Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Itssoeasy

Btw today is the twentieth anniversary of the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by the House of Representatives.

Igotadose

26000 Elephants wrote: »

At least let the Syrians do as they please. as it was the Syrians who had been fighting ISIS for years [within Syria] while the US were (indirectly) arming them.

Not sure if its related to Turkeys missile deal. The US have threatened Turkey with CAATSA sanctions if they bought missiles from Russia. The same sanctions they have threatened European businesses with if they work on Nordstream2. Economic terrorism.

Analysis on CNN: summary: puzzling move: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/19/middleeast/trump-troops-syria-npw-analysis-intl/index.html

US was doing well there with just a few thousand troops, in thwarting ISIS and keeping Turkey, Iran and Russia from behaving worse than they are. Now, the US is leaving.

Why? I think because Trump's doing his assigned work from Vlad on an accelerated schedule now that the legal jaws are closing on him. The Kurds have been pretty good allies to the US, and the US is abandoning them. Nothing new there of course, hopefully the Kurds can survive.

mcmoustache

Igotadose wrote: »

Analysis on CNN: summary: puzzling move: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/19/middleeast/trump-troops-syria-npw-analysis-intl/index.html

US was doing well there with just a few thousand troops, in thwarting ISIS and keeping Turkey, Iran and Russia from behaving worse than they are. Now, the US is leaving.

Why? I think because Trump's doing his assigned work from Vlad on an accelerated schedule now that the legal jaws are closing on him. The Kurds have been pretty good allies to the US, and the US is abandoning them. Nothing new there of course, hopefully the Kurds can survive.

I had a suspicion that he just thought it up on the toilet and left everyone scrambling to turn it into policy. Bob Corker thinks more or less the same.


https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1075467190596456449

everlast75

Stone's lawyers had better suit up....


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1075525246499909644?s=19

mcmoustache

everlast75 wrote: »

Stone's lawyers had better suit up....


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1075525246499909644?s=19

And sell more rocks.


It's interesting that Mueller would need anything from Congress, given what we know already. Unless he wants to charge him with lying to Congress.


It's also interesting that he is asking now and not waiting two weeks when the Dems take over.

everlast75

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's interesting that Mueller would need anything from Congress, given what we know already. Unless he wants to charge him with lying to Congress.

Bingo!

Get the transcripts.
Charge him.
Flip him.




Btw - you know who else lied to congress?
Donny Jnr.

He's next. Not to try flip him, but rather get to Daddy dearest.

mcmoustache

everlast75 wrote: »

Bingo!

Get the transcripts.
Charge him.
Flip him.




Btw - you know who else lied to congress?
Donny Jnr.

He's next. Not to try flip him, but rather get to Daddy dearest.

I would have thought that there was enough to flip him already. And the fact that he hasn't been questioned yet hints that he's a target and not a subject. That being said, getting him for lying to Congress to try flipping him is not unprecedented. Cohen was charged with that.


What I find odd is, why now? In two weeks the Dems take over. Why would he be asking Nunes to hand them over instead?

Water John

If Mueller waited the accusation would be of he working in coordination with the Dems.

amandstu

Water John wrote: »

If Mueller waited the accusation would be of he working in coordination with the Dems.

That is a good point.It would also further poison any chances of bipartisanship or trust across the aisles in politics .

mcmoustache

Water John wrote: »

If Mueller waited the accusation would be of he working in coordination with the Dems.

Good point. I hadn't considered that.

Christy42

mcmoustache wrote: »

everlast75 wrote: »

Stone's lawyers had better suit up....


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1075525246499909644?s=19

And sell more rocks.


It's interesting that Mueller would need anything from Congress, given what we know already. Unless he wants to charge him with lying to Congress.


It's also interesting that he is asking now and not waiting two weeks when the Dems take over.

Mueller does not seem like a half measure type of guy.

I get the feeling if he was charging you with murder then he would also have your unpaid parking tickets from that trip being prosecuted as well.

He seems to leave no stone unturned (pardon the pun) in his investigations before taking you in.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1075547946857435137?s=19

When some of the devoted find out he is not the best negotiator after all...

Plus, after Ann Coulter slated him on Twitter, he just unfollowed her....

