Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

He is in the job, because he won the election . Thats how you get the job .

2020 will reveal whether you are right or whether the American electorate will decide you are wrong.

You are of course correct. What I meant to say, I clearly you know it, he is still in the job.

So whilst you are totally avoiding all the points to try to make a smart point, I was not incorrect in what I said. He is in the job because at this stage he has not been removed. I didn't claim that was why he started in the job.

You brought up the metric of time spent in the job. But if you are using time as a measurement that you accept that he is a much worse POTUS that Obama as he got 8 years in the job, whilst Trump is at a partly 3 years.

RIGOLO

Leroy42 wrote: »

First off, Obama kids were mocked.

Second, Eric, unlike the Obama kids, has placed himself at the centre of Team Trump and so unfortunately you will always get crazy people like this.

But at least it wasn't some Trump fan shooting journalists.

And let us not forget that Trump himself called on gun owners to take the necessary action if HC was to win and therefore threaten their gun rights.

And therein lies the problem. Anytime something bad happens like you linked to above, there are plenty of examples of worse on the Trump side. It completely diminishes your argument when clearly you are willing to accept it from your 'man' but yet want something done about it when its against.

or even a democrat who actually shot politicians . just ask Steve Scalise.

Leroy42

Exactly, and that shooting was decried across the entire spectrum. Both Dems and GOP. He got a standing ovation when he returned.

Compare that to journalists getting shot by a Trump supporter, and Trump simply doubles down on 'Enemy of the people' rubbish.

But again this isn't about who has the biggest idiots. POTUS has the unique position of being in charge, being able to bring the country back together. He is failing spectacularly to even attempt to do that.

Unfortunately the US has plenty of idiots, plenty of guns and now a POTUS that revels in widening divisions.

RIGOLO

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Mueller's appearance on tv on the morning of the 17th July is significant. The Democratic debates commence tonight on US tv. I believe these two events will swing the polls strongly over the next weeks, as a strong candidate emerges for the Democrats and the truth about Trump is finally broadcast to the masses.

The Trump team may head for drastic actions to distract press coverage. An attack on Iran cannot be ruled out.

I dont see any strong candidate emerging .

The Democrats are going to do Trumps campaign work for him, they will bring up so much dirt on each other, they will expose crazy policies of the candidates that will frighten off moderate swing voters.
They will reveal how vacuous their positions are.
Joe Biden has been trying to get the on the Presidential ticket since 1984.
Theres so many agendas going on their will be bloodshed (figuratively) on the debate floor whether its the metoo, socialist, anti-old white man, Green New crazy deal , old guard Nancy versus new guard AOC , the plots thickens and the back stabbing will be off the charts.

These televised debates are going to be one of the best Trump 2020 adverts that money can buy.

Kimsang

Leroy42 wrote: »

But again this isn't about who has the biggest idiots.

You are so close to the point here you can nearly taste it! Both sides have their idiots YES... agreed! But the idiots on the right side are rightly called out as idiots. Find me a publication that supports nazis or the likes would easily disprove me.

On the other hand, the idiots of the left are given complete carte blanche within the left, are never called out by their own side, and completely supported regardless of facts. This is how the left are moving. The "TERF wars" on twitter are a good example of the left not calling out itself.

RIGOLO

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Mueller's appearance on tv on the morning of the 17th July is significant. The Democratic debates commence tonight on US tv. I believe these two events will swing the polls strongly over the next weeks, as a strong candidate emerges for the Democrats and the truth about Trump is finally broadcast to the masses.

The Trump team may head for drastic actions to distract press coverage. An attack on Iran cannot be ruled out.

Is this a serious position .

You think the Trump Administration will start a war with IRAN to divert attention away from Muellers testimony on the Hill.

Edit.. Ive just realised your not alone ..

everlast75 wrote: »

And I guess the response from the Reps will be a declaration of war with Iran the day beforehand?

