Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

pixelburp

Kimsang wrote: »

I guess only a few people truly know if he's innocent or not and he certainly is one of them. Let's assume he is innocent, do you think it would be appropriate to make that kind of joke against someone who's making a false accusation against you?

If he is guilty, I'm with you all the way, he's abhorrent and disgusting and to make this 'joke' makes things 100x times worse.

If you're accused of rape, you don't defend yourself by saying someone's not attractive enough to rape. No adult, right thinking person does that.

It's not about guilt or innocence, it's about how normal, functioning human beings normally behave and act. But I suspect you know this. Accusations of rape, even towards celebrities, are not defended by going "sure, why would I rape you? Too ugly, am I right??"

I think Donald Trump is a cretinous human being without empathy or the emotional range of most normal people. Whether he raped her or not is immaterial - the manner of his defence is disgusting. Again, you know this.

everlast75

Kimsang wrote: »

I guess only a few people truly know if he's innocent or not and he certainly is one of them. Let's assume he is innocent, do you think it would be appropriate to make that kind of joke against someone who's making a false accusation against you?

If he is guilty, I'm with you all the way, he's abhorrent and disgusting and to make this 'joke' makes things 100x times worse.

It's.
Not.
A.
Joke.

Seriously - any time Trump says something that people take offense to, its excused as a joke. I'm absolutely sick of it.

And even if it was a joke - who "jokes" about a rape allegation.

Normal people don't joke about it ffs.

There is something wrong with him and how he views women. This is not a "leftist media" crucifixion of him. They are *his words* and they are absolutely abhorrent.

If you don't understand that, I cannot help you.

Kimsang

pixelburp wrote: »

If you're accused of rape, you don't defend yourself by saying someone's not attractive enough to rape. No adult, right thinking person does that.

It's not about guilt or innocence, it's about how normal, functioning human beings normally behave. But I suspect you know this.

I think Donald Trump is a cretinous human being without empathy or the emotional range of most normal people. Whether he raped her or not is immaterial - the manner of his defence is disgusting. Again, you know this.

Presuming guilt or innocence is helpful though. If he is accused of rape wrongly, that is not a thing an adult would do either, or a right thinking person. How else can you fight these people except with humour? What is he supposed to say or do if we assume he's innocent.

If he's guilty as I've said I agree with you 100%. Of course the manner of the defense matters. If someone made a false rape accusation against you I'm sure you wouldn't be happy. To accuse someone of making an off colour joke in these circumstances seems a bit .... going for low hanging fruit.

Christy42

Kimsang wrote: »

I guess only a few people truly know if he's innocent or not and he certainly is one of them. Let's assume he is innocent, do you think it would be appropriate to make that kind of joke against someone who's making a false accusation against you?

If he is guilty, I'm with you all the way, he's abhorrent and disgusting and to make this 'joke' makes things 100x times worse.

No. It is terrible no matter what. It is utterly disgusting and disrespectful for men and women who have been attacked.

The President's first defense for saying he didn't rape someone is that they were not hot enough.

This is a ******* serious issue and one he knows he has come across badly in in the past. It is not a time to make light of rape.

everlast75

Kimsang wrote: »

Presuming guilt or innocence is helpful though. If he is accused of rape wrongly, that is not a thing an adult would do either, or a right thinking person. How else can you fight these people except with humour? What is he supposed to say or do if we assume he's innocent.

If he's guilty as I've said I agree with you 100%. Of course the manner of the defense matters. If someone made a false rape accusation against you I'm sure you wouldn't be happy. To accuse someone of making an off colour joke in these circumstances seems a bit .... going for low hanging fruit.

Jesus Christ.

I cannot honestly tell if you are winding people up alternatively are so far gone in terms of your hatred for left wing media that you feel compelled to defend this idiot when he says indefensible things.

pixelburp

Kimsang wrote: »

Presuming guilt or innocence is helpful though. If he is accused of rape wrongly, that is not a thing an adult would do either, or a right thinking person. How else can you fight these people except with humour? What is he supposed to say or do if we assume he's innocent.

