Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Can we get on topic please and move away from the generalising about the US and Europe? Thanks.

Itssoeasy

I can actually see why Mitch McConnell is saying the senate won't pass anything the house sends to them(despite them passing them already) as look what happened the last time the senate passed a clean CR which had no wall funding in it ? Trump said he'd sign it, and then he did what he seems to always do and that go back on his word(as much as his word means anything btw).

Itssoeasy

DrumSteve wrote: »

If it's Don Seniors number, I don't think there will be enough popcorn on the planet available for the ensuing meltdown.

And was that blocked number which I think Trump was know to use a blocked number used before meeting but after the emails or when did it happen. If mueller can work that out then as you say, fasten your seatbelt.

everlast75

Most days I let DJT's ranting go over my head.

Water off the proverbial.

But it struck me today, that this cannot or should not be normalised. I know when something is repeated it can make less of an impact, but this needs to be called out every. single. time.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1082268365081767936

I know its not new, or something which prompts a novel debate.

I just wanted to mark it as abhorrent is all.

Leroy42

DrumSteve wrote: »

If it's Don Seniors number, I don't think there will be enough popcorn on the planet available for the ensuing meltdown.

Of course it was Trump's number, if it was simply a call to the local deli you can be sure they would have told all and sundry about it.

Whether they can trace it back to Trump is another matter. And even if they do, you can be sure that the line will be that they never discussed it and it was merely to ask about the wall, or social housing or coal miners

spacecoyote

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I can actually see why Mitch McConnell is saying the senate won't pass anything the house sends to them(despite them passing them already) as look what happened the last time the senate passed a clean CR which had no wall funding in it ? Trump said he'd sign it, and then he did what he seems to always do and that go back on his word(as much as his word means anything btw).

But isn't that, in essence, giving Trump a free pass, and really undermining both of the branches of government.

Shouldn't they be forcing his hand, going to him & saying, heres a deal that the House & Senate have agreed on, its now on you to veto it.

Instead he's basically saying..."We don't count. It doesn't matter what we think, all that really counts is the President's opinion"

ancapailldorcha

Off topic post deleted.

everlast75

spacecoyote wrote: »

But isn't that, in essence, giving Trump a free pass, and really undermining both of the branches of government.

Shouldn't they be forcing his hand, going to him & saying, heres a deal that the House & Senate have agreed on, its now on you to veto it.

Instead he's basically saying..."We don't count. It doesn't matter what we think, all that really counts is the President's opinion"

There is no question McConnell is running interference for Trump.

The question is why.

Itssoeasy

spacecoyote wrote: »

But isn't that, in essence, giving Trump a free pass, and really undermining both of the branches of government.

Shouldn't they be forcing his hand, going to him & saying, heres a deal that the House & Senate have agreed on, its now on you to veto it.

Instead he's basically saying..."We don't count. It doesn't matter what we think, all that really counts is the President's opinion"

I suppose you could call it a free pass of sorts. It could also be that Mitch McConnell doesn't want to march up the legistlstive hill and for Trump to push them down it again. He probably doesn't want to look foolish again, although as you say he looks stupid now at what he is doing.

jooksavage

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course it was Trump's number, if it was simply a call to the local deli you can be sure they would have told all and sundry about it.

Whether they can trace it back to Trump is another matter. And even if they do, you can be sure that the line will be that they never discussed it and it was merely to ask about the wall, or social housing or coal miners

I've heard a few people talk about the blocked number and if it would be possible for Mueller to trace it: turns out he absolutely can. There's no technical impediment but he would need a subpoena. If he doesn't have a subpoena (and let's face it, he probably does), then the Democrat-controlled Intel Committee can access the details from their end.


I think this is going to be a big 'un. It will prove the lie that Trump didn't know anything about the meeting. That's huuuuuge but as you say, they could try to stretch everyone's credulity by claiming they didn't discuss the thing that literally just happened. What they can't argue though is that Don Jr didn't lie under oath. He could well be the key to all of this - strike a deal or watch your son and son-in-law go to jail.

jooksavage

everlast75 wrote: »

Most days I let DJT's ranting go over my head.

Water off the proverbial.

But it struck me today, that this cannot or should not be normalised. I know when something is repeated it can make less of an impact, but this needs to be called out every. single. time.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1082268365081767936

I know its not new, or something which prompts a novel debate.

