Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

duploelabs

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Some interesting views on Sunday's political opining re 2020. After Trump's reticence to jump to a re-endorsement of Pence as his VP running mate, there's a bit of support for replacing him with Nicky Haley, if shed even consider it. I could certainly see a Trump-Haley ticket being a bit stronger than Trump-Pence.

Would the evangelicals get behind him without Pence involved?

Water John

The only risk for him with them is that they stay at home.

TomOnBoard

duploelabs wrote: »

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Some interesting views on Sunday's political opining re 2020. After Trump's reticence to jump to a re-endorsement of Pence as his VP running mate, there's a bit of support for replacing him with Nicky Haley, if shed even consider it. I could certainly see a Trump-Haley ticket being a bit stronger than Trump-Pence.

Would the evangelicals get behind him without Pence involved?

Good question. However, he does have Jerry Falwell II acting as his cheer leader so perhaps they would. Haley would be used to offset some of the antipathy among women voters.

everlast75

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Good question. However, he does have Jerry Falwell II acting as his cheer leader so perhaps they would

For the moment. Controversy abound regarding photos of his wife, a pool boy, millions of dollars and add Michael Cohen to the mix...

TomOnBoard

everlast75 wrote: »

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Good question. However, he does have Jerry Falwell II acting as his cheer leader so perhaps they would

For the moment. Controversy abound regarding photos of his wife, a pool boy, millions of dollars and add Michael Cohen to the mix...

If you believe Cohen, he kept one of the photos and the rest were destroyed. If so, it's likely Trump's people have the photo and it'll stay hidden unless Falwell steps out of line.

everlast75

TomOnBoard wrote: »

If you believe Cohen, he kept one of the photos and the rest were destroyed. If so, it's likely Trump's people have the photo and it'll stay hidden unless Falwell steps out of line.

I think the photos were leaked to one of the Miami newspapers.

If that's the case, Falwell isn't beholden to Trump anymore

Kimsang

TomOnBoard wrote: »

If you accept the criticism accept it and move on. Don't try to start an ad hominem attack in the next sentence. I use the identarians example as just one example (note use of e.g. In my post) of such inaccurate usage.

Fair enough, can you now cite the other examples, apart from me confusing the word identitarian with people that play identity politics(which is in my opinion a fair mistake to make). That is what is petty about it. It's not an ad hominem at all

Kimsang

Midlife wrote: »

I'm just pointing out that there are lots of reasons Trump was elected, not just one. Perhaps you can explain how that's me 'oversimplifying' things. i would have thought it's quite the opposite.
I genuinely don't understand your point or whatever it is you're exactly saying.

I'm pointing out the reasons people fail to acknowledge.
But given the history of the posts that you quote me, when I have a long post with links you say it's too long to read for most people. I then simplify my argument and I'm over-simplifying. How am I supposed to get my point across to you?

Maybe if you engaged a bit more civilly I would engage with you likewise.

Midlife wrote: »

Wow, are you actually becoming a Nazi apologist here?
That's impressive. You should stop watching your youtube feed or whatever is leading you down this myopic distorted path. Read your own article properly and find the clear problems with it. Think for yourself.
Lots of people on both sides don't see the truth for all the rubbish anymore. You should extract yourself from that situation.

Midlife wrote: »

What does this have to do with anything. It seems that you are just posting random stuff that makes sense to you about 'THE LEFT!!!!!' and you can't fnd anywhere better to do it.

Kimsang

looksee wrote: »

Is there any evidence or figures to support this statement?

At 156 million, Trump tops the list of most viewed wikipedia pages(for people)

Ronaldo is 9th with 90milllion.

1 Donald Trump 156
2 Barack Obama 126
3 Michael Jackson 108
4 Eminem 103
5 Lady Gaga 102
6 Adolf Hitler 96

Kimsang

jochenstacker wrote: »

Bollocks

"Democratic People's Republic of Korea"

TomOnBoard

Kimsang wrote: »

Fair enough, can you now cite the other examples, apart from me confusing the word identitarian with people that play identity politics(which is in my opinion a fair mistake to make). That is what is petty about it. It's not an ad hominem at all

So you would now like me to go back over your posts and analyse them so that I can explain where they have been built on inaccuracies? Ahhh, come on! This is not a school for teaching posters how to discuss / debate matters. Who has the time for that?

hill16bhoy

Kimsang wrote: »

And to your point about living in a world where you watch what you say, you are describing North Korea. This leads to the gulags.

The USA was, for the first time, listed as one of the top five deadliest countries in the world for journalists in 2018.

https://time.com/5483773/us-deadliest-countries-journalists-deaths-2018/

Trump has been furiously trying to clamp down on press freedom, threatening show trials and jail for journalists, not to mention political opponents.

