Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

pearcider

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

So Trump?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/2018/12/06/president-trump-uses-undocumented-immigrant-labor-is-anyone-surprised/

Will you reply to above or switch track again?

Don’t hate the player hate the game. He is trying to change things by building the wall. Of course you even have to visit the States to see it is teeming with millions of illegals many with jobs. It does not mean that it should continue to be so. These migration trends will become more pronounced as over population bites in the coming decades. Better to build the wall now.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

Your definition (which seems to be more a hate list than a definition) in no way applies to Louise Mensch. A brexiter who was a Tory MP and is a GOP supporter.



Communists are the same as fascists and capitalists. That's bloody hilarious.

Not as hilarious as you think. The big capitalists supported both sides in Spanish civil war and in ww2. Business is business.

I don’t rate Mensch nor do I know her. But her wiki says she was a member of the Labour Party so automatically dubious to me. Also she’s married to a prominent musician so straight away she’s in globalist circles. Read between the lines.

pearcider

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

That is the aim, it's called Maskirovka

https://globalnews.ca/news/4260938/russia-strategy-maskirovka-military-politics-putin/

Haha listen pal I don’t rate Russia at all. A tiny oil dependent economy. A shrinking population. A culture and society completely destroyed by the globalists in their hell on earth experiment with communism. However they do have a lot of nukes. Which is why I found Hillary Clinton’s antagonism towards them most disturbing.

pearcider

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Yet as clearly illustrated your player is cut from same cloth as your projection and plays this game of yours.

How will a wall prevent your hypocrite in chief from continuing to hire illegal labor in his own business (a business he didn't divest from)

The wall will stop the flow of illegals which will get worse at this century goes on. It worked for the communists in east Germany (although they were trying to keep people in) and it worked for Israel.

Igotadose

pearcider wrote: »

The wall will stop the flow of illegals which will get worse at this century goes on. It worked for the communists in east Germany (although they were trying to keep people in) and it worked for Israel.

How? They arrive via airplane. And, the East Germans shot people. You o.k. with that?

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

Not as hilarious as you think. The big capitalists supported both sides in Spanish civil war and in ww2. Business is business.

I don’t rate Mensch nor do I know her. But her wiki says she was a member of the Labour Party so automatically dubious to me. Also she’s married to a prominent musician so straight away she’s in globalist circles. Read between the lines.

Well the wiki is wrong since she was a Tory MP. And would you sit down and have a listen to yourself. Seriously? If that's your viewpoint, I'm afraid you're in real trouble, the dreaded globalists are everywhere. You must find it difficult to sleep at night.

pearcider

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

So Trump should follow example of your beloved communists? You don't see any contradictions and hypocrisy in your posts??

Trump is keeping non citizens out. The commies were trying to keep their own citizens in. Big difference.

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well the wiki is wrong since she was a Tory MP. And would you sit down and have a listen to yourself. Seriously? If that's your viewpoint, I'm afraid you're in real trouble, the dreaded globalists are everywhere. You must find it difficult to sleep at night.

It says she was a member before she joined the Tories. So suspect in my eyes. Probably a communist sympathiser with a mission to fragment the Tory party. I sleep like a baby but what’s your point. Play the ball not the man.

pearcider

The more I read about mensch the more convinced I am that she is a globalist nut case. She claimed the 7/7 bombings had nothing to do with Islam!! Wtf. Another key attribute of the globalist is their willingness to bend over backwards to appease Islamic terror against the west.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

It says she was a member before she joined the Tories. So suspect in my eyes. Probably a communist sympathiser with a mission to fragment the Tory party. I sleep like a baby but what’s your point. Play the ball not the man.

My point is you see enemies everywhere. That's often referred to as paranoia. I'm just going by what you post. If you're giving the wrong impression, perhaps you need to modify what you write. Nothing personal, they're your words.

prawnsambo

pearcider wrote: »

The more I read about mensch the more convinced I am that she is a globalist nut case. She claimed the 7/7 bombings had nothing to do with Islam!! Wtf. Another key attribute of the globalist is their willingness to bend over backwards to appease Islamic terror against the west.

Since everything 'not Trump' is a 'globalist' in your eyes, I'm inclined to the view that it's not a bad thing. You're not making a very good case here.

everlast75

Any time the wall is mentioned, can we just repeat these facts?

https://twitter.com/stengel/status/1078663016063881216?s=19

pearcider

prawnsambo wrote: »

My point is you see enemies everywhere. That's often referred to as paranoia. I'm just going by what you post. If you're giving the wrong impression, perhaps you need to modify what you write. Nothing personal, they're your words.

You brought Mensch up as some sort of anti globalist traditonal conservative type. She’s not.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Several posts deleted. Post constructively please and cease the childish bickering.

Eric Cartman

everlast75 wrote: »

Any time the wall is mentioned, can we just repeat these facts?

https://twitter.com/stengel/status/1078663016063881216?s=19

that third one is a myth though, when you exclude legal immigrants the illegal immigrants commit disproportionately more crime especially violent crime and theft. Even including legal migrants it just about balances to population percentage as a lot of legal migration to the US is by educated people who want to work. That even excludes the idea that illegally being in a country is a crime in itself.

https://cis.org/Camarota/NonCitizens-Committed-Disproportionate-Share-Federal-Crimes-201116

Igotadose

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that third one is a myth though, when you exclude legal immigrants the illegal immigrants commit disproportionately more crime especially violent crime and theft. Even including legal migrants it just about balances to population percentage as a lot of legal migration to the US is by educated people who want to work. That even excludes the idea that illegally being in a country is a crime in itself.

https://cis.org/Camarota/NonCitizens-Committed-Disproportionate-Share-Federal-Crimes-201116

Ahh.cis.org. A hate group per splc
https://www.politifact.com/florida/article/2017/mar/22/center-immigration-studies-hate-group-southern-pov/

Eric Cartman

Igotadose wrote: »

Ahh.cis.org. A hate group per splc
https://www.politifact.com/florida/article/2017/mar/22/center-immigration-studies-hate-group-southern-pov/

and the splc is defined as a hate group by anyone right of centre, two groups with an agenda , who would have guessed, debunk the data for me so.

