Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

dr.fuzzenstein

Yes, we are outraged. Terrible, terrible.
Which law was broken?

20Cent

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Are you actually being serious? They are referring to Ben Shapiro and Jordon Peterson as Nazis! They are to the right but saying they are far right is completely inaccurate! Ben Shapiro didn't even vote for Trump in 2016! Who decides they are far right? Google do, and it is obvious they are not going to be fair with their tags. When they use the word Nazi, it is emotion that is driving them and not fact!

The second part of the email "I don’t think correctly identifying far-right content is beyond our capabilities. But if it is, why not go with Meredith’s suggestion of disabling the suggestions feature?" Read that and take it in. They are saying that if it is beyond their capabilities to correctly identify far right material, why not just disable the suggestions feature! They are suggesting taking action even when they cant correctly identify if it is far right or not!

And the big take away from it is they have not even mentioned the far left!

Anti trumpers or left-wingers, whatever you want to call them, would gain much more credibility if they called this type stuff out for what it is! Its there in black and white!

It says 1 or 2 steps to Nazi's. The YouTube algorithm suggests what it thinks you like. Say someone is watching Shapiro, Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson and their discuss race and IQ for example. Pretty soon the suggested videos in your feed will be full blown nazi content. Not saying these guys are nazis just that they are a stepping stone to that type of content. Not their fault it's the way the algorithm works.

Ben Done

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Are you actually being serious? They are referring to Ben Shapiro and Jordon Peterson as Nazis! They are to the right but saying they are far right is completely inaccurate! Ben Shapiro didn't even vote for Trump in 2016! Who decides they are far right? Google do, and it is obvious they are not going to be fair with their tags. When they use the word Nazi, it is emotion that is driving them and not fact!

The second part of the email "I don’t think correctly identifying far-right content is beyond our capabilities. But if it is, why not go with Meredith’s suggestion of disabling the suggestions feature?" Read that and take it in. They are saying that if it is beyond their capabilities to correctly identify far right material, why not just disable the suggestions feature! They are suggesting taking action even when they cant correctly identify if it is far right or not!

And the big take away from it is they have not even mentioned the far left!

Anti trumpers or left-wingers, whatever you want to call them, would gain much more credibility if they called this type stuff out for what it is! Its there in black and white!

A propos of nothing, BBC are reporting a surfeit of exclamation marks on the loose!!!

The 45th President of the United States is a big fan of a particular type of punctuation – but what does this addiction really mean? Philip Cowell finds out.

email, chat forums, social media and comment threads have all engendered a culture of multiple exclamation mark usage and abusage. It’s really interesting!!! The more you use them, the more you need to use them!!!!!! The more you need to use them, the more you increasingly make no sense!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170301-what-overusing-exclamation-marks-says-about-you

VicMackey1

20Cent wrote: »

It says 1 or 2 steps to Nazi's. The YouTube algorithm suggests what it thinks you like. Say someone is watching Shapiro, Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson and their discuss race and IQ for example. Pretty soon the suggested videos in your feed will be full blown nazi content. Not saying these guys are nazis just that they are a stepping stone to that type of content. Not their fault it's the way the algorithm works.

They are saying that Shapiro and Peterson are Nazis using dog whistle political speech. It is very clear. They are not saying they are the type of Nazis who are spouting obvious vile hatred. Step 1 Dog whistle Nazi, Step 2 Skinhead Nazi.

batgoat

VicMackey1 wrote: »

They are saying that Shapiro and Peterson are Nazis using dog whistle political speech. It is very clear. They are not saying they are the type of Nazis who are spouting obvious vile hatred. Step 1 Dog whistle Nazi, Step 2 Skinhead Nazi.

The more interesting aspect is that Veritas intentionally omitted the rest of the email thread, don't think they have an agenda by doing so? Btw, they do regularly make dog whistles at Neo Nazis. That's a fact. You seem pretty outraged by them having opinions on these guys... Also yet to actually prove what you've claimed in relation to rankings...

20Cent

VicMackey1 wrote: »

They are saying that Shapiro and Peterson are Nazis using dog whistle political speech. It is very clear. They are not saying they are the type of Nazis who are spouting obvious vile hatred. Step 1 Dog whistle Nazi, Step 2 Skinhead Nazi.