I just wanted to mark it as abhorrent is all.

I'm struck by something I read by another poster here last year (can't remember who, sorry!) who said that while it's pointless and possibly counterproductive to compare Trump to the fascists, I think we all know who's side he'd have taken in the 1930's.

pixelburp

everlast75 wrote: »

There is no question McConnell is running interference for Trump.

The question is why.

Because McConnell likes power and is likely so intoxicated within the profession that is hyper partisan politics, he has forgotten who he's meant to be serving or even the concept of representational government and compromise.

Let's not forget, this is the same man who, around the time Obama entered the White House, declared openly that his purpose was to simply block every bill and decision the incoming President wanted to make. His purpose is to be obstructionist, and is another good example of why term limits for Senators should be a hot topic.

Trump may be Floundering Autocrat, but the likes of McConnell are the real snakes. The kind that might live in a swamp, you could say...

mcmoustache

Leroy42 wrote: »

Whether they can trace it back to Trump is another matter.

if I'm remembering this correctly, the reports at the time weren't clear on the call. They described it as Trump Junior making a call to a blocked number which didn't make sense to me. I mean, how do you call a blocked number? Instead, it's more likely that he received a call from a withheld number. receiving such a call would be recorded in call logs and in an itemised bill but there would be no number associated with it.

On the other hand, the service provider from where the call originated would have a record of that number calling Trump Junior.

Leroy42

jooksavage wrote: »

I think this is going to be a big 'un. It will prove the lie that Trump didn't know anything about the meeting. That's huuuuuge but as you say, they could try to stretch everyone's credulity by claiming they didn't discuss the thing that literally just happened. What they can't argue though is that Don Jr didn't lie under oath. He could well be the key to all of this - strike a deal or watch your son and son-in-law go to jail.

Oh yes, I hadn't considered that part of it. If they show the number was Trump's, the last two years shows they will either flat out deny it, until such point as they cannot and simply claim it doesn't matter, or they will accept it was but claim it had nothing to do with the meeting.

But as you point out, both those scenarios place Don Jr in serious trouble. But we say already, in terms of Trumps denial of the meeting in the 1st place, that Trump and the WH are quite prepared to lie to try to help Don Jr. So I would expect them to continue on in that vein.

Igotadose

pixelburp wrote: »

Because McConnell likes power and is likely so intoxicated within the profession that is hyper partisan politics, he has forgotten who he's meant to be serving or even the concept of representational government and compromise.

Plus the wife'd lose her job as Sec of Transportation.

everlast75

pixelburp wrote: »

Because McConnell likes power and is likely so intoxicated within the profession that is hyper partisan politics, he has forgotten who he's meant to be serving or even the concept of representational government and compromise.

Let's not forget, this is the same man who, around the time Obama entered the White House, declared openly that his purpose was to simply block every bill and decision the incoming President wanted to make. His purpose is to be obstructionist, and is another good example of why term limits for Senators should be a hot topic.

Trump may be Floundering Autocrat, but the likes of McConnell are the real snakes. The kind that might live in a swamp, you could say...

That is probably the reason, but I would like to think it is for more nefarious reasons, i.e. dark or laundered money into his campaign. I would like nothing more than the likes of him to be taken down for illegal activity

everlast75

For those that are interested, a development in the Manafort case is due today..



https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1082284968934559745

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

There is no question McConnell is running interference for Trump.

The question is why.

pixelburp wrote: »

Because McConnell likes power and is likely so intoxicated within the profession that is hyper partisan politics, he has forgotten who he's meant to be serving or even the concept of representational government and compromise.

Let's not forget, this is the same man who, around the time Obama entered the White House, declared openly that his purpose was to simply block every bill and decision the incoming President wanted to make. His purpose is to be obstructionist, and is another good example of why term limits for Senators should be a hot topic.

Trump may be Floundering Autocrat, but the likes of McConnell are the real snakes. The kind that might live in a swamp, you could say...

You are correct about McConnell - His actions and behaviour during his time as Senate leader have done more damage to the democratic process in the US than anyone else in my view.

However I think in this instance the reason he is refusing to bring the bills up for vote in the Senate has more than a little to do with his fear that they would all comfortably get the 60 votes they need thereby exposing Trump as being the problem and not the Democrats..

