Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

listermint

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Trump is inarticulate, falters often, but is true to his word when it comes to policy promises and the economy is booming.

Obama had the gift of the gab, a great orator, full of promises, but got little done and left America in a mess.

Know which of the two I'd rather have.

This post shows how absunally ignorant you are of the Obama two terms in terms of achievements.

It's almost.


I mean almost ... Like you only started watching when this rich new Yorker started giving out about 'the left' and.... 'putting it to the man'

StringerBell

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Trump is inarticulate, falters often, but is true to his word when it comes to policy promises and the economy is booming.

Obama had the gift of the gab, a great orator, full of promises, but got little done and left America in a mess.

Know which of the two I'd rather have.

True to his word when it comes to policy promises?

And I assume that when he fails to deliver on these policy promises (you know, like he has) it is someone elses fault and not his?

The one thing that always makes me smile is this narrative that America was in such a mess that began with the Trump campaign Its brilliant, despite all reasonable indicators showing the country better than it had been, possibly ever, with unemployment levels steadily decreasing and an economy on the rise etc the truth when it suits me brigade just love to level that one at his tenure.

Obama was your garden variety US Democract President. Sure, he had mitigating factors to point at but of course he disappointed at times and couldn't fulfill many of his aspirations, like every other President.

Trump can't even get that garden variety US Republican President part down, so many failures when he had full control of Congress, but are his supporters disappointed? Course not, someone elses fault sure.

VicMackey1

thomasj wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Cam_Cawthorne/status/1143312254537994241?s=09

I think the woman might have psychiatric problems! Did any of these news networks speak to her before putting her on air? I see why they have all ditched her now!

Leroy42

VicMackey1 wrote: »

I think the woman might have psychiatric problems! Did any of these news networks speak to her before putting her on air? I see why they have all ditched her now!

Sorry, I don't understand the problem. You have spent the last few pages defending, and agreeing, with Trumps line that she was not good looking enough to rape.

The woman is clearly stating that many people think of rape in terms of the sexual fantasy, man giving the woman want she really wants. And as she says, it not, it was painful.

That is, unfortunately, what Trump certainly seems to believe and there are many that think the same way.

Outlaw Pete

listermint wrote: »

This post shows how absunally ignorant you are of the Obama two terms in terms of achievements.

Not sure what absunally ignorant means, but I'm assuming it's not good.

Obama made a lot of promises, particularly about the border and healthcare and he made a mess of both.

Speaking of the border, listen to him here and he's making promises which he condemned when in office and has criticized Trump for having.


https://twitter.com/KayaJones/status/1143514711885004800

Leroy42

Well on healthcare, he actually did achieve something real and so good that when the GOP and Trump had the chance they failed to come up with anything better.

That despite them trying everything to stop the proposals in the 1st place and forcing Obama to water them down to such an extent that they were always going to run into problems.

On the border, wasn't illegal immigration coming down under Obama? Who was in charge the 8 years prior to him coming to office?

TomOnBoard

VicMackey1 wrote: »

I think the woman might have psychiatric problems!

Ah, the defence of the truly bereft! Are you a psychiatrist, qualified to make a judgement on anyone's mental health?

Your post is probably straight out of Trump's playbook titled "How to deal with rape allegations when you get caught": 1. Deny! Deny! Deny! 2. Demean the woman 3. Make clear that she's not my type 4. Undermine her credibility 5. Say she's crazy! 6. Say that no-one believes her (even though they do)
I see you're all the way up to 5 and are just about at 6.

Predictable!

Timberrrrrrrr

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Trump is inarticulate, falters often, but is true to his word when it comes to policy promises and the economy is booming.

Obama had the gift of the gab, a great orator, full of promises, but got little done and left America in a mess.

Know which of the two I'd rather have.

I can't believe people are still spouting this nonsense! Obama inherited a broke country in the middle of recession, he dragged it back up and then Tantrump takes over and all of a sudden he is the saviour of the US and Obama did nothing!

