Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Kimsang

everlast75 wrote: »

This is what i mean about your answers being all over the place. I mean that respectfully.

Can you please answer the questions I asked?

Thank you.

I accept that, but I'm constantly being challenge from different angles its not easy.

Honestly no. I would have voted for Hilary, but I'm glad now Trump got in ahead of her.

How about the Sanders' supporters who were openly colluded against by the DNC. There was no investigation into that, they were asked to shut up and vote for Hilary.

TomOnBoard

Water John wrote: »

It is not up to Carroll as to whether the State of NY investigates. That is an issue for the prosecutors office, now that it is brought to their attention.

I agree that the local law enforcement ought to investigate, even if Carroll herself has no interest in bringing charges. The authorities have a community protection obligation to discharge.

Water John wrote: »

I'm sure they may follow up and as you say, examine the dress.

I hope they do have the dress examined before it somehow is made to disappear.

everlast75

Kimsang wrote: »

I accept that, but I'm constantly being challenge from different angles its not easy.

Honestly no. I would have voted for Hilary, but I'm glad now Trump got in ahead of her.

No worries.

So you think he's not fit for office?

Do you think impeachment proceedings should begin?

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

The Dems are not for open borders. That's misinformation.

There was a system in place that was working according to Trump administration statistics.

Trump broke the system, manufacturing the problem and then blames it on Obama.

Its nonsense.

Fair enough, but optics are pretty out of whack these days

A passing interest would suggest that Dems are pro illegal immigration. And that's most voters.

Kimsang

everlast75 wrote: »

No worries.

So you think he's not fit for office?

Do you think impeachment proceedings should begin?

I assume its accidental but now you are playing word games.

Just because I wouldn't say "He's fit for office"

Isn't the same as me saying "He's unfit for office"

Impeachment should be reserved for more serious crimes.

TomOnBoard

Kimsang wrote: »

I accept that, but I'm constantly being challenge from different angles its not easy.

Sometimes your posts create many different angles, so it is not surprising when you get challenges back from different angles depending on what individual posters respond to. I've basically ceased responding when posts are based on inadvertent inaccuracies eg. use of 'identarians' in conjunction with white wearing congresswomen a few days back. I think everlasting gave you a respectful answer earlier also.

Midlife

Kimsang wrote: »

Do you think its wrong for others to completely mis represent other people?

I wrote some large posts, with lots of links to what I'm talking about, so I'm not happy defining one word out of context.

I'm saying we're MOVING FROM a GUILT to a SHAME CULTURE.

the left has culturally adopted:
Group Sin
Group Offence
Vicarious Sin
Vicarious Offence
OR DO YOU DISAGREE?

Are you seriously insinuating, I don't know "it wrong that people should feel shame for hurting others?" Talk about going for low hanging fruit.

What does this have to do with anything. It seems that you are just posting random stuff that makes sense to you about 'THE LEFT!!!!!' and you can't fnd anywhere better to do it.

Kimsang

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Sometimes your posts create many different angles, so it is not surprising when you get challenges back from different angles depending on what individual posters respond to. I've basically ceased responding when posts are based on inadvertent inaccuracies eg. use of 'identarians' in conjunction with white wearing congresswomen a few days back. I think everlasting gave you a respectful answer earlier also.

Fair enough I accept the criticism.
But to ignore me for using identitarians, when I changed it as soon as it was pointed out to me (within 1 hour?) seems petty.

Midlife

Kimsang wrote: »

I believe it is you that has proved to oversimplify things with this three sentence post.

I have outlined and detailed my position in several longer posts earlier, if you care to critique them. Only professor moriarty has tried yet, but he has since given up to only construct strawmen.

I'm just pointing out that there are lots of reasons Trump was elected, not just one. Perhaps you can explain how that's me 'oversimplifying' things. i would have thought it's quite the opposite.

You say 'there's one reason Trump was elected'. I say 'no there's lots'. You accuse me of oversimplifying? That simply doesn't make sense.

Regarding your position, can you please outline it yourself and not just link several other articles. Not all of us have the time.

I genuinely don't understand your point or whatever it is you're exactly saying.

TomOnBoard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A passing interest would suggest that Dems are pro illegal immigration. And that's most voters.

A passing interest that is fed by constant Republican propaganda that is disseminated by Trump and his coterie of liars.

TomOnBoard

Kimsang wrote: »

Fair enough I accept the criticism.
But to ignore me for using identitarians, when I changed it as soon as it was pointed out to me (within 1 hour?) seems petty.

If you accept the criticism accept it and move on. Don't try to start an ad hominem attack in the next sentence. I use the identarians example as just one example (note use of e.g. In my post) of such inaccurate usage.

TomOnBoard

TomOnBoard wrote: »

A passing interest that is fed by constant Republican propaganda that is disseminated by Trump and his coterie of liars.

But I don't consume any of it. All I see is regular media being extreme in their opposition of Trump's stance.