So there are a number of anti-Trumpers who think the Trump Administration will start a middle east war to divert attention away from Mueller testifying..
The TDS runs deep .

Many republicans cant wait for Mueller to get on teh stand, it wont change the findings of the report, no collusion and no obstruction of justice.
but it will give the GOP a chance to expose some elements of the deep state anti-Trump machinations...

Kimsang

RIGOLO wrote: »

You think the Trump Administration will start a war with IRAN to divert attention away from Muellers testimony on the Hill.

I think Trump has done well to stop his hawkish advisors from starting war already!

“I thought about it for a second and I said, you know what, they shot down an unmanned drone, plane, whatever you want to call it, and here we are sitting with a 150 dead people that would have taken place probably within a half an hour after I said go ahead. And I didn’t like it, I didn’t think, I didn’t think it was proportionate.”

-Trump

pixelburp

Kimsang wrote: »

You are so close to the point here you can nearly taste it! Both sides have their idiots YES... agreed! But the idiots on the right side are rightly called out as idiots. Find me a publication that supports nazis or the likes would easily disprove me.

On the other hand, the idiots of the left are given complete carte blanche within the left, are never called out by their own side, and completely supported regardless of facts. This is how the left are moving. The "TERF wars" on twitter are a good example of the left not calling out itself.

Have you even read the Democrat in-fighting? They're practically tearing each other apart at the moment, with outlets and publications in turn criticising the likes of Ocasio-Cortez, Sanders et al for the Green New Deal et al. If anything marks out the left-wing of American politics, it's a demonstrable inability to sing from the same hymn sheet to the extent the Republications can.

And can you stop with "The Left"? It's blatant umbrella reductionism that encompasses such a wide spectrum of political views it makes it hard to maintain a discussion when you rope in as many angles as is required to prove a point.

StringerBell

RIGOLO wrote: »

StringerBell wrote: »

Also, good to know betting odds are now a metric in a positive sense again.

Its just another metric.
If you pay attention to it you can make a nice chunk of change.
I cleaned up when Trump won, the odds and handicap margin Paddypower were offering made it some of the easiest money I made in 2016

So the betting odds were wrong and foolish to follow last time as oddsmakers were incorrect.

Today however those odds are good in your estimation, by the same oddsmakers, what changed I wonder?

Kimsang

pixelburp wrote: »

Have you even read the Democrat in-fighting? They're practically tearing each other apart at the moment, with outlets and publications in turn criticising the likes of Ocasio-Cortez, Sanders et al for the Green New Deal et al. If anything marks out the left-wing of American politics, it's a demonstrable inability to sing from the same hymn sheet to the extent the Republications can.

And can you stop with "The Left"? It's blatant umbrella reductionism that encompasses such a wide spectrum of political views it makes it hard to maintain a discussion when you rope in as many angles as is required to prove a point.

So what is the right and the far right that everyone is talking about?
I agree there is massive democrat in fighting, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Where the right and the left can agree on what is 'extreme on the right'
the left cannot agree on what is 'extreme on the left' (anyone who calls this out is labelled racists/nazi/misogynist/homophobe/etc..).

Imagine you were labelled a horrible slur everytime you tried to call out nazis. That wouldn't feel very nice would it.

RIGOLO

StringerBell wrote: »

So the betting odds were wrong and foolish to follow last time as oddsmakers were incorrect.

Today however those odds are good in your estimation, by the same oddsmakers, what changed I wonder?

They were only foolish to follow if you were foolish enough to believe the numbers for Hilary
on the other hand if like me you had understood the impact the Trumps 2016 campaign was making you would have jumped all over the odds Paddypower were offering and cleaned up ...
besides Paddypower cleaned up on the saps that though HRC was a shoe in.

Dog Man Star

RIGOLO wrote: »

Is this a serious position .

You think the Trump Administration will start a war with IRAN to divert attention away from Muellers testimony on the Hill.

Edit.. Ive just realised your not alone ..