So America is indeed one of those countries where you have to watch what you say, because the regime and its supporters are very, very touchy about anything at all about them being exposed.

And with Trump operating concentration camps, there's your gulag.

Kimsang

everlast75 wrote: »

So you think he's not fit for office?

Kimsang wrote: »

Just because I wouldn't say "He's fit for office"

Isn't the same as me saying "He's unfit for office"

I have been racking my brain thinking of a good example. This is the best I can think of. But it is just a word trap.

You ask, "Do you think she couldn't run 100m in 10seconds"?
I answer"No i don't think she could run 100m in 10seconds"
You insinuate "So your saying she can't run 100m in 10seconds!"

I don't think she can run, isn't the same as me saying, she can't run.
When we're talking about impeachment, you need to be certain in these things.

hill16bhoy

Kimsang wrote: »

I assume its accidental but now you are playing word games.

Just because I wouldn't say "He's fit for office"

Isn't the same as me saying "He's unfit for office"

Impeachment should be reserved for more serious crimes.

Did you think Roy Moore was unfit for office?

Kimsang

hill16bhoy wrote: »

The USA was, for the first time, listed as one of the top five deadliest countries in the world for journalists in 2018.

https://time.com/5483773/us-deadliest-countries-journalists-deaths-2018/

Trump has been furiously trying to clamp down on press freedom, threatening show trials and jail for journalists, not to mention political opponents.

So America is indeed one of those countries where you have to watch what you say, because the regime and its supporters are very, very touchy about anything at all about them being exposed.

And with Trump operating concentration camps, there's your gulag.

I would guess this is largely due to the Julian Assange case. Otherwise, when have journalists been targeted in the US(for doing journalism)?

Press freedom is one of the boats I'm sure we can all get on board with.
I believe much of what Trump says about these things should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The Khashoogi killing seemed quite spiteful and vindictive,but who are the US to preach with how they treat C. Manning and J. Assange. Hong Kong ongoing protests over a related case of extradition to China. Nice to see 1/3rd of Hong Kong population in opposition to it. Why weren't we(the west) marching on the streets for Assange?!

Kimsang

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I've basically ceased responding when posts are based on inadvertent inaccuracies eg. use of 'identarians' in conjunction with white wearing congresswomen a few days back. I think everlasting gave you a respectful answer earlier also.

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I use the identarians example as just one example (note use of e.g. In my post) of such inaccurate usage.

TomOnBoard wrote: »

So you would now like me to go back over your posts and analyse them so that I can explain where they have been built on inaccuracies? Ahhh, come on! This is not a school for teaching posters how to discuss / debate matters. Who has the time for that?

Nice dodge, lol- one more example will suffice . The only example you used so far was the one that I identified and pointed out myself. Remember, these were the reasons for ignoring my posts, these mistakes must have been pretty stark!

Do you agree or disagree that using the word Identitarian to describe people that play identity politics is a fair mistake to make?

I resent your accusation without proof. Why else would YOU bring up the subject?
The left doesn't apologize. They have changed the meaning of apology to an admission of guilt.

When I debate Christians, Jews, Creationists, climate deniers etc. they are unfailingly polite, respectful, thoughtful, discerning, & listen to my arguments. Far Left SJWs do not. They simply look for fault & pounce - Michael Shermer

Kimsang

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

People who support their arguments by simply dropping in random YouTube videos or linking to the Daily Caller are clutching at straws.

People who caricature the other side's argument is what is wrong with society.

If you want to keep ignoring these, that's up to you.

Father Ted Creator, Graham Linehan) --"TERF"
The story of Brett Weinstein at Evergreen college --"Racist"
James Damore at google --"Misogynist"
Peter Boghossian at Portland State --"Troll"
Hoax papers: The shoddy, absurd and unethical side of academia
Laura Kennedy: A ‘grievance studies’ hoax has identified a disturbing cultural shift- Irish Times --"Trolls"
Christina-Hoff sommers of the American Enterprise Institute "--Internalized Misogyny"
Erin Pizzey; founder of the first women's domestic abuse shelter in the modern world --"TERF", Misogynist & terrorist sympathiser(Andrew Marr).
Majiid Nawaz --"Anti-Muslim Extremist"

hill16bhoy

Kimsang wrote: »

I would guess this is largely due to the Julian Assange case. Otherwise, when have journalists been targeted in the US(for doing journalism)?

Are you serious?

Here, from two days ago:

Trump threatens Time journalist with prison over photo

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48696131

Do you have any concept of the seriousness of consistently calling journalists "the enemy of the people"?

Kimsang wrote: »

Press freedom is one of the boats I'm sure we can all get on board with.
I believe much of what Trump says about these things should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The US President's words don't get to be taken with "a pinch of salt".

