Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

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It was Paul Manafort's attorneys that failed to properly redact their filing.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Ah here. Would it not be the special counsel who redacts the stuff ?

everlast75

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Ah here. Would it not be the special counsel who redacts the stuff ?

It's their filing, not the SC.

So Trump's Campaign Chair shared polling data with a foreign power.

That, is clear cut collusion.

The question becomes whether Trump knew about that. I'm guessing its a yes.

Itssoeasy

Bryant Magnificent Housefly wrote: »

It was Paul Manafort's attorneys that failed to properly redact their filing.

My question was would the SC have to check it to stop issues like this happening.

Leroy42

It's incredible that the Manafort interacted is not top story.

The chairman of Trumps campaign sold polling data on US citizens to Russia. What did the data contain? Did it allow Russia to mine for potential agents?

Jebus, it's mind blowing. And Trump will still not have a bad word said about him.

And we are supposed to believe he turned up at a meeting with Kremlin Agents and didn't discuss the election?

Manafort should be amongst the most hated men in the US at this point


M

Itssoeasy

Leroy42 wrote: »

It's incredible that the Manafort interacted is not top story.

The chairman of Trumps campaign sold polling data on US citizens to Russia. What did the data contain? Did it allow Russia to mine for potential agents?

Jebus, it's mind blowing. And Trump will still not have a bad word said about him.

And we are supposed to believe he turned up at a meeting with Kremlin Agents and didn't discuss the election?

Manafort should be amongst the most hated men in the US at this point


M

Welcome the Trump reality. I agree though in any normal political environment the campaign manager of a candidate for president of the United States been shown to have sold polling data to someone connected to Russian intelligence would be a top story that would consume the news cycle. But as I said nothing about Trump or anything around him is normal.

everlast75

I'll just link 2 tweets here, rather than copy and paste as I'm on the mobile of that's okay.

https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1082763941246324738?s=19

https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1082764621147262983?s=19

People have said that it is near impossible that Russian interference would have affected the election. This says otherwise...

mcmoustache

I guess it's time for Trumpers to start shifting goalposts again. Remember that it started with something like "nobody on my campaign had any contacts with any Russians".

Itssoeasy

So the crime isn't collusion which the Trump team are technically correct on that. The crime is conspiracy to collude is a crime.

Itssoeasy

Now that the Russian lawyer at the Trump tower meeting has been show to be connected to the Russian government, and that manafort gave polling data to Russia. The big questions now are what Donald Trump knew and more importantly WHEN did he know of the interactions of his campaign and Russians ?

Trigger

Well with this being released today, his public address just got a lot more interesting. Will he sway off from his predefined "speech" into a rambling rant that collusion isn't a crime and it's all a witch hunt?

Itssoeasy

I missed VP Pence giving interviews today. He apparently said that the comment by Trump that ex presidents agreed with him on the border wall was an "impression." How does that not sound rubbish unless you are a devoted Trump supporter ?

SScope

It is utter rubbish. The problem is, they've spouted so many lies and defend Trumps claims, (all bull****) and they have yet to be taken to task for them in any meaningful way if any way

jooksavage

Surprise surprise: Trump makes a total mess of his TV address. A litany of unsubstantiated, racist nonsense. Nothing new. More than anything else it was boring. And whats up with the constant sniffing? Presumably its some kinda nervous tic, seems to happen when hes under pressure.

This, apparently, was Jareds idea and young Kushner is reported to have spent the day calling up R senators telling them public mood would swing in Trumps favour aftee the address... yeah. Kushner also advised Trump to fire Comey... Im beginning to wonder about this guys political accumen!

everlast75

jooksavage wrote: »

Surprise surprise: Trump makes a total mess of his TV address. A litany of unsubstantiated, racist nonsense. Nothing new. More than anything else it was boring. And whats up with the constant sniffing? Presumably its some kinda nervous tic, seems to happen when hes under pressure.

This, apparently, was Jareds idea and young Kushner is reported to have spent the day calling up R senators telling them public mood would swing in Trumps favour aftee the address... yeah. Kushner also advised Trump to fire Comey... Im beginning to wonder about this guys political accumen!

It'll work on those MAGA supporters who aren't affected by the shutdown. That's it.

If Kushner or Trump thinks that it'll change the hearts and minds of general public, they are screwed.

I didn't see the rebuttal either. I hope P&S acquitted themselves well

Zubeneschamali

jooksavage wrote: »

And whats up with the constant sniffing?

A backstage guy from The Apprentice has said that Trump crushes Adderall tablets to powder and snorts them when trying to focus.


Adderall is a prescription amphetemine for ADHD and narcolepsy patients.

circadian

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A backstage guy from The Apprentice has said that Trump crushes Adderall tablets to powder and snorts them when trying to focus.


Adderall is a prescription amphetemine for ADHD and narcolepsy patients.

