Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V
Options
Comments
-
everlast75 wrote: »So what you're saying is, its the poor's fault for not being born into a wealthy family?
Gotcha
Thats not what im saying at all, AOC panders to the people who ask for $15 minimum wage or complain that they cant afford to live in new york city but want to do nothing about upskilling or making themselves work hard to get those things, the group that believes increasing the minimum wage by federal mandate is the only way that theyll ever earn more, and their grievance about this doesnt lie with theor own boss or the government, nah its just rich people in general who should be made suffer.
Genuinely , a 70% tax over 10 million dollars, who would actually benefit from it ? Poor people - not a chance, would it hurt some poor people working as staff for some of the rich - absolutely yes,0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »Thats not what im saying at all, AOC panders to the people who ask for $15 minimum wage or complain that they cant afford to live in new york city but want to do nothing about upskilling or making themselves work hard to get those things, the group that believes increasing the minimum wage by federal mandate is the only way that theyll ever earn more, and their grievance about this doesnt lie with theor own boss or the government, nah its just rich people in general who should be made suffer.
Genuinely , a 70% tax over 10 million dollars, who would actually benefit from it ? Poor people - not a chance, would it hurt some poor people working as staff for some of the rich - absolutely yes,
Your arguments are getting more comedic by the day.
Can you please explain (in some detail) why the Poverty Gap in the US is so vast. Or is it your assertion that America has less and less hard workers and more people who arent bothered to get up off their arse0 -
Is it only the POTUS alone who can call a State of Emergency? Can the Dems call one to force the end of the shutdown?jooksavage wrote: »0 -
I don’t think he’d actually try and declare a state of emergency. He may threaten it in an attempt to push the democrats to cave though. To be honest it’s probably best just to give him a few quid for for a fence and let him call it a wall. He knows himself he won’t get exactly what wants. He stopped using the word wall as much now and instead says border security or fence. You can see the goalposts moving.0
-
If Trump can successfully orchestrate a state of emergency, then the US will have pretty much become a totalitarian state.
I'm not sure what else the arbitrary suspension of the checks on his power or due process could possibly be called.
Any American who's not a dyed in the wool fascist ought to be protesting if not marching on the White House to demand his resignation at that point.0 -
Advertisement
-
Is it only the POTUS alone who can call a State of Emergency? Can the Dems call one to force the end of the shutdown?
I stand to be corrected but from what I've read, I believe congress could block Trump on this. In order to unilaterally declare a state of emergency for the purpose of building the wall, Trump would need to invoke something called the Insurrection Act, which is apparently fairly obscure and would be a bit of a Hail Mary. Again, I'm no expert on this but it doesn't read like there's any clear path for Trump to get his wall.
Just a side-note, I'm not sure he even wants to build the damn thing. As long as it remains unbuilt, it's something he can promise his base.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »Genuinely , a 70% tax over 10 million dollars, who would actually benefit from it ? Poor people - not a chance, would it hurt some poor people working as staff for some of the rich - absolutely yes,
Hold on. You think that if rich people had to pay 70% on earnings over £10m then they will stop hiring a house cleaner, or dog walkers? Is that you concern?
You think the best way to support people is to tie them to low paying jobs so that they cannot afford college and thus this upskilling you keep going on about.
But let us go with this upskilling argument, for there is merit to it. What has Trump done to increase access to education and upskilling? Has he provided child care facilities to allow those with children to go on courses? Has he arranged for free education to allow those less well off to attend university and thus become lawyers, doctors etc?
Has he strengthened labour laws to stop people being exploited? Are employers forced to provide upskilling opportunities to all low paid workers? Has a portion of all college places been set aside for free to unsure that all get access rather than just the rich?0 -
Join Date:Posts: 34397
Eric Cartman wrote: »Thats not what im saying at all, AOC panders to the people who ask for $15 minimum wage or complain that they cant afford to live in new york city but want to do nothing about upskilling or making themselves work hard to get those things, the group that believes increasing the minimum wage by federal mandate is the only way that theyll ever earn more, and their grievance about this doesnt lie with theor own boss or the government, nah its just rich people in general who should be made suffer.
