Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Wanderer78

amandstu wrote: »

When partisanship is the problem a temporary cure can be for a common external threat to become apparent as in a war.

I am in favour/opinion of the fight to protect the environment as being such a trigger.

I feel it is such a natural impulse that most people** will eventually get in line and coalesce around its imperatives.

The new revolution is just around the corner (that or a slow or rapid demise-which may sadly already have begun)

** transcending political borders like a second wave of the hated/feared globalization

are we actually capable of solving this one, we havent been exactly doing a great job of it thus far?

everlast75

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are we actually capable of solving this one, we havent been exactly doing a great job of it thus far?

While big business has direct access to politicians with substantial contributions and therefore control the agenda, we are screwed. Just look at the NRA and the Republicans.

I like Warren's idea of not accepting any super pac money for her run to be Democratic Nominee and her urging others to do the same.

Wanderer78

everlast75 wrote: »

While big business has direct access to politicians with substantial contributions and therefore control the agenda, we are screwed. Just look at the NRA and the Republicans.

I like Warren's idea of not accepting any super pac money for her run to be Democratic Nominee and her urging others to do the same.

theres a lot of things need to be addressed before we start getting true change, you d have to wonder at times, will this occur

pixelburp

The fight to save the environment hits an immediate, and potentially unscalable wall, by the number of American politicians financed by those industries not particularly predisposed to environmental responsibility (fossil fuels, plastics, etc), or who simply operate within a moribund community formerly associated with heavy industry. And if Trump / Brexit is proving anything, it's that the empty fantasy of a return to nostalgic power is a heady cocktail swallowed by a great many unwilling to accept their days are past: the UK is not a world power anymore, and coal jobs are not returning to Kentucky et al, yet politicians can promise these phantoms, and pass the buck with equal efficacy. Thus anything or anyone standing in the way to a return to that spent time is an enemy, opposition, a dirty 'librul' to distract from more pressing agendas.

To be fair, you do see initiatives to improve things, though they tend to emanate from the coastal states, which of course immediately mutates into a liberals vs. conservatives debate; you get farcical situations such as when California banned plastic straws, Republicans (well, GOP leaning randomers) started posing with plastic straws on social media with crude "you can't take my straws of freedom" nonsense messages of 'defiance'. When even the smallest, simplest gesture towards environmentalism becomes a hill some will die on, progress will be slow and painful.

everlast75

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theres a lot of things need to be addressed before we start getting true change, you d have to wonder at times, will this occur

Beto O'Rourke did the same I think in the midterms, and came close to Cruz (given the State).

It would be nice to see a move away from the "pay to play" approach, which is borderline illegal IMHO.

amandstu

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are we actually capable of solving this one, we havent been exactly doing a great job of it thus far?

As they say ,we have let ourselves down.

I am actually amazed that we are/were capable of solving the "problem" (it should be viewed as a challenge/opportunity).

When I first saw the challenge (before the consequences of man made global warming became apparent) it seemed to me to be all about sustainability and a decent approach to our living and material environment.

Now it is about keeping the show going at all for the coming generations. (still plus the above)
.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/wendywidom/status/1080922261102739456?s=19


Trump's former tax lawyer hands himself in an unrelated matter.

Here's hoping he will do a deal... aka be a "rat"


Its Friday and I was hoping for an indictment or two, but this will do for the moment

everlast75

The Dems have put 2 Bills back to McConnell to take to Trump, both do not have any provision for the wall. However, both of them have been passed previously by the Senate.

McConnell says he will not put either Bill to vote on the floor, as he knows Trump will veto them.

Is McConnell refusing to do this not an utterly crazy situation?

jooksavage

everlast75 wrote: »

The Dems have put 2 Bills back to McConnell to take to Trump, both do not have any provision for the wall. However, both of them have been passed previously by the Senate.

McConnell says he will not put either Bill to vote on the floor, as he knows Trump will veto them.

Is McConnell refusing to do this not an utterly crazy situation?

It's absurd. It makes him look like a coward willing to debase himself and his senatorial colleagues to placate a bully. He'll have to give in eventually. Either that, or Trump gives in (unlikely). The Dems have the moral high ground here, they have absolutely no reason to back down. Having said that the "both sides at fault" bull**** is already appearing in political op-eds and I'm sure McConnell is hoping there are enough lilly-livered Dems there willing to cave in and meet Trump half-way.

everlast75

5 House Republicans supported the Bills, so there is an inkling of some Reps willing to take a shot at him.

That being said, the number of Reps and the magnitude of the shots need to increase substantially before they start making a difference...

Leroy42

Well, the Dems have done the obvious thing, putting forward bills that will reopen the government but not giving Trump anything for the wall.