Deluded stance is probably the best description i could give without getting a mod action.

VicMackey1

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Ah, the defence of the truly bereft! Are you a psychiatrist, qualified to make a judgement on anyone's mental health?

Your post is probably straight out of Trump's playbook titled "How to deal with rape allegations when you get caught": 1. Deny! Deny! Deny! 2. Demean the woman 3. Make clear that she's not my type 4. Undermine her credibility 5. Say she's crazy! 6. Say that no-one believes her (even though they do)
I see you're all the way up to 5 and are just about at 6.

Predictable!

No I am not a psychiatrist. I said "I think the woman might have psychiatric problems!

I dont have that playbook you are talking about. Never needed it. Where did you get it?

Outlaw Pete

Leroy42 wrote: »

On the border, wasn't illegal immigration coming down under Obama? Who was in charge the 8 years prior to him coming to office?

He had 8 years. Who went before is unimportant at that stage.

If Trump hasn't drastically sorted out the mess by 2024, I'll be making the same criticisms of him.

Great episode of Frontline here which looks at the impact of the Obama administration's immigration policies.

rossie1977

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well on healthcare, he actually did achieve something real and so good that when the GOP and Trump had the chance they failed to come up with anything better.

A popular healthcare plan at that with higher approval than current president. Obama is a Conservative and copied a working Conservative healthcare plan and Republicans hated it

On the border, wasn't illegal immigration coming down under Obama? Who was in charge the 8 years prior to him coming to office?

There was 12.2 million illegal immigrants in the US in 2007 and that dropped to 11.2 million by 2012.

Obama deported more and at higher rate than Trump has

Midlife

VicMackey1 wrote: »

No I am not a psychiatrist. I said "I think the woman might have psychiatric problems!

Which is making a judgement on someone's mental health. Which is exactly the point the other poster was making.

Anyway, honest question, hand on heart. Do you think Donald Trump would be capable of rape?

I know for a fact I wouldn't. I mean someone being that distressed and just getting off on it is really just insane to me. Really vicious.

So what do you think about Trump. Do you think he is capable of sexual assault/rape?

Leroy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

He had 8 years. Who went before is unimportant at that stage.

If Trump hasn't drastically sorted out the mess by 2024, I'll be making the same criticisms of him.

Great episode of Frontline here which looks at the impact of the Obama administration's immigration policies.

So what has Trump done in the 2 1/2 years since he took over, bearing in mind that this was one of his signature policies? Surely Trump doesn't need 8 years? Did he say at the time it would take him 8 years, I don't recall that announcement?

According to the stats provide by Rosie, it would seem that deportations have not increased that dramatically.

VicMackey1

Midlife wrote: »

Which is making a judgement on someone's mental health. Which is exactly the point the other poster was making.

Anyway, honest question, hand on heart. Do you think Donald Trump would be capable of rape?

I know for a fact I wouldn't. I mean someone being that distressed and just getting off on it is really just insane to me. Really vicious.

So what do you think about Trump. Do you think he is capable of sexual assault/rape?

I knew a woman that would call to my workplace every morning at 7 and begin talking to a dustbin! If I said I think she might have psychiatric problems, would it be wrong?

As for Donald Trump being capable of rape, I have no idea! I can only be sure of myself and nobody else, even people I knew very well!

greenfield21

Surely comparing the Obama and trump economies is one of the most pointless arguments on this forum. Please stop. It's been done to death. Qe, low interest rates, the economic cycle, innovation stagnation the list goes on . Imo neither have had any real impact on the long term economy, maybe some animal spirits from trump driving it on a bit further than it should but thats about all I can give him.

VicMackey1

rossie1977 wrote: »

A popular healthcare plan at that with higher approval than current president. Obama is a Conservative and copied a working Conservative healthcare plan and Republicans hated it



There was 12.2 million illegal immigrants in the US in 2007 and that dropped to 11.2 million by 2012.