I remember reading an article ages ago about how he was taking a dietary supplement in the 80's which turned out to be a type of amphetamine that was subsequently taken off the market, so yeah it's entirely possible that he's a speed freak.

Amphetamines are hugely addictive and would possibly explain a lot of his behaviour.

In other news it looks like Manafort is paddling up a creek fast. If Trump pardons him now then that'll look very, very bad. Yet, here I am wondering if it would be enough to push the Senate against him. Anyone else would be toast by now.

everlast75

Trump demands the attention of the Networks.

They give it.

He says nothing new, doesn't declare a State of Emergency or anything like it, lies through his teeth about immigration and then follows the broadcast with some grifting;

https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1082829641906311172

Mexico will pay for the wall

Mexico will indirectly pay for the wall

Pleeeeeaaase Joe Public, pay for the wall!

Leroy42

Of course he came across badly, as a media personality he is actually a very poor performer in such situations.

He is far more suited to one-to-one or off the cuff stuff. It probably comes from his lack of attention and inability to understand things, as well as apparent difficulty in reading. As he reads the teleprompter he almost appears surprised at some of the information. It is not delivered naturally, more like a school child reading a book for the first time in front of class.

In terms of substance, as was said, there was nothing new. It will not move anybody from whatever position they are in. Won't have done him any harm, is probably the best I can think of, which is a pretty low bar since this was an open goal as they demanded it, organised it and planned it.

On the negative side, it said nothing new. This was clearly Trumps chance to talk directly to the public, to get the message across. It is something that needs to be considered carefully before doing it as it carries such responsibility. He didn't deliver. Remember, this was prime time, talk to the nation stuff. This is usually used for grave situations, a need to clarify what the country is doing, to calm the public. What it ended up with was a plea that people need to help him as he is finding things a bit difficult and those terrible Dems are not giving him want he wants. It made him look weak, powerless and having run out of ideas.

The fact that he stopped short of calling the national emergency, whilst of couse very much lining that up, says to me that he bottled it. He had the floor, the ear of the nation, but even he knows that it is the nuclear option. The problem now is how does he call a national emergency and when. He can hardly call one in the next week or so. Did he simply forget to mention it last night? Or what would have changed in the next few days that suddenly creates this national emergency.

The line about the Dems calling for steel rather than concrete is going to hurt him. The Dems are not going to appreciate being lied about like that and will only further their resolve. It also goes against everything he has been saying. He has said the last few days that he never meant concrete, steel was the best option and would be US steel, so good for jobs. Now he has admitted that he never wanted steel, it was always concrete so feck the jobs!

jooksavage

As Everlast says, Trump said nothing new. Even his old lines were delivered so listlessly its hard to imagine him firing up his base. A total waste of everyones time. Goddammit, if you're going to use your bully pulpit, dont squander it with such a flat, nothing performance.

prawnsambo

Itssoeasy wrote: »

My question was would the SC have to check it to stop issues like this happening.

They may well have asked for a copy of it. And in a hard copy, the problem wouldn't have shown up. Some commentators are alleging that this was 'fauxdacting' in order to tip off other conspirators as to what Mueller knows about the issues. The redacting was done by highlighting the 'redacted' text in black. All you had to do was copy the text and paste it elsewhere. I kid you not.

Leroy42

prawnsambo wrote: »

They may well have asked for a copy of it. And in a hard copy, the problem wouldn't have shown up. Some commentators are alleging that this was 'fauxdacting' in order to tip off other conspirators as to what Mueller knows about the issues. The redacting was done by highlighting the 'redacted' text in black. All you had to do was copy the text and paste it elsewhere. I kid you not.

That theory doesn't stand up. It is well known that Manafort has kept in contact with Trump, letting him know what was going on with his investigation.

Therefore, it is more than likely that Manafort had already told anybody connected that Mueller had this info. Wasn't Manafort's probation revoked due to contacting witnesses? So it seems unlikely he would keep this info to himself.

oscarBravo

everlast75 wrote: »

Mexico will pay for the wall

Mexico will indirectly pay for the wall

Pleeeeeaaase Joe Public, pay for the wall!

Hang on.

The "Official Secure The Border Fund"? Which links to his re-election campaign fundraising website?

So it's neither "official" (in any meaningful sense relating to the office of the presidency), nor is it for actual border security (except in the sense of funding the election campaign of someone who manufactures a border security crisis for his own political advantage).

I shouldn't be capable of surprise anymore, but the only thing more galling than this display of naked, cynical grifting is the fact that his supporters will lap it up.

everlast75

prawnsambo wrote: »

The redacting was done by highlighting the 'redacted' text in black. All you had to do was copy the text and paste it elsewhere. I kid you not.

Agreed - amateur hour

Leroy42 wrote: »

That theory doesn't stand up. It is well known that Manafort has kept in contact with Trump, letting him know what was going on with his investigation.

Therefore, it is more than likely that Manafort had already told anybody connected that Mueller had this info. Wasn't Manafort's probation revoked due to contacting witnesses? So it seems unlikely he would keep this info to himself.