Rjd2

Igotadose wrote: »

Analysis on CNN: summary: puzzling move: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/19/middleeast/trump-troops-syria-npw-analysis-intl/index.html

US was doing well there with just a few thousand troops, in thwarting ISIS and keeping Turkey, Iran and Russia from behaving worse than they are. Now, the US is leaving.

Why? I think because Trump's doing his assigned work from Vlad on an accelerated schedule now that the legal jaws are closing on him. The Kurds have been pretty good allies to the US, and the US is abandoning them. Nothing new there of course, hopefully the Kurds can survive.

Might be one of the few things Trump has done right in withdrawing the troops. Should not have been their in the first place whatsoever.

Utterly bizarre that the resistance twitter grifters are upset as war hawks such as Rubio and Linsey ****ing Graham though. :pac:

everlast75

Rjd2 wrote: »

Might be one of the few things Trump has done right in withdrawing the troops. Should not have been their in the first place

Surely doing it right would have been giving the houses and allies a heads up before announcing it?

Rjd2

everlast75 wrote: »

Surely doing it right would have been giving the houses and allies a heads up before announcing it?

That's a fair criticism, but for now I'l give him a small bit of credit although obviously as other have pointed , its possible he will back down once the GOP and a heart broken Graham corner him.

Poor Linsey. :pac:

https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1075437350992326656

Credit to Ted for that, rightfully points out a lot of the other dire **** Trump pulls especially his recent "charity" but did give him praise for what might be a rare good decision even if the motives and follow through are an other story.

volchitsa

Rjd2 wrote: »

Might be one of the few things Trump has done right in withdrawing the troops. Should not have been their in the first place whatsoever.

Doesn't work that way though, once you're in, just walking away is not always an option.

Rjd2 wrote: »

Utterly bizarre that the resistance twitter grifters are upset as war hawks such as Rubio and Linsey ****ing Graham though. :pac:

Well, it's another version of the Pottery Barn problem as Colin Powell explained to George W : you break it you own it.

duploelabs

I think the withdrawal from Syria is related to the Saudi/Khashoggi/Turkey situation.

The US withdrawal shafts the Kurds as it leaves them unprotected from the Syrian regime (and thus Russia), the Kurds have been a massive thorn in the side of Turkey with Erdogan launching attacks over the border in to Syrian refugee camps and the leader of the PKK jailed in Turkey.
So Erdogan has been 'done a favour' by Trump and Trump in returns asks them to scale back the investigation in to the murdered journalist to keep MBS on board

circadian

I doubt he pulled the troops out for some alturistic reason, and like people have said the Kurds are going to have a fight on their hands from all sides and it's a shame as they're the only people in the middle East trying to build a democracy.

Quin_Dub

I think the reasons here are far simpler..

He now knows that he is never getting his wall , probably the single most significant "Campaign Promise" that he made so he's thrashing around for a win.

In his mind "I beat ISIS and our troops come home" is that win.

The fact that there are other "benefits" to people that potentially either have dirt on him or the ability to give him money in the future is an added bonus in his head.

However , given the fairly universal displeasure with this decision it will be interesting to see how it plays out , some of his most ardent defenders have been pretty vitriolic in the condemnation..

kilns

Around 2 pm today we should expect another twitter tirade and Fed Chairman Powell will be top of the list today

spacecoyote

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think the reasons here are far simpler..

He now knows that he is never getting his wall , probably the single most significant "Campaign Promise" that he made so he's thrashing around for a win.

Kelly-Anne really is the Queen of Spin:

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1075677435327217664

So, Mexico is paying indirectly because of the revised Nafta deal. They really are scrambling for wins at the moment

Penn

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think the reasons here are far simpler..

He now knows that he is never getting his wall , probably the single most significant "Campaign Promise" that he made so he's thrashing around for a win.

In his mind "I beat ISIS and our troops come home" is that win.

The fact that there are other "benefits" to people that potentially either have dirt on him or the ability to give him money in the future is an added bonus in his head.

However , given the fairly universal displeasure with this decision it will be interesting to see how it plays out , some of his most ardent defenders have been pretty vitriolic in the condemnation..

Yeah I think ultimately it comes down to 'doing something he can claim as a victory for himself and America, while also moving the media onto new stories'. At this stage, it's just classic Trump.

Stallingrad

Putting politics aside I think it is good news that soldiers are brought home from a place they have, arguably, no right being. Their presence is small, their influence minimal (compared to Russia) and if it was my boy or girl coming home, I'd be delighted.

Leroy42

It always amazes me that at, particularly this time of year, so you get so many stories of soldiers coming home to surprise their families at Christmas and the joy the children/husbands/wives etc show.

What always gets me is that no-one ever seems to question why these men and women are away from home in the first place? To what end are their children missing out on having mam or dad with them the rest of the year?

There seems to just be an acceptance that they need to be in far flung places. I think Trump started on the path of asking that question, but then got drawn in by the positive aspects of increasing military spending and thus went with that instead.

If this was part of an overall strategy to disentangle the US from foreign conflicts I would welcome it more, but clearly this is nothing more than his latest idea, based on nothing more than a hunch and without any details or discussion with those that are actually experts in this area and thus have a chance of understanding the longer term implications.

I would also not be surprised if he will use the savings from ending the campaign to argue that the money should be spent on the wall.

duploelabs

Stallingrad wrote: »

Putting politics aside I think it is good news that soldiers are brought home from a place they have, arguably, no right being. Their presence is small, their influence minimal (compared to Russia) and if it was my boy or girl coming home, I'd be delighted.

And what of the Kurds? The people who ultimately took the fight to ISIS on the ground and (according to trump) defeated them. The US withdrawal leaves them without their protection and now the Syrian regime (and the forces behind them) will focus their entire efforts on the Yazidi. A Trumpian way of saying thanks

Stallingrad

duploelabs wrote: »

And what of the Kurds?

It's not good news for them for sure, but 2000 US troops is not going to shape any long term agenda there. The US has no policy there so why keep boots on the ground?

Quin_Dub

Penn wrote: »

Yeah I think ultimately it comes down to 'doing something he can claim as a victory for himself and America, while also moving the media onto new stories'. At this stage, it's just classic Trump.

No Question - All about deflection and hiding other failures.

Shocking Syria withdrawal plan is pure Trump

As is often the case with Trump's foreign policy decisions, there was also a whiff of some kind of hidden quid pro quo.
The Syria pullout order came after a call last Friday between Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
A US departure from the region could potentially give Turkey an advantage in its efforts to pressure Kurdish rebels in Syria and to stop them from bolstering the Kurdish militant group PKK, which it views as a terrorist organization.
In another development that could be connected, the United States on Tuesday approved the sale of a $3.5 billion Patriot missile system to Turkey.
In recent weeks, Erdogan's disclosures about the murder of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul have exposed Trump to criticism from Republican senators over his support for Saudi Arabia's crown prince, who is accused of ordering the killing.
Washington observers will now be watching to see whether Erdogan dials down the Khashoggi issue.

So -

• Trump gets to claim a "win" to cover for his total failure on funding for his Wall
• Erdogan gets a free hand to continue his assault on the Kurds
• Ratheon get a nice shiny new order for Patriot missles

And in return , Erdogan stops making Trump look bad by talking about Khashoggi.

Result all round , eh?

Leroy42

Stallingrad wrote: »

It's not good news for them for sure, but 2000 US troops is not going to shape any long term agenda there. The US has no policy there so why keep boots on the ground?

There is a massive difference between having 2k troops on the ground, and thus the ability at short notice to increase that should events dictate, with a full out withdrawal.

Trump is basically saying that the US is pulling out, they no longer will play any part in that region. Like all deterrents, it is the fear rather than the actual likelihood that is the driver.

everlast75

Quin_Dub wrote: »

No Question - All about deflection and hiding other failures.

Shocking Syria withdrawal plan is pure Trump



So -

• Trump gets to claim a "win" to cover for his total failure on funding for his Wall
• Erdogan gets a free hand to continue his assault on the Kurds
• Ratheon get a nice shiny new order for Patriot missles

And in return , Erdogan stops making Trump look bad by talking about Khashoggi.

Result all round , eh?

Think that ship sailed on the last one.

duploelabs

Stallingrad wrote: »

It's not good news for them for sure, but 2000 US troops is not going to shape any long term agenda there. The US has no policy there so why keep boots on the ground?

Because, as I said, they are a buffer from direct Russian/Syrian attacks