Genuinely , a 70% tax over 10 million dollars, who would actually benefit from it ? Poor people - not a chance, would it hurt some poor people working as staff for some of the rich - absolutely yes,
Ok, I can accept agreeing to disagreeing to a certain extent, but this constant attack on 'the poor' as essentially lazy and disinterested in improving their lot has to be challenged.
Back up your claims with some data here, because otherwise your comments float somewhere between Draconian and Dickensian. I don't believe in handouts ad nauseam, but broad strokes that those in poverty have only themselves to blame needs to stop, unless you're willing to show some stats, studies or commentaries that back up this ... to be frank, crass dehumanisation.0 -
For once, I think the Dems are playing hardball. I have to say, I like it.
Trump is under tremendous pressure on the wall issue. Look at his tweets. He's sending SHS out to try bat for him, but even she is having a hard time standing over the lies.. on Fox(!) of all places.
He is on camera - owning the shutdown. Not much else can be said. Sure, his rabid 35% will believe whatever he says, but the rest of the folk don't. And even some of the 35% may change their mind, when the shutdown hits them in their pocket.
He might try the Emergency move, but that won't go far.
Trump has nowhere to go. That's what happens when you make crazy promises built on lies - it may take 2 years, but eventually the chickens come home to roost.0 -
I don’t think he’d actually try and declare a state of emergency. He may threaten it in an attempt to push the democrats to cave though. To be honest it’s probably best just to give him a few quid for for a fence and let him call it a wall. He knows himself he won’t get exactly what wants. He stopped using the word wall as much now and instead says border security or fence. You can see the goalposts moving.
I don't think there's any political capital to be gained with crossing the isle anymore.
The Democrats have already ceded too much ground for too long in the name of non-partisanship, and any more would just be outright moral cowardice.
Whatever about AOC's policies, at least she has been willing to actually show some balls in her rhetoric.
Not only would be it be immoral to bend to the whims of a growingly fascistic Republican party, but I think having such a flaccid and unprincipled platform would do more harm than good.
The kinds of people who give out about the "left" for being shrill weren't going to vote for them anyway. There's more to be gained, I think, from showing a bit of conviction.
Other than being a fellow citizen of the world, I don't really have any skin in the game, but I would be disappointed to see the Democrats cave at this point. The soul of their country is at stake here and there's no more room for backwards steps before they fall off the cliff.0 -
Advertisement
-
Funny how he didn't push hard early to get this wall project, to build phase over the last 2 years whilst GOP had control of all 3 branches of Govn't?0
-
I don't think there's any political capital to be gained with crossing the isle anymore.
The Democrats have already ceded too much ground for too long in the name of non-partisanship, and any more would just be outright moral cowardice.
Whatever about AOC's policies, at least she has been willing to actually show some balls in her rhetoric.
Not only would be it be immoral to bend to the whims of a growingly fascistic Republican party, but I think having such a flaccid and unprincipled platform would do more harm than good.
The kinds of people who give out about the "left" for being shrill weren't going to vote for them anyway. There's more to be gained, I think, from showing a bit of conviction.
Other than being a fellow citizen of the world, I don't really have any skin in the game, but I would be disappointed to see the Democrats cave at this point. The soul of their country is at stake here and there's no more room for backwards steps before they fall off the cliff.
I like her. I might not agree with everything she says but she seems determined, compassionate and willing to learn.
When asked by Anderson Cooper on a TV interview where the money would come from for her ideas on healthcare, College fees etc she came back with "Why does no-one ever ask where the money for Space force would come from?"
She has a point.0 -
I don’t think he’d actually try and declare a state of emergency. He may threaten it in an attempt to push the democrats to cave though. To be honest it’s probably best just to give him a few quid for for a fence and let him call it a wall. He knows himself he won’t get exactly what wants. He stopped using the word wall as much now and instead says border security or fence. You can see the goalposts moving.