"They" or one employee?
We've all seen it. Watch a Shapiro video and pretty soon some horrible stuff turns up on your youtube suggestions.

VicMackey1

batgoat wrote: »

The more interesting aspect is that Veritas intentionally omitted the rest of the email thread, don't think they have an agenda by doing so? Btw, they do regularly make dog whistles at Neo Nazis. That's a fact. You seem pretty outraged by them having opinions on these guys... Also yet to actually prove what you've claimed in relation to rankings...

What did they omit? Do you have any examples of the dog whistles to neo-nazis?
I'm very tired, can you remind me what I said about rankings? If they were planned to censor anyone they claimed to be far right but did nothing about the far left, would you approve of that approach?

FreudianSlippers

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Trump is inarticulate, falters often, but is true to his word when it comes to policy promises and the economy is booming.

Obama had the gift of the gab, a great orator, full of promises, but got little done and left America in a mess.

Know which of the two I'd rather have.

What part of the US do you live in that's a mess and how is it a mess?

ancapailldorcha

VicMackey1 wrote: »

What did they omit? Do you have any examples of the dog whistles to neo-nazis?
I'm very tired, can you remind me what I said about rankings? If they were planned to censor anyone they claimed to be far right but did nothing about the far left, would you approve of that approach?

Please don't ask other people to do your work for you. You can read your own posts. Please read the charter before posting again.

VicMackey1

batgoat wrote: »

The more interesting aspect is that Veritas intentionally omitted the rest of the email thread, don't think they have an agenda by doing so? Btw, they do regularly make dog whistles at Neo Nazis. That's a fact. You seem pretty outraged by them having opinions on these guys... Also yet to actually prove what you've claimed in relation to rankings...

What did they omit? Do you have any examples of the dog whistles to neo-nazis?
If they were planned to censor anyone they claimed to be far right but did nothing about the far left, would you approve of that approach?

The first reference to rankings was a quote from Jen Gennai. She said "Google has no notion of political ideology in its rankings". The email suggests that is not true. Funny too how she deleted her twitter account straight after the email was revealed. If you read that email on don't see a political bias there, then I cant explain it to you!

The word Nazi has lost all meaning of late. Does anyone here really think that Ben Shapiro (who is Jewish btw) is a Nazi? The word is almost exclusively used when emotion rules over logic and fact. I cringe when I see videos of idiots screaming NAZI into the face of an old man because he is wearing a Trump hat. Looks like all meaning will be lost to "concentration camp" too!

20Cent

"Globalists" want to "destroy the west.
White people are being replaced with immigrants by "globalists".
Academia is full of hard left cultural marxists who want to brainwash people and make them communists or something.
The media is liberally biased and wants to destroy the west.
The biggest victims are actually straight white men.

etc
etc

These are consistent themes of these commentators who send these dog whistles. Whether it's intentional or not it leads people down a rabbit hole that ends at much more extreme stuff.

20Cent

VicMackey1 wrote: »

What did they omit? Do you have any examples of the dog whistles to neo-nazis?
If they were planned to censor anyone they claimed to be far right but did nothing about the far left, would you approve of that approach?

The first reference to rankings was a quote from Jen Gennai. She said "Google has no notion of political ideology in its rankings". The email suggests that is not true. Funny too how she deleted her twitter account straight after the email was revealed. If you read that email on don't see a political bias there, then I cant explain it to you!

The word Nazi has lost all meaning of late. Does anyone here really think that Ben Shapiro (who is Jewish btw) is a Nazi? The word is almost exclusively used when emotion rules over logic and fact. I cringe when I see videos of idiots screaming NAZI into the face of an old man because he is wearing a Trump hat. Looks like all meaning will be lost to "concentration camp" too!

Genni deleted her twitter because of all the death threats she is getting from the "not nazi's totally nice people" right.

batgoat

VicMackey1 wrote: »

What did they omit? Do you have any examples of the dog whistles to neo-nazis?
If they were planned to censor anyone they claimed to be far right but did nothing about the far left, would you approve of that approach?