Obama deported more and at higher rate than Trump has

Is that figure for 2019 a projection for the year or total deportations from Jan to May?

gizmo

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not sure what absunally ignorant means, but I'm assuming it's not good.

Obama made a lot of promises, particularly about the border and healthcare and he made a mess of both.

Speaking of the border, listen to him here and he's making promises which he condemned when in office and has criticized Trump for having.

Back in 2010, Jan Brewer, the Governor of Alabama signed into law Arizona Senate Bill 1070, also known as the "Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act". Support for the bill as pretty much split across party lines at the time and the debate around it was, shall we say, somewhat heated. It eventually made its way to the Supreme Court where some of the more egregious parts were struck down.

Two years later this became the subject of an episode of Aaron Sorkin's television series "The Newsroom". As part of that episode, one of the characters decried the debate around the issue and said the following...

“My point is that whatever side of this you’re on, the rhetoric we use to talk about these people who risk their lives to have a shot at picking oranges so their kids have a shot at not being dead makes it sound like we’re talking about scraping gum off our shoes. These people chose to take a huge risk to become Americans and they deserve a better descriptor than illegals.”

Why do I bring this up? For two reasons. Firstly, because there is this odd notion constantly espoused by some that Democrats, Progressives, "liberals" or whatever pejorative others wish to apply, are not in favour of either Border reform or, as a more general concept, Border security. Now you've said in your post that Obama condemned the things he spoke about during his Presidential campaign. I would respectfully disagree.

For instance, in 2010 he signed a Bill which increased spending on Border Security by $600m which would go towards not only improvements to the technologies used along the border but also the hiring of 1000 new border patrol agents, 250 I.C.E agents and 250 agents for the U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Fast foward to 2014 and here he is again talking about the issue. During the speech he once again addresses many of the things he mentioned in that Presidential Debate you linked above. Here's an accompanying piece for the video with some responses from Speaker Boehner at the time.

Look at how he discusses the issue in both videos though. The difference between how he and Trump address the issue isn't just one of eloquence or oration skills, it's how he actually addresses the problem. He doesn't speak disparagingly of the people arriving at the border, he doesn't shy away from discussing the criminal element but he also doesn't talk about them invading the country, he doesn't threaten his neighbours and trade partners, he doesn't engage in self-aggrandisement or advocate for ill-advised vanity projects and he doesn't blame everyone on the other side for the problems the country faces.

Lastly, when Obama has since criticised Trump on this subject he hasn't done so because his successor is tackling the problem, he's done so due to the manner in which he's gone about it such as he did in Georgia during the mid-terms last year when he pointed to...

“...incessant, nonstop attempts to divide us with rhetoric that is designed to make us angry and make us fearful . . . to pit us against one another, to try to make us believe that things would be better if it just weren’t for those who don’t look like us, or don’t pray for us, or don’t love like us” and adding, pointedly, “I believe in fact-based campaigns.”

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Trump is inarticulate, falters often, but is true to his word when it comes to policy promises and the economy is booming.

Obama had the gift of the gab, a great orator, full of promises, but got little done and left America in a mess.

Know which of the two I'd rather have.

What do you think of how he phrased his response to the latest accusation?

Manic Moran

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I was just listening to a lawyer describe what they saw at a detention facility in Texas holding children. Sweet Jesus if I treated my dog that way the ISPCA would do me for animal neglect. You can have different opinions on how to handle the situation at the southern border but at least treat the children there through no fault of their own something resembling slightly humanly.

They can't. The problem is budgets, and US federal fiscal law is stupidly complicated. It's not that anyone in DHS or HHS wants the conditions as they are, but they can only do what the congressional budget has allowed for. The number of immigrants which has made it across the border and into processing has blown the budget out of the water: There is no money available to buy diapers, or hire childcarers or whatever in the diaper/childcare bucket of money.

There are a couple of bills to try to relieve the pressure and allocate money for it, but some on the Democrat side are saying that the legislation isn't specific enough as to the use the money can go for. Pelosi says it is. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/24/us/politics/migrants-emergency-aid-border.html The objection is that the bill may also end up funding for the deportation process.

A friend of mine posted up a share on my Facebook feed, it was a photo of an ICE car in front of a starbucks in San Jose this week. Captioned "ICE IS IN SAN JOSE! ICE IS IN SAN JOSE!!! BEWARE!". My god, the idea that the federal agency in charge of immigration might be in a city with a known illegal immigrant population (and about 60 miles from the regional office in San Franicsco) sends people to start warning folks that law enforcement are doing their job. It's insane.

VicMackey1

rossie1977 wrote: »

A popular healthcare plan at that with higher approval than current president. Obama is a Conservative and copied a working Conservative healthcare plan and Republicans hated it



There was 12.2 million illegal immigrants in the US in 2007 and that dropped to 11.2 million by 2012.

Obama deported more and at higher rate than Trump has

Correct me if im wrong, but from what I gather online, the 280k figure is for the fiscal year up to and including May. So that leaves 4 months of deportations to be added to the 280k. If deportations continue at that rate, they will total 420k for 2019 which would surpass Obamas highest annual deportations!

VicMackey1

Senator Ted Cruz questioned a Google executive regarding the Project Veritas investigation into political bias at Google. Google is not making any meaningful attempt to provide answers.

It is interesting how the executive answers the question regarding a quote from another Google exec who was filmed saying

"Elizabeth Warren is saying that we should break up Google. And like, I love her but she's very misguided, like that will not make it better, it will make it worse, because now all these smaller companies who don't have the same resources that we do will be charged with preventing the next Trump situation, its like a small company cannot do that."

Ted Cruz asks the question "Do you think its Googles job to quote prevent the next Trump situation? She replies "I don't agree with that, no Sir"

batgoat

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Senator Ted Cruz questioned a Google executive regarding the Project Veritas investigation into political bias at Google. Google is not making any meaningful attempt to provide answers.

It is interesting how the executive answers the question regarding a quote from another Google exec who was filmed saying

"Elizabeth Warren is saying that we should break up Google. And like, I love her but she's very misguided, like that will not make it better, it will make it worse, because now all these smaller companies who don't have the same resources that we do will be charged with preventing the next Trump situation, its like a small company cannot do that."

Ted Cruz asks the question "Do you think its Googles job to quote prevent the next Trump situation? She replies "I don't agree with that, no Sir"

Project veritas, that place which creates scandals out of nothing. Eg Planned Parenthood. Preventing such a situation could literally mean preventing a foreign regime from attempting to heavily influence an election via search results, Youtube, fake news stories etc. Like we literally know that a foreign regime engaged in an incredibly large campaign to get Trump elected. Asking an entirely different exec fails to actually go into the meaning of her point.

FatherTed

VicMackey1 wrote: »

No I dont think it is an argument that could be used in Trumps defense! I said, presuming he is innocent, there is nothing wrong with what he said! What has an 80 year old got to do with it? Maybe that burgular found 80 year olds attractive, I don't know.

Seriously? Rape is no laughing matter and to trivialize it like Trump and you have done is abhorrent. Shame on you.

VicMackey1

batgoat wrote: »

Project veritas, that place which creates scandals out of nothing. Eg Planned Parenthood. Preventing such a situation could literally mean preventing a foreign regime from attempting to heavily influence an election via search results, Youtube, fake news stories etc. Like we literally know that a foreign regime engaged in an incredibly large campaign to get Trump elected. Asking an entirely different exec fails to actually go into the meaning of her point.

Jen Gennai, the Google exec who was the lady in the undercover video cleared up the confusion on Twitter earlier stating that " Google has no notion of political ideology in its rankings." An email that surfaced since seems to contradict that. The email was sent as part of the Google “transparency-and-ethics” group internal communications. It reads

“Today it is often 1 or 2 steps to nazis, if we understand that PragerU, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro et al are nazis using the dog whistles you mention in step 1. I can receive these recommendations regardless of the content of what I’m looking at, and I have recorded thousands of internet users sharing the same experience,
I don’t think correctly identifying far-right content is beyond our capabilities. But if it is, why not go with Meredith’s suggestion of disabling the suggestions feature? This could be a significant step in terms of user trust.”

Jen Gennai has since deleted her twitter account.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/eorden/status/1143687521777410048?s=19

Hopefully this will prove to be a worthwhile exercise in the education of those who haven't read the report. We may even get mor than what is contained in the report itself.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1143718783036645376?s=19

This organisation is in a complete tailspin, and on the words of Donny junior... "i love it".

Thoughts and prayers folks please.

VicMackey1

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/eorden/status/1143687521777410048?s=19

Hopefully this will prove to be a worthwhile exercise in the education of those who haven't read the report. We may even get mor than what is contained in the report itself.

Dems must be wetting themselves! Christmas has come early! They cant even reply to the tweet using words because of the excitement! There is a huge scramble to post the most idiotic GIFs!

batgoat

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Jen Gennai, the Google exec who was the lady in the undercover video cleared up the confusion on Twitter earlier stating that " Google has no notion of political ideology in its rankings." An email that surfaced since seems to contradict that. The email was sent as part of the Google “transparency-and-ethics” group internal communications. It reads

“Today it is often 1 or 2 steps to nazis, if we understand that PragerU, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro et al are nazis using the dog whistles you mention in step 1. I can receive these recommendations regardless of the content of what I’m looking at, and I have recorded thousands of internet users sharing the same experience,
I don’t think correctly identifying far-right content is beyond our capabilities. But if it is, why not go with Meredith’s suggestion of disabling the suggestions feature? This could be a significant step in terms of user trust.”

Jen Gennai has since deleted her twitter account.

Still not actually saying that political ideology affects rankings.... It's literally suggesting the potential of targeting extremist content which isn't the worst idea. Secondly, it's a discussion, not something the system does.

So basically the latest veritas email leak amounts to nothing...

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Dems must be wetting themselves! Christmas has come early! They cant even reply to the tweet using words because of the excitement! There is a huge scramble to post the most idiotic GIFs!

It's effectively acted as a fear mongering and marketing tool that makes extremists further arm themselves out of paranoia. So good riddance.

everlast75

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Dems must be wetting themselves! Christmas has come early! They cant even reply to the tweet using words because of the excitement! There is a huge scramble to post the most idiotic GIFs!

And I guess the response from the Reps will be a declaration of war with Iran the day beforehand?

VicMackey1

batgoat wrote: »

Still not actually saying that political ideology affects rankings.... It's literally suggesting the potential of targeting extremist content which isn't the worst idea. Secondly, it's a discussion, not something the system does.

So basically the latest veritas email leak amounts to nothing...




It's effectively acted as a fear mongering and marketing tool that makes extremists further arm themselves out of paranoia. So good riddance.

Are you actually being serious? They are referring to Ben Shapiro and Jordon Peterson as Nazis! They are to the right but saying they are far right is completely inaccurate! Ben Shapiro didn't even vote for Trump in 2016! Who decides they are far right? Google do, and it is obvious they are not going to be fair with their tags. When they use the word Nazi, it is emotion that is driving them and not fact!

The second part of the email "I don’t think correctly identifying far-right content is beyond our capabilities. But if it is, why not go with Meredith’s suggestion of disabling the suggestions feature?" Read that and take it in. They are saying that if it is beyond their capabilities to correctly identify far right material, why not just disable the suggestions feature! They are suggesting taking action even when they cant correctly identify if it is far right or not!

And the big take away from it is they have not even mentioned the far left!

Anti trumpers or left-wingers, whatever you want to call them, would gain much more credibility if they called this type stuff out for what it is! Its there in black and white!