Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'm confused, how is the embassy moving to Jerusalem a positive and a great move by DJT?

Trumpers keep bringing it up because it's the only thing he has really managed to do.

TomOnBoard

Leroy42 wrote: »

If the rally last night is anything to go by, the Trump is going to struggle.

Not with the base, thats locked on. But he needs the swing voters, the non voters. And nothing he said last night is new, or provides any hope for the future.

"It is all about you" seems to be the message they are targeting, which falls flat when he spends 1hour+ complaining how everyone is out to get him!

Its a long way out of course, and he isn't going to give away the plan yet, but his return to HC was, although bread to the masses, going to achieve nothing in terms of his election. Those that hate HC are already on his side and for those not quite on his side it will feel old and pointless.

He was totally rooted in a 2015-2016 time warp. I think there were even reprises of "Lock Her Up!"

Like all dementia sufferers, he''s clearly regressing to the only script he knows. If he regressed much more, I'd be expecting Vera Lynn to appear any time now, with a rousing rendition of "We'll meet again!"

pixelburp

Deleted User wrote: »

Trumpers keep bringing it up because it's the only thing he has really managed to do.

Right, but how is it a net positive? The Middle East is in no better shape than it was before Trumps presidency, in fact it's arguably worse, given the embassy move enflamed tensions, Kushner is completely out of his depth, and a conference in Bahrain to discuss the region won't actually have any Israeli or Palestinian officials present. Like his North Korean "success", no actual quantifiable positive has occurred, just smoke & mirrors, and Trump saying "great success".

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

This thread is quite bizarre, I have to agree.

All week there's been talk of how well Democrats have been doing at the polls.... Déjà vu or what.

Loved it tonight when he said that if he'd deleted one email during the Mueller investigation, even a love note to Melania, they'd have given him the electric chair

Your snark is intentionally misreading certain disquieting facts about Trump, ONCE AGAIN, referring to the 4th estate as "the enemy of the people". You don't have to be a Trump supporter to find that a disturbing thing for any democratic leader to say. He rhetoric is openly hostile towards pillars of democratic principle, and coupled with dogged refusal to engage in various investigations, subpoenas and so on marks him as being ... well, anti-democratic.

Gbear

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Trumpers keep bringing it up because it's the only thing he has really managed to do.

For people who only understand foreign policy in terms of infantile dick waving, it seems like a win.

For everyone else it was a massive symbolic regression in the US' position as mediators in the Israel/Palestine conflict.

aloyisious

This claim that he will cure cancer and eradicate aids if re-elected must hit home with people affected by one or both, regardless of their party affiliation. They have to rebel loudly against such opportunist claims as lies demeaning them, reducing them to mere "campaign promises" tool level while he's attacking their healthcare power. He's a complete and utter snake oil salesman lying through his teeth with those claims.

Christy42

aloyisious wrote: »

This claim that he will cure cancer and eradicate aids if re-elected must hit home with people affected by one or both, regardless of their party affiliation. They have to rebel loudly against such opportunist claims as lies demeaning them, reducing them to mere "campaign promises" tool level while he's attacking their healthcare power. He's a complete and utter snake oil salesman lying through his teeth with those claims.

Link? That seems idiotic even for Trump.

relax carry on

aloyisious wrote: »

This claim that he will cure cancer and eradicate aids if re-elected must hit home with people affected by one or both, regardless of their party affiliation. They have to rebel loudly against such opportunist claims as lies demeaning them, reducing them to mere "campaign promises" tool level while he's attacking their healthcare power. He's a complete and utter snake oil salesman lying through his teeth with those claims.

As chaotic as this presidency is and as unstable/unfit as Trump appears to be for the office, I can't believe he actually said that. Is there a source for this?

MrFresh

Biden also said he would cure cancer didn't he?

aloyisious

aloyisious wrote: »

This claim that he will cure cancer and eradicate aids if re-elected must hit home with people affected by one or both, regardless of their party affiliation. They have to rebel loudly against such opportunist claims as lies demeaning them, reducing them to mere "campaign promises" tool level while he's attacking their healthcare power. He's a complete and utter snake oil salesman lying through his teeth with those claims.