The first reference to rankings was a quote from Jen Gennai. She said "Google has no notion of political ideology in its rankings". The email suggests that is not true. Funny too how she deleted her twitter account straight after the email was revealed. If you read that email on don't see a political bias there, then I cant explain it to you!

The word Nazi has lost all meaning of late. Does anyone here really think that Ben Shapiro (who is Jewish btw) is a Nazi? The word is almost exclusively used when emotion rules over logic and fact. I cringe when I see videos of idiots screaming NAZI into the face of an old man because he is wearing a Trump hat. Looks like all meaning will be lost to "concentration camp" too!

20 cent effectively covered, Peterson more so has appealed to the alt right types and has actively played up to them in terms of rhetoric. In terms of the the omitted material, this was a single email from an email thread. Veritas intentionally excluded the rest of the thread.

Also, the email does not actually show the rankings being affected by political ideology.

Finally, referring to the refugee camps in the US as concentration isn't that out there. They're akin to the camps that the Japanese were put in during ww2. They were also classified as concentration camps. The definition of concentration camp is included below, so no meaning has been lost and I frankly wouldn't wish those conditions on anyone.

"A place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard —used especially in reference to camps created by the Nazis in World War II for the internment and persecution of Jews and other prisoners"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concentration camp

FrostyJack

batgoat wrote: »

Finally, referring to the refugee camps in the US as concentration isn't that out there. They're akin to the camps that the Japanese were put in during ww2. They were also classified as concentration camps. The definition of concentration camp is included below, so no meaning has been lost and I frankly wouldn't wish those conditions on anyone.

Godwin says they are so it is pretty damning.
https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/status/1141125878874877953

VicMackey1

This is my last post here for a while to come. Its draining. Is it really that much of a stretch to admit that there is political bias at Google? They are based in San Francisco where about 9 in 10 voted for Clinton. Google heads and employees were devastated with her loss, probably more so with Thrumps win though. Just have a look at the reactions and the mood in this video. First couple of minutes will do. Its on Breitbart but that doesn't change the FACT that the video is real. Full video, no editing

GoogleInternalOnlyVideo

amandstu

As someone pointed out the Nazis didn't invent concentration camps -but it is fair to say that the term has been coloured ever since by the extreme barbarity,obscenity and shame of the way they were used by them.

In warfare there is probably a justifiable place for them as a temporary measure but for a wealthy country like the US to be adopting any measures like they seem to be doing brings shame on them collectively.

I am not up with the details but I get the impression that relatively poor countries in the front line of conflicts like Turkey and Lebanon seem to be able to assimilate huge numbers of new residents in some kind of contrast to the neo nationalist victim culture that seems to have something of an upper hand in USA and parts of Europe.

Perhaps I am wrong.I have no great information on the situation arising from the exodus of people from Iraq,Syria and Afghanistan..

btw are we ready for an influx of Iranian refugees as a result of Trump's policies?

Manic Moran

amandstu wrote: »

I am not up with the details but I get the impression that relatively poor countries in the front line of conflicts like Turkey and Lebanon seem to be able to assimilate huge numbers of new residents in some kind of contrast to the neo nationalist victim culture that seems to have something of an upper hand in USA and parts of Europe.

Kindof. The Turkish policy was originally to house them in camps, until they became completely overwhelmed and ran out of money, even with the billions of dollars of aid from the EU. Two solutions were put into place.

First, to put further immigration under control, they built a wall. 475 miles of the 566 mile border now have a 3 meter concrete wall with an additional meter of razor wire. The wall also consists of surveillance, electrical sensors, and the like. Anyone who didn't cross at an authorised checkpoint for processing was immediately returned to Syria. Both of these processes are politically controversial in the US.

Secondly, they started settling people out of the camps and into Turkey on a "temporary" basis and shutting down the camps.

On the surface, it's worked... kindof.
https://www.crisisgroup.org/europe-central-asia/western-europemediterranean/turkey/248-turkeys-syrian-refugees-defusing-metropolitan-tensions

Turkey has demonstrated remarkable resilience in absorbing more than 3.4 million Syrians over the past six years. But host community hostility toward these newcomers is rising. Incidents of intercommunal violence increased threefold in the second half of 2017 compared to the same period in 2016. At least 35 people died in these incidents during 2017, including 24 Syrians.
[...]
Turkish society has displayed solidarity toward Syrian refugees, but their compassion is waning. Host communities – particularly those who feel marginalised by ethnic, sectarian or ideological cleavages – perceive Syrians as a threat to their political and economic interests.
[...]Integrating Syrians into the formal labour market is arguably the greatest challenge. Those who remain in Turkey, instead of moving onto Europe, tend to have little education and few skills. Most do not speak Turkish. An estimated 750,000-950,000 Syrians currently work in the informal sector; only 15,000 have obtained the permits needed for formal employment.

The Turkish government classifies them as "Guests", which means that they get access to some basic services, but not the rights of immigrants..

or
https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/14548/is-turkey-trying-to-get-rid-of-syrian-refugees

While Turkey has been praised for showing remarkable resilience in absorbing so many Syrians, there are many indications that host community hostility towards the newcomers has been growing steadily for some time. Especially in cities - Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir - violence against refugees is increasingly common. Perceptions that Syrians represent competition for public services and employment continue to cause resentment. In one survey by the Center for American Progress, eighty percent of people thought Ankara was spending too much money on refugees.

Such grievances go hand in hand with the government's failure to develop a strategy for the integration of Syrian refugees. Ankara has avoided this for two main reasons, the Brussels-based think tank The International Crisis Group says Turkey would like to encourage Syrians to return home as soon as possible, and it fears there would be a public backlash if it appeared to accept that the Syrians were staying permanently.

Domestic pressure has forced President Erdogan to do a complete policy flip, according to Der Spiegel's Istanbul correspondent, Maximilian Popp. Having been committed to protecting Syrians fleeing the war, now "Erdogan would like best to be rid of the refugees as fast as possible," Popp writes.

They've also started to return to Syria now that things have calmed down a bit.
https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/17172/migrants-329-000-return-to-syria-from-turkey which is a solution less likely for economic migrants such as the US is primarily dealing with.

Igotadose

I imagine the Turks didn't separate children from parents as policy, though.

FatherTed

VicMackey1 wrote: »

This is my last post here for a while to come. Its draining. Is it really that much of a stretch to admit that there is political bias at Google? They are based in San Francisco where about 9 in 10 voted for Clinton. Google heads and employees were devastated with her loss, probably more so with Thrumps win though. Just have a look at the reactions and the mood in this video. First couple of minutes will do. Its on Breitbart but that doesn't change the FACT that the video is real. Full video, no editing

GoogleInternalOnlyVideo

Location doesn't mean ANYTHING!!! e.g. Fox News is based in NYC ffs !!!

(just adding caps and exclamations for effects:))

everlast75

How can anyone listen to the inane and angry ramblings of this guy and think for one moment that his temperament makes him suitable for the extremely serious and powerful position he is in. I would love for anyone to contradict me with anything approaching reason.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1143867664047190017?s=19

Kimsang

batgoat wrote: »

The more interesting aspect is that Veritas intentionally omitted the rest of the email thread, don't think they have an agenda by doing so? Btw, they do regularly make dog whistles at Neo Nazis. That's a fact. You seem pretty outraged by them having opinions on these guys... Also yet to actually prove what you've claimed in relation to rankings...

Yes the left generally picks up language and describes it as dog whistling at nazis.

Here is a great example of Roger Scruton, "exposed" by "The New Statesman".

Each Chinese person is a kind of replica of the next one and that is a very frightening thing

This is clearly dog whistling at nazis right?

RIGOLO

everlast75 wrote: »

How can anyone listen to the inane and angry ramblings of this guy and think for one moment that his temperament makes him suitable for the extremely serious and powerful position he is in. I would love for anyone to contradict me with anything approaching reason.

History has already contradicted you.

He is 886 days into this powerful position, has alot of achievements under his belt already. And is strongly tipped by the bookies to win the 2020 election.

So if doing the job successfully for nearly 900 days , and looking like the favourite (with the bookies) to be doing it for another 2000 days give or take a few is not contradiction enough for you, then nothing will.

Thepoet85

^^^ Is time now the benchmark for acceptance? Hitler ruled Germany for 12 years, does that make his actions acceptable?

