Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

PropJoe10

fivefive wrote: »

exactly
the dmcrats are sending multiples of billions abroad
but no dollars for the usa border

great tactics to lose the next presidential electon

Wrong on all accounts, as usual. Weren't you banned for trolling?

mcmoustache

fivefive wrote: »

exactly
the dmcrats are sending multiples of billions abroad
but no dollars for the usa border

great tactics to lose the next presidential electon

This will be deleted, but, what the hell...


What is this, I don't even?!?!


Bye. See you in another reincarnation.

Thargor

Itssoeasy wrote: »

This new congresswomen from New York Alexandra oscosio(sp?) Cortez is living rent free in the minds of the GOP and the right. They put a video up of her dancing while in college and the way they were going on you'd swear it was a big scandal. I mean it was a college student dancing.

The only person in the entire Congress who got booed at the start of the new session, they didnt even boo their arch-boogeyman Pelosi, just Cortez, they're absolutely rabid over her for some reason, hopefully a few of them will get too excited and ruin their careers over her but she should get Secret Service protection in the meantime.

pixelburp

Thargor wrote: »

The only person in the entire Congress who got booed at the start of the new session, they didnt even boo their arch-boogeyman Pelosi, just Cortez, they're absolutely rabid over her for some reason, hopefully a few of them will get too excited and ruin their careers over her but she should get Secret Service protection in the meantime.

The reason is quite simple: Cortez is a young, attractive latina woman & open, brazen socialist - she's literally the walking embodiment of some fevered nightmare in the minds of the GOP. I think she has been more than a little naive with some public statements, but doubtless she'll learn the ropes of Washington. She terrifies the establishment, because she's the real outsider, genuine new blood, not some paper tiger masquerading as a peoples champion like Trump.

Just to make the 'dancing' controversy even more asinine, and how out of touch these politicians are, she was recreating a scene from The Breakfast Club too, as part of this college video. American politics though!

strandroad

pixelburp wrote: »

The reason is quite simple: Cortez is a young, attractive latina woman & open, brazen socialist - she's literally the walking embodiment of some fevered nightmare in the minds of the GOP. I think she has been more than a little naive with some public statements, but doubtless she'll learn the ropes of Washington. She terrifies the establishment, because she's the real outsider, genuine new blood, not some paper tiger masquerading as a peoples champion like Trump.

She feels her social media too. In response to the "controversy" she now posted a clip of herself dancing in the Congress.

Rjd2

Itssoeasy wrote: »

This new congresswomen from New York Alexandra oscosio(sp?) Cortez is living rent free in the minds of the GOP and the right. They put a video up of her dancing while in college and the way they were going on you'd swear it was a big scandal. I mean it was a college student dancing.

Where was the freak out though?

I didn't see any prominent GOP people or right wing journos go mental. Heck even the Shapiro mob who loath her and have been trying to bait her for ages thought it was amusing. I just thought it was lazy reporting that right wingers were gong wild over it. Good for the retweets though.

I dunno were they prominent right wing GOP peeps going wild? All I seen was Adam Baldwin and Stacey Dash (lol).

You are right though that for majority of her political career, a lot of the right have tried to slam dunk her and its not been pleasant for them. Amusing to watch them make a balls of it though.

Jamiekelly

I might be a little naive here lads but did anyone else notice Mike Pence remaining close to the podium at the Trump rose garden press conference long after Trump had made his way back into the White House. It was so minor but extremely telling as to the mind set of Pence. Or the body language at least suggested he was itching to get back to the podium and almost address the press core as the President. Not the Vice President. There have been so many little tell tale signs of Mike Pence craving the spotlight in recent months that make me think that if Trump was facing impeachment proceedings tomorrow that he would be in the background whispering sweet nothings into republican senators ears about how great he would be for them

Rjd2

Jamiekelly wrote: »

I might be a little naive here lads but did anyone else notice Mike Pence remaining close to the podium at the Trump rose garden press conference long after Trump had made his way back into the White House. It was so minor but extremely telling as to the mind set of Pence. Or the body language at least suggested he was itching to get back to the podium and almost address the press core as the President. Not the Vice President. There have been so many little tell tale signs of Mike Pence craving the spotlight in recent months that make me think that if Trump was facing impeachment proceedings tomorrow that he would be in the background whispering sweet nothings into republican senators ears about how great he would be for them

You could be right, but he always come across as socially awkward more than anything.

Sad Professor

The religious right, evangelicals etc were upset about the AOC Breakfast Club video because they associate dancing and tight t-shirts with sexual immorality and sinfulness, but mostly it was liberals getting excited about it - in large part because they know stuff like this annoys the religious right. I noticed a lot of libs praising AOC on Twitter who almost certainly don't agree with her social democratic politics (which would see many of them paying a lot more tax) but presumedly are thinking that it's just rhetoric and she doesn't really mean it.