It reeked of desperation, and will sink his campaign. Echoes of Hillary's "deplorables" remark which follows her to this day. I won't try to defend Joe with deference to his advancing years, such an incomparably stupid assertion deserves only ridicule.

volchitsa

relax carry on wrote: »

As chaotic as this presidency is and as unstable/unfit as Trump appears to be for the office, I can't believe he actually said that. Is there a source for this?

Amazingly, the answer is yes, lots.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-live-rally-2020-election-polls-hope-hicks-testimony-mueller-russia-a8964781.html

volchitsa

MrFresh wrote: »

Biden also said he would cure cancer didn't he?

The Biden Cancer Initiative has the advantage of actually existing though, and Biden hasn't promised to eradicate AIDS and put people on the moon while he's about it. Making cancer your priority is one thing, promising a bunch of impressive fantasies when you've done nothing concrete about any of them is quite another.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

It reeked of desperation, and will sink his campaign. Echoes of Hillary's "deplorables" remark which follows her to this day. I won't try to defend Joe with deference to his advancing years, such an incomparably stupid assertion deserves only ridicule.

Just on the HC deplorables remark, is there anything to show that she was indeed incorrect?

The idolise a man that shows racist tendencies, has admitted to being open to foreign intervention, has picked Putin over his own security services, has demeaned the FBI and CIA, has openly used the POTUS office to further his own business and that of his family. His own lawyer is in jail, his NSA is in jail, his Chairman of he campaign is in jail.

Christy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Just on the HC deplorables remark, is there anything to show that she was indeed incorrect?

The idolise a man that shows racist tendencies, has admitted to being open to foreign intervention, has picked Putin over his own security services, has demeaned the FBI and CIA, has openly used the POTUS office to further his own business and that of his family. His own lawyer is in jail, his NSA is in jail, his Chairman of he campaign is in jail.

Saying it like it is only applies to minorities. Insult Trump supporters and suddenly they get very politically correct (see also: kneeling at a football game).

Putting a number on it didn't help either.

But no she was not incorrect but she didn't need to encourage those people to the ballot box.

jochenstacker

The answer is yes. His die hard fans love him because he is a blowhard and they love every single divisive thing he's ever said and done.
They voted for him because they want a return to the good old days, where the US is superior to everyone else in the world, but not only that, the white, Christian, English speaking, male US is better than anyone else.
And with that it is very important to goad and belittle anyone who doesn't fit in with that stereotype, minorities, wimmin, "sh*thole" countries, people of the wrong faith and so on.
Their desire to elevate themselves above anyone else and make themselves superior is what makes them deplorable. Utterly.
They should not be pandered to in any way and in fact their rotten attitude needs to be highlighted and pointed out.
It needs to be socially unacceptable to be a deplorable person and they need to be sidelined. Since they will never be a majority, they can be safely ignored.

Midlife

The completly blinkered Trump fans make me laugh.

Economy is on the up is the one they all cling to

..and we know all the other stuff is going to happen because America's great again!!! So that's space ships, cancer cures, end to immigration, what else?

Four years ago it was try Hillary, build the wall, infrastructure and repeal and replace. It's so simple folks, repeal and replace on one day. What happened to all of those promises?

Trump was right about one thing though. It's so so simple. People will just believe whatever they choose to.

Objectively, with so little done that can't be undone. And only tax passed through a senate you control. Anyone who's saying this is a successful presidency is deluding themselves.

I'm not saying i agree wiht them, but think if the democrats get both houses and the presidency, how many things will they get through that will shape america for generations? More than one I'd guess.

Trump's presidency is at a minmum as good as Obama's last four years. Worse if you judge pi55ing off everyone around the world as a negative.

Jamiekelly

MrFresh wrote: »

Biden also said he would cure cancer didn't he?

Biden is looking more and more senile with each passing week. Bill Clinton is looking quite rough lately and he's actually 4 years younger than Biden. I don't think he will actually be the nominee for the Dems, even if he wants to be. I seen that speech and it was embarrassing and was bordering on Trump's slurring words and rambling tone. Even his claim that he would cure cancer seemed to get an odd reaction from the crowd.

Outlaw Pete

Gbear wrote: »

For people who only understand foreign policy in terms of infantile dick waving, it seems like a win.