And the history of Trump's words shows none of his words should be taken with "a pinch of salt".

Believe the far right when they say stuff.

Trump's supporters are on board with clamping down on press freedom, and they're on board with imprisoning political opponents too.

Less than a year ago an alt-right scumbag, the exact type off scumbag Trump has courted openly, went into a newsroom in Maryland and shot five people dead.

All this is called fascism, and nobody should shy away from calling it exactly what it is.

Because if you don't, you're normalising and defending fascism.

Telling the truth now is a revolutionary act.

batgoat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I will never attach what is happening now, as awful as it is, to what was done in concentration camps. And yes, I know the difference between a concentration camp and a death camp.

US personal are not given a license to abuse and maltreat the people in those camps. It's different to a Nazi one.

Children dying is exceptionally sad, but it's not through intentional abuse by literal Nazis; It's just sad. The people working there don't have a license to kill. Concentration camps were run by people who thought Jews, gays, the disabled etc. were subhuman.


So what is happening is kind of similar. The terminology isn't worth it. They're just shlt hole camps where people are kept. If the concentration camp label were dropped, there would be far more focus on their suffering.

Trump literally campaigned on these people being subhuman. his rhetoric reduced those coming over the border into rapists and criminals...

Kimsang

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Are you serious?

Do you have any concept of the seriousness of consistently calling journalists "the enemy of the people"?

Because if you don't, you're normalising and defending fascism.

He's right, a lot of journalists in this day and age are pedalling regurgitated nonsense while backslapping each other on twitter. The same for the humanities in academia. This disinformation and abandonment of intellectualism are true evils.

Trump has not done anything to impede the work of journalists. Get a grip on yourself. Nor has he tried to change any laws.

volchitsa

Kimsang wrote: »

He's right, a lot of journalists in this day and age are pedalling regurgitated nonsense while backslapping each other on twitter. The same for the humanities in academia. This disinformation and abandonment of intellectualism are true evils.

Trump has not done anything to impede the work of journalists. Get a grip on yourself. Nor has he tried to change any laws.

Removing accreditation for White House correspondents impedes their work.
And it was for purely vindictive reasons. So you're wrong. Not that I expect that to shake your beliefs.

Brian?

RIGOLO wrote: »

You mean like undo best employment rates for black people
undo a booming stock market
undo a booming jobs market

Handed to Trump and about to crash.

undo a massive shot in the arm to the military
undo investments in space exploration
undo rebalancing of Chinese trade
undo rebalancing of US - EU trade imbalance

Can you tell me exactly what's been rebalanced. Do you have the numbers for trade deficits?

is that the sort of damage your hoping the next president will undo ...

20,000 people queued up for a sell out campaign launch
Theres no sign anyone will be undoing anything for the next 6 years .
Trump , this administration is just getting warmed up .. Trump II will be even better.

I don't really expect a constructive answer. But can you try?

everlast75

Kimsang wrote: »

I have been racking my brain thinking of a good example. This is the best I can think of. But it is just a word trap.

You ask, "Do you think she couldn't run 100m in 10seconds"?
I answer"No i don't think she could run 100m in 10seconds"
You insinuate "So your saying she can't run 100m in 10seconds!"

I don't think she can run, isn't the same as me saying, she can't run.
When we're talking about impeachment, you need to be certain in these things.

I disagree.

You either hire someone for a job or you don't.

If you hired someone, and you cannot say they are fit for the job, you let them go. That's just plain logic. It is irrelevant what way you phrase it. Its an either/pr question, not a matter of gradients, which you select as a comparator to allow you to dodge giving the answer you don't want to give.

And as for impeachment, you accept that he has obstructed justice, you accept he has told 10,000 plus lies, i dare to presume you accept he committed a felony in paying off Clifford just prior to the election, that his refusal to give over his tax records is out of order (and illegal I might add) but say that's not enough to begin an imprisonment enquiry? Seriously, that is not a reasonable stance to take. You can say it is, and excuse it away, but it just isn't.

I was going to ask what does he have to do before you believe such an enquiry should begin, but frankly if you don't believe it should have started already....

ancapailldorcha

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

People who support their arguments by simply dropping in random YouTube videos or linking to the Daily Caller are clutching at straws.

Cut this out please.

everlast75

https://amp.axios.com/leaked-donald-trump-vetting-docs-hbo-6ce3cd26-1eb9-4da8-b15e-47b56020aef7.html?__twitter_impression=true

A big get for Axios, listing out the concerns he had for potential staff.

It seems like he didn't hire the best people after all.

Midlife

Kimsang wrote: »

I'm pointing out the reasons people fail to acknowledge.
But given the history of the posts that you quote me, when I have a long post with links you say it's too long to read for most people. I then simplify my argument and I'm over-simplifying. How am I supposed to get my point across to you?

Maybe if you engaged a bit more civilly I would engage with you likewise.

So sum it up, you're not going to state whatever point you've been making.

apologies for the lack of civility.

Being honest however, I think you're here to have some shots at 'the left' as you perceive them to be. Your content is all over the place, but you're happy to post examples you think are important or links to stuff you've read.

If you have a point, then make it. Then we can discuss. That's how it works.

RIGOLO

So the Trump Administration efforts to rid the US of the scourge of MS-13 continues .

MS-13 Member Sentenced to Life in Prison for Kidnapping, Rape, Murder of 13-Year-Old Whittier Girl

https://ktla.com/2019/06/21/ms-13-member-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-kidnapping-rape-murder-of-13-year-old-whittier-girl/

So the MS-13 gang members kidnapped her the day before , and four of them spent 2 hours driving around with her, raping and abusing her and then to cover their tracks they put two bulletts in the back of the 13 year olds head and dumped her naked body in a vacant lot..

Living up to the gangs motto... “mata, viola, controla,” which means “kill, rape, control.”

At least the TRump administration has declared a 'war' on this menace, Trump talked about taking steps to go after MS-13 in his pre 2016 campaign rallys, Im sure many voted for im based on this message, and it was great to see him deliver on his promises in numerous measures.
Still alot of work to be done to demolish MS-13 but Im sure more will be done in term 2.

The White House and TRump Administration have been talking about this scum for years, with little if any support from main stream media,.

Protecting American Communities from the Violence of MS-13 February 6, 2018
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/protecting-american-communities-violence-ms-13/

What You Need To Know About The Violent Animals Of MS-13 May 21, 2018
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/need-know-violent-animals-ms-13/

Remarks by President Trump to Law Enforcement Officials on MS-13 Jul 28, 2017
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-law-enforcement-officials-ms-13/

President Donald J. Trump is Dedicated to Combating MS-13 May 23, 2018
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-dedicated-combating-ms-13/

The anti-Trumpers are tooting that theirs 'concentration camps and gulags in America " as if , when in reality theres South American gangs taking 13 year old girls, spending 24 hours raping and abusing her and then putting two bullets in her head and dumping her naked body in a vacant lot and theres only one President in recent years who has stood up to the plate and taken them on.

RIP Jacueline Piazza, a 13 year old girl deserves more than 2 bulletts in the back of her mutilated and naked body ..

Great to see a President of the US go after this scum .

Igotadose

everlast75 wrote: »

https://amp.axios.com/leaked-donald-trump-vetting-docs-hbo-6ce3cd26-1eb9-4da8-b15e-47b56020aef7.html?__twitter_impression=true

A big get for Axios, listing out the concerns he had for potential staff.

It seems like he didn't hire the best people after all.

It's only Monday. Still could declare war this week. Though, there'll be a tweetfest about this. Also, it's been a few days, he might want to take a pop at Sadiq Khan as the UK are in the news now and that'll get him onto some of the UK web sites.

TomOnBoard

RIGOLO wrote: »

Great to see a President of the US go after this scum .

I fully agree with that statement.

However, what is not acknowledged in the process is that MS-13 and similar vicious, murderous animal gangs are the very reason why many of the Central American asylum seekers/migrants end up fleeing their own countries and trying to get to the US. And that underlying MS-13 problem is actually such a huge problem in Central America because of past US policies, coupled with local corrupt regimes. MS-13 didn't begin in El Salvador. It was created in Los Angeles in the early 1980s as part of Salvadoran refugees efforts to protect themselves from other gangs who were targeting them. It quickly spread to prisons and became one of the most violent gangs on the West Coast. Following the ending of local civil war in El Salvador, which had been fomented partly by US foreign policy, many of the most violent MS gang members were deported to El Salvador. By that time it was a broken, war-torn country and the newly introduced MS savages spread like lice. They rapidly spread across the US and Central America, to become the vicious, evil thugs of today.

So, whenever Trump and his propagandists characterise refugees fleeing Central America as murderers and rapists, remember that they are really fleeing from murderers and rapists, whose power and strength in Central America was made possible by the USA.

Within that context, it is truly great to see the US cleaning up its own mess that is MS-13. I wish it would also provide help and funds to those in Central America who are trying to fight MS-13 there, as part of its clean-up, as in "you broke it, so you fix it!"

Finally, threats to stop providing funds to support Central American countries unless they sort out illegal immigration in the US is a moronic policy which plays into the hands of MS-13 and the like.

looksee

Kimsang wrote: »

At 156 million, Trump tops the list of most viewed wikipedia pages(for people)

Ronaldo is 9th with 90milllion.

You stated that he was the most popular person in the world. Most viewed wikipedia pages does not make him most popular - not in any normal interpretation of the word popular.