. Is your argument is that the protests are to try and encourage the Irish government to distance itself from America. Really? :eek:

hotmail.com wrote: »

Thirdly, it is not his fault the media cover him. The media chooses to focus on him. Most stories related to Trump are trivial nonsense and yet receive ridiculous attention by the media.

To be fair he is also an attention whore.

Professor Moriarty

hotmail.com wrote: »

The lives of ordinary people in America haven't changed in any way in the last 2 and a half years.

Poor people have got poorer under Trump.

hotmail.com

everlast75 wrote: »

So he is the most ineffective president ever? Is that your stance?

Things have changed. See Leroy's post. The international position of the US has changed dramatically. See their relationships with Russia, China, Mexico, the E.U, Nato etc etc



So I should ignore what he is doing? Your advice is that I should effectively stick my fingers in my ears, rather than pay attention to the most powerful man in the world?

From an Irish point of view he isn't the most powerful man. The leaders of the European countries are. So perhaps shift your focus to them.

As regard your first point. You think anything but criticism of Trump equals support for him. Ridiculous.

Perhaps you need to switch off the news??

rossie1977

golfball37 wrote: »

I realise trying to keep election promises and delivering on what he promised constitutes not okay for leaders in this part of the world but I don't have a problem with any of that.

He has kept about 17% of his campaign promises so far. Even his big promises like building a wall and getting Mexico to pay for it, investigating Hillary, replacing ACA..none of those have even got off the ground.

The American people chose to elect him and presumably will chose not to next year if he is doing such a terrible job. It’s not really our business either way.

He is not waging unjust international wars like GW Bush or killing civilians indiscriminately with drone strikes like Obama or in the case of the Chinese whitewashing a massacre of their own people this week. Funny we had no protest when the Chinese delegation was here recently? No the Don’s crime is he speaks his mind and we can’t tolerate that above all else.

The states are major allies of Ireland and the EU so yeah it's important who is in the White House because their actions will have a massive knock on effect on us. Ireland isn't tied to China in same way and obviously their culture, politics etc differs greatly from ours (speaking as someone who has visited China a number of times last 4 years).

Pretty sure there were protests but Chinese leader isn't as high profile as us president. Ask 100 people to name Chinese president and I would say 90% would struggle

As far as drone attacks go actually Trump has escalated them https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers and civilian casualties have increased massively, in fact Trump had passed Obama by summer of first year https://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-already-killed-more-civilians-obama-us-fight-against-isis-653564

It's gotten so bad that Trump signed an order to not disclose deaths https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207

hotmail.com

pixelburp wrote: »

Demonstrably not true, but dint of the aforementioned healthcare repeal attempts. Most polls showed Americans to be dead-set against it, and the changes that have got in were transparent attempts to remove healthcare from ordinary folks. The tax bill is still a work in progress and my belief is that a short term bump in money skews more in favour of corporations in the medium-long term; while other bills passed will have a knock on effect on the populus - but it's simply not true that Trump hasn't had an effect.

Is this the best you can do?

These changes would have been brought in by any Republican president.

The moral panic about Trump hasn't materialised. The few people that still bang on about Trump need to move on.

hotmail.com

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He is the President of the United States. Of course the press will report on everything he does and says. The actions and words of the POTUS have consequences. Its not the presses fault that the current POTUS is a absolute tool.

This just isn't true.

Not everything the US President does is relevant or important for the media to cover.

duploelabs

hotmail.com wrote: »

This just isn't true.

Not everything the US President does is relevant or important for the media to cover.

Considering he's the ability to wipe out the world with a push of the button, everything he does is relevant and important

duploelabs

hotmail.com wrote: »

Is this the best you can do?

These changes would have been brought in by any Republican president.

The moral panic about Trump hasn't materialised. The few people that still bang on about Trump need to move on.

In that case, Can you point me to a previous republican president who's had over seventeen different investigations in to him and his affairs/business? He's not just any republican president

pixelburp

hotmail.com wrote: »

Is this the best you can do?

These changes would have been brought in by any Republican president.

The moral panic about Trump hasn't materialised. The few people that still bang on about Trump need to move on.

"Best you can do?" You made the claim Trump has done nothing to have an affect on the typical American. This is patently not true, between Health, Taxation, Jobs (see the bailouts needed as part of this 'trade war' that he claimed are "easy to win") and even ICE for the swathes of immigrants now living in a constant limbo; but wave it away with some whataboutery? C'mon.

hotmail.com

duploelabs wrote: »

Considering he's the ability to wipe out the world with a push of the button, everything he does is relevant and important

Moral panic nonsense.

mcmoustache

RandomName2 wrote: »

From a pragmatic point of view I'm not sure exactly how wise it is to selectively target the leader of a country which is one of our largest investors, when that leader is known for being capricious and mercurial.

I heard that argument a lot when we were protesting Bush and the Iraq war.

It was stupid back then and it's stupid now. Private American companies go where it's profitable. The likes of Apple aren't going to up and leave just because Trump's feelings were hurt.

hotmail.com

pixelburp wrote: »

"Best you can do?" You made the claim Trump has done nothing to have an affect on the typical American. This is patently not true, between Health, Taxation, Jobs (see the bailouts needed as part of this 'trade war' that he claimed are "easy to win") and even ICE for the swathes of immigrants; but wave it away with some whataboutery? C'mon.

