Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

dr.fuzzenstein

VicMackey1 wrote: »

I don't think they are. As I said before, I would say the same thing if someone falsely accused me of rape! The media seem to think the story is unbelievable! Far too many holes in it.

Odd the way some people on here make false statements about his supporters disappearing!

Seriously? Do I have to really ask that question again?
Are you really saying what Trump said is in ANY way, shape or form acceptable?
Because you can't seriously be, what Trump said is something I'd expect from a low-life scumbag and it's inexcusable.
Any man who seriously said that should find himself sitting on his ass one second later with a bleeding nose.

Igotadose

VicMackey1 wrote: »

I don't think they are. As I said before, I would say the same thing if someone falsely accused me of rape! !

But... how do you know it's a false accusation?
And, if you were accused of rape, take my advice: say nothing about your accuser. Leave that to the lawyers. It's pretty stupid to engage with someone you're going to be in litigation against.

VicMackey1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Because you can't seriously be, what Trump said is something I'd expect from a low-life scumbag and it's inexcusable.
Any man who seriously said that should find himself sitting on his ass one second later with a bleeding nose.

Presuming that Trump is innocent, I see nothing wrong with what he said!

So if I was accused of rape, and I said she wasn't my type, you think I should be assaulted for it?

Igotadose

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Presuming that Trump is innocent, I see nothing wrong with what he said!

So if I was accused of rape, and I said she wasn't my type, you think I should be assaulted for it?

If you were POTUS, you should be derided for it. Assaulted? Who is assaulting anyone? If you were POTUS, responsible for the safety and security of every single American, you should show respect for the law at every turn and be called on it when you don't.

If you're Joe Blogs from Topeka, the rules are somewhat different, you're not responsible to anyone but yourself and your family.

VicMackey1

Igotadose wrote: »

But... how do you know it's a false accusation?
And, if you were accused of rape, take my advice: say nothing about your accuser. Leave that to the lawyers. It's pretty stupid to engage with someone you're going to be in litigation against.

Read the interviews with this woman, her story about the alleged rape. TBH she sounds like a fruitcake! Great for her book though, all this publicity! I wasn't accused of rape btw so no worries there. Thanks for the advice though

VicMackey1

Igotadose wrote: »

If you were POTUS, you should be derided for it. Assaulted? Who is assaulting anyone? If you were POTUS, responsible for the safety and security of every single American, you should show respect for the law at every turn and be called on it when you don't.

If you're Joe Blogs from Topeka, the rules are somewhat different, you're not responsible to anyone but yourself and your family.

It has nothing to do with respect for the law. She comes out and publically accuses him of rape! Has she even reported it to the police? He speaks his mind and it is secretly what a lot of people think! If his accuser was a 200kg woman, everyone would think the same thing without him even mentioning it!

The assault comment was in response to another poster.

dr.fuzzenstein

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Presuming that Trump is innocent, I see nothing wrong with what he said!

So if I was accused of rape, and I said she wasn't my type, you think I should be assaulted for it?

Absofcukinglutely.
Do you think it's ok to say a woman is too ugly to be raped?

rosser44

VicMackey1 wrote: »

It has nothing to do with respect for the law. She comes out and publically accuses him of rape! Has she even reported it to the police? He speaks his mind and it is secretly what a lot of people think! If his accuser was a 200kg woman, everyone would think the same thing without him even mentioning it!

The assault comment was in response to another poster.

If it is a false allegation then Donald will do one of his favourite things and sue her for bringing his good name into disrepute?

Surely he will have nothing to fear from discovery in an open and shut case like this? All those under oath accounts from witnesses who she spoke to about the totally didn't happen attack. Surely he will take the legal route and be vindicated?

VicMackey1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Absofcukinglutely.
Do you think it's ok to say a woman is too ugly to be raped?

Presuming it is a false accusation then yes, I would probably say a lot worse! Why should I give a damn about her feelings?

volchitsa

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Presuming that Trump is innocent, I see nothing wrong with what he said!

Do you think that's actually an argument in his defence?

An 80 year old woman was raped in her home by a burglar a while back, so do you think the rapist finds 80 year olds attractive, or was he trying to hurt and frighten her?

rosser44

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Presuming it is a false accusation then yes, I would probably say a lot worse! Why should I give a damn about her feelings?

My God........

Leroy42

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Presuming it is a false accusation then yes, I would probably say a lot worse! Why should I give a damn about her feelings?

Then you are an idiot. Such a line would be jumped on by any lawyer to get you to agree that had she been better looking then raping her would be an option.