So there are a number of anti-Trumpers who think the Trump Administration will start a middle east war to divert attention away from Mueller testifying..
The TDS runs deep .

Many republicans cant wait for Mueller to get on teh stand, it wont change the findings of the report, no collusion and no obstruction of justice.
but it will give the GOP a chance to expose some elements of the deep state anti-Trump machinations...

Trump hasn't the guts for a war, but being as ignorant as he is, he is giving Iran the same bluster he gave North Korea, with his "fire and fury" nonsense. He threatened "obliteration" of Iran.

A basic education tells you Iran is not comparable to North Korea, in area, terrain, population nor military, a basic education Trump does not have. The US has not won a war since 1945, and it was the Russians who did that for them way back then.

A war against Iran under this cack-handed Administration will be a total disaster for the US, a total humanitarian disaster. Without Congress approval, nor the backing of any allies bar Saudi Arabia. You mark my words, this will be the worst invasion the US ever executed in deaths and inevitable defeat.

Always remember - For all it's funding, the US military has lost every invasion since 1945, when Russia won the war for them.

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

History has already contradicted you.

He is 886 days into this powerful position, has alot of achievements under his belt already. And is strongly tipped by the bookies to win the 2020 election.

So if doing the job successfully for nearly 900 days , and looking like the favourite (with the bookies) to be doing it for another 2000 days give or take a few is not contradiction enough for you, then nothing will.

So that's a "no" then....

TomOnBoard

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Trump hasn't the guts for a war, but being as ignorant as he is, he is giving Iran the same bluster he gave North Korea, with his "fire and fury" nonsense. He threatened "obliteration" of Iran.

A basic education tells you Iran is not comparable to North Korea, in area, terrain, population nor military, a basic education Trump does not have. The US has not won a war since 1945, and it was the Russians who did that for them way back then.

A war against Iran under this cack-handed Administration will be a total disaster for the US, a total humanitarian disaster. Without Congress approval, nor the backing of any allies bar Saudi Arabia. You mark my words, this will be the worst invasion the US ever executed in deaths and inevitable defeat.

Always remember - For all it's funding, the US military has lost every invasion since 1945, when Russia won the war for them.

One of the big problems with this scenario is that Trump is threatening 'obliteration' of Iranian assets/ territory as his idea of a response to an Iranian self-defense incident. His intention is to launch devastating attacks from UAE and the Navy presence in the Gulf. He says he won't be putting boots on the ground. So, with his total lack of mental stability (as evidenced in his phone call with Fox this morning), I could easily see him greenlighting air-and missile strikes if the mood takes him there. He is clearly so 'unhinged' at the moment I wouldn't let him near the kitchen knife drawer.

Brian?

Kimsang wrote: »

Yes the left generally picks up language and describes it as dog whistling at nazis.

Here is a great example of Roger Scruton, "exposed" by "The New Statesman".

This is clearly dog whistling at nazis right?

That’s not dog whistling. That’s an openly racist thing to say.

Brian?

Kimsang wrote: »

I think Trump has done well to stop his hawkish advisors from starting war already!


-Trump

The hawkish advisors he appointed. This is a special kind of mental leap here.

Trump appoints known anti Iran hawks. Trump completely supports their anti Iran stance, including a military build up in the gulf. Trump approves a plan to hit Iranian targets.

Trump then changes his mind on the strikes. Trump is an anti war hero. Huzzah.


I would actually have had some respect for Trump if he hadn’t brought Bolton in in the first place. But Trump appointed Bolton, who has openly talked about regime change backed by the US military in Iran for 2 decades.

Spare me the victory lap.

Dog Man Star

TomOnBoard wrote: »

One of the big problems with this scenario is that Trump is threatening 'obliteration' of Iranian assets/ territory as his idea of a response to an Iranian self-defense incident. His intention is to launch devastating attacks from UAE and the Navy presence in the Gulf. He says he won't be putting boots on the ground. So, with his total lack of mental stability (as evidenced in his phone call with Fox this morning), I could easily see him greenlighting air-and missile strikes if the mood takes him there. He is clearly so 'unhinged' at the moment I wouldn't let him near the kitchen knife drawer.