If he's guilty as I've said I agree with you 100%. Of course the manner of the defense matters. If someone made a false rape accusation against you I'm sure you wouldn't be happy. To accuse someone of making an off colour joke in these circumstances seems a bit .... going for low hanging fruit.

You don't JOKE about (not) raping someone 'cos their ugly to you. You say "I didn't do it" and walk away, leave it to the lawyers if Carroll wants to take it there. This is not a difficult situation to behave like a mature adult. Stop dissembling and equivocating over everything he says as some 4D chess; I can't believe I have to say this but ...

NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T MAKE "JOKES" ABOUT SOMEONE BEING NOT HOT ENOUGH TO RAPE.

If you can't grasp why the US President anyone shouldn't be doing that, instead reframing it as some "poor Donald" narrative, there's no discussion with you. I call it out as the bad faith argument it clearly is.

Kimsang

everlast75 wrote: »

It's.



And even if it was a joke - who "jokes" about a rape allegation.

Normal people don't joke about it ffs.

If you don't understand that, I cannot help you.

Who jokes about a rape allegation? Maybe someone who's just had an abhorrent allegation about them that wasn't true. I'm not condoning it, nor is it something I'd do, but he could very well be innocent of this charge...

everlast75

pixelburp wrote: »

You don't JOKE about (not) raping someone 'cos their ugly to you. You say "I didn't do it" and walk away, leave it to the lawyers if Carroll wants to take it there. This is not a difficult situation to behave like a mature adult. Stop dissembling and equivocating over everything he says as some 4D chess; I can't believe I have to say this but ...

NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T MAKE "JOKES" ABOUT SOMEONE BEING NOT HOT ENOUGH TO RAPE.

If you can't grasp why the US President anyone shouldn't be doing that, instead reframing it as some "poor Donald" narrative, there's no discussion with you. I call it out as the bad faith argument it clearly is.

Not to mention the fact that his post says we should presume guilt or innocence referring to Trump and thinks that this might be a good idea for defending him.

16 plus women would like a word.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Their posturing on the internet about it is mostly done with their trousers round their ankles with a packet of tissues on the table.
He is the God of trolls and morons. If you support him, you are either/or, plain and simple.

For the love of god. It should go without saying that his kind of post is completely unacceptable here. Third person sanctioned.

pixelburp

Kimsang wrote: »

Who jokes about a rape allegation? Maybe someone who's just had an abhorrent allegation about them that wasn't true. I'm not condoning it, nor is it something I'd do, but he could very well be innocent of this charge...

Again, you're equivocating. NOBODY is arguing over presumption of guilt, it is a shockingly horrible thing to say in any context...

If it was meant seriously: it was a sh*tty thing to say.
If it was meant as a joke: it remains, a sh*tty thing to say.

YOU DON'T MAKE JOKES ABOUT BEING NOT BEING HOT ENOUGH RAPE.

You just don't. Unless you're a cretin with an empathy gap.

You say "you don't condone", yet are jumping through hoops to try and reframe the narrative, again, with fairly naked contrarianism. I presume this is technically the fault of "The Left" once again?

Kimsang

everlast75 wrote: »

Not to mention the fact that his post says we should presume guilt or innocence referring to Trump and thinks that this might be a good idea for defending him.

16 plus women would like a word.

Its called a thought experiment. Its a way of broadening your horizons.
Consider both outcomes. Not just one.

If someone made a false accusation against me, I wouldn't be happy , and I'm not exactly sure what I would say or do.

If someone made a false accusation against you, would you be able to act so nice and reasonable towards them? Can you answer this honestly please?

Kimsang

pixelburp wrote: »

Again, you're equivocating. NOBODY is arguing over presumption of guilt, it is a shockingly horrible thing to say in any context...

If it was meant seriously: it was a sh*tty thing to say.
If it was meant as a joke: it remains, a sh*tty thing to say.