Don't see it as a purposeful slip at all. The simpler and more likely cause was a mistake.

So, as said above, Trump has squandered his chance.

Its been reported that two Republicans a day are peeling off from the support of Trump in respect of the shutdown. There is no reason to think that the rate of attrition could not speed up over time as the pressure increases.

I knew if even if the Bill is signed off (and that's taking that McConnell puts the Bill to Trump) Trump has a veto, but what I didn't know is that once you get to a certain number of republicans supporting it in the Senate, they can override the veto! (Thanks Lawrence O'Donnell)

So, if we take it that those two are changing sides per day, in the next 10 days or so, there will be overwhelming opposition to Trump and he will be forced down by the majority of his own party.

That'll give his detractors in the Reps courage to do it again, ie. they will smell blood. You know the 2020 campaign has gotta get started soon..

StringerBell

everlast75 wrote: »

We are told that Trump has "a base"? We are told that this 35% odd percent that will vote for him whatever he does.

Just a couple of questions.

Why are the rest of the US beholden to them?

Do the Dems not have a solid 35%, who will (failing blatant obstruction or abuse of power) vote for the Dem regardless? If they do, how come we never hear about the Dem "base"? Why don't they hold equal power to the Republican base? Why do they never factor into polls, or are discussed in the news?

The rest of the US aren't technically beholden to them, but tell President is so I guess by extension that makes the rest of the country beholden, for now.

The Dems have a solid base also that will never really leave them, we do hear about them and they do get discussed.

StringerBell

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'd be interested to see how much of that 35% base is actually Trump's base versus a GOP and/or anti-Democrat base.

Personally I think Trump's actual base is as low as 5-10%

Traditionally the GOP base is about 30/33% same as the Dem base, the other third is what's thought to be in play for at any given time.

The GOP base has been leaving him and will I believe continue to leave him. His own base however won't and they are a loud bunch which makes them seem bigger.

Leroy42

Don't the polls show that he consistently ranges within the mid 30's? He neither goes up or down too much. Wouldn't that be his base and it would appear pretty solid, in fact very solid, to me.

Penn

Leroy42 wrote: »

That theory doesn't stand up. It is well known that Manafort has kept in contact with Trump, letting him know what was going on with his investigation.

Therefore, it is more than likely that Manafort had already told anybody connected that Mueller had this info. Wasn't Manafort's probation revoked due to contacting witnesses? So it seems unlikely he would keep this info to himself.

Yeah, Trump and Manafort's legal teams had a Joint Defence Agreement and were allowed to share some information, and Mueller didn't challenge the JDA which would indicate that he didn't mind if they shared info. Theories arose when Manafort's plea agreement was pulled for lying that Mueller may have even permitted the JDA so Manafort would feed info/answers to Trump, Trump would then use the same in his written response to Mueller's questions, and Mueller would then be able to prove that Trump is lying because he already has contradictory evidence for Manafort's answers.

The redaction error was likely a mistake. As far as I know the JDA is still in effect so Manafort and Trump's teams had likely already long shared all that information with each other anyway.


As for Trump's address last night, I think it definitely did him more harm than good. Nothing of any substance from Trump, and he appeared completely boxed-in with nowhere to go, seemingly stepping back from declaring a national emergency about it. I think within the next two weeks the Senate and House will pass something which steps around Trump to at least restore funding to major institutions, and I don't even think Trump would be sad about that because as others have said, it ends the issue while giving him plenty of people to blame.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

Don't the polls show that he consistently ranges within the mid 30's? He neither goes up or down too much. Wouldn't that be his base and it would appear pretty solid, in fact very solid, to me.

Nixon still had a solid 25% approval when he resigned, but his disapproval was up at 66%.


For comparison, right now Trump is at 41 approval, 54 dis.

Leroy42

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Nixon still had a solid 25% approval when he resigned, but his disapproval was up at 66%.


For comparison, right now Trump is at 41 approval, 54 dis.

Fine, I agree, but not the point I was discussing. The poster was claiming that true Trump core was 5-10% and I was pointing out that polls show him consistently in the 30%'s (41% the latest as you pointed out)

Leroy42

Penn wrote: »

As for Trump's address last night, I think it definitely did him more harm than good. Nothing of any substance from Trump, and he appeared completely boxed-in with nowhere to go, seemingly stepping back from declaring a national emergency about it. I think within the next two weeks the Senate and House will pass something which steps around Trump to at least restore funding to major institutions, and I don't even think Trump would be sad about that because as others have said, it ends the issue while giving him plenty of people to blame.

Could this go the same way as the repeal and replace debacle? Trump made all sorts of noises about that, remember the big photo call on the WH lawn after the Congress bill passed?

But he basically simply stopped talking about it and let it die. Nobody is talking about repeal and replace anymore. It is totally forgotten about. At the time it was felt that it was a major issue for Trump supporters but they simply moved on.