Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Itssoeasy

Wolf blitzer is doing a blinder with Stephan miller here.

Rjd2

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Mattis is presumably opposed to the Syrian war.

This is why I expect Trump an absolute coward of a man to rethink the withdrawal from Syria and especially Afghanistan. The Neocons who love these conflicts will be absolute fuming.

Its ironic, that these moves which are actually rare good decisions in this reign of terror that will probably hurt him most with the GOP. Not the paying of mistresses, political incompetence, xenophobia, nepotism, huge deficit, horror rants, but suggesting scaling back the American presence in the middle east which has always gone swimmingly and would actually be popular with voters.

Don't **** with the war mongers, Donald as you won't win. :P

Imagine how angry Bill Kristol and Graham are right now.:D:D

WinnyThePoo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Mattis is presumably opposed to the Syrian war.

I suppose one could use the word 'activitied'

Hurrache

Rumours as to the reason
https://twitter.com/stevebruskCNN/status/1075898493586292738?s=19

FrostyJack

I knew Mattis would eventually resign, you can only take so much, hopefully he doesn't stay quiet as he has a lot of swing with the Trump crowd, wonder what Manic thinks about all this.

Kermit.de.frog

There is a lunatic in the White House probably compromised by Russia.

What more to say? What can you say at this stage?

But I think its all going to come to an end for this administration very soon.

Hurrache

FrostyJack wrote: »

I knew Mattis would eventually resign, you can only take so much, hopefully he doesn't stay quiet as he has a lot of swing with the Trump crowd,

He's already said lots in his resignation letter, doesn't hold back.

Kermit.de.frog

How pissed off must Mattis have been with Trump saying he had "retired"?

There is no depth to the debasement of a once great office by the current incumbent.

mcmoustache

Rjd2 wrote: »

Its very possible. He flip flops a lot to say the least.

The reaction of bloodthirsty hawks such as Graham, Rubio and rather more depressingly "resistance" twitter and majority of mainstream media will worry him.

I have seen praise from genuine left wingers and certain elements of the libertarian base. I'd hope he sticks to his guns and maybe looks at Yemen (he won't I know ) and possibly Afghanistan.


https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/1075602189576335360

https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1075624993936031744

The US should never have been messing around in Syria. Toppling Assad was a fool's errand and I had similar feelings about Iraq.



But leaving Syria like this is like yanking a knife from you chest - you shouldn't do it on a whim but you should let professionals handle it.

mcmoustache

everlast75 wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, if Trump is compromised, do ye think Putin is cashing in all his chips* before the final shoe drops?



*syria, Afghanistan, even perhaps Trump ruining the economy/ government shut down

Where did the Letter of Intent with Trump's signature come from? It was published but do we know if it came from the US end of things or Russia?

Rjd2

mcmoustache wrote: »

The US should never have been messing around in Syria. Toppling Assad was a fool's errand and I had similar feelings about Iraq.



But leaving Syria like this is like yanking a knife from you chest - you shouldn't do it on a whim but you should let professionals handle it.

The professionals would have wanted to stay in their forever though bringing that lovely American democracy to Syria. You can see that from the anger of the GOP etc.

Mattis is far from a pacifist and Bolton well where do you even begin?

I don't mind the Grahams, Rubios, Krystols etc fuming about this as non stop interventionism is what they live for, but annoyed its only really been the fringes of the left who have actually said "get them out" which is grim.

cenk uygur of the young turks the most high profile supporter from the left I could find and to his credit he did not back down either.

I appreciate Mattis from a professional POV is to good for this mess of an organisation, but if his breaking point was pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan then meh.

I doubt Trump will follow through anyhow, Mattis retiring is the start of the hawks fighting backing back, Trump I suspect does not have the backbone to hold them off.

Its not as if his presidency is going that well outside this tbf.

Larbre34

You'd get good odds of Nancy Pelosi ending up as Acting President before the end of this term the way things are going. Pence will be so full of Russian shrapnel that he will have no backing to take over, Gerald Ford style, and constitutionally Pelosi will be next once she is elected Speaker of the House.

Actually she wouldn't be acting, she'd just be President. I forgot when it happened on West Wing, the President stood aside temporarily and the Vice Presidency was vacant.

Manic Moran

Most disappointed to hear of the pending departure of St Mattis. He and Milley did much to boost the morale of the Army. At least Milley has been selected as the next Chairman, so hopefully Mattis will still leave a legacy in place.