An_Toirpin

oscarBravo wrote: »

wat No, we can't. The "reform" involved a massive wealth transfer to the richest in society. If you think that was "sorely needed", that's one thing; if you think we can all agree on that, I don't know what to say to you.

How does that work? It benefited many including those on very average incomes. How is a tax cut a wealth transfer? Taxes don't generate wealth! Taxes eat into already generated wealth.


US corp tax was one of the highest in the developed world. Corp tax is increasingly recognised as a bad tax as it discourages business and sponsors complex corporate tax avoidance schemes. High US corp tax was extremely bad for the US, but also Ireland because it allowed Ireland to be painted as a tax haven. This set of tax reforms is good news for all Americans, but it will reward those who own stocks and in the US unlike Ireland plenty of work class folks own stocks. So I reject your absurd notion that the benefits are only for the rich.



The federal deregulation is also positive because it makes it easier for the Fed gov to run cheaply and efficiently while reducing onerous regulations on businesses.



Trump's tax SALT amendment is a tax-deductible reform that encourages state competition which will encourage i) more efficient state government through competition in state income taxes and ii) will result in intra-US migration which is a good thing.



Lastly and most important of all, the best way to help the poor is to foster economic growth, not social welfare. People want to work not get handouts. Historically some Democrats were strong on this front but only because they promoted free-market positions e.g. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

everlast75

Sad Professor wrote: »

The religious right, evangelicals etc were upset about the AOC Breakfast Club video because they associate dancing and tight t-shirts with sexual immorality and sinfulness.....

Its funny as they didn't see anything wrong with Trump saying he would grab women by the pussy without asking, or that he cheated on all of his wives, including his latest wife with a porn star, while she was at home with his baby etc etc etc etc ad nauseam.

Evangelicals are hypocrites, pure and simple. Selective outrage is their calling card.



(And btw, complaining about that video makes them sound like the bad guy in Footloose ffs)

prawnsambo

An_Toirpin wrote: »

How does that work? It benefited many including those on very average incomes. How is a tax cut a wealth transfer? Taxes don't generate wealth! Taxes eat into already generated wealth.

US corp tax was one of the highest in the developed world. Corp tax is increasingly recognised as a bad tax as it discourages business and sponsors complex corporate tax avoidance schemes. High US corp tax was extremely bad for the US, but also Ireland because it allowed Ireland to be painted as a tax haven. This set of tax reforms is good news for all Americans, but it will reward those who own stocks and in the US unlike Ireland plenty of work class folks own stocks. So I reject your absurd notion that the benefits are only for the rich.

The federal deregulation is also positive because it makes it easier for the Fed gov to run cheaply and efficiently while reducing onerous regulations on businesses.

Trump's tax SALT amendment is a tax-deductible reform that encourages state competition which will encourage i) more efficient state government through competition in state income taxes and ii) will result in intra-US migration which is a good thing.

Lastly and most important of all, the best way to help the poor is to foster economic growth, not social welfare. People want to work not get handouts. Historically some Democrats were strong on this front but only because they promoted free-market positions e.g. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

It's a wealth transfer if the bulk of the tax cuts in dollar value goes to the wealthy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. If the outcome of a tax cut is a bigger deficit, then the suffering is disproportionate. And we're not just talking about handouts here. A bigger deficit just means more government borrowing and less investment in important infrastructure. Even Trump's wall gets hit.

I agree about corporation tax cuts, but a once off massive cut is higely detrimental to the economy. And the outcome of this one was more share buybacks rather than more jobs. Any country that wants to cut it's corporation tax rate, does it in stages. Firstly to prevent any unintended consequences and secondly to smooth out the effect over a period of years and allow for tweaks if something unintended happens.

An_Toirpin

everlast75 wrote: »

Its funny as they didn't see anything wrong with Trump saying he would grab women by the pussy without asking, or that he cheated on all of his wives, including his latest wife with a porn star, while she was at home with his baby etc etc etc etc ad nauseam.

Evangelicals are hypocrites, pure and simple. Selective outrage is their calling card.



(And btw, complaining about that video makes them sound like the bad guy in Footloose ffs)

How the hell can you deny that there a huge push against him in the new nomination process precisely because of his character Jeez

Leroy42

Not by evangelicals there isn't.

The push back, in so far as there is one within the GOP, is not because of anything he has done in terms of character.

An_Toirpin

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's a wealth transfer if the bulk of the tax cuts in dollar value goes to the wealthy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. If the outcome of a tax cut is a bigger deficit, then the suffering is disproportionate. And we're not just talking about handouts here. A bigger deficit just means more government borrowing and less investment in important infrastructure. Even Trump's wall gets hit.

