Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Christy42

Tell me how wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

What most terrifies the US President? Take the Donald Trump quiz of the year

Click on Link

To be fair, it's written to make everyone get high scores but even so, it's pretty incredible.

He probably has entered that space where what he does isn't actually that bad because it's so unbelievable.

Surprised they didn't include "What did he say to a 7 year old about Santa". Expect the article was prepared before that gem.

More than just being a c*nt to a small child it is incredible he couldn't say about 2-3 lines correctly.

The man can't do anything and yet is trusted with a superpower

SeamusFX

You’re making a big leap assuming Trump is pulling the troops out for the right reasons. How can you not see, this man has NEVER done anything for the right reasons! It’s scary to wonder why and the most obvious reason is he’s being blackmailed by Putin, Turkey and/or Saudi Arabia.

Rjd2

SeamusFX wrote: »

You’re making a big leap assuming Trump is pulling the troops out for the right reasons. How can you not see, this man has NEVER done anything for the right reasons! It’s scary to wonder why and the most obvious reason is he’s being blackmailed by Putin, Turkey and/or Saudi Arabia.

Slagging out the withdrawal process is fine, but the constant "RUSSIA~" accusations are proof for many their will never be an acceptable time for him to withdraw. Its understandable really as despite been wrong on so many previous wars mainly Iraq, neocon garbage (hello Bill Kristol and Max Boot) still play a big part in the media and obviously the GOP.

Then of course you have a sizable element of online media who only exist to criticise Trump, the likes of the Krassensteins, Siskland, etc.

He won't ever satisfy the bloodthirsty neocons such as Graham and the resistance bubble can't risk offering nuance on any Trump issue as the bubble that laps them up don't want their views challenged.

The support which has been limited to Rand Paul and a few libertarian GOP members and some relatively unknown lefties in the house probably means that he will walk it back especially in Syria. No disrespect to libertarians and to those lefties they don't really matter in 2018.

Ro Khanna a genuine leftie in the house wrote an article on the withdrawal which was fair. He wants it handled better and while he loathes Trump he is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Obviously accused of been a Russia agent though in the last few days.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/22/trump-was-right-pull-out-syria-afghanistan-this-is-what-he-should-do-next/?utm_term=.67cdd78d614f

Have a read, as I said far from a Trumper. Again you can call out Trump for so much and as Yemen proves his foreign policy is cruel, but in the rare occasion he threatens to do something smart then we can at least look at it with nuance rather than screaming "PUTIN!!!!!!!!" at him.

Christy42

The man got off the phone with erdogen and made the decision.

He has not earned the benefit of the doubt. He is making very large policy decisions.

He may earn the right to have them trusted. Given he messed up talking to a 7 year old I am not willing to trust him.

If he wants me to look at his decisions with nuance then he may describe his reasoning himself. His words. You have seen people attempting to provide nuance on every decision, long after he has forgotten it himself. I get you just want less us involvement instead of randomly supporting the man but you can see why many are skeptical.

prawnsambo

relax carry on wrote: »

God that's depressing.

You got… 12/12

I suggest you cancel the papers, hide your phone and switch off the radio. You are following this man too closely. Even Donald Trump doesn’t remember everything Donald Trump says.

Pretty much all of those are 3 normal responses with one crazy one which must be Trump. Still depressing though.

Glad I'm not the only one. Saw that message after I finished and went into the quiet room to have a good long talk with myself.

Sand

When should US involvement in Syria end, if not now? The US military estimates from the end of 2017 are that the numbers of ISIS fighters remaining were less than 6,500. There is likely more Islamic militants active in western Europe than there are ISIS fighters in Syria. In the wake of the recent Strasbourg attack, anonymous sources in French police stated there are more than 200 identified extremists on their watch-list for that city alone. Mopping up ISIS can be left to the regional forces. Any dream of regime change in Syria is over. The Assad regime and their Russian allies have conclusively won the Syrian civil war. So on either count, retaining US troops in Syria seems both costly and pointless. The US has no key interests in Syria that are served by continued military involvement.