For everyone else it was a massive symbolic regression in the US' position as mediators in the Israel/Palestine conflict.

pixelburp wrote: »

Right, but how is it a net positive?

It's a positive because Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and it's where it belongs. Which of course is why the last three presidents have said they would do it, in a bid to get elected, but then didn't when they were.

There is also the fact the Senate supported the move:

Senate prods Trump to move Israeli Embassy to Jerusalem

The Senate overwhelmingly agreed on Monday night to nudge President Donald Trump to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, a campaign promise that he punted on last week.

The Senate voted 90-0 on a resolution marking the 50th anniversary of Jerusalem's reunification. The measure includes language that "calls upon the president and all United States officials to abide by" a 1995 law that urged then-President Bill Clinton to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.

Of course this is yet another 'If Obama had done it he'd have been supported in doing it' moves for sure. People just can't stand that he is actually following through with moves he said he would make during his campaign.

Your snark is intentionally misreading certain disquieting facts about Trump, ONCE AGAIN, referring to the 4th estate as "the enemy of the people".

Not sure what this has to do with anything I said, but happy to address it.

Trump did not call all the media the enemy of the people, he called certain fractions of the media (the liars, the biased, those with zero integrity) the enemy of the people, and they are. What they have facilitated over the last two years is disgusting. They have essentially operated as the propaganda wing of the DNC and deserve to be treated with nothing but contempt.

mcmoustache

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Trump did not call the media the enemy of the people, he called certain fractions of the media (the liars, the biased, those with zero integrity) the enemy of the people, and they are. What they have facilitated over the last two years is disgusting. They have essentially operated as the propaganda wing of the DNC and deserve to be treated with nothing but contempt.

Cmon Pete. Stop telling lies. We have the internet too and don't need to take your unreliable word for it.

Seriously, he says it right here in the tweet below.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1114221533461790721

Outlaw Pete

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

It's a positive because Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and it's where it belongs. Which of course is why the last three presidents have said they would do it, in a bid to get elected, but then didn't when they were.

There is also the fact the Senate supported the move:



Of course this is yet another 'If Obama had done it he'd have been supported in doing it' moves for sure. People just can't stand that he is actually following through with moves he said he would make during his campaign.



Not sure what this has to do with anything I said, but happy to address it.

Trump did not call the media the enemy of the people, he called certain fractions of the media (the liars, the biased, those with zero integrity) the enemy of the people, and they are. What they have facilitated over the last two years is disgusting. They have essentially operated as the propaganda wing of the DNC and deserve to be treated with nothing but contempt.

What Trump and the Gop have presided over is disgusting. Migrant children in what are basically concentration camps, the ridiculous tax cuts for the super wealthy. The steady erosion of democratic principles. The constant lies and dishonesty. How can anyone defend it with a straight face?

TomOnBoard

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Trump did not call the media the enemy of the people, he called certain fractions of the media (the liars, the biased, those with zero integrity) the enemy of the people, and they are. What they have facilitated over the last two years is disgusting. They have essentially operated as the propaganda wing of the DNC and deserve to be treated with nothing but contempt.

Wud ya go away out of that! Do you take us for eejits or something, spouting your rationalisations and explanations as though they are Trump quotes!

Here's one of his countless tweets and utterances on this topic, from Feb 17th, 2017:

"The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!"

Trump has spent almost 3 years at this stage proving that, whenever he characterises a news story as @FakeNews, it has absolutely nothing to do with the provable facts of the story; it is ALWAYS to do with the fact that the story is not a 'lick-ar$e' piece of propaganda that panders to his ego, vanity and delusions. Also, such "FakeNews" is almost always based on provable fact or from informed sources. By contrast, Trump's (by now 11,000+) documented lies are the real fake news that the World has to deal with!

pixelburp

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Trump did not call the media the enemy of the people, he called certain fractions of the media (the liars, the biased, those with zero integrity) the enemy of the people, and they are. What they have facilitated over the last two years is disgusting. They have essentially operated as the propaganda wing of the DNC and deserve to be treated with nothing but contempt.

As mcmoustache has already outlined, this distinction is yours, not Trumps, and his language is pretty unambiguous. And even if it wasn't, you're making a bad-faith argument that ignores the 2 years of his Presidency showing Trump come down hard on any reporting that was negative towards him. His kneejerk reaction is "fake news" (a phrase he claims he invented??), and if it isn't this he is claiming a large portion of the 4th Estate as open for persecution and violence.