Leroy42

He is in the job because under the constitution it is incredibly difficult to remove a sitting POTUS. It by no means is a measurement of how well he is doing on the job.

As for achievements, there is nothing out of the ordinary that he has achieved. The economy is going well, but it was doing reasonably when he took over and he has added a massive stimulous by way of a huge corporate tax cut. Lets us not forget that he claimed that the tax cuts would result in the economy doing far better than it currently is so even by his own standards he is actually failing in terms of the economy.

So what else? Better healthcare? No. Better infrastructure, again a big fat no. Has he reversed the decline in manufacturing? Not to any great extent (again one needs to see any improvement in light of the massive tax breaks he has given).

He has done very little to remove the US from foreign wars.

He hasn't built the wall, hasn't locked HC up. He hasn't drained the swamp.

His 'easy to win' trade wars has so far resulted in a socialist hand out of over 13bn to Soy bean farmers. 13bn. I mean seriously. If a 'lefty' attempted to give that level to support to those that simply didn't adapt to a changing market you would be enraged.

RIGOLO

speaking of 'dog whistles' havent many democrats been very public about getting in the faces and harraunging Trump administration officials in public...

looks like some of their supporters have been listening to those dog whistles...

Can you imagine the media meltdown if one of Obamas kids was spat in the face....

This is pretty disgusting, but doesnt surprise me.
The anti-Trump have still not gotten over the election.

imagine what they are going todo when he most likely wins the next one...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/26/politics/eric-trump-chicago-restaurant-spit/index.html

StringerBell

Also, good to know betting odds are now a metric in a positive sense again.

RIGOLO

Leroy42 wrote: »

He is in the job because under the constitution it is incredibly difficult to remove a sitting POTUS. It by no means is a measurement of how well he is doing on the job.

As for achievements, there is nothing out of the ordinary that he has achieved. The economy is going well, but it was doing reasonably when he took over and he has added a massive stimulous by way of a huge corporate tax cut. Lets us not forget that he claimed that the tax cuts would result in the economy doing far better than it currently is so even by his own standards he is actually failing in terms of the economy.

So what else? Better healthcare? No. Better infrastructure, again a big fat no. Has he reversed the decline in manufacturing? Not to any great extent (again one needs to see any improvement in light of the massive tax breaks he has given).

He has done very little to remove the US from foreign wars.

He hasn't built the wall, hasn't locked HC up. He hasn't drained the swamp.

He is in the job, because he won the election . Thats how you get the job .

2020 will reveal whether you are right or whether the American electorate will decide you are wrong.

RIGOLO

StringerBell wrote: »

Also, good to know betting odds are now a metric in a positive sense again.

Its just another metric.
If you pay attention to it you can make a nice chunk of change.
I cleaned up when Trump won, the odds and handicap margin Paddypower were offering made it some of the easiest money I made in 2016

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

speaking of 'dog whistles' havent many democrats been very public about getting in the faces and harraunging Trump administration officials in public...

looks like some of their supporters have been listening to those dog whistles...

Can you imagine the media meltdown if one of Obamas kids was spat in the face....

This is pretty disgusting, but doesnt surprise me.
The anti-Trump have still not gotten over the election.

imagine what they are going todo when he most likely wins the next one...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/26/politics/eric-trump-chicago-restaurant-spit/index.html

First off, Obama kids were mocked.

Second, Eric, unlike the Obama kids, has placed himself at the centre of Team Trump and so unfortunately you will always get crazy people like this.

But at least it wasn't some Trump fan shooting journalists.

And let us not forget that Trump himself called on gun owners to take the necessary action if HC was to win and therefore threaten their gun rights.

And therein lies the problem. Anytime something bad happens like you linked to above, there are plenty of examples of worse on the Trump side. It completely diminishes your argument when clearly you are willing to accept it from your 'man' but yet want something done about it when its against.

Dog Man Star

Mueller's appearance on tv on the morning of the 17th July is significant. The Democratic debates commence tonight on US tv. I believe these two events will swing the polls strongly over the next weeks, as a strong candidate emerges for the Democrats and the truth about Trump is finally broadcast to the masses.

The Trump team may head for drastic actions to distract press coverage. An attack on Iran cannot be ruled out.