Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Igotadose

Phonehead wrote: »

I'm scratching my head trying to remember if any journalist was jailed by the Obama administration. I know the Obama administration really targeted sources under the espionage act, Chelsea Manning, Snowden etc. I also think it's fair to criticize Obama's treatment of the Press. Both Presidents treated the Press horribly but just in different ways, one sophisticated, one yelling like a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Obama didn't treat the press horribly at all. No President is fond of the press - not since there first was a press. President's know (well, except Trump) that the President's message comes through the media, and the POTUS is never 100% happy with how that message is spread.

Trump treats everyone horribly; "Fake News" is an insult to anyone's intelligence, but due to Trump's endless yammering about it, it's entered the lexicon. Call it lies, or call it the truth. Trump's encouraged violence against the press, has yearned for libel laws and is openly unhappy with the first amendment. Trump, heck, threw a tantrum in a presser. Trump's cabinet rarely meets with the press (Remember how Tillerson had 1 media type following him around? And the criminals like Pruitt, Zinke, and others hid from the press?)

Equating whatever revisionist fantasy you're believing about what Obama did to the press, versus Trump's daily activities is poor.

Itssoeasy

Jim mattis is leaving two months earlier than he planned to as Trump names his replacement.

Edit: mattis will be gone by January 1st.

Phonehead

We'll agree to disagree, wow saying anything negative about Obama does get you a lashing here. I agree Trump is terrible so I'll only comment on him going forward.

Phonehead

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Jim mattis is leaving two months earlier than he planned to as Trump names his replacement.

Edit: mattis will be gone by January 1st.

Trump obviously raging about the resignation letter coverage. It's bizarre how childlike his reactions are..... How the hell did he ever get any business deals done.

duploelabs

Phonehead wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree, wow saying anything negative about Obama does get you a lashing here. I agree Trump is terrible so I'll only comment on him going forward.

Not in the slightest, primarily because this thread isn't about Obama but also it would be enforcement to your position to back up a claim with the relevant citation.
Since you haven't (and very few of the trump supporters do) it's met with appropriate derision

Phonehead

duploelabs wrote: »

Not in the slightest, primarily because this thread isn't about Obama but also it would be enforcement to your position to back up a claim with the relevant citation.
Since you haven't (and very few of the trump supporters do) it's met with appropriate derision

I gave examples above? His attack on Fox News and Associated Press. The only reason Obama got dragged into this thread is because a Trump supporter accused Obama of jailing journalists which I said was incorrect, yet to add balance I acknowledged Obama didn't treat the Press well. Lol FML, I should have said nothing.

duploelabs

Phonehead wrote: »

I gave examples above? His attack on Fox News and Associated Press. The only reason Obama got dragged into this thread is because a Trump supporter accused Obama of jailing journalists which I said was incorrect, yet to add balance I acknowledged Obama didn't treat the Press well. Lol FML, I should have said nothing.

Citation is different to examples

Water John

Its the media coverage of Mattis resigning that has p****d Trump off.

The New York Times reported on Sunday that Trump was enraged by media coverage of Mattis’s resignation which portrayed it as a rebuke to him, and had thus determined to push him out earlier than planned.

Phonehead

duploelabs wrote: »

Citation is different to examples

These were all pretty big news at the time so I didn't think I needed to provide links.

Associated Press Journalists being targeted.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/us/phone-records-of-journalists-of-the-associated-press-seized-by-us.html

Article about the Fox news and White House tensions, details Fox news being omitted and the big News item surrounding a combined refusal by the Press when an attempt by the administration to exclude Fox from a round of official interviews that was to be recorded by a pool camera crew shared by all the major news networks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/23/us/politics/23fox.html

Here's another criticism of Obama on press freedom
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-york-times-criticizes-obama-administration_us_5b572447e4b086f60991ccb3?guccounter=1

Let's move on or take it to the Obama thread as this isn't really relevant to the Trump thread.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Its the media coverage of Mattis resigning that has p****d Trump off.

The New York Times reported on Sunday that Trump was enraged by media coverage of Mattis’s resignation which portrayed it as a rebuke to him, and had thus determined to push him out earlier than planned.

Portrayed ? It was a rebuke of Trump.

dr.fuzzenstein

Phonehead wrote: »

Trump obviously raging about the resignation letter coverage. It's bizarre how childlike his reactions are..... How the hell did he ever get any business deals done.

Well, I guess he has money, and lots of it. You just dangle the money in front of your adversaries nose and make them jump for it, like a dog for a treat.
I'd wager when he does agree on a deal, he will immediately renege on it, saying it was a misunderstanding, you read the contract wrong, it never said X amount in it, your goods weren't up to scratch and with some people he would just not pay, because he thinks he can get away with it and it'll cost them more to fight for the money, so they won't.
And I'm pretty sure sure he'll use bluster and feigned tantrums as a business tactics.
Doing business with Donald Trump has ruined many a business:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

everlast75

Trump called the press the enemy of the people.