You can't point to any significant changes in the lives of ordinary people. The economic system is the same.

With any president/administration comes moderate changes. That's my point.

The fundamentals are the same.

MrFresh

hotmail.com wrote: »

This just isn't true.

Not everything the US President does is relevant or important for the media to cover.

Apparently it is. The right wing media seemed to think so before Trump was elected. Obama and his tan suits and mustard choice were practically treason.

marno21

It will take a few years for us to learn the long term impacts of putting a totally unfit individual, who has engaged in behaviour on a daily basis which would have taken down previous presidents, has clearly broken the law while President, and who is taking on American allies and gotten friendly with American enemies during his stint.

It will be interesting to see if the impact this has on the future of the US and the long term negative impacts will be worth it to those who turn a blind eye to all this because it results in "owning the libs".

duploelabs

hotmail.com wrote: »

Moral panic nonsense.

What do you define as 'moral panic nonsense'?

hotmail.com

duploelabs wrote: »

What do you define as 'moral panic nonsense'?

Talking about blowing up the world.

rossie1977

Yeah Obama got wall to wall coverage over a salute, his birth cert, a tan suit and dijon mustard.

We had years of coverage on Benghazi and emails and Hillary wasn't even president.

If anything the media haven't reported stuff on Trump. Obama got so much negative press over Drone strikes yet Trump gets none despite massively increasing strikes.

Igotadose

MrFresh wrote: »

Apparently it is. The right wing media seemed to think so before Trump was elected. Obama and his tan suits and mustard choice were practically treason.

Let alone his feet up on a desk.

And, shall we even dip a toe into what the tGOP media said about his opponent?

I'd rather not, but any and all behaviors and statements by a public figure are fair game.

pixelburp

hotmail.com wrote: »

You can't point to any significant changes in the lives of ordinary people. The economic system is the same.

With any president/administration comes moderate changes. That's my point.

The fundamentals are the same.

Trying to abstract the actions of the President doesn't wash: the system conveys a lot of legislative power on the President, thus the actions can be traced back to him. His election promises included building a wall around Mexico, repealing 'Obamacare' and re-jigging the tax bill. Not to mention an overall 'America First' approach manifest in the aforementioned Trade War - this is all Trump. The recent Trade War has most people scratching their heads and the knock-on efect has been the necessity to include BailOuts, which considering the Reps. are the party of the fiscal conservative, is kind of hilarious in its hypocrisy.

Were it something AN Other Republican was behind, then the Healthcare repeal and Tax Bills would have breezed through both Houses - instead the latter barely scrapped by while the former died a death. Trump is described as "The useful idiot", arguably seen in his choices for Supreme Court (which Mitch McConnell has said is the priority as far as he's concerned).

duploelabs

hotmail.com wrote: »

Talking about blowing up the world.

That's not a definition

Igotadose

hotmail.com wrote: »

Moral panic nonsense.

"I too have a Nuclear Button, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than his, and my Button works!"

hotmail.com

rossie1977 wrote: »

Yeah Obama got wall to wall coverage over a salute, his birth cert, a tan suit and dijon mustard.

We had years of coverage on Benghazi and emails and Hillary wasn't even president.

If anything the media haven't reported stuff on Trump. Obama got so much negative press over Drone strikes yet Trump gets none despite massively increasing strikes.

The drone strikes by Obama and Trump don't receive enough attention!

Irish people should be horrified by the drone strikes ordered by successive US presidents. Their party affiliation should be irrelevant to us.

Hurrache

hotmail.com wrote: »

Moral panic nonsense.

Well, at least we've moved on from leftie snow flakes.

jochenstacker

hotmail.com wrote: »

Is this the best you can do?

These changes would have been brought in by any Republican president.

The moral panic about Trump hasn't materialised. The few people that still bang on about Trump need to move on.

Well, they won't and if you don't like it you can jog on.

Christy42

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't know if I've picked this up correctly so I have to ask. Is your argument is that the protests are to try and encourage the Irish government to distance itself from America. Really? :eek:



To be fair he is also an attention whore.

Distance ourselves from recent American policies to be more specific. To be fair the Irish government has not held ties too closely with Trump.

The statement that Ireland is closer to Boston than Berlin should be questioned (though in the specific case of Boston it is incredibly European as a city in comparison to others in the US).

I don't mean cutting off trade links or state visits or anything so drastic. Just to show the people are not in agreement with new policies in the US. That fawning over Trump, teaming up with them on controversial policies (like the sexual violence in war bill) in the UN etc. will generally lose votes in this country.

MrFresh

marno21 wrote: »

It will take a few years for us to learn the long term impacts of putting a totally unfit individual, who has engaged in behaviour on a daily basis which would have taken down previous presidents, has clearly broken the law while President, and who is taking on American allies and gotten friendly with American enemies during his stint.

It will be interesting to see if the impact this has on the future of the US and the long term negative impacts will be worth it to those who turn a blind eye to all this because it results in "owning the libs".

The damage he has done to domestic institutions and foreign relations are foreseeable by all but his supporters it seems.