Trump was elected on two main aims: ending US involvement in foreign wars, and protecting the US border with Mexico. If he wants to be re-elected in 2020 he needs to demonstrate genuine progress on both fronts, so in that context the withdrawal from Syria is good politics. That the establishment is in such uproar about it only makes it better for motivating his electoral base.

duploelabs

Sand wrote: »

When should US involvement in Syria end, if not now? The US military estimates from the end of 2017 are that the numbers of ISIS fighters remaining were less than 6,500. There is likely more Islamic militants active in western Europe than there are ISIS fighters in Syria. In the wake of the recent Strasbourg attack, anonymous sources in French police stated there are more than 200 identified extremists on their watch-list for that city alone. Mopping up ISIS can be left to the regional forces. Any dream of regime change in Syria is over. The Assad regime and their Russian allies have conclusively won the Syrian civil war. So on either count, retaining US troops in Syria seems both costly and pointless. The US has no key interests in Syria that are served by continued military involvement.

Trump was elected on two main aims: ending US involvement in foreign wars, and protecting the US border with Mexico. If he wants to be re-elected in 2020 he needs to demonstrate genuine progress on both fronts, so in that context the withdrawal from Syria is good politics. That the establishment is in such uproar about it only makes it better for motivating his electoral base.

He also was voted in to 'lock her up'....

Any moment now she'll be in chains, rather than members of his team

20Cent

Sand wrote: »

When should US involvement in Syria end, if not now? The US military estimates from the end of 2017 are that the numbers of ISIS fighters remaining were less than 6,500. There is likely more Islamic militants active in western Europe than there are ISIS fighters in Syria. In the wake of the recent Strasbourg attack, anonymous sources in French police stated there are more than 200 identified extremists on their watch-list for that city alone. Mopping up ISIS can be left to the regional forces. Any dream of regime change in Syria is over. The Assad regime and their Russian allies have conclusively won the Syrian civil war. So on either count, retaining US troops in Syria seems both costly and pointless. The US has no key interests in Syria that are served by continued military involvement.

Trump was elected on two main aims: ending US involvement in foreign wars, and protecting the US border with Mexico. If he wants to be re-elected in 2020 he needs to demonstrate genuine progress on both fronts, so in that context the withdrawal from Syria is good politics. That the establishment is in such uproar about it only makes it better for motivating his electoral base.

How about making some conditions on withdrawl such as getting assurances from Turkey that they won't massacre the Kurds. He seems to make decisions without looking at the bigger picture or consequences. Moved the American embassy without getting anything for it as well. Not so good at making deals.

Sand

20Cent wrote: »

How about making some conditions on withdrawl such as getting assurances from Turkey that they won't massacre the Kurds

What would any such assurances mean and how would Trump enforce them against a NATO ally? Obama made an error in proclaiming 'red lines' the he was unwilling or unable to enforce.

The reality is Trump and Trump supporters do not care in the slightest about the conflict between Turkey and the Kurds. The US will not enter into a military conflict against a NATO ally. Exiting Syria is politically smart for Trump. His supporters opposed any role in Syria, and they were livid about the appointment of John Bolton. Getting them back on side is necessary for Trump to win in 2020. He certainly wont win running as a conventional tax cuts and gun rights republican.

Exiting Syria now is a better strategy than engineering a frozen conflict with US troops indefinitely deployed in Syria for generations to come.

Leroy42

And drain the swamp, yet many of those on his team or around him are either convicted of or under suspicion of varying degrees of overspending or outright corruption.

But of course Trump supporters only ever remember the promises that suit them.

rossie1977

Sand wrote: »

Trump was elected on two main aims: ending US involvement in foreign wars, and protecting the US border with Mexico. If he wants to be re-elected in 2020 he needs to demonstrate genuine progress on both fronts, so in that context the withdrawal from Syria is good politics. That the establishment is in such uproar about it only makes it better for motivating his electoral base.

People voted for Clinton 2:1 on foreign policy so clearly that wasn't key issue in election.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1078081800918974464?s=19

Can this guy do literally anything right?

pearcider

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1078081800918974464?s=19

Can this guy do literally anything right?

Unemployment at historic lows. Economy booming. Gas at 2 dollars a gallon. Illegal immigration way down. That’s pretty much all the average person cares about. Not whatever minor issue the virtue signaling millionaire elites in California or Washington say. The average person doesn’t listen to these phonies.

everlast75

pearcider wrote: »

Unemployment at historic lows. Economy booming. Gas at 2 dollars a gallon. Illegal immigration way down. That’s pretty much all the average person cares about. Not whatever minor issue the virtue signaling millionaire elites in California or Washington say. The average person doesn’t listen to these phonies.

Unemployment low? Thanks obama!

Economy booming? Thanks obama! (Took trump to blow the deficit though)

Gas at 2 dollars a gallon? Trump's trying his best to ruin that.

Illegal immigration well done? Its been historically low for years. And what, by the way, has he done re: immigration, other than arrest families, detain or lose kids, and in 2 cases - have kids die under his watch.

Please check the facts before spouting shallow Rep talking points.

What about the dozens of scandals? He gets a pass on all of those? If you engage with people on here about those scandals, perhaps we can dive a little deeper into your points.

And btw - wtf is Trump, if not an "elite"? Ffs

Christy42

pearcider wrote: »

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1078081800918974464?s=19

Can this guy do literally anything right?

Unemployment at historic lows. Economy booming. Gas at 2 dollars a gallon. Illegal immigration way down. That’s pretty much all the average person cares about. Not whatever minor issue the virtue signaling millionaire elites in California or Washington say. The average person doesn’t listen to these phonies.

They don't care about their military ? That is what the story is about. Trump (not for the first time) giving away military secrets.

Obama had all the others above done. Republicans still hated him for it. Trump just has yet to mess it up. Though issues on the market may indicate 2019 will unfortunately be a bumpy ride and no one is driving!

Was it one day or two days after the presidential election they stopped caring about corruption in their head of state given that was meant to be why Hilary didn't get in?

pearcider

everlast75 wrote: »

Unemployment low? Thanks obama!

Economy booming? Thanks obama! (Took trump to blow the deficit though)

Gas at 2 dollars a gallon? Trump's trying his best to ruin that.

Illegal immigration well done? Its been historically low for years. And what, by the way, has he done re: immigration, other than arrest families, detain or lose kids, and in 2 cases - have kids die under his watch.

Please check the facts before spouting shallow Rep talking points.

What about the dozens of scandals? He gets a pass on all of those? If you engage with people on here about those scandals, perhaps we can dive a little deeper into your points.

And btw - wtf is Trump, if not an "elite"? Ffs

Obama doubled the national debt. So basically he borrowed all that growth. All your other little talking points are just virtue signaling. If the establishment is so upset with Trump as they clearly are like no president before, clearly the swamp is being drained. The mueller investigation is a hoax. The strozk texts prove that the feds are corrupt. Trump is not a member of the elite. The constant attacks by the media and the celebs and the feds prove that. Obama was so fake compared to Trump. If you couldn’t see through his phony smile you’d want your head examined. But that’s just my opinion.

Professor Moriarty

pearcider wrote: »

Unemployment at historic lows. Economy booming. Gas at 2 dollars a gallon. Illegal immigration way down. That’s pretty much all the average person cares about. Not whatever minor issue the virtue signaling millionaire elites in California or Washington say. The average person doesn’t listen to these phonies.

No. The average person cares about stuff like morality, fairness, climate change etc. Below average people don't understand these concepts.

everlast75

pearcider wrote: »

Obama doubled the national debt. So basically he borrowed all that growth. All your other little talking points are just virtue signaling. If the establishment is so upset with Trump as they clearly are like no president before, clearly the swamp is being drained. The mueller investigation is a hoax. The strozk texts prove that the feds are corrupt. Trump is not a member of the elite. The constant attacks by the media and the celebs and the feds prove that. Obama was so fake compared to Trump. If you couldn’t see through his phony smile you’d want your head examined. But that’s just my opinion.

Elites
Virtue signalling
Swamp
Hoax
Strozk texts
Media attacks

Sure why not throw in Hillary, servers, FISA warrants, Obama being a Muslim, Pizzagate and Qanon for the full house?

And I need my head examined.....

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

Obama doubled the national debt. So basically he borrowed all that growth. All your other little talking points are just virtue signaling. If the establishment is so upset with Trump as they clearly are like no president before, clearly the swamp is being drained. The mueller investigation is a hoax. The strozk texts prove that the feds are corrupt. Trump is not a member of the elite. The constant attacks by the media and the celebs and the feds prove that. Obama was so fake compared to Trump. If you couldn’t see through his phony smile you’d want your head examined. But that’s just my opinion.

A billionaire businessman who was literally born into wealth and owns golf courses, hotels and sundry real estate around the world is not an elite? How did he get you to believe this hogwash?

relax carry on

It's rare these days to see a supporter of Trump pop up and come out with the same worn out lines. Welcome to the discussion. Any chance you could comment on the thousands of verifiable lies spouted by Trump, the firings/resignations or the the multiple scandles this car crash of a Presidency is involved in.

Also saying virtue signalling to everything you don't agree with or can't one liner away doesn't really help whatever points you are trying to make.

Leroy42

pearcider wrote: »

Obama doubled the national debt. So basically he borrowed all that growth.

Do you know why Obama was forced to borrow all that moneyy? Because the previous GOP POTUS had basically ridden the country off a cliff. So Obama saved the country from implosion. Returned the country to growth and laid the basis for the sustained improvements that trump is now taking credit for.

pearcider wrote: »

All your other little talking points are just virtue signaling.

So you have no contra to the arguments, they are just wrong because something something.

pearcider wrote: »

If the establishment is so upset with Trump as they clearly are like no president before, clearly the swamp is being drained.

What establishment? The GOP, the courts, democracy? What was wrong with the 'swamp' and what has Trump done to remedy these issues?

pearcider wrote: »

The mueller investigation is a hoax.

In what way? It has already got a number of people for crimes, surely that is a good thing, you know draining the swamp and all that. I mean, Manafort is the very definition of swamp, selling to the highest bidder. You must love the investigation. Mueller nailed Cohen, a corrupt lawyer using his political ties to enrich himself. Again, ins't that the swamp you seem to want drained. I cannot understand why any 'Drain the Swamp' supporter could have anything against the Mueller investigation. There should be a Mueller type investigation for all POTUS, if for nothing else than to make them think twice before acting illegally.

pearcider wrote: »

The strozk texts prove that the feds are corrupt.

Was Strozk running the FBI? Was he in charge of appointing Mueller? How does a few agents prove anything? Based on that logic, we know Trump Jr meet with Russians so if it right to declare that the whole Trump Organisation colluded with Russia, or does it only work one way?

pearcider wrote: »

Trump is not a member of the elite.

What? The man is friends with the Clintons. Has been part of the New York high society for years.
Thomas Barack
The grandson of Lebanese Christian immigrants, Barrack built a fortune from nothing and now manages $60 billion in assets with Colony Capital fund, much of it for Arab investors.
HOWARD LORBER
RICHARD LEFRAK - the president asked his longtime buddy to chair his infrastructure operation, along with Steve Roth
CHRISTOPHER RUDDY - Before Breitbart, before Bannon, there was Newsmax and Christopher Ruddy. Newsmax leaned to the right before it was even slightly cool. Ruddy's Newsmax Media always gave Trump a favorable forum. Based in West Palm Beach, Newsmax is close by Mar-a-Lago, where Ruddy became a frequent guest. Still is.

If you don't think that Trump is both Elite and well connected with the elite then I suggest you do a bit of reading.

pearcider wrote: »

The constant attacks by the media and the celebs and the feds prove that.

What type of attacks? Do you think that Trump has not had any issues as POTUS? That he didn't claim that racists are nice people too? That he welcomed his supporters attacking protesters and that he would pay their legal fees? That he lied about Stormy Daniels affair and tried to cover up the payments (using a corrupt lawyer)? That is is perfectly reasonable for him to refuse to provide his tax returns whilst at the same time giving massive tax breaks? That his tax cut has not created the surge in growth required to offset the massive tax giveaways to the elites?

pearcider wrote: »

Obama was so fake compared to Trump. If you couldn’t see through his phony smile you’d want your head examined. But that’s just my opinion.

So Obama was fake because you don't believe his smile was always genuine? Thats it? Nothing about his secret affairs? His refusal to detail his business interests? Just you think his smile was fake?

eagle eye

I'm a big fan of Barack Obama as a person. I think he will do great things in the future.
I wanted him to be POTUS.
I was disappointed by his performance as POTUS.
That last post about him is so biased and untrue. He did a poor job but it's wasn't all his fault, Don't blame his predecessors, blame the people that were there at the time. Also he was, because he let himself be, taken advantage of by Merkel and the EU because he is a nice guy.
Clearly written by an ardent Democrat that post is rubbish.
I'm pro-Democrat and anti-Republican but no point spoofing.

everlast75

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Barack Obama as a person. I think he will do great things in the future.
I wanted him to be POTUS.
I was disappointed by his performance as POTUS.
That last post about him is so biased and untrue. He did a poor job but it's wasn't all his fault, Don't blame his predecessors, blame the people that were there at the time. Also he was, because he let himself be, taken advantage of by Merkel and the EU because he is a nice guy.
Clearly written by an ardent Democrat that post is rubbish.
I'm pro-Democrat and anti-Republican but no point spoofing.

Respectfully disagree.

From the very first day, the Reps made it their mission to fight him on every single issue.

No bi-partisan cooperation.

Very hard to get anything done with that kind of blind objection.

Despite that, he turned the economy around, passed ACC and won 2 terms.

He was intelligent, articulate, empathetic, charismatic, family man and an honourable guy. Basically, the exact opposite of the current POTUS.

Christy42

Would have figured they would have cut the national debt from their talking points given how badly Trump has done in that regard.

At least Obama needed to spur growth. Trump had growth. He just donated more money to rich people.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

A billionaire businessman who was literally born into wealth and owns golf courses, hotels and sundry real estate around the world is not an elite? How did he get you to believe this hogwash?

Sorry he’s not a member of the globalist elite who attend Davos etc that preach to the middle class in the west about how horrible and polluting they are and why this they have to shoulder all the tax burden of bailing out the banks and corporations every few years while they hide their own wealth off shore. The same elites who sold out the American and European worker to communist China and Vietnam and use the biggest con ever called globalisation to undercut our wages. The same elites who constantly push for war with nuclear armed Russia. The elites that own most of the media in the west and vilify Trump on a daily basis. The same elites who have destroyed the jewel of western civilization our universities by attacking free speech in them and filling them with rich foreign students who lower standards while raising fees on their own citizens. The same elites who constantly push for expanding the welfare state (without paying for it) and the states influence. The nanny staters and the PC brigade. The elites who want open borders and illegal immigration so they can further depress wages. The same elites that fill our schools and hospitals with uneducated third world immigrants who have no right to be here but they keep their kids in private schools and pay for private hospitals. Hypocrites. The elites that both Clinton and Bush and Obama were slaves to. Trump has gone to war with them and I just hope he keeps going.

Tell me how

pearcider wrote: »

Sorry he’s not a member of the globalist elite who attend Davos etc that preach to the middle class in the west about how horrible and polluting they are and why this they have to shoulder all the tax burden of bailing out the banks and corporations every few years while they hide their own wealth off shore. The same elites who sold out the American and European worker to communist China and Vietnam and use the biggest con ever called globalisation to undercut our wages. The same elites who constantly push for war with nuclear armed Russia. The elites that own most of the media in the west and vilify Trump on a daily basis. The same elites who have destroyed the jewel of western civilization our universities by attacking free speech in them and filling them with rich foreign students who lower standards while raising fees on their own citizens. The same elites who constantly push for expanding the welfare state (without paying for it) and the states influence. The nanny staters and the PC brigade. The elites who want open borders and illegal immigration so they can further depress wages. The same elites that fill our schools and hospitals with uneducated third world immigrants who have no right to be here but they keep their kids in private schools and pay for private hospitals. Hypocrites. The elites that both Clinton and Bush and Obama were slaves to. Trump has gone to war with them and I just hope he keeps going.

Ok, I'll do two and let others do more.

First bolded piece. One of the leading owners of the media is Rupert Murdoch whose company is flying the flag high for President Trump.

Second bolded piece. Trump himself had a "University". He settled 3 lawsuits associated with it after he became elected President and it has been investigated for illegal activity.

GTFOOH with such weak arguments.

eagle eye

everlast75 wrote: »

Respectfully disagree.

From the very first day, the Reps made it their mission to fight him on every single issue.

No bi-partisan cooperation.

Very hard to get anything done with that kind of blind objection.

Despite that, he turned the economy around, passed ACC and won 2 terms.

He was intelligent, articulate, empathetic, charismatic, family man and an honourable guy. Basically, the exact opposite of the current POTUS.

I read your post and I'm wondering what you are disagreeing with me about. It appears only one thing is in contention between our two posts. He didn't turn the economy around.

How could he do that without bi-partisan co-operation?

I said blame the people that were in office at the time he was and you agree.

I'm in full agreement with the last two lines of your post. I think I made that quite clear in my post by just saying how much of a fan of the man I am.

The previous post to mine was blaming previous potus for his poor showing in office.

I don't think he did a good job as potus. Obviously having the republicans in control of the house was the big issue. The other issue is that he is just too nice of a man and not willing to sink to the levels of those normally in power.

dinorebel

pearcider wrote: »

Sorry he’s not a member of the globalist elite who attend Davos etc that preach to the middle class in the west about how horrible and polluting they are and why this they have to shoulder all the tax burden of bailing out the banks and corporations every few years while they hide their own wealth off shore. The same elites who sold out the American and European worker to communist China and Vietnam and use the biggest con ever called globalisation to undercut our wages. The same elites who constantly push for war with nuclear armed Russia. The elites that own most of the media in the west and vilify Trump on a daily basis. The same elites who have destroyed the jewel of western civilization our universities by attacking free speech in them and filling them with rich foreign students who lower standards while raising fees on their own citizens. The same elites who constantly push for expanding the welfare state (without paying for it) and the states influence. The nanny staters and the PC brigade. The elites who want open borders and illegal immigration so they can further depress wages. The same elites that fill our schools and hospitals with uneducated third world immigrants who have no right to be here but they keep their kids in private schools and pay for private hospitals. Hypocrites. The elites that both Clinton and Bush and Obama were slaves to. Trump has gone to war with them and I just hope he keeps going.

You do know where MAGA hats are made I assume?

Leroy42

pearcider wrote: »

Sorry he’s not a member of the globalist elite who attend Davos etc that preach to the middle class in the west about how horrible and polluting they are and why this they have to shoulder all the tax burden of bailing out the banks and corporations every few years while they hide their own wealth off shore. The same elites who sold out the American and European worker to communist China and Vietnam and use that to undercut our wages. The same elites who constantly push for war with nuclear armed Russia. The elites that own most of the media in the west and vilify Trump on a daily basis. The same elites who have destroyed the jewel of western civilization our universities by attacking free speech in them and filling them with rich foreign students who lower standards while raising fees on their own citizens. The same elites who constantly push for expanding the welfare state (without paying for it) and the states influence. The nanny staters and the PC brigade. The elites who want open borders and illegal immigration so they can further depress wages. The elites that both Clinton and Bush and Obama were slaves to. Trump has gone to war with them and I just hope he keeps going.

Ah right, so he is an elite, just a different type of elite.

Remind me where Trump sourced the steel for his buildings? Or where his clothing range was made (ties etc). Or where Ivanka's clothing line was manufactured?

And talk about lowering standards in third level. Trump had to settle a case for running a fake university! You simply couldn't make it up and yet you claim that he is fighting the good fight for the little people!

You want to know which company looked for an increase in foreign worker permits recently? Mar-A-Lago. So rather than increase wages to locals (since he increased the membership fees on the back of him being POTUS) they simply bussed in more Mexicans.

The Welfare state. Trump has had to provide $12bn of welfare to farmers because of his ill-judged and badly executed trade war with China.

The bank and corporations have had their regulations dropped, their Tax rate slashed. He has brought in no new employee safeguards. When the next crash comes, what has Trump done, in this war he is waging, to protect the tax payer from a repeat of 2008?

Inquitus

dinorebel wrote: »

You do know where MAGA hats are made I assume?

I have one I bought in his MAGA shop at Trump Tower NY in the Jan after the election, the answer is of course CHINA!