I'd be disgusted at the Dems if they gave him so much as a nickle for his wall/fence. He's the one who refused to sign off on a budget that every R in the senate voted for. He's the one who has continued to paint himself into a corner for the last 2+ weeks. I'm sure there are a few cowardly Democrats who, given half a chance, would throw Trump a lifeline before the political op-eds start saying nasty things about them but I would hope that Pelosi and Schumer and made of sterner stuff.0 -
jooksavage wrote: »I stand to be corrected but from what I've read, I believe congress could block Trump on this. In order to unilaterally declare a state of emergency for the purpose of building the wall, Trump would need to invoke something called the Insurrection Act, which is apparently fairly obscure and would be a bit of a Hail Mary. Again, I'm no expert on this but it doesn't read like there's any clear path for Trump to get his wall.
Just a side-note, I'm not sure he even wants to build the damn thing. As long as it remains unbuilt, it's something he can promise his base.
Yeah, he didn't have the votes for the wall in the first two years when the GOP had the House and the Senate, but now he's pushing so hard for the wall because the Dems have the House, and he can blame them for not getting it. Means he can try use it in a 2020 campaign.0 -
Water John wrote: »Funny how he didn't push hard early to get this wall project, to build phase over the last 2 years whilst GOP had control of all 3 branches of Govn't?
This always confused me. Why did the GOP not simply sign-off on the wall well before this? Did it need 60 votes in the Senate and therefore the Dems had effectively a veto on it?
Seems crazy that the GOP let it get to this point.0 -
I really hope that his bully tactics fail and that the Dems play hardball to the end. He has over played his hand and backed himself into a corner over this folly. But he will happily let other people suffer indefinitely to try and get his way, and even if he has to capitulate he will paint it as some kind of a victory. In a narcissists head you never lose. Just a pity he cannot suffer in the same way as the 800,000 people with no salary.0
-
This always confused me. Why did the GOP not simply sign-off on the wall well before this? Did it need 60 votes in the Senate and therefore the Dems had effectively a veto on it?
Seems crazy that the GOP let it get to this point.
Surely a Master Negotiator could have charmed a dozen or so Dems?0 -
This always confused me. Why did the GOP not simply sign-off on the wall well before this? Did it need 60 votes in the Senate and therefore the Dems had effectively a veto on it?
Seems crazy that the GOP let it get to this point.
It's worth remembering, we're talking about 5 billion here. A year ago, the Dems had indicated they were open to voting on 25 billion if Trump signed off on a path to citizenship for the 1.7 million 'dreamers'. Trump turned his nose up at this. The notion that any wall proposal should be entertained at this point is laughable.0 -
listermint wrote: »Your arguments are getting more comedic by the day.
Can you please explain (in some detail) why the Poverty Gap in the US is so vast. Or is it your assertion that America has less and less hard workers and more people who arent bothered to get up off their arse
Income inequality in the US is so high because its a country in which the average wealth of the wealthiest is so high that it upsets the bell curve and makes those on the lowest end look worse off compared to other nations, ln the low end illegal workers undercutting legal citizens and immigrants plus the litany of state and federal taxes reducing income further.
America is also one of the few nations on the planet that allows personal responsibility to come into effect, you dont pay for healthcare and get sick - thats on you, you dont pay your bills on time - a bad credit score might get your water cut off, dont pick a degree that will earn you a decent wage - that student loan debt will come get you.
Its why a lot of the best and brightest in the world end up in the US, because of the economic freedoms it affords you, european nanny stateism may allow you to still turn out alright with all of the safety nets and free things available to you regardless of effort put in , but if you make it, normally stateside is where you go ,
Europe protects those who faulter at the detriment of those who flourish, America is the closest thing to a meritocracy there is where your families desire to to well and your own desire to do well really decide your outcomes.
A great example of this is asian migrants to the US, a lot of poor chinese and japanese people migrated to the US over the last century, through hard work and their cultural inclunation towards personal investment and education , they now represent the highest earning and most educated demographic in the US. The average income of a 3rd generation Asian immigrant family in the US is significantly higher than any other group because they took 'land of oppertunity' to heart.0 -
jooksavage wrote: »It's worth remembering, we're talking about 5 billion here. A year ago, the Dems had indicated they were open to voting on 25 billion if Trump signed off on a path to citizenship for the 1.7 million 'dreamers'. Trump turned his nose up at this. The notion that any wall proposal should be entertained at this point is laughable.