Then we get into whether she was dressed up, whether you were drunk, what the lighting was like on the night.

All the time placing you at the place and making it clear that you were very much thinking of her from a sexual POV.

And of course, bringing up the highly plausible scenario that she turned down your advances and so aggrieved were you at being turned down by such an ugly person that you decided to teach her a lesson and show her just how great you were.

peddlelies

She has a dress she can get tested but won't.

This clip doesn't fill me with confidence on her truthfulness. Does she have a medical condition making her slur ?

https://twitter.com/capeandcowell/status/1143193531672141825

Brian?

I'm watching Trump answer questions in the Oval, I feel less intelligent every minute I watch.


The man is obsessed with money and he says tremendous when he means "ok". It baffles me how anyone can respect him.

Midlife

I'm pretty sure Trump can only really say what he thinks at a point in time.

it's interesting to me that when acused of rape/sexual assault, he doesn't say what most of us would...

'**** you, no way would I do that'

VicMackey1

volchitsa wrote: »

Do you think that's actually an argument in his defence?

An 80 year old woman was raped in her home by a burglar a while back, so do you think the rapist finds 80 year olds attractive, or was he trying to hurt and frighten her?

No I dont think it is an argument that could be used in Trumps defense! I said, presuming he is innocent, there is nothing wrong with what he said! What has an 80 year old got to do with it? Maybe that burgular found 80 year olds attractive, I don't know.

Christy42

FatherTed wrote: »

WTF was Trump's response all about "she's not my type"? Does that mean if she was his type he would rape her or is he equating sex=rape?

First one. That is the, errr, joke. It is also not the first time he made a similar comment (he had a rally were he referred to a woman's claim he touched her inappropriately on a plane with " she wouldn't be my first choice". If that is what gets cheers from his base you can see where the deplorable tag comes from.

We know he has already lied about this case as well.

Leroy42

VicMackey1 wrote: »

No I dont think it is an argument that could be used in Trumps defense! I said, presuming he is innocent, there is nothing wrong with what he said! What has an 80 year old got to do with it? Maybe that burgular found 80 year olds attractive, I don't know.

You really think that rape is based on sexual attraction? Jebus. Spend even a little time trying to understand it. Watch Law and Order: SVU at the very least!

VicMackey1

Leroy42 wrote: »

Then you are an idiot. Such a line would be jumped on by any lawyer to get you to agree that had she been better looking then raping her would be an option.

Then we get into whether she was dressed up, whether you were drunk, what the lighting was like on the night.

All the time placing you at the place and making it clear that you were very much thinking of her from a sexual POV.

And of course, bringing up the highly plausible scenario that she turned down your advances and so aggrieved were you at being turned down by such an ugly person that you decided to teach her a lesson and show her just how great you were.

Honestly, I dont think I would agree that had this fictional woman been better looking, I might consider raping her!

Leroy42

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Honestly, I dont think I would agree that had this fictional woman been better looking, I might consider raping her!

So nothing to say about how you are going to be completely trapped in court? It is not about you agreeing, it is about showing that you were open to the concept of rape and were just waiting to find a better looking woman.

It shows your character, which then makes it much easier to believe her version of events.

Itssoeasy

Watching a video clip of trump taking in the Oval Office(don’t know if the same one referred to above) but he made the statement that he has lots of Iranian friends who “are from Iran” So in two days he’s put sanctions of the supreme leader of Iran that’s been dead for thirty years, and has made the brilliant statement that Iranians are from Iran. I don’t know lads I really don’t.

volchitsa

VicMackey1 wrote: »

No I dont think it is an argument that could be used in Trumps defense! I said, presuming he is innocent, there is nothing wrong with what he said! What has an 80 year old got to do with it? Maybe that burgular found 80 year olds attractive, I don't know.

Oh seriously? Yeah maybe that was it. :eek:

VicMackey1

I'm done talking about rape! I know how Carl Benjamin felt now!

VicMackey1

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Watching a video clip of trump taking in the Oval Office(don’t know if the same one referred to above) but he made the statement that he has lots of Iranian friends who “are from Iran” So in two days he’s put sanctions of the supreme leader of Iran that’s been dead for thirty years, and has made the brilliant statement that Iranians are from Iran. I don’t know lads I really don’t.

I think he was just specifying that they were real Iranians and not just sons or daughters with Iranian parents. If you want to pick on someones grammer, just listen to Nancy Pelosis speeches!

What do you think Trump should have done other than sanctions? Launch an attack on Iran?

Leroy42

We are not talking about rape, we are talking about Trumps response to an allegation!