Absolutely. He is noticeably less incoherent than ever before. He meets world leaders with less preparation than I would put in for a weekly team meeting. He just bull****s his way through them with generalities and a lot of "we'll see".

He has no appetite for war, nor do any Americans after the hoax Iraq war. But we need to remember, the minute Trump is no longer President is the day he meets the fate of Manafort and he will be jailed for life, no question.

Therefore, he is totally unpredictable and more unstable than ever before. I see Mueller's testimony totally tipping the scales on Trump and I predict some crazy moves between then and now. Nixon resigned. Trump will be jailed, along with his son and daughter. That is certain. These next few weeks are key to what happens between now and November 2020. It is not going to be pleasant.

I'll add this: despite almost attacking Iran this week, denying raping a woman because she was not attractive enough and blaming Obama for immigrant children sleeping on concrete floors with inadequate food and no toiletries, he was most animated and angry at Twitter for his pathetic number of followers. Taylor Swift has more than Trump.

And now he's off to meet Abe in Japan for another ****show. No doubt Abe woke up with thoughts of enhancing Tokyo infrastructure and then remembered he was meeting Trump and hit the snooze button. Another game of golf with the fat, lying American while a 23 month old child dies in a river.

Dog Man Star

So, I've just watched his latest speech. This is word for word correct. Trump's response to children dying at the border is nonchalant. "If they fixed the laws, they wouldn't go there. We're building the wall........women are being raped in caravans. Children are becoming slaves because of Democrats. Democrats want open borders and open borders means people dying in rivers. Women being raped at the borders is the Democrats fault."

Someone asks what will he discuss with Abe.

Trump's response is "What I say to him is none of your business"

End quotes


All hope of this working out is well gone. He needs to be removed from office as soon as possible. The joke is over.

Igotadose

Another swamp-dweller in the Trump admin resigning before the ethics probe goes even further. Not even news these days. I think that's what, nearly 500 in the Trump admin that have left since 2017 (aides, staffers, cabinet secretaries, the whole mob).

Some incredible number like that

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bill-wehrum-epa-air-pollution-ethics-probe_n_5d138699e4b09ad014f9330d

MrFresh

The Trump subreddit has been quarantined on Reddit after a number of calls to violence against police officers over the Oregon situation. This is a pretty major step for Reddit.

pixelburp

What's "the Oregon situation"?

That subreddit always seemed like a particularly toxic, nasty little hole; I don't doubt a lot of its members are edgelord teens being shocking and nasty for the sake of it (what else are teens for?), but I guess you can't be too sure.

MrFresh

pixelburp wrote: »

What's "the Oregon situation"?

That subreddit always seemed like a particularly toxic, nasty little hole; I don't doubt a lot of its members are edgelord teens being shocking and nasty for the sake of it (what else are teens for?), but I guess you can't be too sure.

As I understand it, a number of senators from Oregon senate refused to take part in a vote on climate change, because they would lose, and left the house without a quorum. The governor stated she would send the police to compel them to attend session and vote. Most of them fled the state. One went into hiding and advised that any police coming for him should have no families and be ready for a gunfight. He is being protected by a militia. Posters on the Donald subreddit were volunteering to help him repel the police.

TomOnBoard

MrFresh wrote: »

The Trump subreddit has been quarantined on Reddit after a number of calls to violence against police officers over the Oregon situation. This is a pretty major step for Reddit.

I don't think a reddit quarantine means much. Kinda like a mod warning rather than a total ban...

As for the situation in Oregon- it's always been a hotbed of constitutionalism and the recent showdown between the Reps and the Dems on the Climate Bill vote was bound to lead to problems. When the Rep Senators decided to leave en masse and go to Idaho, the Dem Governor called in the State Police to bring them back. Once that happened the militant 3percenters got involved and offered military-style protection to the hiding Reps. So it's not surprising that some of their membership would bring the 'fight' onto social media. I'm sure it's been on the Dark Web for days.