Yes that is my recollection as well. He basically had them agree if he gave something on DACA but he turned his nose up at it at the last minute? So I think he had a possible deal and decided he would go for a win-lose rather than win-win and now he is in trouble of losing himself.
His method of basically trying to bully his way is coming home to roost as now the Dem have power too. What he might up with is the Dems get DACA for 5bn instead of 250 -
Advertisement
-
jooksavage wrote: »It's worth remembering, we're talking about 5 billion here. A year ago, the Dems had indicated they were open to voting on 25 billion if Trump signed off on a path to citizenship for the 1.7 million 'dreamers'. Trump turned his nose up at this. The notion that any wall proposal should be entertained at this point is laughable.
Or the fact that Trump was prepared to sign off on the Bills now, which are identical to the Bills previously approved by House and Senate, until Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter lambasted him on Social Media.
The Dems are going to break up the Bills now and propose individual Bills proposing the re-opening of the Government, which will increase the pressure. Those Bills will be unrelated to the Wall funding and place the Reps' stance as being that they want to hold 800,000 employees' wages hostage on a "now urgent" wall that nothing has been done about by them for 2 years.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »Income inequality in the US is so high because its a country in which the average wealth of the wealthiest is so high that it upsets the bell curve and makes those on the lowest end look worse off compared to other nations, ln the low end illegal workers undercutting legal citizens and immigrants plus the litany of state and federal taxes reducing income further.
America is also one of the few nations on the planet that allows personal responsibility to come into effect, you dont pay for healthcare and get sick - thats on you, you dont pay your bills on time - a bad credit score might get your water cut off, dont pick a degree that will earn you a decent wage - that student loan debt will come get you.
Its why a lot of the best and brightest in the world end up in the US, because of the economic freedoms it affords you, european nanny stateism may allow you to still turn out alright with all of the safety nets and free things available to you regardless of effort put in , but if you make it, normally stateside is where you go ,
Europe protects those who faulter at the detriment of those who flourish, America is the closest thing to a meritocracy there is where your families desire to to well and your own desire to do well really decide your outcomes.
A great example of this is asian migrants to the US, a lot of poor chinese and japanese people migrated to the US over the last century, through hard work and their cultural inclunation towards personal investment and education , they now represent the highest earning and most educated demographic in the US. The average income of a 3rd generation Asian immigrant family in the US is significantly higher than any other group because they took 'land of oppertunity' to heart.
Sorry,
But i cant take you seriously anymore. Your points are off the back of a beermat.
I ask you again, You were born in Ireland? I assume (im not sure if you even live in the states judging by your post times etc etc.) So you were born into this world in a socialised health system and gifted your education off the hard work of others around you (this is Ireland) Yet you preach the gospel of Working hard and pulling up your boot straps.
It appears you don't know the meaning of the word and you've had a very privileged existence since you came into this world.
As for best and brightest going to the States, no Sorry its the delusional and moviesque hollywood vision of american life that has some folks go that direction.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 14681
everlast75 wrote: »Or the fact that Trump was prepared to sign off on the Bills now, which are identical to the Bills previously approved by House and Senate, until Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter lambasted him on Social Media.
The Dems are going to break up the Bills now and propose individual Bills proposing the re-opening of the Government, which will increase the pressure. Those Bills will be unrelated to the Wall funding and place the Reps' stance as being that they want to hold 800,000 employees' wages hostage on a "now urgent" wall that nothing has been done about by them for 2 years.
The pressure will really begin to ramp from this coming Friday if it lasts till then as that will be the 1st "missed" paycheck for the majority of the 800k Government employees.
Also , Bigger stuff like tax refunds and student loans etc. will all go unpaid this week..
Up to now the shutdown has been a largely esoteric thing for most Americans.. It will start to impact their "real world" in the next few days..
The Democrats move of splitting up the funding is very very smart...
The 1st one they are pushing is the one to fund the IRS as there is about $100bn in Tax rebates pending which obviously a lot of people are expecting and probably relying on to get through January along with all the retailers expecting people to spend that money with them...