YOU DON'T MAKE JOKES ABOUT BEING NOT BEING HOT ENOUGH RAPE.

You just don't. Unless you're a cretin with an empathy gap.

You say "you don't condone", yet are jumping through hoops to try and reframe the narrative, again, with fairly naked contrarianism. I presume this is technically the fault of "The Left" once again?

Its called a thought experiment. I'm not equivocating anything. Either he's guilty or he's innocent, and lets assume both SEPARATELY.

If he's guilty and he made that remark, he's everything you say he is, and you can't stop making the same arguments over and over.

BUT if he's innocent and he made that remark, then you are severely jumping the gun. This is the part you fail to consider.

I'll ask you the same question I asked the previous poster..

If someone made such a serious and false accusation against you, would you be able to treat them with decency and kindness and not get upset and make jokes?

Igotadose

Kimsang wrote: »

BUT if he's innocent and he made that remark, then you are severely jumping the gun. This is the part you fail to consider.

Are you saying Trump's engaging in a thought experiment? Now *that* sounds like a joke.

It's not a thought experiment, and if it was, are you saying that the POTUS is playing a thought experiment on the nation? Really? Talk about unsupportable behavior!

Or are you saying that Trump's innocent, and it's o.k. to make a joke about rape? Because there's no thought experiment to be run then. He's wrong.

everlast75

Kimsang wrote: »

Its called a thought experiment. Its a way of broadening your horizons.
Consider both outcomes. Not just one.

If someone made a false accusation against me, I wouldn't be happy , and I'm not exactly sure what I would say or do.

If someone made a false accusation against you, would you be able to act so nice and reasonable towards them? Can you answer this honestly please?

I would say that i didn't do it, it's not in my nature to do something like that, it's abhorrent, if I lived a million years i would never do anything like that.

That's what a normal person would say.

I WOULD NEVER SAY "she's not my type" because it introduces a qualification to the idea that I might do it, *if* she were my type.

If your instinct is to "joke" about it rather than be repulsed by the idea of it, then its a red flag in terms of how you view women.

But when I guess you brag to your mates about "moving on women like a bitch" or "grabbing them by the *****", or describe your daughter as a "piece of ass", or have multiple affairs with your multiple wives, the red flags are already there.

pixelburp

Kimsang wrote: »

Its called a thought experiment. I'm not equivocating anything. Either he's guilty or he's innocent, and lets assume both SEPARATELY.

If he's guilty and he made that remark, he's everything you say he is, and you can't stop making the same arguments over and over.

BUT if he's innocent and he made that remark, then you are severely jumping the gun. This is the part you fail to consider.

I'll ask you the same question I asked the previous poster..

So right, you're being contrary for the sake of it. At least you're being honest. I respect that at least.

I suspect you're intentionally misreading peoples' comments, because not for the first time you're mis-reading mine

I'll see if I can try, one last time: my disgust is NOT about guilt or innocence; it is about the manner in which a person responds to the allegation. Making jokes that someone isn't hot enough to rape is not "off colour", it's a disgusting reflection on a person's ability to be empathic or mature in a serious situation.

If he is innocent, then he is innocent. That's the law. He's still a cretin for making "jokes" about women not being his type enough to rape. That's not jumping the gun, can you seriously not understand this?

If I was accused ? I deny it, use an alibi if I have it, and walk away. This is not a particularly low bar to hurdle. But then I don't have a laundry list of rape allegations to my name, coupled with various examples of poor comments re. women's bodies on record either.

But then even if it I didn't, it's a horrible thing to say, joke or not. And even IF someone made it in a moment of poor judgement, you walk it back immediately. Apologise and repeat your innocence. Again, not low bar, and boilerplate behaviour for a functioning, emotionally mature adult.

Kimsang

pixelburp wrote: »

So right, you're being contrary for the sake of it. At least you're being honest. I respect that at least.

I suspect you're intentionally misreading peoples' comments, because not for the first time you're mis-reading mine.

I'll see if I can try, one last time: my disgust is NOT about guilt or innocence; it is about the manner in which a person responds to the allegation. Making jokes that someone isn't hot enough to rape is not "off colour", it's a disgusting reflection on a person's ability to be empathic or mature in a serious situation.

If he is innocent, then he is innocent. That's the law. He's still a cretin for making "jokes" about women not being his type enough to rape. That's not jumping the gun, can you seriously not understand this?

If I was accused ? I deny it, use an alibi if I have it, and walk away. This is not a particularly low bar to hurdle. But then I don't have a laundry list of rape allegations to my name, coupled with various examples of poor comments re. women's bodies on record either.

Please ask me my intentions instead of just telling me them. No you are incorrect, my intention here is to highlight the absurdity in the flip of innocent until proven guilty presumption. This is part of what I would say people are fed up with, etc.. why Trump got elected.



And back to the argument. You are not understanding me. I understand you perfectly. Let me try again.

You are saying it doesn't matter if he's guilty or innocent, he shouldn't respond to the accusation in that way, because presumably we don't know whether he's guilty or innocent. Am I correct that this is what YOU'RE SAYING?

So now finally can we get to my point.
I am saying I agree we don't know whether he's guilty or innocent.
But Trump knows whether he's guilty or innocent. <- you agree surely.

Now either one of two things are happening from trumps perspective.

Either he's guilty, and he made that joke against her, in which case it is disgusting and I agreee with you.

Or he's innocent, and in which case I don't agree that it's abhorrent to make a joke against someone who's just made a life ending accusation against you.

Christy42

Kimsang wrote: »

Please ask me my intentions instead of just telling me them. No you are incorrect, my intention here is to highlight the absurdity in the flip of innocent until proven guilty presumption. This is part of what I would say people are fed up with, etc.. why Trump got elected.



And back to the argument. You are not understanding me. I understand you perfectly. Let me try again.

You are saying it doesn't matter if he's guilty or innocent, he shouldn't respond to the accusation in that way, because presumably we don't know whether he's guilty or innocent. Am I correct that this is what YOU'RE SAYING?

So now finally can we get to my point.
I am saying I agree we don't know whether he's guilty or innocent.
But Trump knows whether he's guilty or innocent. <- you agree surely.

Now either one of two things are happening from trumps perspective.

Either he's guilty, and he made that joke against her, in which case it is disgusting and I agreee with you.

Or he's innocent, and in which case I don't agree that it's abhorrent to make a joke against someone who's just made a life ending accusation against you.

You don't make that joke because it is disgusting. There was someone in England I think who said the only reason they wouldn't rape a particular politician was that she was too ugly. That was disgusting and there was no accusation of rape there at all. The man had not broken a law. Still a scummy thing to do and a scummy message to send out about women everywhere.

The joke is that ye would rape her if he was hotter. That is not a good joke for people to be making. Especially the US president.

everlast75

Kimsang wrote: »

Or he's innocent, and in which case I don't agree that it's abhorrent to make a joke against someone who's just made a life ending accusation against you.

Its not a life ending accusation.

He's had over 16 of them and he's still the f'n President!

Kimsang

Christy42 wrote: »

You don't make that joke because it is disgusting. There was someone in England I think who said the only reason they wouldn't rape a particular politician was that she was too ugly. That was disgusting and there was no accusation of rape there at all. The man had not broken a law. Still a scummy thing to do and a scummy message to send out about women everywhere.

The joke is that ye would rape her if he was hotter. That is not a good joke for people to be making. Especially the US president.

There was a whole lot more context to that story, and that again was a joke. It went "I wouldn't even rape you" and it was Carl Benjamin. The politician was Jess Phillips.

Do you think the Jo Brand joke was as bad, worse, or not so bad?

Kimsang

everlast75 wrote: »

Its not a life ending accusation.

He's had over 16 of them and he's still the f'n President!

They are life ending accusations for other people, maybe that's why he's able to joke about it

Christy42

Kimsang wrote: »

There was a whole lot more context to that story, and that again was a joke. It went "I wouldn't even rape you" and it was Carl Benjamin. The politician was Jess Phillips.

Do you think the Jo Brand joke was as bad, worse, or not so bad?

Not a clue. Don't remember it. Shockingly I won't defend someone out of hand.

Back to this. Still an utterly scummy thing to say. The "joke" defense is pathetic. "Miss we weren't bullying him we were just messing around". People need to grow up and take responsibility for their words and actions even if they are president.

This is the sort of joke you see on incel sites and it is disgusting. We know people take it too far and this is not the message the president should be sending out. " joke" or not.

This is bigger than one allegation. It is a comment about women all over the world. The president saying (or joking) that he would rape women if they were his "type" is not ok. And that is the bottom line.

Dytalus

Kimsang wrote: »

Or he's innocent, and in which case I don't agree that it's abhorrent to make a joke against someone who's just made a life ending accusation against you.

Let's assume this is the case. Let's assume not only that he is innocent (presumption of innocence and all that) and that this is a spurious accusation (which we should not assume without investigation - equally, she should be presumed innocent of the crime of false accusation, and it's necessary to believe her at the very least to a standard that leads to an investigation - but for the sake of argument assume this is the case).

He may want to make a 'joke' of this nature against her to lash out against what he views as a personal attack. Most people would get angry when accused unfairly of something this heinous. It's reasonable enough to assume they'd want to lash out. Perhaps even with such a reprehensible joke as this one. Ideally they wouldn't, it reflects extremely poorly on them and is disgusting in and of itself, but people do stupid things when they're angry.

But he is the President. He should be held to, and conduct himself, in a higher manner than John Doe down the road. Lashing out, in public, is something he should not be doing. He shouldn't be making such stupid, evil, disgusting jokes at all, let alone in the public eye. Because even if this scenario were to favour his side of things in every respect, there are countless women who have been assaulted and raped in the country he represents. These are women he is supposed to serve. Making a joke in public along these lines, implying (intentionally or otherwise) that: a) He would rape someone if he thought they were attractive and b) That ugly women don't get raped, is grossly unfair and harmful to the women who have suffered these kinds of attacks.

Whether he's guilty or not is irrelevant. He should never make this kind of remark as a sitting President. Ideally he should never make it as a human being, but definitely not as President. And given his track record of misogyny I highly doubt it was a joke at all. I'd say he at least meant it as a vindictive remark to insult someone, and at worst he let slip that the main reason he wouldn't rape someone is that he thought them unattractive and not that he thinks rape is a despicable, evil act that he he is incapable of.

pixelburp

Kimsang wrote: »

Please ask me my intentions instead of just telling me them. No you are incorrect, my intention here is to highlight the absurdity in the flip of innocent until proven guilty presumption. This is part of what I would say people are fed up with, etc.. why Trump got elected.

He is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Show me the line where I said otherwise? I didn't, all my comments were about the language he uses, whereas you have chosen to try and contextualise without taking into account Trumps historically poor remarks on this front. This is about the language and conduct an adult - a politician - should be expected to behave by.

If he makes a subsequent statement to the effect of "that was a horrible thing to say and I'm sorry if it caused offence", then fair play. Given he won't even admit that he got it wrong when he called for the Central Park 5 execution, I won't hold my breath. It's not his style to apologise.

Kimsang wrote: »

Now either one of two things are happening from trumps perspective.

Either he's guilty, and he made that joke against her, in which case it is disgusting and I agreee with you.

Or he's innocent, and in which case I don't agree that it's abhorrent to make a joke against someone who's just made a life ending accusation against you.

Right, I disagree. Innocence doesn't give carte blanche or change the context of the comment.. At the VERY BEST, it's crass and inappropriate, at worst it's insensitive, disgusting - but entirely in keeping with Trumps previous comments in relation to the female body (pussygate, "bleeding out of her whatever" etc. etc.).