Dreadful harbinger of a possible future in US politics.

pixelburp

MrFresh wrote: »

As I understand it, a number of senators from Oregon senate refused to take part in a vote on climate change, because they would lose, and left the house without a quorum. The governor stated she would send the police to compel them to attend session and vote. Most of them fled the state. One went into hiding and advised that any police coming for him should have no families and be ready for a gunfight. He is being protected by a militia. Posters on the Donald subreddit were volunteering to help him repel the police.

I know this forum is meant to have standards of debate, but ... that's incredible. I've nothing else to say really It's funny how often I've read American political news and thought "if this was a plot point in House of Cards, I'd have thought it too melodramatic".

An astonishing act. F*cking militias, they seem to be more cause of strife in state disputes, but we can all imagine what would happen if they tried to disband them...

These were Republican senators, right?

Manic Moran

pixelburp wrote: »

What's "the Oregon situation"?

That subreddit always seemed like a particularly toxic, nasty little hole; I don't doubt a lot of its members are edgelord teens being shocking and nasty for the sake of it (what else are teens for?), but I guess you can't be too sure.

Oregon is one of the few States with a a totally blue dominated government. They basically have a supermajority, so the Republicans always get outvoted and can't stop anything.

As a result, the Republicans have gone into hiding. Literally. If they don't show up at a vote, there are enough of them that the Oregon legislature does not have a qorum. As a result, the chair has ordered the State Police to arrest the missing Republicans and bring them to the chamber. Since they seem to have shown up in Idaho, there are limits as to what the State Police can do.

There is precedent, in 2011, Wisconsin Democrats fled the state and crossed into Illinois in order to prevent a vote. They stayed in Illinois for three weeks before returning, apparently after a procedural workaround was discovered by Republicans which made their absence irrelevant.

FatherTed

It goes to show this whole States rights stuff usually spouted by the right wingers is just a bunch of BS when it doesn't work to their benefit.

MrFresh

Manic Moran wrote: »

Oregon is one of the few States with a a totally blue dominated government. They basically have a supermajority, so the Republicans always get outvoted and can't stop anything.

As a result, the Republicans have gone into hiding. Literally. If they don't show up at a vote, there are enough of them that the Oregon legislature does not have a qorum. As a result, the chair has ordered the State Police to arrest the missing Republicans and bring them to the chamber. Since they seem to have shown up in Idaho, there are limits as to what the State Police can do.

There is precedent, in 2011, Wisconsin Democrats fled the state and crossed into Illinois in order to prevent a vote. They stayed in Illinois for three weeks before returning, apparently after a procedural workaround was discovered by Republicans which made their absence irrelevant.

I don't think the democrats threatened to kill police officers.

Manic Moran

MrFresh wrote: »

I don't think the democrats threatened to kill police officers.

I don't believe they did either. Then again, Reddit was also a whole hell of a lot smaller back then. You get a large enough userbase, and you'll get people showing up saying anything.

MrFresh

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don't believe they did either. Then again, Reddit was also a whole hell of a lot smaller back then. You get a large enough userbase, and you'll get people showing up saying anything.

I'm talking about the actual senator though.

TomOnBoard

Manic Moran wrote: »

MrFresh wrote: »

I don't think the democrats threatened to kill police officers.

I don't believe they did either. Then again, Reddit was also a whole hell of a lot smaller back then. You get a large enough userbase, and you'll get people showing up saying anything.

Leaving aside the threats or incitement to harm police on Reddit, what appears to be more worrying is the comment of a Rep State Senator following the report that the Governor had asked the State Police to intervene, Brian Boquist told a TV News outlet:-

"Send bachelors and come heavily armed. I’m not going to be a political prisoner in the state of Oregon. It’s just that simple."

Horrendous development.