Pipe bombs were sent to various news agencies.

Trump again called the press the enemy of the people.

Obama never said anything of the sort.

Please stop with the false equivalency.

Phonehead

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, I guess he has money, and lots of it. You just dangle the money in front of your adversaries nose and make them jump for it, like a dog for a treat.
I'd wager when he does agree on a deal, he will immediately renege on it, saying it was a misunderstanding, you read the contract wrong, it never said X amount in it, your goods weren't up to scratch and with some people he would just not pay, because he thinks he can get away with it and it'll cost them more to fight for the money, so they won't.
And I'm pretty sure sure he'll use bluster and feigned tantrums as a business tactics.
Doing business with Donald Trump has ruined many a business:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

Which just makes you more convinced that there is some serious skeletons in his Business financing closet! It's hard to imagine such a character dealing with shrewd business people.

Phonehead

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump called the press the enemy of the people.

Pipe bombs were sent to various news agencies.

Trump again called the press the enemy of the people.

Obama never said anything of the sort.

Please stop with the false equivalency.

Never said they were the same, in fact I distinctly said that they both went after the media in a different way. Obama was sophisticated, Trump is an angry ranting toddler.

relax carry on

Phonehead wrote: »

Which just makes you more convinced that there is some serious skeletons in his Business financing closet! It's hard to imagine such a character dealing with shrewd business people.

Exactly. He's a narcissistic con man who has destroyed pretty much all he's been involved in. He's been bailed out so many times it would be difficult to figure out who has him compromised more. There is no shrewd businessman, just a bully with other people's money.

duploelabs

Former white house ethics chief has some choice words...

https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1076714764938678272?s=19

Captain Obvious

duploelabs wrote: »

white house ethics chief

What you might call an obsolete job now.

Cheerful Spring

mcmoustache wrote: »

To be fair to Cheerful, he does think for himself and is not trolling. In the skrypal thread, he did eventually come around to the idea that the Russians did it. If he were a troll or someone who didn't care about what happened, this wouldn't have happened.

It's where he gets his information from that keeps setting him down the wrong path. It's mostly Russian propaganda and the right-wing sites that echo it.

You correct I did accept it was the GRU eventually, but I was open to this from the very beginning. I never ruled out Putin was involved. I demanded more evidence and that came in that thread. Yes, I was dubious at first because I did not see any motive for why Putin would go after Skipral. When it was found out these two guys who poisoned Skipral operated in Ukraine, I saw why they went after him. It was revealed by a source and a UK paper published Skipral was providing intelligence to MI6 about Russian intelligence operations in Ukraine. Skipral was familiar with the region.

I don't think I setting down the wrong path. It obvious Russia is engaged in covert activities against the west. You see as only one side is doing this and the west is entirely faultless and not to blame. Skipral end of the day betrayed his country and traitors are not heroes in any country I know of.

mattser

Tis Christmas Eve folks. Chill.

Cheerful Spring

What Mattis resigned because Trump wanted to end another illegal occupation of a middle eastern country? Should speed up the process of ending the Syrian war with them gone. Let Russia, Turkey, Syria and Iran sort it out, there problem

Trump still hell-bent on destroying Iran, don't forget.

Itssoeasy

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What Mattis resigned because Trump wanted to end another illegal occupation of a middle eastern country? Should speed up the process of ending the Syrian war with them gone. Let Russia, Turkey, Syria and Iran sort it out, there problem

Trump still hell-bent on destroying Iran, don't forget.

It's not that Trump is pulling troops out of Syria that is the issue from what I can see. It's the WAY he is doing it that is the problem with people including GOP members of congress. You honestly think the Turks will leave the kurds alone without the americans there ? They'll try and finish what they've been trying for years.

Cheerful Spring

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It's not that Trump is pulling troops out of Syria that is the issue from what I can see. It's the WAY he is doing it that is the problem with people including GOP members of congress. You honestly think the Turks will leave the kurds alone without the americans there ? They'll try and finish what they've been trying for years.

He is president the decision is his to make. The Turks are going to go after the Kurds with or without Trump. If the complainers truly cared about people in that region the Yemen war would be frontline news every day, anyhow. The complainers are only disagreeing with this decision as they believe this a victory for Iran and Russia. It a cold war mentality that we thought had ended but never really did.

Itssoeasy

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

He is president the decision is his to make. The Turks are going to go after the Kurds with or without Trump. If the complainers truly cared about people in that region the Yemen war would be frontline news every day, anyhow. The complainers are only disagreeing with this decision as they believe this a victory for Iran and Russia. It a cold war mentality that we thought had ended but never really did.