It seems there has been quite a schism in the upper echelons, with reports saying that the Syria decision is supported by Scaparotti, the current SACEUR. Of course, being in charge of NATO, he has more interest in Turkey than the cabinet level, but he would not be alone, and Scaparotti is also well regarded. Over on NBC... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/04/trump-right-about-syria-withdrawing-troops-will-strengthen-security.html

I can’t imagine that whoever replaces Mattis will be as good as he was, and credit to him for standing on his principles. There is much saying that the Syria move was a surprise, but condemnation is a little less unified. I do wonder if this was the correct hill for Mattis to die on, but obviously he felt so.

I’ve been a little offline the last while as a result of my move, but I do note that the well regarded criminal justice reform bill is heading for Trump, which he likely to sign, and I have some friends who are over the moon about the Modern Fish Act, which is on his desk now as well.

mcmoustache

Manic Moran wrote: »

Most disappointed to hear of the pending departure of St Mattis. He and Milley did much to boost the morale of the Army. At least Milley has been selected as the next Chairman, so hopefully Mattis will still leave a legacy in place.

It seems there has been quite a schism in the upper echelons, with reports saying that the Syria decision is supported by Scaparotti, the current SACEUR. Of course, being in charge of NATO, he has more interest in Turkey than the cabinet level, but he would not be alone, and Scaparotti is also well regarded. Over on NBC... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/04/trump-right-about-syria-withdrawing-troops-will-strengthen-security.html

I can’t imagine that whoever replaces Mattis will be as good as he was, and credit to him for standing on his principles. There is much saying that the Syria move was a surprise, but condemnation is a little less unified. I do wonder if this was the correct hill for Mattis to die on, but obviously he felt so.

I’ve been a little offline the last while as a result of my move, but I do note that the well regarded criminal justice reform bill is heading for Trump, which he likely to sign, and I have some friends who are over the moon about the Modern Fish Act, which is on his desk now as well.

So, do you think that this was a well-thought-out decision by the commander in chief?


And while we're here, do you think that this decision advances the USA's strategic interests in the region?

FrostyJack

Manic Moran wrote: »

but I do note that the well regarded criminal justice reform bill is heading for Trump, which he likely to sign, and I have some friends who are over the moon about the Modern Fish Act, which is on his desk now as well.

The criminal reform bill and Fish Act seem to be fairly progressive but some people apparently against them because Trump is supporting them which is madness.

What is the Armed Forces take on Trump being aligned with Russia instead of its allies in Nato? Is that not worrying that Mattis is saying what most of us have been saying for at least 2 years now?

FrostyJack

mcmoustache wrote: »

So, do you think that this was a well-thought-out decision by the commander in chief?

It was well thought out as it distracts from this
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/19/business/treasury-sanctions-lifted-rusal/index.html

ArtSmart

FrostyJack wrote: »

The criminal reform bill and Fish Act seem to be fairly progressive but some people apparently against them because Trump is supporting them which is madness.

What is the Armed Forces take on Trump being aligned with Russia instead of its allies in Nato? Is that not worrying that Mattis is saying what most of us have been saying for at least 2 years now?

Yes.


Yes it is.

everlast75

mcmoustache wrote: »

Where did the Letter of Intent with Trump's signature come from? It was published but do we know if it came from the US end of things or Russia?

Cohen, Alan Weisselberg.... could be them.

To your point (i think) - do you think Putin is putting him under pressure by releasing harmful info now?

everlast75

The lifting of the sanctions against Derapaska will ultimately benefit VTB, the bank that was going to finance Trump Moscow, which bank is commonly referred to as a slush fund for Putin.

The same oligarch that Manafort owed money to.

These all cannot be coincidences.

Leroy42

Mattis must be feeling pretty sick this morning. He should have never taken on the job. People like him think that they can control people like Trump, when in fact all they do his give them an air of respectability.

So Trump can come out with nonsense but his supporters convince themselves that people like Mattis will be the bullwark against the madness. But they neer are. At best they simply slow the process down but in doing so have to stand idly by whilst allowing, and thus condoning things which go against every principle they had.

Finally they realise that they have failed and they have had no impact and are left to slink off, and then accused by Trump supporters (in this case) of running away. Trump says he retired, so not even acknowledging that he tried to stand up to him.

Manic says that Mattis was good for the army, but in reality, as Mattis clearly points out, his acceptance of the Trump doctrine has placed the army in increased danger.

When are people going to learn that these types of people don't compromise, it is win or lose with them. You either stand up or get out, there is no 'working from the inside to curb them'.