So Trump now must choose between continued shutdown or giving up any chance of the wall being built during his term.

On the other hand, Trump and the GOP will try to claim that the Dems are not interested in security etc and that Trump is right that this is a hill (or wall I suppose) to die on as without the wall USA is totally open to any number of threats.

History would suggest (or at least my limited knowledge of it) that the Dems will cave in faster. What has Trump to loose at this stage? Give in and basically his wall is toast, and he will have suffered quite a humiliating defeat. Hold out and, whilst many will blame him, the longer it goes on the more I get the feeling that people will simply say 'just get on with it' and start to demand that $5bn isn't all that much to hold the country to ransom over and the dems should get on with other matters. His base won't blame him though, he has that rock to hold no matter what. The Dems do not have that level of hard support I would think.

If the Dems are smart, they will see the mid-terms for the massive result they actually were. This was no so much a vote for Dem, it was clearly a vote against Trump and a way to breakup the hold of the GOP and the levers of power. It would be a pretty big smack in the face for all those that voted if the Dems simply gave in to Trump, what was the point of voting for them if nothing changes.

One only has to look at the massive diversity in the House, primarily on the Dems side, to see that whilst the 2016 election was a major shot in the arm of the estabhlishment, the 2018 vote was equally, if not more so.

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, the Dems have done the obvious thing, putting forward bills that will reopen the government but not giving Trump anything for the wall.

So Trump now must choose between continued shutdown or giving up any chance of the wall being built during his term.

On the other hand, Trump and the GOP will try to claim that the Dems are not interested in security etc and that Trump is right that this is a hill (or wall I suppose) to die on as without the wall USA is totally open to any number of threats.

History would suggest (or at least my limited knowledge of it) that the Dems will cave in faster. What has Trump to loose at this stage? Give in and basically his wall is toast, and he will have suffered quite a humiliating defeat. Hold out and, whilst many will blame him, the longer it goes on the more I get the feeling that people will simply say 'just get on with it' and start to demand that $5bn isn't all that much to hold the country to ransom over and the dems should get on with other matters. His base won't blame him though, he has that rock to hold no matter what. The Dems do not have that level of hard support I would think.

If the Dems are smart, they will see the mid-terms for the massive result they actually were. This was no so much a vote for Dem, it was clearly a vote against Trump and a way to breakup the hold of the GOP and the levers of power. It would be a pretty big smack in the face for all those that voted if the Dems simply gave in to Trump, what was the point of voting for them if nothing changes.

One only has to look at the massive diversity in the House, primarily on the Dems side, to see that whilst the 2016 election was a major shot in the arm of the estabhlishment, the 2018 vote was equally, if not more so.

Not as much as he should. McConnell is running interference for him. Trump can't be blamed on vetoing a Bill which doesn't appear on his desk.

Having said that, passing those Bills was good strategy - the best they could do in the circumstances. If anyone gives them grief, just reply by asking them to roll the tape of December 11th.

The line from the Dems at the moment is that they cannot give into his temper tantrum over this, as it will only encourage that behaviour. Haseem Jefferies (who I am growing to like more and more) called the wall "a 5th century solution for at 21st century problem" - a good mantra to repeat.

MadYaker

I can see this one lasting a while. Trump doesn’t have much to lose by holding out and I think the dems are more likely to give in. But they’ll never give him 20 billion or whatever he wants.

rossie1977

MadYaker wrote: »

I can see this one lasting a while. Trump doesn’t have much to lose by holding out and I think the dems are more likely to give in. But they’ll never give him 20 billion or whatever he wants.

Dems will give in because they always believe compromising makes them look better to right wing media and Republicans (it doesn't).

Funny thing is Democrats would have agreed to allocate Trump $20 billion and more for wall a year ago had he gone along with DACA.

jochenstacker

MadYaker wrote: »

I can see this one lasting a while. Trump doesn’t have much to lose by holding out and I think the dems are more likely to give in. But they’ll never give him 20 billion or whatever he wants.

5 billion is the current bid I believe.

spacecoyote

rossie1977 wrote: »

Dems will give in because they always believe compromising makes them look better to right wing media and Republicans (it doesn't).

Funny thing is Democrats would have agreed to allocate Trump $20 billion and more for wall a year ago had he gone along with DACA.

I'm not sure the Dems can back down on this one though, as it would be a concession of wall specific funding which he would beat them over the head with for the next 2 years.

