Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

listermint

jjpep wrote: »

You asked was the idea of fake media ever challenged. My response/argument was that there was always been a bias to media outlets but the charge by Trump (and his supporters) of fake media was 100% hyperbole and 0% nuance. I've provided links showing how the same stories were reported in different ways by different news organisations.

What is your position?

You know my position i outlined it.

You have opinion pieces dressed up as news, infact you fell for it in your opening post.

The fact you didnt even see that was perplexing based solely on your points alone.

jjpep

listermint wrote: »

You know my position i outlined it.

You have opinion pieces dressed up as news, infact you fell for it in your opening post.

The fact you didnt even see that was perplexing based solely on your points alone.

In that case I picked a bad example then - although in my defense this was what was used in our textbook back in school. But, again, I would argue that the line between is blurred. In the examples given the same storys are presented in such a way that an opinion is given in the presentation of the facts. I would argee there is a huge element of confirmation bias, and that indeed is the point. The news outlet is targeting that demographic.

The phrase fake news then is a total exaggeration, but it is an exaggeration of a real thing. It may be of the few things that trump constantly repeats that actually has a rooting, albeit it contorted almost beyond recognition, in reality.

everlast75

I think that depending on clicks, one person or group controlling a lot of the media and the simultaneous decline of printed media have contributed greatly to the decline of quality reporting.

You can go verify facts via different reputable sources yourself if you want to.

The problem is most don't.

Tell me how

everlast75 wrote: »

I think that depending on clicks, one person or group controlling a lot of the media and the simultaneous decline of printed media have contributed greatly to the decline of quality reporting.

You can go verify facts via different reputable sources yourself if you want to.

The problem is most don't.

There is a vicious circle here, in which the consumer (you and me) play a significant part.

Research by an advertising company (Outbrain) found that negative headlines are much more successful in attracting attention from readers than positive.

Study

• Headlines containing positive superlatives (“always” or “best”) performed 29 percent WORSE than headlines with negative superlatives.
• Headlines containing negative superlatives (“never” or “worst”) performed 30 percent BETTER than headlines with positive superlatives.
• Outbrain’s study concludes, “The average click-through rate on headlines with negative superlatives was a staggering 63 percent higher than that of their positive counterparts.”
• Outbrain also states, “These results were replicated in a subsequent headline study that included data from the months of August – September 2012.”

This article is from 2014. what we have seen happen since then is the increase of micro-targetting (Cambridge Analytica) and echo-chambers (on all sides) so you really have to be dedicated to try to find out just what exactly the truth is.

Igotadose

jjpep wrote: »

The phrase fake news then is a total exaggeration, but it is an exaggeration of a real thing. It may be of the few things that trump constantly repeats that actually has a rooting, albeit it contorted almost beyond recognition, in reality.

When Trump says it, it means: "I disagree with that, and I'm lying." Just ignore it, and belittle those that use it in ordinary conversation by pointing that out. It's an aggressive, hostile phrase, like 'witch hunt' and so on. Wants to show he's a tough guy despite enormous evidence to the contrary (all alone at the WH, oooh)


Just Trump engaging in the endless deflection he tries to use to hide his worst excesses from the public. The good thing is, he's not getting away with it as much, the legal establishment in the US is not so easily deflected.

MadYaker

Lots of talk of the wall these days but how is it that all these proponents of the wall never seem bothered about addressing the reason that so many illegal immigrants flock to America in the first place? It's because American businesses are allowed to hire hundreds of thousands of them due to lax enforcement of immigration and employment laws throughout the country. It seems to me a major crack down on these practices would go a long way to solving the problem and would probably be a lot cheaper than a 20 billion dollar wall that's going to take god knows how long to get built if it even gets funded in the first place.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

This is just nonsense from start to finish. And hugely contradictory. The same people who push for action against climate change are pushing for war with Russia? And "rich foreign students lowering standards while raising fees"? How is that supposed to work? The opposite is actually true. Foreign students help keep fees low by subsidising the local students.

And then there's the peach about the wealthy not paying for the welfare state. Well d'uh that's exactly what Trump is doing with his tax cuts for the rich. In fact the above could be read as a diatribe against Trump, bar the climate change one. Because Trump doesn't know the difference between climate and weather.

It’s only nonsense for people who can’t see the wood for the trees. These liberals have sold out the west to communist dictatorships like China. They want to drown our universities in Marxist ideology and drown our hospitals and schools with illegal Immigrants. Traitors all. Trump has a problem with the climate change champagne socialists because the deal just represents more costs for the average citizen and weakens our ability to compete with China and other cheating regimes. They won’t obey by any climate change laws just like they cheat on trade and steal western tech. You can’t even trust their statistics.

Trump recognizes the real enemy to the west and it is the cancerous liberal fifth column that lives in Washington typified by creeps like Strzok “we won’t let him win” these are the people you are cheer leading for.

prawnsambo

MadYaker wrote: »

Lots of talk of the wall these days but how is it that all these proponents of the wall never seem bothered about addressing the reason that so many illegal immigrants flock to America in the first place? It's because American businesses are allowed to hire hundreds of thousands of them due to lax enforcement of immigration and employment laws throughout the country. It seems to me a major crack down on these practices would go a long way to solving the problem and would probably be a lot cheaper than a 20 billion dollar wall that's going to take god knows how long to get built if it even gets funded in the first place.

This. I had a similar conversation with a Trump supporter before the election and said that if they wanted to stop illegal immigration, they just had to stop the employers from hiring them. His view was that this was too onerous on businesses. The reality is that people don't want to pay the price that hiring locally would add to the cost of produce.

Leroy42

Is "We won't let him win" better or worse than "Lock her up"?

Are you going to post any actual evidence of any of this, or just continue to copy and paste what someone else has told you?

And you have still totally failed to cite anything in the way of evidence that Trump is the person that is going to fix these problems that you seem so convinced of. He is in the top job two years, what has he done to fix these dangers facing the west?

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

It’s only nonsense for people who can’t see the wood for the trees. These liberals have sold out the west to communist dictatorships like China. They want to drown our universities in Marxist ideology and drown our hospitals and schools with illegal Immigrants. Traitors all. Trump has a problem with the climate change champagne socialists because the deal just represents more costs for the average citizen and weakens our ability to compete with China and other cheating regimes. They won’t obey by any climate change laws just like they cheat on trade and steal western tech. You can’t even trust their statistics.

Trump recognizes the real enemy to the west and it is the cancerous liberal fifth column that lives in Washington typified by creeps like Strzok “we won’t let him win” these are the people you are cheer leading for.

This isn't somewhere to paste your manifesto. Respond with actual facts to the posts you quote or just expect to be posting to a vacuum.

Itssoeasy

pearcider wrote: »

It’s only nonsense for people who can’t see the wood for the trees. These liberals have sold out the west to communist dictatorships like China. They want to drown our universities in Marxist ideology and drown our hospitals and schools with illegal Immigrants. Traitors all. Trump has a problem with the climate change champagne socialists because the deal just represents more costs for the average citizen and weakens our ability to compete with China and other cheating regimes. They won’t obey by any climate change laws just like they cheat on trade and steal western tech. You can’t even trust their statistics.

Trump recognizes the real enemy to the west and it is the cancerous liberal fifth column that lives in Washington typified by creeps like Strzok “we won’t let him win” these are the people you are cheer leading for.

Well this a post and a half and lots of talking points from Trump allies in there.

MadYaker

I dunno how to respond to his posts it's all hyperbole and nothing of substance.

In one post he says we should reserve judgement on the mueller investigation and then in another post he says it's a phony investigation being controlled by the democrats. Also Trump is somehow not a member of the elite? The guy owns golf courses all over the world and flys around in an airliner with his name on the side of it. How much more elite can you get unless you're a middle eastern oil baron.

rossie1977

Trump is totally detached from reality right now. He claims federal workers are willing to work for nothing over the holidays because they want $5 billion for border wall. Those who are considered key are being forced to come in and work (even if they had plans or booked holidays) and not get paid on top of it.

2 weeks ago Trump on live TV said he would take full responsibility if a shutdown happened. Now he is blaming the Dems for shutdown.. amazing

pearcider

https://youtu.be/WXHHCuz_COQ

The Mueller probe is going nowhere. He will be gone long before Trump. I can’t wait to see the wall either. You can be sure Donald will get it done as his re election hinges on it.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

This isn't somewhere to paste your manifesto. Respond with actual facts to the posts you quote or just expect to be posting to a vacuum.

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

Leroy42

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

People are clearly listening to your POV, even going as far as asking you to give further explanation. If they were ignoring you they wouldn't bother.

It is not our fault that you have nothing but throwaway lines to add.

So I'll ask again. What has Trump done in his two years in the role that is fixing the issues that you are so concerned with and feel that Trump is the only person able to remedy them, even at the expense of all the mistakes he has done and lies he has told.

Should be simple enough really.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

As if your point of view was some sort of bulwark against your bogeyman du jour. But Trump is doing his absolute best to weaken his allies for his friends in China and Russia. How does that work?

Tell me how

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

You seem to be talking nonsense.
Why don't you rebut some of the arguments that people are using against your Fox news headline statements and then maybe people will tolerate your point of view.

looksee

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

Trump would like nothing better than to have a police state in the US - at least for people with skin in any shade of brown.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

https://youtu.be/WXHHCuz_COQ

The Mueller probe is going nowhere. He will be gone long before Trump. I can’t wait to see the wall either. You can be sure Donald will get it done as his re election hinges on it.

I can't wait to see the wall either. It will be a continuing monument to an idiot who thinks a wall solves a problem that was created inside his own country. And by people like himself.

DrumSteve

pearcider wrote: »

Clearly you don’t want to hear my point of view. That’s fine. We’ll see how you like it living under a communist police state such as China.

Why don't you want to live there? They have a wall, don't they?

frag420

DrumSteve wrote: »

Why don't you want to live there? They have a wall, don't they?

Well played!

everlast75

Trump says that if he doesn't get his wall, he will shut down the border for security reasons.

If that solves the problem, why does he need a wall?

pearcider

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump says that if he doesn't get his wall, he will shut down the border for security reasons.

If that solves the problem, why does he need a wall?

Because the US is being swamped with illegals and drugs. Only going to get worse as the banana republics in th Southern Hemisphere continue to export their problems caused by corruption and bad government. The wall will work.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

As if your point of view was some sort of bulwark against your bogeyman du jour. But Trump is doing his absolute best to weaken his allies for his friends in China and Russia. How does that work?

Trump just wants the wealthy western nations that enjoy expensive protection by the US military to pay their share like they agreed to.

Of course this simple fact eludes Obama supporters like you. Obama who absolutely gutted the military under his watch.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

I can't wait to see the wall either. It will be a continuing monument to an idiot who thinks a wall solves a problem that was created inside his own country. And by people like himself.

This makes no sense. Millions are pouring across the Mexico border because their third world countries are corrupt and falling apart. Only a true blue could blame Trump for years of misgovernance by countries like Venezuela and Nicaragua. People vote with their feet. Which is why they leave failed states and try to enter successful ones.

DrumSteve

pearcider wrote: »

Because the US is being swamped with illegals and drugs. Only going to get worse as the banana republics in th Southern Hemisphere continue to export their problems caused by corruption and bad government. The wall will work.

Genuine question...what do you think is one of the root causes of this?

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

This makes no sense. Millions are pouring across the Mexico border because their third world countries are corrupt and falling apart. Only a true blue could blame Trump for years of misgovernance by countries like Venezuela and Nicaragua. People vote with their feet. Which is why they leave failed states and try to enter successful ones.

You're just proving my point. Do you want to go back through US continuously meddling in South American politics or just limit ourselves to the continual turning a blind eye to employers taking on those who cross the border illegally, so that they can get cheap labour and increase their profits? Because those are the things that have created the situation you're getting yourself all angsty and snowflakey about. You reap what you sow and all that.

aloyisious

pearcider wrote: »

This makes no sense. Millions are pouring across the Mexico border because their third world countries are corrupt and falling apart. Only a true blue could blame Trump for years of misgovernance by countries like Venezuela and Nicaragua. People vote with their feet. Which is why they leave failed states and try to enter successful ones.

Really, millions pouring across the Mexico border?

Really, the true blue blaming Trump for years of misgovernment by counties like Venezuela and Nicarauga?

What are the sources for your quotes?

pearcider

DrumSteve wrote: »

Genuine question...what do you think is one of the root causes of this?

Let me guess of course it’s all Uncle Sams fault. Typical left wing thinking. It could never be the fault of the country itself. Of course it’s all a conspiracy by the US. These responses in here confirm what I always knew this thread is just one anti American love in by communist sympathisers.

Even though the west literally owes the USA everything for facing down both Facism and Communism at huge cost to itself. I’m sure your Chinese overlords will be so much more benevolent. Be careful what you wish for.