Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Itssoeasy

volchitsa wrote: »

MrFresh wrote: »

Biden also said he would cure cancer didn't he?

The Biden Cancer Initiative has the advantage of actually existing though, and Biden hasn't promised to eradicate AIDS and put people on the moon while he's about it. Making cancer your priority is one thing, promising a bunch of impressive fantasies when you've done nothing concrete about any of them is quite another.

And the Biden cancer comment is clearly rooted in his real life experiences seeing his son and his friend John McCain die of cancer of the brain.

TomOnBoard

Kimsang wrote: »

Yes I accept that, weirdly I didn't know Itenditarians were a far right type group that espoused hateful identity politics. I wonder what the word is for people that play identity politics! Or does this mean we accept identity politics as a bad thing only when one group of people play it. Personally, I'm against it in all its forms.

Apologies for incorrectly linking to the 2018 SOTU.

Michelle Obama's sentiment historically is what the left is about and it is a sentiment I could get on board with. But hypocrisy is revealed when they stoop to his level, and in some cases, far beyond.

The part in bold some might call vindictive. Which is why I was highlighting their action in the first place.

I'm not really sure what is meant by Identity Politics in this day and age. My understanding of the term is basically "like minds stick together" based on something that binds them. To me, that more or less describes every political party and/or grouping in every society outside ones located in/near Utopia.

FatherTed

No more lol comments please.

Water John

So Pelosi and Biden are both accused of slurring their speech. At least be a little more inventive.

Itssoeasy

I know I've said it in the other Trump thread but I'll say it again here. The democrats need to realise who the hell they are facing in Trump. The rules of old are not in play anymore(may come back if the democrats win in 2020) as Trump has if not broken every norm has bent them or ignored them. The norms of the congress where if a White House acted incorrectly they would be pulled on it by the co equal branch of government.

Christy42

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I'm not really sure what is meant by Identity Politics in this day and age. My understanding of the term is basically "like minds stick together" based on something that binds them. To me, that more or less describes every political party and/or grouping in every society outside ones located in/near Utopia.

Defending minorities is Identity politics.

Attacking them is not. I have no idea why but this seems to be the rule. Similar to how PC nonsense is only to allow you to attack minorities you don't like.

Honestly it is just a lazy term to attack those who disagree with you without coming up with an actual argument. The most obvious version of this was when Republicans attempted to bring in laws around who can enter a bathroom and gave out that Democrats were too involved because they opposed it and Republicans didn't care (but also wanted the laws while supposedly not caring about them).

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

So Pelosi and Biden are both accused of slurring their speech. At least be a little more inventive.

Trump was accused of exactly the same thing.

mcmoustache

Water John wrote: »

So Pelosi and Biden are both accused of slurring their speech. At least be a little more inventive.

What's that about oranges?

Kimsang

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I'm not really sure what is meant by Identity Politics in this day and age. My understanding of the term is basically "like minds stick together" based on something that binds them. To me, that more or less describes every political party and/or grouping in every society outside ones located in/near Utopia.

To give an example, everyone that protested to defend statues such as Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville were labelled Nazis and white supremacists by the media, when in truth it was far, far more complicated than that.

"We condemn in the strongest most possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. On many sides," -Trump

This is the first time I thought, well done Trump, and yet the media lambasted him because of it.

Itssoeasy

Kimsang wrote: »

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I'm not really sure what is meant by Identity Politics in this day and age. My understanding of the term is basically "like minds stick together" based on something that binds them. To me, that more or less describes every political party and/or grouping in every society outside ones located in/near Utopia.

To give an example, everyone that protested to defend statues such as Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville were labelled Nazis and white supremacists by the media, when in truth it was far, far more complicated than that.

"We condemn in the strongest most possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. On many sides," -Trump

This is the first time I thought, well done Trump, and yet the media lambasted him because of it.

Well done ? He said people carry torches and shouting "Jews will not replace us" to the people counter protesting those people. So no it wasn't the media that called them neo nazis, it was the people saying what they said that gave themselves away as being that. You'd think Americans given their history would not be okay with people in their country that not messing us condemning neo nazism would be an easy thing to do, but the sitting president made a balls of it.

Also, the former grand wizard of the KKK David duke praised Trump for his both sides mess up. That's a bad look.

Christy42

Kimsang wrote: »

To give an example, everyone that protested to defend statues such as Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville were labelled Nazis and white supremacists by the media, when in truth it was far, far more complicated than that.



This is the first time I thought, well done Trump, and yet the media lambasted him because of it.

I mean someone might have been simply going that way and got dragged along with the march?

I am not really sure why we need to overcomplicate people marching alongside a Nazi flag. It seems pretty simple to me. I mean I guess some people could have been confused as to the exact nature of the march but you have to figure they copped on pretty quick.

I am really curious what level of racism is required to probe racism because I really thought the Nazi flag was a big one. Do they have to sign a confession?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally

rossie1977

Kimsang wrote: »

Its difficult to paint a picture of a snowstorm one flake at a time, but look at the State of the Union address by Trump, and how the media treated it afterwards.
The identitarians are clearly dressed in white, and they only clapped at things that suited them.
<edit URL fixed>

So basically like every sotu.

Go back and watch Obamas sotus and most Republicans sit on the hands throughout.

Funniest thing is two Paul Ryan clips. One during Obamas speech where he stays seated and one during Trump's where he stands clapping and smiling.. Clip is interesting because Obama and Trump almost word for word say exact same sentence.

Kimsang wrote: »

To give an example, everyone that protested to defend statues such as Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville were labelled Nazis and white supremacists by the media, when in truth it was far, far more complicated than that.

This is the first time I thought, well done Trump, and yet the media lambasted him because of it.

There were neo nazis marching with torches in Charlottesville and one of them ran over and killed a protestor.

Trump came out and said there was 'fine people on both sides'. That's why he was criticized.

aloyisious

The Fed has chosen not to alter its rate so Don will probably feel he has to criticize its chairman for the failure to assist the economy and keep the boom going. It seems the chairman laid down a marker some months back "I'm here for 4 years" in respect of Don's comments about changing the leadership of the Fed when it didn't cave in on pressure from Don to alter the rate. TV market news two days ago said the fed would soon change its rate and as a result the market climbed so I expect there will be a slight drop in stock prices over the next few days.

TomOnBoard

So, Hope Hicks strutted her stuff on Capital Hill, and Nadler's Committee was left with absolutely nothing! They weren't even able to delve into anything pre- inaugeration!
FFS!

Kimsang

The planned and sanctioned 'Unite the Right' rally was in opposition to the history revisionists that were also playing identity politics. So although there were literally nazis there, there were also a lot of normal good people opposed to this far left ideology. The A.C.L.U. were also supporting their right to protest.
From what I can tell, violence erupted due to the incendiary nature of the situation combined with poor policing.

"I disapprove of what you're saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

There were also a lot of bad people on the other side also inciting hatred(Antifa & Black lives matter). A lot of video evidence has appeared online since.

TomOnBoard

Just watching Bernie Sanders talking with Chris Cuomo on CNN..

OK... here's my take on dealing with the 24 Dem hopefuls with a view to arriving at a strong candidate to deal with Trump:

Bernie, Yer brilliant... I luv ya... I luv yer energy at yer age... But, Bernie, you need to lay it down. It's over. Make way! You're great, but frankly, you're in the way! Oh, and I'm trying to make it easy on you here.. Keep your dignity intact!

23 more to go!

DreamsBurnDown

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Just watching Bernie Sanders talking with Chris Cuomo on CNN..

OK... here's my take on dealing with the 24 Dem hopefuls with a view to arriving at a strong candidate to deal with Trump:

Bernie, Yer brilliant... I luv ya... I luv yer energy at yer age... But, Bernie, you need to lay it down. It's over. Make way! You're great, but frankly, you're in the way! Oh, and I'm trying to make it easy on you here.. Keep your dignity intact!

23 more to go!

Bernie is toast. His ideals have been adopted by either younger or female more electable candidates, but also ones who are less committed to said ideals. Warren, Harris and O'Rourke will all move to the center. Anyone embracing AOC would be toast in the general election in a good economy.

Wanderer78

DreamsBurnDown wrote:

Bernie is toast. His ideals have been adopted by either younger or female more electable candidates, but also ones who are less committed to said ideals. Warren, Harris and O'Rourke will all move to the center. Anyone embracing AOC would be toast in the general election in a good economy.

Unfortunately I can't see Bernie making it either, but his inclusion in the process could be good, it might help pulling the whole process a bit more to the left. I still think trump will get it over the line in the end

DreamsBurnDown

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unfortunately I can't see Bernie making it either, but his inclusion in the process could be good, it might help pulling the whole process a bit more to the left. I still think trump will get it over the line in the end

A softer version of Bernie would work, the three I mentioned could all pull it off. Beating Trump will not be easy I agree in good economy, can't depend on a downturn.

Kimsang

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Which journalists have "far-left" ideology?

"It’s Not Your Imagination: The Journalists Writing About Antifa Are Often Their Cheerleaders"
Article from Quillette

Of all 15 verified national-level journalists in our subset, we couldn’t find a single article, by any of them, that was markedly critical of Antifa in any way. In all cases, their work in this area consisted primarily of downplaying Antifa violence while advancing Antifa talking points, and in some cases quoting Antifa extremists as if they were impartial experts.

Christy42

Kimsang wrote: »

The planned and sanctioned 'Unite the Right' rally was in opposition to the history revisionists that were also playing identity politics. So although there were literally nazis there, there were also a lot of normal good people opposed to this far left ideology. The A.C.L.U. were also supporting their right to protest.
From what I can tell, violence erupted due to the incendiary nature of the situation combined with poor policing.



There were also a lot of bad people on the other side also inciting hatred(Antifa & Black lives matter). A lot of video evidence has appeared online since.

If a statue makes you march along side Nazis you need to take a good long look at yourself and how ok you are with being seen to support that idealology.

The Nazis were all about identity politics (if you have the wrong one you die). Maybe they should have concerned themselves with the identity politics if those marching beside them first. They also knew from the first step a march waving Nazi flags was never going to stop the statues from being removed, it was not really about the statues or else they would have gotten rid of those flags to give themselves a chance.

It was a civil war statue. The entire civil war was about identity politics.

No one on the other side drove a car into anyone.

Midlife

Kimsang wrote: »

The planned and sanctioned 'Unite the Right' rally was in opposition to the history revisionists that were also playing identity politics. So although there were literally nazis there, there were also a lot of normal good people opposed to this far left ideology. The A.C.L.U. were also supporting their right to protest.
From what I can tell, violence erupted due to the incendiary nature of the situation combined with poor policing.



There were also a lot of bad people on the other side also inciting hatred(Antifa & Black lives matter). A lot of video evidence has appeared online since.

Wow, are you actually becoming a Nazi apologist here?

That's impressive. You should stop watching your youtube feed or whatever is leading you down this myopic distorted path. Read your own article properly and find the clear problems with it. Think for yourself.

Lots of people on both sides don't see the truth for all the rubbish anymore. You should extract yourself from that situation.

spacecoyote

And speaking of identity politics, I guess it's just a terrible coincidence that there was a Proud Boys march in Orlando on the night of Trumps campaign launch?

Akrasia

Kimsang wrote: »

"It’s Not Your Imagination: The Journalists Writing About Antifa Are Often Their Cheerleaders"
Article from Quillette

Its shocking that journalists would agree with anti fascist rhetoric. There should be more balance. Why do these journalists so rarely bring up Hitler's positive attributes....

Professor Moriarty

Kimsang wrote: »

"It’s Not Your Imagination: The Journalists Writing About Antifa Are Often Their Cheerleaders"
Article from Quillette

Oops! You do know that Quillette isn't exactly respected being a flakey libertarian 'magazine'. You do know that the author of the article was subsequently found to be a right wing troll who is banned from Twitter and the article was widely discredited as being malicious and unresearched nonsense? You do know that, ironically, the journalists mentioned in the 'article' were subsequently harassed?

everlast75

TomOnBoard wrote: »

So, Hope Hicks strutted her stuff on Capital Hill, and Nadler's Committee was left with absolutely nothing! They weren't even able to delve into anything pre- inaugeration!
FFS!

2 takes on that.
1) Nadler got played
2) Nadler knew this would happen and did so anyway, to make any application to Court stronger on the basis of such wilful obstruction

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

2 takes on that.
1) Nadler got played
2) Nadler knew this would happen and did so anyway, to make any application to Court stronger on the basis of such wilful obstruction

I think it's absolutely the 2nd option.

Multiple members of the house committee have said as much.

Leroy42

How is refusing to testify any different that the supposed deletion of emails?

Billy Mays

F*ck sake, people still defending the Unite the Right rally


It was organised by neo Nazis/white supremacists, it featured speakers who are neo Nazi/white supremacists and the posters advertising it featured Nazi imagery


But Black Lives Matter and Antifa....

Gbear

Leroy42 wrote: »

How is refusing to testify any different that the supposed deletion of emails?

Rep Ted Lieu came out and called it obstruction of justice without beating around the bush.

Not sure is that true from a legal perspective, but in practice it's clearly obstructing justice.