Itssoeasy

So it seems that Trump is "willing to negotiate on the border wall" according to his press secretary. So has the fact he took a stand and partially shutdown the government over the wall and has done so for a week or so enough to calm the base down ?

Sand

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and the splc is defined as a hate group by anyone right of centre, two groups with an agenda , who would have guessed, debunk the data for me so.

You don't have to debunk the data if you debunk the group presenting the data. Otherwise why go to the bother of debunking the group?

Eric Cartman

Sand wrote: »

You don't have to debunk the data if you debunk the group presenting the data. Otherwise why go to the bother of debunking the group?

well data is data, in theory it should be sound , what happens is that bodies like the splc just invalidate anyone who presents immigration or crime data in a way that isnt friendly to them. Just taking blind what they say is a surefire way to bias results that are acceptable in a debate. They'll call anyone against their agenda a 'hate group' so theyre not a valid metric anyway.

prawnsambo

Sand wrote: »

You don't have to debunk the data if you debunk the group presenting the data. Otherwise why go to the bother of debunking the group?

Well that's the way I'd do it. Fool me once etc. Life's too short to be spending time looking to see if it's crap that keeps coming from the same sewer.

WinnyThePoo

Cis misuse data for their agenda. Funnily enough trump cited them.

Eric Cartman

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Cis misuse data for their agenda. Funnily enough trump cited them.

and the SPLC misuse data for their agenda, as does cnn, as does everyone. But in this incident can anyone point out exactly where they are factually incorrect ?

relax carry on

Jesus, I hadn't time to read the thread all day until now. Can I have those 25 minutes back please?

Haven't we learned by now that those who are full on Trumpists will not be turned by truth, reason or logic at this stage. For better or worse they have hitched their wagon of beliefs to Trumps brand of snakeoil and as the man himself said he could "stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody" and not "lose any voters."

The odd few posters who present some sort of reasoned argument aren't part of his core support, they just happen to share some of his conservative social and economic; racist or misogynistic aims and beliefs. A debate or sorts can exist there but not with someone who just regurgitates slogans and sound bites.

mcmoustache

Is there a non-dodgy source for this claim about high criminality with illegal immigrants? It sounds like it could be a legitimate claim but when the source is a bit scetchy, i have to wonder if it's bullshìt.

So if this claim is in fact true, it should be possible to verify it without dodgy sources.

Eric Cartman

mcmoustache wrote: »

Is there a non-dodgy source for this claim about high criminality with illegal immigrants? It sounds like it could be a legitimate claim but when the source is a bit scetchy, i have to wonder if it's bullshìt.

So if this claim is in fact true, it should be possible to verify it without dodgy sources.

fair, if somebody wants to drill into the hard data there are links to the USSC government source that it was taken from, so they present raw data without bias. Heres a table that just puts it together https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2018-01/USSC%20Data%20on%20Federal%20Convictions-1%2810%29.pdf which while somebody mightent like the outcome, if somebody can prove falsification im all ears. Seems pretty robust to me.

prawnsambo

I'd be a bit iffy about the fact that these are federal crimes only. Afaik, federal crimes are committed in only certain very specific ways. I'd like to see comparative state data to see if those figures stack up or is it peculiar to federal crimes because they are immigrants?

Eric Cartman

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'd be a bit iffy about the fact that these are federal crimes only. Afaik, federal crimes are committed in only certain very specific ways. I'd like to see comparative state data to see if those figures stack up or is it peculiar to federal crimes because they are immigrants?

the state level data may not be available or may be presented in too many different ways to correlate. Federal crimes are in the US generally on the more serious end. Like im sure we could find a load of data that says mexican teenagers are a disproportionately higher problem spray painting walls in california and that its not an issue at all in ohio but thats irrelevant to any discussion. Its the murders, thefts of value enough to be a federal crime etc... that im interested in.

prawnsambo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the state level data may not be available or may be presented in too many different ways to correlate. Federal crimes are in the US generally on the more serious end. Like im sure we could find a load of data that says mexican teenagers are a disproportionately higher problem spray painting walls in california and that its not an issue at all in ohio but thats irrelevant to any discussion. Its the murders, thefts of value enough to be a federal crime etc... that im interested in.

The reason I ask is the numbers are very small for a country of 260 million people. The biggest number is for immigration and drug offences. Murder at 800, robbery under 5000 etc.

Eric Cartman

prawnsambo wrote: »

The reason I ask is the numbers are very small for a country of 260 million people. The biggest number is for immigration and drug offences. Murder at 800, robbery under 5000 etc.

i get you, ill start digging and see is there any state level data to it , I know murder is definitely seperated state and federally depending on severity, inter state legislation or who the victim was, e.g most of that data could represent the death of police officers, federal agents etc... where a murder of say 2-3 people could be handled at a state level and not on those stats.