Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Kimsang

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Okay let's nail this. You posted nonsense from an article written by a bona fide far right troll. He is a far right troll. Full stop. His 'research methodology' is ludicrous at best. You didn't know that. You know now. So your point is wrong. 100% wrong because it is based on the troll's 'article'.

Let's see. Who to believe? A far right troll writing in an ultra libertarian 'magazine' whose HQ is some woman's couch. Or the Colombia Journalism Review, The Huffington Post or The Independent. So hard, must choose...

You know, I like to educate myself by engaging in meaningful debate. With respect, you're not educating me, you're wasting my time.

That's exactly that kind of crap that people are calling out on the left these days. You insult one link I post from dailycaller and ignore everything else. You had one link even close to a 'repubtable source' in CJR, and they released this nugget of an article last month:
"Caster Semenya, and the myth of the uneven playing field"

Last month, the CJR published an article by trans activist Parker Molloy essentially demanding that when it comes to the issue of male-bodied individuals seeking to compete in female athletics, journalists should present only one side of the issue—on the basis that naysayers don’t “have all the facts,” and their words “could be used to reinforce ignorance.” These are thinly coded appeals to de facto self-censorship, and it is strange to see them published by an outlet whose nominal purpose is to promote excellence in journalism.

Facts or it didn't happen.

You or anyone still have not repudiated Lenihan's research, but only call him a troll. Why would you call a publication that leans libertarian; 'ultra libertarian'?

This reveals the hypocrisy of the left and their inability to deal with arguments, and shows how they prefer to attack ad hominem.

Again, i'll issue my challenge to prove me wrong. Quote me a left-leaning publication that shows Antifa in a negative light, this alone will nearly repudiate Lenihans entire research. Its an open challenge to anyone willing to engage, rather than insult with 'right -wing troll'

This is the "ludicrous research methodology" of which you speak;

But Lenihan did share his data with Quillette—including a draft of the academic article he’s written about his research, a list of the 16 Antifa seed Twitter accounts he used as the basis of his analysis, the identity of the 58,254 users who were found to follow one or more of these accounts, the scripts Lenihan used to analyze and record relationships among Twitter accounts, the tabulated statistical results of this analysis, and the list of 75 text strings used as proxies to distinguish truly extreme Antifa-related beliefs (“dox them,” “punch them,” “club them,” etc.) from the more moderate campus-friendly version (“**** white people,” #****whitesupremacy, #goodnightwhitepride, etc). What’s more, Lenihan supplied all of this in electronic format. So not only was I able to test the integrity of Lenihan’s own data-visualization figures. I also was able to create my own variations, and so could test the effect of different parameters so as to help ensure that the author wasn’t cherry-picking his values in a way that allowed him to achieve pre-determined results. - Claire Lehmann (Quillette)

To your part in bold, have you forgotten how our thread of conversation has gone? You were supposed to prove to me how Lenihans argument is wrong. Your links did no such thing. The ball is in your court, or you are wasting my time.

Quotes or referencing Lenihan are a 'right-wing' troll without citations do not count ok ,just to stipulate the rules.

Quillette was also smeared with being anti-muslim extremists by the left. They were labelled by the Southern Poverty Law Centre. They successsfully sued and won, and forced an apology from the Southern Poverty Law Centre:

“it’s good to see the SPLC held to account for at least one of [its] smears” against people who don’t toe the progressive party line.

That's exactly what's happening here again. A coordinated smear campaign by the left.

Video Apology

Why are you and the left hell bent on attacking centrists in this case?

Your reference again to the huffington post article, which is in fact a Breitbart blog, proves that you didn't even read my last post.


I resent the insinuations for what I do or do not know. It seems you are more lacking knowledge with regards to this story.

amandstu

Leroy42 wrote: »

As a tweet I read stated, last night showed that Trump will have to eventually pick a side. He likes to talk tough and at the same time talk about getting the US out of the ME.

Yesterday the contradiction in those positions came into reality. He took the tough line first before realising that, dispite all his complaints about Obama, taking such action as the planned attack has serious consequences.

It is all about himself .The Iran nuclear deal ,the USA's strategic position in the ME is just a sideshow for his personal stances and justifications.