The concentration camps being an example. The terminology seems to be taking up such unnecessary space in people's minds


I'd feel a lot better about 2020 if AOC wasn't the Dems' center when she can't even run.


I've mostly switches off from Politics like I said I would months ago. I've been hammering Fantasy because it has to make sense at the end of the day.

looksee

Kimsang wrote: »

I'll work backwards if that's ok. I appreciate your considered response.

Trump is probably the most popular person in the world, (maybe ronaldo?) The amount of allegations should be weighted as such

Is there any evidence or figures to support this statement?

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

But I don't consume any of it. All I see is regular media being extreme in their opposition of Trump's stance.

The concentration camps being an example. The terminology seems to be taking up such unnecessary space in people's minds


I'd feel a lot better about 2020 if AOC wasn't the Dems' center when she can't even run.


I've mostly switches off from Politics like I said I would months ago. I've been hammering Fantasy because it has to make sense at the end of the day.

If the regular media is constantly attacking Trump then one of two assertions is true. They attack Trump because they are all extremely biased. Or because he is an appalling human being and an appalling president.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But I don't consume any of it. All I see is regular media being extreme in their opposition of Trump's stance.

The concentration camps being an example. The terminology seems to be taking up such unnecessary space in people's minds


I'd feel a lot better about 2020 if AOC wasn't the Dems' center when she can't even run.


I've mostly switches off from Politics like I said I would months ago. I've been hammering Fantasy because it has to make sense at the end of the day.

If you bothered reading anything about these camps.

Then you wouldn't even question it. They are are concentration camps.

America is a kip.

If don't for a second think you are having a passing glance at the situation. I think your fully versed and it's oddly apt that you feel blaming AOC for calling out what the republicans are doing .

AOC is not to blame for this.


America is a kip

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If the regular media is constantly attacking Trump then one of two assertions is true. They attack Trump because they are all extremely biased. Or because he is an appalling human being and an appalling president.

I'll agree with both.

Doesn't change my concern that the Dems are moving too far left. So I'll ask again I guess, again non-Imflammatory, is that happening?

listermint

listermint wrote: »

If you bothered reading anything about these camps.

Then you wouldn't even question it. They are are concentration camps.

America is a kip.

If don't for a second think you are having a passing glance at the situation. I think your fully versed and it's oddly apt that you feel blaming AOC for calling out what the republicans are doing .

AOC is not to blame for this.


America is a kip

Yeah, it is a kip. A place full of casual racism and fear of the unknown by the sounds of it.

The concentration camp angle is not a good way to gain supporters though imo. Too much inherited history. The people there can leave of they want, or am I wrong in saying that?

That alone makes it different to Nazi camps, or the Japanese internment camps for example. (I'd they can leave)

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll agree with both.

Doesn't change my concern that the Dems are moving too far left. So I'll ask again I guess, again non-Imflammatory, is that happening?

Well., 'left' is a subjective term. Do I think that some of the Dems' possible more progressive policies might lose them some of the middle ground? Yes, because America is a Conservative society at heart.

Why do you think that the regular media is extremely biased against Trump?

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well., 'left' is a subjective term. Do I think that some of the Dems' possible more progressive policies might lose them some of the middle ground? Yes because America is a Conservative society at heart.

Why do you think that the regular media is extremely biased against Trump?

Because he's a buffoon and recently, that could have serious implications with Iran.

Anyways, I'm hoping that the Dems can campaign on regular stuff that is pro-American, and not just an antipathy to Trump.

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

Because he's a buffoon and recently, that could have serious implications with Iran.

Anyways, I'm hoping that the Dems can campaign on regular stuff that is pro-American, and just an antipathy to Trump.

Agreed. For me, the regular media is biased against Trump because he is appalling and not because they are inherently biased.

jobbridge4life

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, it is a kip. A place full of casual racism and fear of the unknown by the sounds of it.

The concentration camp angle is not a good way to gain supporters though imo. Too much inherited history. The people there can leave of they want, or am I wrong in saying that?

That alone makes it different to Nazi camps, or the Japanese internment camps for example. (I'd they can leave)

No they can't. You may be thinking of our Direct Provision centres.

Children are dying regularly in these camps.

They are by every standard concentration camps. Refusing to label them as such is complicity.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Agreed. For me, the regular media is biased against Trump because he is appalling and not because they are inherently biased.

I've also made the argument over the years that the media focusing on him non-stop would tire people out. That's why the Dems really need something in 2020 that inspires voters. The anti-Trump vote wanes by the day for regular voters.

I genuinely see the next election as America's chance to redeem itself. Unlike the calamity that is Brexit, with generation-long consequences, a new President in America can undo much of the damage that has been done.

jobbridge4life

jobbridge4life wrote: »

No they can't. You may be thinking of our Direct Provision centres.

Children are dying regularly in these camps.

They are by every standard concentration camps. Refusing to label them as such is complicity.

I will never attach what is happening now, as awful as it is, to what was done in concentration camps. And yes, I know the difference between a concentration camp and a death camp.