CS Did i say it wasn't his call in the end to make ? No, I didn't so lets put that angle to bed thanks, so you won't twist my words on that thanks. The issue is that Trump seems to have made this decision on his own and not gone through the excepted channels when making this decision. ah no the Turks might want to but they've taught twice with the americans there. Of course this is a victory for Russia. Putin is quoted as saying as much.

dr.fuzzenstein

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

He is president the decision is his to make. The Turks are going to go after the Kurds with or without Trump. If the complainers truly cared about people in that region the Yemen war would be frontline news every day, anyhow. The complainers are only disagreeing with this decision as they believe this a victory for Iran and Russia. It a cold war mentality that we thought had ended but never really did.

Yemen is an utter disgrace. It's a secret genocide. But because it's the Saudis, the US is keeping shtumm.
But I can't quite follow your reasoning. I'm sure if it's "fcuk the Kurds", shouldn't it also be "fcuk the Yemenis"?
But maybe the US is tired of being the policeman of the world. Maybe they don't want to be involved in every conflict (with oil) because they're sh*t at it and make it worse every time.
So they might have chosen military irrelevance on the international stage and let Russia and China take over because it costs them too much money with too little results.
The US should be aware that it might make itself obsolete as a world power and it will go the way of the British Empire.

Midlife

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Turks are going to go after the Kurds with or without Trump.

But that's not ture. At the moment it's a US-backed, Kurdish led force which involves US personnel. No way are the Turks going after that.

I'm not saying one way or the other what shoul happen. But it's innaccurate to say that pulling out the Us troops will have no real impact.

Cheerful Spring

Midlife wrote: »

But that's not ture. At the moment it's a US-backed, Kurdish led force which involves US personnel. No way are the Turks going after that.

I'm not saying one way or the other what shoul happen. But it's innaccurate to say that pulling out the Us troops will have no real impact.

Turkey has been telling Trump that they plan to enter those areas soon to take out the Kurds. Trump knows they are going in and US troops could be in harm's way. Turkey is in nato so they trying to avoid a conflict. Turkey is siding with Russia on matters recently and that's the big fear Turkey will leave Nato. There a lot happening here that you overlooking. Do I agree that Turkey should be allowed to wipe out the Kurds no, but the Turks have more influence then you think.

Igotadose

Various WH gnomes having meetings to defuse concern in the financial markets. SecTreas just reconvened a group formed after the crash of 1987. Government shutdown, threats by Trumpy to fire the chair of the Fed (he's been hanging around with too many of the anti-fed **** like Rand Paul and Steve Bannon again is my theory), the failure of the trade war to do other than direct taxpayer money to farmers, a 10 year record (!) for stock market plunge last week... not looking good. Plus Brexit won't help either in terms of international growth and confidence in the international markets.

Just a bad time, caused mostly by Trump's actions and inactions. Though, the market has long been overdue a correction, spiking valuations with a tax cut means, once that wears off, down we go.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/24/us-markets-mnuchin-to-convene-crisis-team-amid-white-house-chaos

Cheerful Spring

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yemen is an utter disgrace. It's a secret genocide. But because it's the Saudis, the US is keeping shtumm.
But I can't quite follow your reasoning. I'm sure if it's "fcuk the Kurds", shouldn't it also be "fcuk the Yemenis"?
But maybe the US is tired of being the policeman of the world. Maybe they don't want to be involved in every conflict (with oil) because they're sh*t at it and make it worse every time.
So they might have chosen military irrelevance on the international stage and let Russia and China take over because it costs them too much money with too little results.
The US should be aware that it might make itself obsolete as a world power and it will go the way of the British Empire.

Turkey's decision to spend $3.5 billion purchasing U.S.-made Patriot missile defense systems, made Trump decision easier. Erdogan was threatening to buy a similar system from Russia.

Policeman of the world? They are cause not the solution. ISIS never existed till they invaded Iraq illegally and with no UN approval. Did Iran and Syria back Isis and supply them with weapons? US allies Saudi Arabia and UAE who backed them. I think people forget it not Shia terrorist groups that target European cities.

duploelabs

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Turkey's decision to spend $3.5 billion purchasing U.S.-made Patriot missile defense systems, made Trump decision easier. Erdogan was threatening to buy a similar system from Russia.

Policeman of the world? They are cause not the solution. ISIS never existed till they invaded Iraq illegally and with no UN approval. Did Iran and Syria back Isis and supply them with weapons? US allies Saudi Arabia and UAE who backed them. I think people forget it not Shia terrorist groups that target European cities.

Given his track record of lining his own pockets, I would wager there's plans for a Trump tower in Turkey that has motivated him also

Water John

Indeed Shia Muslims are far less extreme than Sunni. Fail to see why fences with Iran haven't been mended long ago. But then SA wouldn't be happy.