Climate Change is also dependent on his whims... it will probably turn out that he was right all along and etc etc etc (can't bear to think of the children ,I guess).

FrostyJack

Kimsang wrote: »

Quillette was also smeared with being anti-muslim extremists by the left. They were labelled by the Southern Poverty Law Centre.

“Lots of Muslims in America are basically liberals, but if you don’t have a visibly anti-extremist presence, then the Trumps of this world win” through fear-mongering and misrepresentation, he says. From Nawaz talking about your hero.

Nawaz is frequently on and talked about on Sam Harris's podcast, he promotes him every chance he gets, he is also one of Trump's biggest critics. I never seen any mainstream media champion Antifa or their tactics, I am sure like most people they support the antifascist movement. There is no true left leaning major network in America, they are all large corporations trying to make money. The first article that comes up if you google Antifa is by CNN and gives a balanced list of what they represent and lets the viewer decide is it good or bad.

Kimsang

FrostyJack wrote: »

“Lots of Muslims in America are basically liberals, but if you don’t have a visibly anti-extremist presence, then the Trumps of this world win” through fear-mongering and misrepresentation, he says. From Nawaz talking about your hero.

Nawaz is frequently on and talked about on Sam Harris's podcast, he promotes him every chance he gets, he is also one of Trump's biggest critics. I never seen any mainstream media champion Antifa or their tactics, I am sure like most people they support the antifascist movement. There is no true left leaning major network in America, they are all large corporations trying to make money. The first article that comes up if you google Antifa is by CNN and gives a balanced list of what they represent and lets the viewer decide is it good or bad.

I guess some people conform to the world, and some look at the world make it conform to them.

Majiid and Sam even wrote a book together.

All of the left leaning publications do what you wrote in bold. They also often 'play down' activism when it adheres to their ideology. Look at the recent flood of articles concerning milkshakes. Look at this activism is played down when it encounters the likes of Nigel Farage, but then in the opposite is played up with the likes of Anna Soubry.

If they were campaigners about anything else they are written in a bad light. I.e. pro-lifers, pro-gun people etc..

For what its worth I don't think I have even indicated my political leaning. I would have voted for Hilary in the last election, as I consider myself a centrist, and this is despite Hilary playing the woman card, which I despise. I used to consider myself left, until the left moves so far away from me, they are now a tiny dot on the horizon. So can we now stop with the wild insinuations and accusations? I

I am a long-time Harris fan, from his early days as a horseman.

esteve

Kimsang wrote: »

I used to consider myself left, until the left moves so far away from me, they are now a tiny dot on the horizon. So can we now stop with the wild insinuations and accusations?

Generally speaking political ideologies don't move across the spectrum, what moves is the centre point. If now the left seems so far away from you, that is because you have moved far away from it. Judging by your posting of Daily Caller Articles as citations, it would seem you are full steam ahead into the deep right. Be careful where that worm hole leads you.

Kimsang

esteve wrote: »

Generally speaking political ideologies don't move across the spectrum, what moves is the centre point. If now the left seems so far away from you, that is because you have moved far away from it. Judging by your posting of Daily Caller Articles as citations, it would seem you are full steam ahead into the deep right. Be careful where that worm hole leads you.

The left in my time was never about oppressing people. Maybe take a look at your ideology.
Have you ever heard of the phrase, "The left eats itself"
Have you ever wondered what this means?

esteve

Kimsang wrote: »

The left in my time was never about oppressing people. Maybe take a look at your ideology.
Have you ever heard of the phrase, "The left eats itself"
Have you ever wondered what this means?

I have no doubt you hard that phrase on some YouTube channel or some publication akin to the Daily Caller. You are confusing the left, with the far left. I am actually quite right leaning but in today's world, to you, I am the left.

Being centrist is always the most rationale. Extremes in either ideology is effectively the same thing.

EltonJohn69

Trump accused of rape.... I wonder if this accusation will stick ?

everlast75

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Trump accused of rape.... I wonder if this accusation will stick ?

Again?

Christy42

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Trump accused of rape.... I wonder if this accusation will stick ?

Can it? He is president so I doubt they can do more than simply accuse an won't be able to bring forward evidence.

As for the warmongering. The only reason Iran is on the verge of nuclear weapon is because he backed out of the treaty stopping it. No evidence that Iran broke it. It was not a tough situation. All Trump had to do was nothing and he messed up.

pixelburp

For clarity, the rape accusation is coming from E Jean Carroll, a columnist for Ele, who is saying Trump attempted to rape her 23 years ago in a shopping centre. The details are pretty explicit, and her testimony says friends witnessed it (one persuading her not to report it for fear of being buried by lawyers).

Whether it's true or not, it won't matter. Trump's sexual conduct is pretty sketchy at best, on record as such, and yet none of it has mattered or stuck. The pussy-grab tape was proof enough to that. Carroll can expect the hatchet jobs to come quick enough.

relax carry on

What a way to distract from the car crash that is his presidency.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1142157838153895941?s=19

Outlaw Pete

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Trump accused of rape.... I wonder if this accusation will stick ?

Cause that's all that matters, isn't it.... not if he's actually guilty or not, but will it stick, will something, anything, finally, stick.

pixelburp wrote: »

Whether it's true or not, it won't matter.

Not to the left it won't, no - to the rational world though, it will.

See how I quoted you out of context there? Doesn't feel good does it but yet there's dozens examples of that very thing on this thread. It's the hallmark of it at this stage.

The pussy-grab tape was proof enough to that.

So here's the context: you're saying it doesn't matter if Trump did it or not (rape this woman in a fitting room) as sure look at what happened with the 'pussy grab' tape, that didn't stick.

Okay, well first of all the 'pussy grab' tape is not what you're (I feel deliberately) making it sound like. It was audio of a private light hearted conversation between a group of guys, no actually pussying grabbing took place.

Secondly, the men present were laughing along with Trump as he joked (just as they were getting off the coach) about how he's unable to keep his hands off beautiful women, how he will just start kissing them , and how when you're famous they let you do it, let you do anything he says.............. 'Anything?' one of the men joke.....Trump plays along and makes the now infamous joke 'grab em by the pussy'.

They all laugh. Why? Because they know he's joking..... but even if he wasn't, even if he was dead serious..... how exactly hasn't it 'stuck?

Quite clearly it has stuck, given the left never shut up about it.

I mean, what exactly would it 'sticking' be to you if you don't feel that it did? What exactly do you think should have happened? Charges brought? Wouldn't surprise me.

MrFresh

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Cause that's all that matters, isn't it.... not if he's actually guilty or not, but will it stick, will something, anything, finally, stick.

The question of whether he is guilty or not is redundant if he cannot be subject to the justice system.

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Cause that's all that matters, isn't it.... not if he's actually guilty or not, but will it stick, will something, anything, finally, stick.

Like, for example, "lock her up?"

Looking for your moral indignation when that happened.... aaaaand its a no show.

everlast75

Client number 3 in a bit of how water.

Explains his fight against "the deep state"

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1142172917389770752?s=19

Gbear

A rape allegation and an abortive attempt to start World War 3. Those might be the defining calamities in an otherwise normal, functioning, sane, competent administration, but for Trump it's just another Friday afternoon.

pixelburp

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

So here's the context: you're saying it doesn't matter if Trump did it or not (rape this woman in a fitting room) as sure look at what happened with the 'pussy grab' tape, that didn't stick.

To paraphrase Trump himself, he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and it wouldn't hurt his ratings. This has turned out to be true. He has evangelical pastors rationalising his noted infidility as part of god's plan, so we're past satire.

No accusation, that by any normal metric would sink any other politician, has hurt trump with his base. It's remarkable in its own way. They'll debate the hows and whys for decades to come but whatever the gaff, he has walked away. 100 other politicians would be disgraced, and that's not a partisan, hyperbolic thing to say.

We don't know if this latest accusation is true or not and TBH I was only sharing on the thread for the sake of those not in the know - so calm the sabre rattling and the urge to scream histrionics over "The Left" (a term beyond meaningless puffery at this stage); but normal people - even normal celebrities or politicians - do not face a succession of public sexual assault accusations. It's not about finding something "to stick"

EltonJohn69

Trumps reply is something... implied the democrats are behind it and that Kavanaghs accuser is a liar... not a good idea bringing that up... I think this story could get ugly..: he denied ever meeting her... this has already been proven to be a lie.. there are of course photos of them together

prinzeugen

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Cause that's all that matters, isn't it.... not if he's actually guilty or not, but will it stick, will something, anything, finally, stick.