US personal are not given a license to abuse and maltreat the people in those camps. It's different to a Nazi one.

Children dying is exceptionally sad, but it's not through intentional abuse by literal Nazis; It's just sad. The people working there don't have a license to kill. Concentration camps were run by people who thought Jews, gays, the disabled etc. were subhuman.


So what is happening is kind of similar. The terminology isn't worth it. They're just shlt hole camps where people are kept. If the concentration camp label were dropped, there would be far more focus on their suffering.

RIGOLO

Deleted User wrote: »

I've also made the argument over the years that the media focusing on him non-stop would tire people out. That's why the Dems really need something in 2020 that inspires voters. The anti-Trump vote wanes by the day for regular voters.

I genuinely see the next election as America's chance to redeem itself. Unlike the calamity that is Brexit, with generation-long consequences, a new President in America can undo much of the damage that has been done.

You mean like undo best employment rates for black people
undo a booming stock market
undo a booming jobs market
undo a massive shot in the arm to the military
undo investments in space exploration
undo rebalancing of Chinese trade
undo rebalancing of US - EU trade imbalance

is that the sort of damage your hoping the next president will undo ...

20,000 people queued up for a sell out campaign launch
Theres no sign anyone will be undoing anything for the next 6 years .
Trump , this administration is just getting warmed up .. Trump II will be even better.

jochenstacker

Kimsang wrote: »

And to your point about living in a world where you watch what you say, you are describing North Korea. This leads to the gulags.

Bollocks

jobbridge4life

RIGOLO wrote: »

You mean like undo best employment rates for black people
undo a booming stock market
undo a booming jobs market
undo a massive shot in the arm to the military
undo investments in space exploration
undo rebalancing of Chinese trade
undo rebalancing of US - EU trade imbalance

is that the sort of damage your hoping the next president will undo ...

20,000 people queued up for a sell out campaign launch
Theres no sign anyone will be undoing anything for the next 6 years .
Trump , this administration is just getting warmed up .. Trump II will be even better.

Are you as horny for Trump II as I am?

Gbear

Deleted User wrote: »

I will never attach what is happening now, as awful as it is, to what was done in concentration camps. And yes, I know the difference between a concentration camp and a death camp.

US personal are not given a license to abuse and maltreat the people in those camps. It's different to a Nazi one.

Children dying is exceptionally sad, but it's not through intentional abuse by literal Nazis; It's just sad. The people working there don't have a license to kill. Concentration camps were run by people who thought Jews, gays, the disabled etc. were subhuman.


So what is happening is kind of similar. The terminology isn't worth it. They're just shlt hole camps where people are kept. If the concentration camp label were dropped, there would be far more focus on their suffering.

The opposite is true.

The US liberal media has danced to the tune of the far right for too long in the name of conciliation and magnanimity, with an opponent that is interested in neither of those things.

It is immensely refreshing to see someone like AOC actually show some balls and be willing to call out such obviously appalling behaviour and correctly label it instead of using cowardly euphemisms.

If some people who are ignorant about what "concentration camp" means get their noses put out of joint then you keep pushing on it until everyone is completely clear what the situation is.

The Nazis didn't invent concentration camps. They are, as with quite a lot of awful thing invented throughout modern history, a creation of the British Empire. Nobody has called them extermination camps, death camps, gas chambers or otherwise. What we're actually seeing is concern trolling by the right to try and obfusticate what is going on and create enough of a sideshow over semantics so people aren't thinking about how what is supposedly the world's premier democracy is holding thousands of people in concentration camps within its borders, utterly neglecting their welfare and breaching their human rights, and they're doing it for the completely cynical purpose of raising political support from the hateful and xenophobic Republican base.

Shai

Deleted User wrote: »

I will never attach what is happening now, as awful as it is, to what was done in concentration camps. And yes, I know the difference between a concentration camp and a death camp.

US personal are not given a license to abuse and maltreat the people in those camps. It's different to a Nazi one.

Children dying is exceptionally sad, but it's not through intentional abuse by literal Nazis; It's just sad. The people working there don't have a license to kill. Concentration camps were run by people who thought Jews, gays, the disabled etc. were subhuman.


So what is happening is kind of similar. The terminology isn't worth it. They're just shlt hole camps where people are kept. If the concentration camp label were dropped, there would be far more focus on their suffering.

your description would be equally apt at describing the forced interment of Japanese Americans during WW2. These camps for Japanese Americans were referred to as "concentration camps" by historians as well as Franklin Roosevelt.

everlast75

Kimsang wrote: »

I assume its accidental but now you are playing word games.

Just because I wouldn't say "He's fit for office"

Isn't the same as me saying "He's unfit for office".

Tbf I don't think its me playing word games here..

TomOnBoard

Some interesting views on Sunday's political opining re 2020. After Trump's reticence to jump to a re-endorsement of Pence as his VP running mate, there's a bit of support for replacing him with Nicky Haley, if shed even consider it. I could certainly see a Trump-Haley ticket being a bit stronger than Trump-Pence.