If there's never a vote in the Senate , then they can continue to blame Pelosi , but if a vote happens in the Senate and it passes then any hope of getting the public to blame the Democrats for the shutdown is gone forever...

He's just not willing to take that risk.. and to be fair , why would he.

Igotadose

Quin_Dub wrote: »

He's just not willing to take that risk.. and to be fair , why would he.

Because, well, he is there to represent the whole country, not just the tGOP from Kentucky. But, it's the US. Party before country.

Quin_Dub

Igotadose wrote: »

Because, well, he is there to represent the whole country, not just the tGOP from Kentucky. But, it's the US. Party before country.

Oh totally agreed - The man is so utterly anti-democratic it's scary.


I've never understood how a Senate leader can have such singular control over the workings of the Senate.

Whoever it is , they should not be able to simply refuse to table a vote - Whether that's a budget proposal or a SCOTUS seat review..

It just facilitates utter partisanship.

everlast75

Talk of Dems blocking all legislation until McConnell takes a vote in the Senate....

Muahahaha

everlast75 wrote: »

But it struck me today, that this cannot or should not be normalised. I know when something is repeated it can make less of an impact, but this needs to be called out every. single. time.

Just on this- there is an excellent 4 part documentary called The Fourth Estate which RTE are showing at the moment, the first episode was last night so it should be on the Player and other episodes are showing the next few Sundays at midnight onwards.

The documentary follows the Washington bureau reporters from the NY Times for the first few hundred days of Trumps presidency. In last nights episode it showed footage of the press corps working at one of his rallies where he calls them out (I think for the first time) as being the "Enemy of the People". The look of shock on the journos faces when he uttered those words really was something to behold. These are veterans of reporting on various POTUS and Washington administrations and they just cannot believe the rhetoric he is coming out with, as they say on the program a Trump presidency completely throws any notion of a rule book out the window. With every breaking story on the Trump administration they are just shaking their heads about how things just get weirder and weirder, it really is a fascinating watch.

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

Talk of Dems blocking all legislation until McConnell takes a vote in the Senate....

Have the Democrats finally realised that "playing nice" in the current environment just doesn't work??

PropJoe10

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Have the Democrats finally realised that "playing nice" in the current environment just doesn't work??

Seems that way. They certainly seem to be well aware that bending over for Trump having just taken control of the House is an absolute non-starter. Whole thing is a real shambles.

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

The Dems are going to break up the Bills now and propose individual Bills proposing the re-opening of the Government, which will increase the pressure. Those Bills will be unrelated to the Wall funding and place the Reps' stance as being that they want to hold 800,000 employees' wages hostage on a "now urgent" wall that nothing has been done about by them for 2 years.

Here we go.

Very clever stuff by the Dems...

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1082310972126093312

Christy42

Great. Really shows it is Trump holding American people hostage to start his vanity project.

eire4

No question. He and the Republicans had complete control of the whole federal government for the last 2 years they could have done this anytime in there if they had wanted to.

jochenstacker

eire4 wrote: »

No question. He and the Republicans had complete control of the whole federal government for the last 2 years they could have done this anytime in there if they had wanted to.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Trump wanted it this way.
Pushing it through with the reps in power would have been too easy, but this way he gets to bully people, overpower them and when he succeeds he gets to gloat.
It is not enough to win, but others must have their face rubbed in the dirt and he gets to dance around, grabbing his groin and taunt "how you like me now?".
If he succeeds his base would explode with delight, how he is "sticking it to the libtards" even against their majority.

jobbridge4life

jochenstacker wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion that Trump wanted it this way.
Pushing it through with the reps in power would have been too easy, but this way he gets to bully people, overpower them and when he succeeds he gets to gloat.
It is not enough to win, but others must have their face rubbed in the dirt and he gets to dance around, grabbing his groin and taunt "how you like me now?".
If he succeeds his base would explode with delight, how he is "sticking it to the libtards" even against their majority.

I do not agree. It is nearly universally accepted that Trump was ready to sign the continuing resolution to fund the Government as was unanimously passed by the Senate before Christmas, only to backtrack when his cable news, and talk show firends started to scream about it. He reversed course, embarrasing McConnell etc.

Trump may have some genius moves, I just don't accept that this was one of them. He loves news media and he was distracted and frightened by the negative attention that he was garnering from his favs.

Itssoeasy

CNN have put it on their screen that Trump is enquiring for a prime time TV address tomorrow.