Not to the left it won't, no - to the rational world though, it will.

See how I quoted you out of context there? Doesn't feel good does it but yet there's dozens examples of that very thing on this thread. It's the hallmark of it at this stage.



So here's the context: you're saying it doesn't matter if Trump did it or not (rape this woman in a fitting room) as sure look at what happened with the 'pussy grab' tape, that didn't stick.

Okay, well first of all the 'pussy grab' tape is not what you're (I feel deliberately) making it sound like. It was audio of a private light hearted conversation between a group of guys, no actually pussying grabbing took place.

Secondly, the men present were laughing along with Trump as he joked (just as they were getting off the coach) about how he's unable to keep his hands off beautiful women, how he will just start kissing them , and how when you're famous they let you do it, let you do anything he says.............. 'Anything?' one of the men joke.....Trump plays along and makes the now infamous joke 'grab em by the pussy'.

They all laugh. Why? Because they know he's joking..... but even if he wasn't, even if he was dead serious..... how exactly hasn't it 'stuck?

Quite clearly it has stuck, given the left never shut up about it.

I mean, what exactly would it 'sticking' be to you if you don't feel that it did? What exactly do you think should have happened? Charges brought? Wouldn't surprise me.

What is your opinion on Biden? Trump lovers call him "creepy joe". DJT was doing exactly the same and worse. But thats fine.. DJT was doing it for a joke. Just like Jimmy Savile was having a joke when he grabbed girls by the pussy on TOTP.

Come on.. Trump said he would shag his own daughter if it was legal!

StringerBell

It's usually a good starting position to adopt that if Trump says something, believe the opposite. I'm sure there will be more to rub, but id proceed with caution if I was on the left. Red herrings are not uncommon and used then as evidence and cover.

Kimsang

esteve wrote: »

I have no doubt you heard that phrase on some YouTube channel or some publication akin to the Daily Caller. You are confusing the left, with the far left. I am actually quite right leaning but in today's world, to you, I am the left.

Being centrist is always the most rationale. Extremes in either ideology is effectively the same thing.

Katie Byrne: Is modern feminism eating itself (The Independent.ie)
When the Left Turns on Its Own (The New York Times)
How America's identity politics went from inclusion to division(The Guardian)

"A shift in tone, rhetoric, and logic has moved identity politics away from inclusion – which had always been the Left’s watchword – toward exclusion and division"-"Political Tribes"- Amy Chua

Are these sources good enough? Or are they too akin to the daily caller?

I see the left eating itself all the time. If you are ignoring it that's your choice. Speaking to a 'TERF' and you might find out what I'm talking about
Someone like Father Ted Creator, Graham Linehan) --"TERF"
Or how about the story of Brett Weinstein at Evergreen college? --"Racist"
How about James Damore at google? --"Misogynist"
How about Peter Boghossian at Portland State? --"Troll"
Hoax papers: The shoddy, absurd and unethical side of academia
Laura Kennedy: A ‘grievance studies’ hoax has identified a disturbing cultural shift- Irish Times --"Trolls"
How about Christina-Hoff sommers of the American Enterprise Institute? "--Internalized Misogyny"
How about Erin Pizzey; founder of the first women's domestic abuse shelter in the modern world? --"TERF", Misogynist & terrorist sympathiser(Andrew Marr).
How about Majiid Nawaz? --"Anti-Muslim Extremist"

All these people considered themselves leftists. Smear campaigns were orchestrated by the media using slurs to discredit them. Absolutely no room for nuance in the left-wing media vs any of their arguments. If anyone further questions left leaning bias, just research any of these stories.
This is a post liked by many people in this thread; not even fact checked by the author, and more importantly not critiqued by otherwise reasonable people.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Okay let's nail this. You posted nonsense from an article written by a bona fide far right troll. He is a far right troll. Full stop. His 'research methodology' is ludicrous at best. You didn't know that. You know now. So your point is wrong. 100% wrong because it is based on the troll's 'article'.