If McConnell refuses to even table these bills in the Senate then the GOP just look incredibly petty.0 -
Is Mueller on annual leave? Very quiet, I was hoping January would be showtime.0
-
Eric Cartman wrote: »Income inequality in the US is so high because its a country in which the average wealth of the wealthiest is so high that it upsets the bell curve and makes those on the lowest end look worse off compared to other nations, ln the low end illegal workers undercutting legal citizens and immigrants plus the litany of state and federal taxes reducing income further.
Income inequality is so high because every President since Carter has given huge benefits to richest in society and corporations while screwing over the middle class.
Productivity has seen a huge jump since 1980 yet hourly wages have barely seen any movement in that time. Incorporating the rising cost of living and inflation majority of us society are worse off now than 40 years ago financially.
In 1980 CEO pay was 27 times the normal worker, in 2015 it was 270 times the normal worker having hit 380 times that of the normal worker circa 2000.0 -
rossie1977 wrote: »Income inequality is so high because every President since Carter has given huge benefits to richest in society and corporations while screwing over the middle class.
Productivity has seen a huge jump since 1980 yet hourly wages have barely seen any movement in that time. Incorporating the rising cost of living and inflation majority of us society are worse off now than 40 years ago financially.
In 1980 CEO pay was 27 times the normal worker, in 2015 it was 270 times the normal worker having hit 380 times that of the normal worker circa 2000.
Ok, why has wage stagnation been a worldwide phenomenon so ? , If it was a US policy then why have wages barely tracked inflation for employees in europe ? , Also could the disparity between ceo earnings then and now be to do with automation and mechanisation and the increased profits and productivity is coming from machines and not having to hire more people, The company owns the machines so owns the profit of their output, not the employees.
Also a few posters keep injecting that I was born and went to primary school in Ireland, at no point have I suggested eliminating tax paid for primary and secondary education, however as we are now seeing in europe, 'free' college degrees have made a degree the ever increasing floor for employees, the idea of providing free third level education was never to make a degree the new minimum and unfortunately it has just proved to be a very expensive way to end up with people working unskilled jobs while severely overqualified.0 -
Stallingrad wrote: »Is Mueller on annual leave? Very quiet, I was hoping January would be showtime.
He just got his Grand Jury extended for another 6 months so it looks like he is going to crack a few more eggs before this whopper of a cake is cooked....
Cannot wait:D the Dems are going to flood them with all the transcripts of their interviews as well so he is going to have to check them for perjury as well. Exciting times6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City
0 -
Stallingrad wrote: »Is Mueller on annual leave? Very quiet, I was hoping January would be showtime.
me too, but slow and steady wins the race.
Corsi, Stone and possibly Assange will be in the barrel soon.
Stuff is going on slightly below the radar..
"A mystery filing in the case of W. Sam Patten, the D.C. lobbyist who pleaded guilty to acting as an unregistered foreign agent in August, adds a curious wrinkle to what has generally been regarded as a relatively minor case.
On New Year’s Eve, prosecutors moved to keep a routine status update in Patten’s case entirely under wraps. The joint status reports filed after plea agreements but before sentencing have typically included a broad reference to the defendant’s ongoing cooperation.
The fact that Patten’s status report is entirely under seal could suggest that Patten, who has been seen as a more marginal figure in the foreign lobbying world, may in fact have more value to prosecutors, including special counsel Robert Mueller, than previously realized — or that a problem has developed with his cooperation.
In pleading guilty, Patten admitted that he helped a Ukrainian oligarch attend the Trump inauguration by illegally using a straw donor to purchase a $50,000 ticket to the event. The plea agreement required Patten to cooperate with the D.C. U.S. attorney’s office, Mueller’s office, and other law enforcement agencies.
Patten’s Ukrainian client — Serhiy Lovochkin — was the same politico who prosecutors said was Paul Manafort’s main paymaster during his time in Ukraine. Patten worked with alleged Russian spy Konstantin Kilimnik as well, who was charged with witness tampering in the separate Manafort case in June.
Prosecutors from the Mueller investigation attended Patten’s August plea hearing, signaling interest in the case.