Only the other day, he literally claimed polls showing he was trailing behind most Democratic candidates as "Fake Polls". The evidence is pretty clear he is leveraging autocratic language for the sake of a bruised ego, and the most alarming end-result of this were the (thankfully) hoax pipe-bombs sent to various press outlets.

"Enemy of the People" in a country with a known quantity for reacting violently to "othered" targets, is dangerous language -and I suspect you know this, but are affecting whataboutery rather than admit this.

Unless of course, you think "Enemy of the People" is a fair-game phrase against a free press, and should be considered open targets - in which case we have nothing to discuss. Going by your language, that seems to be the case.

Outlaw Pete

TomOnBoard wrote: »

He was totally rooted in a 2015-2016 time warp. I think there were even reprises of "Lock Her Up!"

Like all dementia sufferers, he''s clearly regressing to the only script he knows. If he regressed much more, I'd be expecting Vera Lynn to appear any time now, with a rousing rendition of "We'll meet again!"

lol. A time warp? You think that's all in the past? Bless.

The Durham investigation into the actions of HRC, the FBI & the CIA in the lead up to the 2016 election (and after it) have barely begun.

ancapailldorcha

I think that it's incredibly facile and disingenuous to divide the media into pro and anti Trump camps and then only criticize one side while pretending the other is a paragon of virtue or turning a blind eye to it.

The tweet that mcmoustache linked to above is quite clear. Trump is trying to undermine the free press which is a dangerously authoritarian thing to do.

Billy Mays

Media that doesn't blow smoke up Trump's hole = enemy of the people


Now that you're here Pete could you answer the questions you previously ignored about Trump's 10,000+ lies he's told since he took office and Ingraham saying Trump never said he held up the D-day commemorations for her despite video evidence to the contrary?


Thanks

Gbear

pixelburp wrote: »

"Enemy of the People" in a country with a known quantity for reacting violently to "othered" targets, is dangerous language -and I suspect you know this, but are affecting whataboutery rather than admit this.

In the same way that Trump is an accidental fascist, in how he seeks to subvert democracy and advance a fascist totalitarian agenda, not because he believes they're good on a philosophical level, but because doing so happens to align with consolodation of his own personal power, lining his pockets at the tax payers expense and avoiding the consequences of his crimes, he's also fomenting terrorism.

I don't think it qualifies as stochastic terrorism in the same way a hateful Christian preacher's rhetoric leading to the bombing of an abortion clinic would. In some respect he might want to have the free press eliminated, but there's no conscious strategy at work. He just has a truly embarassingly thin skin and an inability to filter his thoughts before they tumble out of his mouth, so he attacks his "enemies", which amounts to anyone who criticises him for any reason.

If he didn't also actively promote the creation of a cult of personality it also wouldn't be as big of an issue, but again, it's not about wanting to create a cadre of cultists to do his bidding. He just lives for adulation and expects total obedience.

He seems very much like a sort of automaton of excess and simple reward-seeking behavioural patterns. I think it's always best to try to understand his behaviour in those sorts terms. There is no external force on his actions. He simply does whatever will meet the simple need that his brain asks him to without really taking anything but the most rudimentary considerations about how it will affect the world around him.

TomOnBoard

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

A time warp? You think that's all in the past? Bless.

A time warp- Yes. It was like the recent Spice Girls re-union concerts- He went on stage and trotted out all the old tropes and claptrap that worked well for him first time around.. A medley of his "Greatest Hits" and other Bannonisms that induced the predictable response among his cult just like Pavlov triggered his Dog(s). Really, Pete, its long past time he got some new material... the old bull**** is so stale at this stage unless you're one of those who don't see it for what it is. But Hey, Ho! Enjoy the ride from here to there! At least you'll not find much to surprise you as you hear failed 2016 promises re-packaged and served up like last Christmas's dry ould turkey!

BTW, where's the Wall,Pete? And where is Mexico's fleet of armoured cars driving up through Tijuana with the billions of dollars that were going to pay for said wall? What was it again, Pete? A "Great Big Beautiful Wall" wasn't it Pete? From Sea to Shining Sea or some such- was that it Pete?