I agree about corporation tax cuts, but a once off massive cut is highly detrimental to the economy. And the outcome of this one was more share buybacks rather than more jobs. Any country that wants to cut its corporation tax rate, does it in stages. Firstly to prevent any unintended consequences and secondly to smooth out the effect over a period of years and allow for tweaks if something unintended happens.

But many of the tax benefits are accessible to the poor. It won't encourages deficit if is fosters economic growth though. It will be a long time before we can measure the effects of the corp tax reform but it seems to be encouraging repatriation of profits which is very positive. Buys backs aren't necessary bad, often they are neutral if they are correctly timed. The benefits will be felt for generations because no one will dare reverse it. Id rather do such a tax cut quickly and give businesses certainty.

An_Toirpin

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's a wealth transfer if the bulk of the tax cuts in dollar value goes to the wealthy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. If the outcome of a tax cut is a bigger deficit, then the suffering is disproportionate. And we're not just talking about handouts here. A bigger deficit just means more government borrowing and less investment in important infrastructure. Even Trump's wall gets hit.

I agree about corporation tax cuts, but a once off massive cut is highly detrimental to the economy. And the outcome of this one was more share buybacks rather than more jobs. Any country that wants to cut its corporation tax rate, does it in stages. Firstly to prevent any unintended consequences and secondly to smooth out the effect over a period of years and allow for tweaks if something unintended happens.

But many of the tax benefits are accessible to the poor. It won't encourages deficit if is fosters economic growth though. It will be a long time before we can measure the effects of the corp tax reform but it seems to be encouraging repatriation of profits which is very positive. Buys backs aren't necessary bad, often they are neutral if they are correctly timed. The benefits will be felt for generations because no one will dare reverse it. Id rather do such a tax cut quickly and give businesses certainty. It is very complex rule and means some companies will have a higher tax bill so it should do quickly to get it out of the way.

prawnsambo

An_Toirpin wrote: »

But many of the tax benefits are accessible to the poor. It won't encourages deficit if is fosters economic growth though. It will be a long time before we can measure the effects of the corp tax reform but it seems to be encouraging repatriation of profits which is very positive. Buys backs aren't necessary bad, often they are neutral if they are correctly timed. The benefits will be felt for generations because no one will dare reverse it. Id rather do such a tax cut quickly and give businesses certainty.

The tax repatriation is a once off bonus. And doing it in one fell swoop is the exact opposite of proper planning. By doing it that way, it creates uncertainty because it can just as easily be reversed. It fosters a bonanza mentality and the action of share buy backs just reinforces that view. Rather than investing in their businesses, owners are just creating a capital gain for themselves. The problem is also exacerbated by the dysfunctional political system. Do something knowing that it will be reversed by a future administration, rinse and repeat. No certainty, no cross party agreement, just spend and cut, spend and cut.

And it has increased the deficit massively. There was no attempt to balance the budget, just throw the money away and hope. Government debt has doubled year on year. The budget deficit has almost hit $1 trillion and is forecast to remain like that for years.

jochenstacker

An_Toirpin wrote: »

But many of the tax benefits are accessible to the poor

Please demonstrate how that is so.
Because otherwise it's just an assertion (and a deeply cynical and derogatory towards the less fortunate) to which I reply "erm, no" and now it's time for facts and figures.

Leroy42

There is hardly anything within the tax reform for the poor. It is all directed at the rich and corporations, on the basis that extra money will trickle down. So whilst they may end up benefiting it will be a side effect not the purpose.

Trump himself acknowledged this when he made up the idea of a tax break for the middle class in a crude attempt to deceive the voters prior to the midterms. If his tax reform was so great why even the need for an additional tax reform?

And money is not something the wealthy or corporations are short of, so it seems strange that it was decided that the one thing holding them back was they weren't wealthy enough.

But the promised supercharge of the economy has not materialised, thus in effect Trump has simply massively cut the revenue of the US. It was akin to him slashing room rates across his penthouse suites because he hoped those that rented them would give some money to those in the cheap apartments.

But all he has done is massively reduce his revenue and done nothing else.

jochenstacker

^^^^^
You would want to be a fool or have a vested interest in arguing otherwise.

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

Its funny as they didn't see anything wrong with Trump saying he would grab women by the pussy without asking, or that he cheated on all of his wives, including his latest wife with a porn star, while she was at home with his baby etc etc etc etc ad nauseam.

Evangelicals are hypocrites, pure and simple. Selective outrage is their calling card.



(And btw, complaining about that video makes them sound like the bad guy in Footloose ffs)

The problem I have with Trump is that there are so many own goals.

When complaining about AOC's video, the evangelicals, I completely overlooked the biggest hypocrisy - the soft core porn of the "First Lady"!!

pixelburp

Rjd2 wrote: »

Where was the freak out though?