D.C. federal prosecutors charged Patten with one count of lying to Congress and another count of failing to register as a foreign agent, after receiving a tip from the Senate Intelligence Committee. Patten’s case comes as investigations into the Trump inauguration heat up, amid allegations of pay-for-play that have swarmed the $107 million event.
Patten does not yet have a sentencing date. Prosecutors typically wait until they believe a cooperator has expended their usefulness before setting a sentencing date."
Meanwhile, the Dems are closing in too. Schiff is moving to have the phone records of Donny Jr subpoenaed to find out who the blocked number was that Junior called re that infamous meeting.
The tax records of Trump will be released soon.
January is going to be one hell of a ride.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »me too, but slow and steady wins the race.
Corsi, Stone and possibly Assange will be in the barrel soon.
Stuff is going on slightly below the radar..
"A mystery filing in the case of W. Sam Patten, the D.C. lobbyist who pleaded guilty to acting as an unregistered foreign agent in August, adds a curious wrinkle to what has generally been regarded as a relatively minor case.
On New Year’s Eve, prosecutors moved to keep a routine status update in Patten’s case entirely under wraps. The joint status reports filed after plea agreements but before sentencing have typically included a broad reference to the defendant’s ongoing cooperation.
The fact that Patten’s status report is entirely under seal could suggest that Patten, who has been seen as a more marginal figure in the foreign lobbying world, may in fact have more value to prosecutors, including special counsel Robert Mueller, than previously realized — or that a problem has developed with his cooperation.
In pleading guilty, Patten admitted that he helped a Ukrainian oligarch attend the Trump inauguration by illegally using a straw donor to purchase a $50,000 ticket to the event. The plea agreement required Patten to cooperate with the D.C. U.S. attorney’s office, Mueller’s office, and other law enforcement agencies.
Patten’s Ukrainian client — Serhiy Lovochkin — was the same politico who prosecutors said was Paul Manafort’s main paymaster during his time in Ukraine. Patten worked with alleged Russian spy Konstantin Kilimnik as well, who was charged with witness tampering in the separate Manafort case in June.
Prosecutors from the Mueller investigation attended Patten’s August plea hearing, signaling interest in the case.
D.C. federal prosecutors charged Patten with one count of lying to Congress and another count of failing to register as a foreign agent, after receiving a tip from the Senate Intelligence Committee. Patten’s case comes as investigations into the Trump inauguration heat up, amid allegations of pay-for-play that have swarmed the $107 million event.
Patten does not yet have a sentencing date. Prosecutors typically wait until they believe a cooperator has expended their usefulness before setting a sentencing date."
Meanwhile, the Dems are closing in too. Schiff is moving to have the phone records of Donny Jr subpoenaed to find out who the blocked number was that Junior called re that infamous meeting.
The tax records of Trump will be released soon.
January is going to be one hell of a ride.
If it's Don Seniors number, I don't think there will be enough popcorn on the planet available for the ensuing meltdown.0 -
Advertisement
-
Eric Cartman wrote: »Ok, why has wage stagnation been a worldwide phenomenon so ? , If it was a US policy then why have wages barely tracked inflation for employees in europe ? , Also could the disparity between ceo earnings then and now be to do with automation and mechanisation and the increased profits and productivity is coming from machines and not having to hire more people, The company owns the machines so owns the profit of their output, not the employees.
Also a few posters keep injecting that I was born and went to primary school in Ireland, at no point have I suggested eliminating tax paid for primary and secondary education, however as we are now seeing in europe, 'free' college degrees have made a degree the ever increasing floor for employees, the idea of providing free third level education was never to make a degree the new minimum and unfortunately it has just proved to be a very expensive way to end up with people working unskilled jobs while severely overqualified.
Yet Wage Stagnation hasnt happened in Ireland over that period of time and we have a vastly educated workforce in comparison to the early 90s in this country which is one of the reasons we are able to attract the investment we do.
Your points are easily exposed.
You are actually defending a 380 times difference in a CEO salary in 2018 versus 25 times in 1980.
And tell everyone its the workers below them that the problem lies.
Is this on candid camera ? Really ?0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement