Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

eagle eye

volchitsa wrote:

Anyway, as POTUS, Trump is responsible for setting the tone. And that's the tone he sets, because it has been his MO for decades. So please, no pretence that he is only responding to insults, he's not. It's how he functions.

I'm not disagreeing with you about Trump.
I said they are as bad as he is.
I'm not going searching for examples, there have been plenty of lies told by brainless haters.
They are the ones make a mess of the whole thing. It's hard to pinpoint with these fools muddying the water, they are just getting in the way and actually helping Trump because of their stupidity.

pixelburp

The problem is that Trump has finally allowed the Cult of Personality that exists in US politics to come to its natural, zealous fruition. The Kennedys, Reagan, Obama, take your pick it has always been there, but Trump is a grand mutation of this because he has spent his life cultivating his name as a brand - a dangerous cocktail.

It's all well and good asking for sober heads to prevail, but when his most ardent supporters will literally bend logic to wave away the thousands of lies their point of admiration trots out, how can you prevail? Or worse, the invariable slip and lie told by the other side is leapt on with equal ferocity into some lame narrative of "anti Trumpers" or "Derangement syndrome". It's infuriatingly disingenuous and hypocritical. That one story CNN runs that turns out a lie is a j'accuse, while ignoring the countless, endless line of Hannity & co on Fox that gets away with bare-faced lies on behalf of a businessman grifting his way through the Presidency.

Professor Moriarty

eagle eye wrote: »

I can't agree with that, there are politics followers who are well informed and hate Trump but then there's the brainless group which is quite large.

There is stupidity and ignorance in both camps. However, the Trump fanatics tend to be more stupid and more ignorant than the Trump haters.

Gbear

pixelburp wrote: »

The problem is that Trump has finally allowed the Cult of Personality that exists in US politics to come to its natural, zealous fruition. The Kennedys, Reagan, Obama, take your pick it has always been there, but Trump is a grand mutation of this because he has spent his life cultivating his name as a brand - a dangerous cocktail.

Not only that, but he's the apotheosis of it because he's utterly devoid of substance.

Whatever about Bush himself, he had a functional apparatus of government. He had a cabinet. One might reasonably argue they were monsters, but they were there and they had a plan.

For Trump, beyond a broad notion to dismantle government, spur hatred towards minorities and give handouts to the wealthy, there's very little. His cabinet has largely been a revolving door of stooges and sycophants with no qualifications.

He's the perfect example of a cult of personality leader because that is all he is.

duploelabs

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you about Trump.
I said they are as bad as he is.
I'm not going searching for examples, there have been plenty of lies told by brainless haters.
They are the ones make a mess of the whole thing. It's hard to pinpoint with these fools muddying the water, they are just getting in the way and actually helping Trump because of their stupidity.

To paraphrase himself, it sounds like you're saying there are good people on both sides.

But that therein is the problem, if you don't like Trump and the manner that he conducts himself then you're a libtard cuck. Perhaps he's just an a$$hole and has brought shame on the office of which he holds

mcmoustache

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you about Trump.
I said they are as bad as he is.
I'm not going searching for examples, there have been plenty of lies told by brainless haters.
They are the ones make a mess of the whole thing. It's hard to pinpoint with these fools muddying the water, they are just getting in the way and actually helping Trump because of their stupidity.

I'm really not understanding this.

Were there high profile lies about Trump in circulation with wide acceptance among those who dislike Trump?

Christy42

Both sides are not equal. 10,000 lies from the man himself with aides in jail. Alternative facts being pushed.

Democrats are not near that.

It is like calling a football match a draw because both sides scored when it finished 32-4.

As long as he is there the right wing has no credibility in the states. Either put someone in who knows the basics and can listen for a 15 minute briefing and a conversation can happen. Until then it is just playing chess with a pigeon with (nearly) half the people are declaring that knocking all the pieces down was a brilliant tactical manoeuvre.

All both sides arguments do is push everyone to the extreme. Because the more extreme I am the closer the center gets to my preferred option.

Midlife

eagle eye wrote: »

I can't agree with that, there are politics followers who are well informed and hate Trump but then there's the brainless group which is quite large.

There are lies and mistruths on both sides but there's no equivalence.

Anyone who supports Trump began with supporting a man who pushed the birther conspiracy, that is, a spiteful racially-motivated lie.

You can't wash that away, being comfortably with a man who is clearly racist, spiteful and a liar.

I can't stand Trump, I can't really stand CNN either, but I'm not supporting CNN. That's the difference.

Saying they're the same people away with backing a racist liar.

everlast75

Every person telling lies should be called out on it.

People should be given a chance to correct the record.

Truth is the main problem that Trump et al have an issue with and the truth will be his undoing.

Anti-Trump people, of which I am a card carrying and proud member, need to keep their head and stay with the facts, as frustrating as that can be. Especially when "a lie is half way around the world before the truth has its boots on".

Stallingrad

Just watched Get Me Roger Stone. Anyone remotely complacent about 2020 should watch this to remind themselves just how vicious the fight will be, personally I feel the game has changed and I don't think the Dems have the stomach for the fight, the right candidate and are going to be on the back foot from the off. It really will be Trumps to lose.

duploelabs

Stallingrad wrote: »

Just watched Get Me Roger Stone. Anyone remotely complacent about 2020 should watch this to remind themselves just how vicious the fight will be, personally I feel the game has changed and I don't think the Dems have the stomach for the fight, the right candidate and are going to be on the back foot from the off. It really will be Trumps to lose.

Problem is is that I can't see Roger Stone being available for the 2020 election

Billy Mays

Outlaw Pete wrote:

Seems the threat of tariffs has had the effect Trump believed it would:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...55057667989511


Great president. Important issue and finally it seems the US has a president willing to do what it takes to solve it.

So you're annoyed that people might have been taken in by a lie so?

What are your opinion on the 10000+ lies peddled by DJT so? You'd hardly agree with him if you think the lying and agreeing with lying are -regardless if their focus - just plain wrong.

Billy Mays wrote: »

Any chance of you answering this question?

##Mod Note##

No Memes please.

Igotadose

Jobs numbers from May looking fairly ugly:
1. ADP showing small businesses dropped 50,000 jobs: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/adp-national-employment-report-private-121500036.html
2. Job numbers from March and April revised down by a total of 75,000 jobs: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/nonfarm-payrolls-unemployment-rate-may-2019.html

Small business dropping jobs is a fairly big deal as described here: https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/448143-mays-employment-data-is-worse-than-we-think

Dog Man Star

Warren is gaining momentum fast and is now ahead of Biden and Sanders in some polls.

How relieved will the US allies, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau, etc. to meet with Warren to reinforce NATO, the Paris Accord and economic trade agreements after the debacle of Trump. Warren, of course, no slouch to economics and commercial law having being a Professor at Harvard, before her political achievements.

And how displeased will Kim Jong Un, Putin and Xi to face an educated, experienced Senator like Warren. A woman who has taken on the US Banks and set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to shield Americans from them.

Yes, I'm a huge fan, but I believe Warren is the candidate to turn Americans against the lie that is Trump.

PopePalpatine

duploelabs wrote: »

Problem is is that I can't see Roger Stone being available for the 2020 election

Problem is, how many have learned from him?

spacecoyote

He's getting very fond of the executive privilege thing isn't he?

This time hes blocked an investigation into the addition of the citizenship question to the 2020 census

rossie1977

The possibility of another 4 years of Trump and worse losing another possible 2 supreme court seats for a lifetime will invigorate the Democrats.

Its going to be an ugly campaign but I think voters are already immune to the insults as Trump's latest ones against Biden have barely caused a ripple.

Biden is leading Trump by 13 points nationally in latest Quinnipiac poll and leading Trump in Iowa, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, North Carolina (states Trump won in 16) . He is even leading Trump in Texas and no Dem has led in any Presidential poll in Texas since 1992.

Trump is most polarising President probably in history. In any other campaign the Dems would half-hearted put forward a candidate not really expecting to win but I don't see that happening this time.

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Warren is gaining momentum fast and is now ahead of Biden and Sanders in some polls.

How relieved will the US allies, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau, etc. to meet with Warren to reinforce NATO, the Paris Accord and economic trade agreements after the debacle of Trump. Warren, of course, no slouch to economics and commercial law having being a Professor at Harvard, before her political achievements.

And how displeased will Kim Jong Un, Putin and Xi to face an educated, experienced Senator like Warren. A woman who has taken on the US Banks and set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to shield Americans from them.

Yes, I'm a huge fan, but I believe Warren is the candidate to turn Americans against the lie that is Trump.

Biden is still comfortably ahead in all the major polls https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/democratic_nomination_polls/

hotmail.com

rossie1977 wrote:

Its going to be an ugly campaign but I think voters are already immune to the insults as Trump's latest ones against Biden have barely caused a ripple.

Biden supports cuts to social welfare and healthcare.

Presumably he will be a disaster for poor voters in America.

AbusesToilets

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Warren is gaining momentum fast and is now ahead of Biden and Sanders in some polls.

How relieved will the US allies, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau, etc. to meet with Warren to reinforce NATO, the Paris Accord and economic trade agreements after the debacle of Trump. Warren, of course, no slouch to economics and commercial law having being a Professor at Harvard, before her political achievements.

And how displeased will Kim Jong Un, Putin and Xi to face an educated, experienced Senator like Warren. A woman who has taken on the US Banks and set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to shield Americans from them.

Yes, I'm a huge fan, but I believe Warren is the candidate to turn Americans against the lie that is Trump.

She's the best candidate by some distance imo. I fear Biden will win the nomination though. Another big business Democrat, from the Clinton school of governance.

jochenstacker

hotmail.com wrote: »

Biden supports cuts to social welfare and healthcare.

Presumably he will be a disaster for poor voters in America.

As opposed to Trump?
But maybe they have to put forward someone fairly middle of the road to capture more votes from the middle.
If they put someone radical upfront, it will scare the more conservative undecideds.

Itssoeasy

Hope hicks will testify before the house judiciary committee next week according to nbc news. Let's see how far down the food chain the Trump administration try to push her after this. I've seen reporting that while hope hicks was part of Trumps inner circle and one of his few trusted people, she wasn't going to go to jail for him and it seems that's true.

hotmail.com

jochenstacker wrote: »

As opposed to Trump?
But maybe they have to put forward someone fairly middle of the road to capture more votes from the middle.
If they put someone radical upfront, it will scare the more conservative undecideds.

So Biden's policies are irrelevant once he gets elected? Once he's a Democrat..?

Jamiekelly

hotmail.com wrote: »

Biden supports cuts to social welfare and healthcare.

Presumably he will be a disaster for poor voters in America.

Biden is already doing the exact same nonsense as Hilary did in 2016. He is basically expecting to be the candidate based entirely on name recognition. He's already acting like it's going to be a coronation of sorts. Healthcare is one of the key issues that any democrat worth their salt should be hammering home to voters especially after Trump's failure in his "repeal and replace" plan that just became repeal and give up. The fact that he doesn't seem to even have a plan with healthcare despite being in Obama's white house is a little insulting.

I'm going to guess that he slowly drops in the polls once the debates come around and he's caught out on a few key policies that the likes of Warren, Sanders, Harris and Yang have figured out.

rossie1977

Jamiekelly wrote: »

The fact that he doesn't seem to even have a plan with healthcare despite being in Obama's white house is a little insulting.

He was big part of getting ACA written into law. He doesn't need another plan as that is something already in place and very popular even in strong Republican states.

Obviously universal healthcare in the US is eventual goal but its a bit fruitless promising it this campaign because odds of delivering it are practically zero given the partisanship of us politics. If Obama couldn't even get Republicans to negotiate on a healthcare plan that borrowed heavily from a previous Republican one there is no chance any Republican would consider talking over Universal plan.

AbusesToilets

rossie1977 wrote: »

He was big part of getting ACA written into law. He doesn't need another plan as that is something already in place and very popular even in strong Republican states.

Obviously universal healthcare in the US is eventual goal but its a bit fruitless promising it this campaign because odds of delivering it are practically zero given the partisanship of us politics. If Obama couldn't even get Republicans to negotiate on a healthcare plan that borrowed heavily from a previous Republican one there is no chance any Republican would consider talking over Universal plan.

He was also part of the Obama administration that abandoned Universal Healthcare with a majority on both houses, likely at the behest of the industry. He's another empty smile in a nice suit, happy to not rock the boat for those in power.

marno21

I think Elizabeth Warren would be a fantastic President and it’s refreshing to see her doing so well now given the effort she has put into policy to date

Biden wouldn’t be my ideal candidate but I would be willing to support him in a binary choice vs the incumbent

Manic Moran

How relieved will the US allies, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau, etc. to meet with Warren to reinforce NATO, the Paris Accord and economic trade agreements after the debacle of Trump. Warren, of course, no slouch to economics and commercial law having being a Professor at Harvard, before her political achievements.

I was in Toronto last weekend. The general impression I got was that the chances of Trudeau meeting with Warren to reinforce anything are fairly close to zero.

EltonJohn69

The Don will except dirt form China and Russia.... just said it.... that is insane isn’t it ? He doesn’t look right

Jamiekelly

Manic Moran wrote: »

I was in Toronto last weekend. The general impression I got was that the chances of Trudeau meeting with Warren to reinforce anything are fairly close to zero.

Have a source for that?

everlast75

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

The Don will except dirt form China and Russia.... just said it.... that is insane isn’t it ? He doesn’t look right

So we've gone from "no collusion" to "There's nothing wrong with collusion" to "I'll do it again, watch me"