He can be innocent, have the perfect alibi and be at a charity aution for orphan puppies for all the difference it makes to the comment. It's a disgusting comment to make in any context.

He's the sitting US President, his words count, he's not some randomer on the internet mouthing off (well, he is but I digress); decorum and behaviour of a sober adult is to be expected, and "I couldn't have raped her because she's not hot enough for me" is a stupidly poor, ignorant thing to say.

Kimsang

Christy42 wrote: »

No. It is terrible no matter what. It is utterly

Is a false rape accusation just as terrible? She might be making a false allegation, just as much as he might be guilty. But no-one assumes she is guilty of lying, and no one is assuming Trump might be innocent.

I am withholding my belief until more facts come out.

TomOnBoard

Kimsang wrote: »

But Trump knows whether he's guilty or innocent. <- you agree surely.

Actually, I reckon the point is that Trump doesn't know whether he's guilty or not.

1. He has no internal impulse control when it comes to women, as he acknowledged by his pu$$y tape comments.
2. He has done it so often (waaaaay more than 16 women- they're only the ones to come forward) any one victim doesn't register with him.
3. He is suffering from dementia, so cant remember.
4. What other people would consider the be rape, he considers to be his right.

Igotadose

Dytalus wrote: »

Whether he's guilty or not is irrelevant. He should never make this kind of remark as a sitting President. Ideally he should never make it as a human being, but definitely not as President. And given his track record of misogyny I highly doubt it was a joke at all. I'd say he at least meant it as a vindictive remark to insult someone, and at worst he let slip that the main reason he wouldn't rape someone is that he thought them unattractive and not that he thinks rape is a despicable, evil act that he he is incapable of.

Wish I could thank this 1000 times. He's the freaking POTUS. His words cost lives, sway markets, determine history. Everything he says is recorded for posterity. Everything he does, same.

He's not just a regular Joe living at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.

Christy42

Kimsang wrote: »

Is a false rape accusation just as terrible? She might be making a false allegation, just as much as he might be guilty. But no-one assumes she is guilty of lying, and no one is assuming Trump might be innocent.

I am withholding my belief until more facts come out.

What are you on about? If you can't argue against my comments don't stick words in my mouth.

I never stated that Trump was guilty. I said that this comment was disgusting if he is innocent and disgusting if he is guilty.

Kimsang

Dytalus wrote: »

Let's assume this is the case. Let's assume not only that he is innocent (presumption of innocence and all that) and that this is a spurious accusation (which we should not assume without investigation - equally, she should be presumed innocent of the crime of false accusation, and it's necessary to believe her at the very least to a standard that leads to an investigation - but for the sake of argument assume this is the case).

He may want to make a 'joke' of this nature against her to lash out against what he views as a personal attack. Most people would get angry when accused unfairly of something this heinous. It's reasonable enough to assume they'd want to lash out. Perhaps even with such a reprehensible joke as this one. Ideally they wouldn't, it reflects extremely poorly on them and is disgusting in and of itself, but people do stupid things when they're angry.

But he is the President. He should be held to, and conduct himself, in a higher manner than John Doe down the road. Lashing out, in public, is something he should not be doing. He shouldn't be making such stupid, evil, disgusting jokes at all, let alone in the public eye. Because even if this scenario were to favour his side of things in every respect, there are countless women who have been assaulted and raped in the country he represents. These are women he is supposed to serve. Making a joke in public along these lines, implying (intentionally or otherwise) that: a) He would rape someone if he thought they were attractive and b) That ugly women don't get raped, is grossly unfair and harmful to the women who have suffered these kinds of attacks.

Whether he's guilty or not is irrelevant. He should never make this kind of remark as a sitting President. Ideally he should never make it as a human being, but definitely not as President. And given his track record of misogyny I highly doubt it was a joke at all. I'd say he at least meant it as a vindictive remark to insult someone, and at worst he let slip that the main reason he wouldn't rape someone is that he thought them unattractive and not that he thinks rape is a despicable, evil act that he he is incapable of.