Give me a break!

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

The Durham investigation into the actions of HRC, the FBI & the CIA in the lead up to the 2016 election (and after it) have barely begun.

I welcome any/all such investigations into alleged impropriety. And, if HRC or Jim Comey or Andrew Mc Cabe or Uncle Tom Cobbley are indicted and tried for crimes, then I'll await the outcome with great interest. And if they're found guilty of a crime, like Manafort, Gates, Papadopolous, Flynn, and the rest, then I'll be happy to hear the President finally achieve at least one of his promises: Lock Her UP!

The fact that the investigation has "barely begun" (so you say) ought to have absolutely nothing to do with a General Election for President of the United States in 2020 and should certainly not anchor the incumbent in a time- warp that will force the country through a Groundhog Day. Its time to move on, Pete! Create some policies! and, hey, Pete: Trying to undo everything Obama did was yeer only policy in 2016... That's not really going to wash in the Rust Belt this time around. They're smart folks there, Pete, and many will have come across grifters in their lifetimes. So, now as they see through all the bull****, and realise that this fella was trying to sell them the Brooklyn Bridge, they're smart folks. They won't be fooled again!

Outlaw Pete

mcmoustache wrote: »

Seriously, he says it right here in the tweet below.

I said he didn't call the media (as a whole) the enemy of the people, not the press, but AGAIN (given I've addressed this before) he is clearly referencing certain fractions within the press, not all the press, when he makes those comments.

For example:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1026069857589227520

And of course 'Fake news media' is more often than not what he says but even if he doesn't, it's always what he means and we know this because when he given longer form avenues to speak on this, like an interview for example, he makes that very clear.

Easy to take a tweet out of context given it's limitations and were it a lone tweet (where the person had never spoken on the matter before) it would be understandable, but Trump has made comments in this regard thousands of times at this stage and so there is no excuse for this nonsense as we know who he is referring to with such remarks.

More examples, this time with clarity:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1025115155632455680
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035122954697433088

So you see: "Much of the media..." / "Large percentage of the media..." etc. Not all.

It's quite clear Trump does not see all the press or media as the enemy of the people, just the mainstream fake news peddlers like CNN, NBC etc. It's dishonest to suggest also (which many do) that he is against the press having the powers that they do and that he is somehow is against even the concept of the press. The following tweet makes that abundantly clear:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1082268365081767936

Leroy42

Ah, so one tweet we have to take in context and nuance, the other should be taken as is as it proves your point!

Come on. Trump claims Fake News as anything he doesn't like and/or paints him in a poor light. Thus the fake news media can mean anything.

Professor Moriarty

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I said he didn't call the media (as a whole) the enemy of the people, not the press, but AGAIN (given I've addressed this before) he is clearly referencing certain fractions within the press, not all the press, when he makes those comments.

For example:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1026069857589227520

And of course 'Fake news media' is more often than not what he says but even if he doesn't, it's always what he means and we know this because when he given longer form avenues to speak on this, like an interview for example, he makes that very clear.

Easy to take a tweet out of context given it's limitations and were it a lone tweet (where the person had never spoken on the matter before) it would be understandable, but Trump has made comments in this regard thousands of times at this stage and so there is no excuse for this nonsense as we know who he is referring to with such remarks.

More examples, this time with clarity:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1025115155632455680
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035122954697433088

So you see: "Much of the media..." / "Large percentage of the media..." etc. Not all.

It's quite clear Trump does not see all the press or media as the enemy of the people, just the mainstream fake news peddlers like CNN, NBC etc. It's dishonest to suggest also (which many do) that he is against the press having the powers that they do and that he is somehow is against even the concept of the press. The following tweet makes that abundantly clear:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1082268365081767936

A tweet from November 2016:

Serious voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire and California - so why isn't the media reporting on this? Serious bias - big problem!

TomOnBoard

Leroy42 wrote: »

Ah, so one tweet we have to take in context and nuance, the other should be taken as is as it proves your point!

Come on. Trump claims Fake News as anything he doesn't like and/or paints him in a poor light. Thus the fake news media can mean anything.

I'm afraid these posts from Pete provide great evidence to prove the Law of Holes!

When yer in one, the 1st thing to do is simple: Stop Digging!