Let's see. Who to believe? A far right troll writing in an ultra libertarian 'magazine' whose HQ is some woman's couch. Or the Colombia Journalism Review, The Huffington Post or The Independent. So hard, must choose...

You know, I like to educate myself by engaging in meaningful debate. With respect, you're not educating me, you're wasting my time.

I don't think left leaning people realize they can remove Trump's power by standing up to the people that constantly smear others as trolls,racists or misogynists(which are always left leaning people).

Things the left seem to have culturally adopted:
Guilty until proven innocent
Guilt by association
Vicarious sin
Group Offence/Guilt
Moving from guilt to shame society

This is not 'far left'. This is mainstream left.

I'm a centrist: I hold some conservative views and some liberal views.
But I'm more afraid of talking to my liberal friends about my conservative views than I am talking to my conservative friends about my liberal views-Melissa Chen

When I debate Christians, Jews, Creationists, climate deniers etc. they are unfailingly polite, respectful, thoughtful, discerning, & listen to my arguments. Far Left SJWs do not. They simply look for fault & pounce - Michael Shermer

Itssoeasy

So, Trump is claiming he's never met the woman accusing him of rape. The problem with that is there is a picture of Trump being introduced to the woman in question and evidence that doesn't reflect the USA.

everlast75

In the continuing saga that is roger stone's life, he continues to self own. Hopefully he'll be thrown in the slammer for this latest breach of the gag order..

https://twitter.com/hsu_spencer/status/1142212317272297473?s=19

jochenstacker

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Cause that's all that matters, isn't it.... not if he's actually guilty or not, but will it stick, will something, anything, finally, stick.

And Trumpers think exactly the same.
They don't give a flying fcuk how many scummy things he has done, and in fact sometimes admire him for being dirtbag because he's "sticking it to the libtards".
Like true psychopaths they only care about getting away with it and if something finally does stick, they will blame the guy who made it stick.
They truly are deplorable.

Kimsang

jochenstacker wrote: »

And Trumpers think exactly the same.
They don't give a flying fcuk how many scummy things he has done, and in fact sometimes admire him for being dirtbag because he's "sticking it to the libtards".
Like true psychopaths they only care about getting away with it and if something finally does stick, they will blame the guy who made it stick.
They truly are deplorable.

I am yet to see anyone say they admire Trump. (apart from maybe his family, his employees or Kelly-Anne Conway)

jochenstacker

Kimsang wrote: »

I am yet to see anyone say they admire Trump. (apart from maybe his family, his employees or Kelly-Anne Conway)

Seriously? Really? Has your exposure to the internet been limited to the last 5 pages of this thread?
A 30 second websearch will dredge up thousands of foam at the mouth Trump fansites.

Kimsang

jochenstacker wrote: »

Seriously? Really? Has your exposure to the internet been limited to the last 5 pages of this thread?
A 30 second websearch will dredge up thousands of foam at the mouth Trump fansites.

Actually I was half joking, you must not have endured(lucky you) much of the Conway.

But go on, link me to where people say they admire Trump. All I found about admiring Trump was a far right Brazilian politician and a UAE businessman. (obviously ignoring sarcasm)

Stallingrad

Trump must love the odd rape allegation, his base don't care and it takes the focus of imprisoned brown children. Go America.

banie01

This is more an observation in the flaws in the American political system than Trump himself.

The idealism of the founding fathers and their admiration of Cincinnatus, Marius and the idealism of republican Rome and the occasional dictator putting the state above their own gain, returning to their farm after the crisis has passed...
Their disregard of the fact that those dictators were the exception to the rule...
That Dictatorship and the quest for personal power led to the collapse of the Republic and the rise of Empire and personal rule.
Leaves them to carry an awful lot of blame for the current state of the US.


The idea that an appointed dictator, or the elected consuls could wield executive power at a time of crisis, to take the hard decisions and during their term be exempted from prosecution is an anachronism is this day and age.
That the founding fathers gave such implicit privilege to their Executive is a mistake that is past time to rectify IMO

How does America reconcile the impartiality and even handedness of blind justice, with the fact that certain office places someone beyond the reach of law enforcement or criminal sanction?

It baffles me!
It is a country that is built on inherent systemic inequality and worse...
It celebrates that as the reward of their highest office!