Thank you for this considered response. In principle, I agree with you. A sitting president shouldn't act in this way.

But these things also shouldn't happen:

People shouldn't be able to lose their lives due to a whispering accusation or pointed finger.
Presumption of innocence shouldn't flip to guilty until proven innocent.
All people that make an accusation shouldn't automatically be believed as victims.

In our age of social media, we have moved from a guilt to a shame culture. This has mage huge sweeping changes to how our society conducts itself.

This is exactly the kind of 'joke' trump loves, because he knows liberals will get so upset about it, and he will get so much support among his base. Not because they're sexist , misogynist, etc.. but because they are tired of leftists flipping our culture so recklessly.

If making a joke about rape is misogyny, is making a making a joke about throwing acid in someone's face misanthropy?

pixelburp

Kimsang wrote: »

Is a false rape accusation just as terrible? She might be making a false allegation, just as much as he might be guilty. But no-one assumes she is guilty of lying, and no one is assuming Trump might be innocent.

I am withholding my belief until more facts come out.

Again you're conflating the conversation over language with that of guilt vs. innocence. It's not, it never has been and the presumption of Trumps innocence doesn't preclude the disgusting nature of his 'defence'.

He's the US President. There are expectations of behaviour here that aren't unreasonable. And I think you know this, as by your own words you are conducting a "thought experiment"...

The worst aspect of his comments, is that ultimately they normalise - and trivialise - the issue of rape. That the violation is actually some kind of backhanded compliment, objectifying the woman further. A slippery slope that ends with ... Oh well, she was hot, who can blame me?

I said before. Jesus Christ.

hcf500

RIGOLO wrote: »

So the Trump Administration efforts to rid the US of the scourge of MS-13 continues .

MS-13 Member Sentenced to Life in Prison for Kidnapping, Rape, Murder of 13-Year-Old Whittier Girl

https://ktla.com/2019/06/21/ms-13-member-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-kidnapping-rape-murder-of-13-year-old-whittier-girl/

So the MS-13 gang members kidnapped her the day before , and four of them spent 2 hours driving around with her, raping and abusing her and then to cover their tracks they put two bulletts in the back of the 13 year olds head and dumped her naked body in a vacant lot..

Living up to the gangs motto... “mata, viola, controla,” which means “kill, rape, control.”

At least the TRump administration has declared a 'war' on this menace, Trump talked about taking steps to go after MS-13 in his pre 2016 campaign rallys, Im sure many voted for im based on this message, and it was great to see him deliver on his promises in numerous measures.
Still alot of work to be done to demolish MS-13 but Im sure more will be done in term 2.

The White House and TRump Administration have been talking about this scum for years, with little if any support from main stream media,.

Protecting American Communities from the Violence of MS-13 February 6, 2018
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/protecting-american-communities-violence-ms-13/

What You Need To Know About The Violent Animals Of MS-13 May 21, 2018
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/need-know-violent-animals-ms-13/

Remarks by President Trump to Law Enforcement Officials on MS-13 Jul 28, 2017
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-law-enforcement-officials-ms-13/

President Donald J. Trump is Dedicated to Combating MS-13 May 23, 2018
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-dedicated-combating-ms-13/

The anti-Trumpers are tooting that theirs 'concentration camps and gulags in America " as if , when in reality theres South American gangs taking 13 year old girls, spending 24 hours raping and abusing her and then putting two bullets in her head and dumping her naked body in a vacant lot and theres only one President in recent years who has stood up to the plate and taken them on.

RIP Jacueline Piazza, a 13 year old girl deserves more than 2 bulletts in the back of her mutilated and naked body ..

Great to see a President of the US go after this scum .

trump doesn't give a damn about ms13 or their victims! he is glad they exist because he can use them to as a tool to hammer all Mexicans