It really isn't that difficult. Top politician in the country, most powerful man in the planet, surrounded by the best people and yet he can't even bring himself to think of anybody but himself.

What would such a comment as he made have done for all the actual rape victims thinking of coming forward? It seems that you think it is perfectly reasonable for POTUS to denigrate all potential victims, you as well has having to deal with the trauma of the event, now must consider whether they would be considered good-looking enough for anyone to believe them.

Outlaw Pete

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Watching a video clip of trump taking in the Oval Office(don’t know if the same one referred to above) but he made the statement that he has lots of Iranian friends who “are from Iran” So in two days he’s put sanctions of the supreme leader of Iran that’s been dead for thirty years, and has made the brilliant statement that Iranians are from Iran. I don’t know lads I really don’t.

Trump is inarticulate, falters often, but is true to his word when it comes to policy promises and the economy is booming.

Obama had the gift of the gab, a great orator, full of promises, but got little done and left America in a mess.

Know which of the two I'd rather have.

StringerBell

Catching up on a few pages of this thread now and then it always stands out more how much of a rolling assembly line it feels like. One goes, another pops up almost immediately to carry on the same line even when they were completely absent from the discussion before... Like clockwork.

Did Trump commit this particular act of sexual assault? Maybe, wouldn't bet against it anyway but as he will not be charged he is entitled to his presumption of innocence.

Do I find the woman in question credible? I actually do, other than the reasoning for not wanting to press charges at this stage. The details and the obvious trauma that comes through when she retells the story. The common victim self blaming psychological aspect. She isn't the best on the interview circuit and doesn't do herself favours at times I found listening to her on Laurence O Donnell but you do have to make allowances for certain factors.

Is it ever appropriate to set a bar for who you would and would not rape? Obviously not.

Whether the man is innocent or guilty, his response was both typical of him and horrific. There is no need to debate it, if anybody tries to argue the other side of that then let them do it with themselves, some things are self evident and need to be treated as such. There is plenty of grey area in life, there is also plenty of black and white.

relax carry on

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Presuming that Trump is innocent, I see nothing wrong with what he said!

So if I was accused of rape, and I said she wasn't my type, you think I should be assaulted for it?

Jesus, you actually think that's a correct/appropriate response in any situation for anyone POTUS or not? Do you not think it sounds in anyway flippant and dismissive of what is a serious charge? I cannot understand anyone who would respond in that way to that charge guilty or innocent as it shows very poor judgement in my opinion.

thomasj

https://twitter.com/Cam_Cawthorne/status/1143312254537994241?s=09

Midlife

Kimsang wrote: »

Thank you for this considered response. In principle, I agree with you. A sitting president shouldn't act in this way.

But these things also shouldn't happen:

People shouldn't be able to lose their lives due to a whispering accusation or pointed finger.
Presumption of innocence shouldn't flip to guilty until proven innocent.
All people that make an accusation shouldn't automatically be believed as victims.

In our age of social media, we have moved from a guilt to a shame culture. This has mage huge sweeping changes to how our society conducts itself.

This is exactly the kind of 'joke' trump loves, because he knows liberals will get so upset about it, and he will get so much support among his base. Not because they're sexist , misogynist, etc.. but because they are tired of leftists flipping our culture so recklessly.

If making a joke about rape is misogyny, is making a making a joke about throwing acid in someone's face misanthropy?

You see this is the bit I have a real problem with. Things are polarised but you're leading to believe that things like rape jokes, making public fun of handicapped people, racism and facism are the resulting backlash of SJW's going too far.

I think this is kind of your point. Given that you keep quoting the thing about SJW's (which by the way makes zero sense, it basically says that social justice warriors act exactly as you would expect people you're classing as social justice warriros to act - WOW, what a revelation)

But you're losing a grip on morality. You can't simply say that Trump and his fans like rape jokes without calling into question their character and morality. THEY LIKE RAPE JOKES! You can't cite the Nazi marches as a backlash against the left without accepting that these people choose to march alongside a swaztika. THEY LIKE SWAZTIKAS!

These actions are utterly devoid of morality and character.

You've basically been arguing for days that the left is making a whole group of people embrace 'being a ****'. You see that wouldn't work with me because I'm not a **** and I hope that I treat people with respect and have a degree of empathy. As your favourite TV show says, 'there's no cure for being a ****'. Equally, i don't think you can just become one either. Your moral compass isn't easily messed with.

Plenty of people back Trump, no problem with that. But the ones who are spurred on by rape jokes, threats of violence and making fun of disabled people, all that stuff. That's a matter of their own character. You can't blame the left for that.