I believe rumour has it that behind closed doors the White House threw out a number of 2.6bn, so around half of the 5 they were publicly asking for & that the Dems were still a firm no

StringerBell

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Bad Stuff That the Stock Market Worried About Is Starting to Happen

It'll be interesting to see how Trump deals with the growing economic challenge in the months ahead. He has been somewhat blessed after inheriting a relatively strong economy, but the outlook isn't all that positive looking at the moment. We are undoubtadely at that stage in the economic cycle where growth weakens, but all the trade upheaval and general political chaos isn't helping to calm the situation. How will his supporters in the rust belt communities react if a recession sets in? Maybe just blame 'da libs & globalists' anyway?

Well, its pretty simple (as with most things Trump related) He has already been firing shots at those he will blame and he now has opposition in the House to use as his scapegoat too.

Sure hasn't it all been great the last couple of years with all his great ideas and policies? Now that Fed guy is raising interest rates cause he just doesn't get it and between him and those pesky Democrats he can't win this trade war that can be so easily won if they just left him to it. Unfortunately his policies, which are so totally awesome for all Americans are not being allowed to blossom because of those Dems in the House of Representatives.

Very, very, easy and ready made people to point the finger at for him and his puppets.

Edit: On a wider GOP note as has been pointed out already, its just a continuation of the cycle for them.

An_Toirpin

StringerBell wrote: »

Well, its pretty simple (as with most things Trump related) He has already been firing shots at those he will blame and he now has opposition in the House to use as his scapegoat too.

Sure hasn't it all been great the last couple of years with all his great ideas and policies? Now that Fed guy is raising interest rates cause he just doesn't get it and between him and those pesky Democrats he can't win this trade war that can be so easily won if they just left him to it. Unfortunately his policies, which are so totally awesome for all Americans are not being allowed to blossom because of those Dems in the House of Representatives.

Very, very, easy and ready made people to point the finger at for him and his puppets.

Edit: On a wider GOP note as has been pointed out already, its just a continuation of the cycle for them.

Trump's tweets have been too much and they may work against the GOP. That been said Trump's economic policies have been positive. We can agree the tax reform was sorely needed.

oscarBravo

An_Toirpin wrote: »

That been said Trump's economic policies have been positive.

wat

We can agree the tax reform was sorely needed.

No, we can't. The "reform" involved a massive wealth transfer to the richest in society. If you think that was "sorely needed", that's one thing; if you think we can all agree on that, I don't know what to say to you.

Headshot

Im listening to Trump and cohorts at the moment on the border wall crap. He just makes up so much bull****

You got to love that wasn't Mexico ment to pay for the wall, oh wait they arent paying for it so the US citizens will have to.

mcmoustache

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Trump's tweets have been too much and they may work against the GOP. That been said Trump's economic policies have been positive. We can agree the tax reform was sorely needed.

If I asked you how his policies were positive, would you answer or would you just scuttle off like a communist when asked about how to fund their aspirations?

Muahahaha

everlast75 wrote: »

Its Friday and I was hoping for an indictment or two, but this will do for the moment

Is there any indication as to when we might see Mueller strike at Trumps inner circle? Could it be January or is it further down the track?

Headshot

It would make a good drinking game every time Trump says "wall" you wouldnt last 5 mins

everlast75

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is there any indication as to when we might see Mueller strike at Trumps inner circle? Could it be January or is it further down the track?

Sooner rather than later I think. He asked for Stone's transcripts last month and most would see that as a prequel to an indictment.

The House dems have already said they would release all transcripts to Special Counsel as soon as they got in, so expect them to be on the way imminently

Itssoeasy

This new congresswomen from New York Alexandra oscosio(sp?) Cortez is living rent free in the minds of the GOP and the right. They put a video up of her dancing while in college and the way they were going on you'd swear it was a big scandal. I mean it was a college student dancing.

fivefive

trump2020 is a dead cert
prove me wrong

Nody

oscarBravo wrote: »

wat No, we can't. The "reform" involved a massive wealth transfer to the richest in society. If you think that was "sorely needed", that's one thing; if you think we can all agree on that, I don't know what to say to you.

No I can agree with him that A tax reform is required; what Trump did however is so far off the mark it's not even funny. Adding back tax break for private yachts etc. is not what's needed...

PropJoe10

fivefive wrote: »

trump2020 is a dead cert
prove me wrong

Pearcider, is that you?

fivefive

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Pearcider, is that you?

exactly
the dmcrats are sending multiples of billions abroad
but no dollars for the usa border

great tactics to lose the next presidential electon

Itssoeasy

fivefive wrote: »

exactly
the dmcrats are sending multiples of billions abroad
but no dollars for the usa border

great tactics to lose the next presidential electon

How are they sending billions abroad ? They have given money to border security just not the wall that Mexico was meant to pay for and which successive Mexican governments have told Trump to do one basically.