Another proud General that has let himself be conned by Trump and his team.

Stallingrad

With a trail of fired and 'retired' staffers who in their right mind would take a post in the Trump administration? A poisoned chalice from day 1. With reasoned people staying away expect more hardliners and nutters to fill the ranks.

This sh!t show can't end soon enough.

everlast75

I'm going to be completely honest here, and I know that it might make me look like an A-hole, but I'm going to say it anyway.

When people who support Trump realise (and most of them will) that he was a con man, that they took too long to realise that what he spouted was a BS artist, who did not care a jot about what happened to them, I will have a very hard time resisting the urge to berate them to some degree for falling for his BS from the start, and for defending him up to the time their proverbial penny dropped.

I know I should be magnanimous, and appreciate that they have come to their senses, but I have to say - that will be very hard to do in the face of them sticking by Trump during all of his unadulterated corruption, ineptitude, cruelty, greed, grifting and downright immorality throughout the last 2 years.

jooksavage

I keep thinking about this video. It's hard to imagine Trump replacing Mattis with anyone who would say things like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnyYhTk1OUg

Igotadose

Stallingrad wrote: »

With a trail of fired and 'retired' staffers who in their right mind would take a post in the Trump administration? A poisoned chalice from day 1. With reasoned people staying away expect more hardliners and nutters to fill the ranks.

This sh!t show can't end soon enough.

There'll be someone. These folks enter into the WH with their eyes open. This WH and all its predecessors.

What's impressive is it's something like 15 cabinet-level positions resigned/shuffled/replaced in barely 2 years. Possibly this is the only good thing about this administration - so much churn very little gets done. As is repeatedly pointed out, imagine if someone as venal as Trump (say, Joe Cotton) was POTUS with both houses in GOP majority and a conservative majority in the SCOTUS. Scary what might've happened. Bigger tax cuts, bigger military, more military adventures, less funding for infrastructure/health/Social Security....

As much as I loathe Trump, the longer he lasts in office *without getting a clue*, that is, continuing on the mayhem that is his policy, the better for a longer-term rejection of the GOP. If all of a sudden he starts getting more harmful things done, bring on the impeachment.

Which is a pyrrhic victory - not like the Democratic Party has been all that great either, but it seems like it's fouled up less frequently in recent history.

everlast75

Igotadose wrote: »

There'll be someone. These folks enter into the WH with their eyes open. This WH and all its predecessors.

I don't know.

He couldn't even get a Chief of Staff!

relax carry on

So I'm back to my unanswerable question for now.

Is Trump an idiot?
Is Trump insane?
Is he just a narcissistic man out of his depth operating on terrible instinct?
Is Trump utterly compromised and acting at the behest of others?
Is it a combination of them all?

Will we ever know the truth of this.

Leroy42

relax carry on wrote: »

So I'm back to my unanswerable question for now.

Is Trump an idiot?
Is Trump insane?
Is he just a narcissistic man out of his depth operating on terrible instinct?
Is Trump utterly compromised and acting at the behest of others?
Is it a combination of them all?

Will we ever know the truth of this.

Is Trump an idiot?
Depends what you mean by idiot. I don't think he is intellectually challenged in the way that most people would understand that, nor do I think he is overly smart. I think he is around average. An average person should not be POTUS. What I think he clearly lacks is an ability to read and understand information, particularly complex information. Everything to him is black/white, right/left. right/wrong. There are no degress. He also appears to lack any curiosity to learn taking the view that others must be wrong as he can't uderstand it.

Is Trump insane? I am not qualified to argue one way or the other, but from my admittedly uniformed position, I would say no, he is not insane.

Is he just a narcissistic man out of his depth operating on terrible instinct?
Yes

Is Trump utterly compromised and acting at the behest of others?
Yes

Is it a combination of them all?
Yes

26000 Elephants

Rjd2 wrote: »

I appreciate Mattis from a professional POV is to good for this mess of an organisation,.

Oh, I dont know about that. His previous gig was with Theranos, so going from that s*it show to the Trump admin wasn't a massive leap.

Tinder Surprise

jooksavage wrote: »

I keep thinking about this video. It's hard to imagine Trump replacing Mattis with anyone who would say things like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnyYhTk1OUg

Thanks for sharing that video... the part @1:57 is interesting

batgoat

Remember years back when Mattis seemed like another bat**** person who was appointed. But overall he really turned out to be the sane moderate in there.