I didn't see any prominent GOP people or right wing journos go mental. Heck even the Shapiro mob who loath her and have been trying to bait her for ages thought it was amusing. I just thought it was lazy reporting that right wingers were gong wild over it. Good for the retweets though.

Not specifically around the start of Congress, but ever since she got elected and thrust into the limelight as the social-Democrats new golden child, Hannity, Inghram et al have made Cortez a target for derision and attack; there have been a few hatchet jobs from them around her openly socialist leanings and policies. The 'Green New Deal' has been a particular target for criticism.

AFAIK, the 'dancing' video came initially via a Conservative Twitter account that tried to mock her.

Gbear

In a functional democracy, the OC dancing video would constitute fuel for some harmless banter. In the perpetual knife fight of American politics it only reveals the desperation and mutual loathing between the parties.

batgoat

Have seen wonderful remixes of it though. Think it has had the opposite effect to what they intended.

Christy42

She also seems to understand social media which can only be a good thing amongst people who needed to ask Mark Zuckerburg how Facebook earns money (not sure which side of the aisle that person was on but definitely an idiot) and Google's CEO about ads their granddaughter was getting on an iPhone.

Rjd2

pixelburp wrote: »

Not specifically around the start of Congress, but ever since she got elected and thrust into the limelight as the social-Democrats new golden child, Hannity, Inghram et al have made Cortez a target for derision and attack; there have been a few hatchet jobs from them around her openly socialist leanings and policies. The 'Green New Deal' has been a particular target for criticism.

AFAIK, the 'dancing' video came initially via a Conservative Twitter account that tried to mock her.

Oh I agree entirely. The right whether "neo-con" never trump, libertarian etc have tried to dunk on her since she emerged and its backfired amusingly every time.

I recall Shapiro asking to debate her for 10k and getting the hump when she told him to feck off and he getting the hump over it. She had just won a seat was all over the media , wtf would she debate Ben for a measly 10k.

I like everyone normal have no issue with the video, just the reporting was a little misleading, the idea that the right and GOP were going mad over it is a little lazy. Most just ignored it, some probably wary of getting hammered on twitter it and a few no hoppers had a sulk.

The initial account who posted it was a nobody with a few hundred followers.

I seen much more anger about her tax plans though.

Its outrage culture I suppose, the right have been masters of it....
e.g find a random twitter person with maybe a few thousand followers and highlight her stupid comments with doomsday comments such as

"THIS IS WHAT THE LEFT THINK...THEY HATE YOU "

Can't really moan when AOC people copy it I suppose.

relax carry on

I keep following Trump's tweets and reply every so often to a few. I hadn't seen too many Trump supporters around lately but a few showed up this evening.

Jesus, attempting to have a conversation with them is utterly pointless. He can literally do no wrong. Everything is a victory and they have bought into the MAGA doctorine 100%. I'd be fearful that whenever Trumps day of reckoning comes, that there could be some attempt at physical revoult by some of these diehards.

I hate to Godwin the thread but the blind faith in this man surely has some resonance with Hitler's cult of personality and his rise to power.

Igotadose

Paul Krugman points out that AOC is actually in good company with her recommended tax rates: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/05/opinion/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-tax-policy-dance.html

"The controversy of the moment involves AOC’s advocacy of a tax rate of 70-80 percent on very high incomes, which is obviously crazy, right? I mean, who thinks that makes sense? Only ignorant people like … um, Peter Diamond, Nobel laureate in economics and arguably the world’s leading expert on public finance (although Republicans blocked him from an appointment to the Federal Reserve Board with claims that he was unqualified. Really.) And it’s a policy nobody has every implemented, aside from … the United States, for 35 years after World War II — including the most successful period of economic growth in our history."

The tGOP are ensuring AOC remains in Congress for a long time. There's zero chance a GOPer can take her seat, so they're guaranteeing endless media coverage with their stupid attacks. I wonder, maybe that's actually the plan - keep a 'Socialist' with high viz in DC for them to stir up their knuckledragging base. Perhaps some other Dem might challenge her, but I doubt it, she's way too photogenic and too good at social media for the Dem establishment to not back her going forward.

I expect to see Senator AOC in the not too distant, probably 2022/2024, she'll mostly be on the hustings in 2020 ensuring lots of anti-Trump coverage.

duploelabs

Trump and Pence give different accounts of meeting with the Dems.

https://www.businessinsider.com/r-pence-meets-with-democratic-aides-to-discuss-shutdown-impasse-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

Seems like Trump is trying to paint the dems as the obstructionial ones, whereas Pence is trying to show that they're attempting to compromise.

Make of that what you will

everlast75

Her idea is 70 cents on the dollar AFTER the first 10 million in earnings - which seems like a thoughtworthy place to start...