Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

jooksavage

I see even Lindsey Graham is now advising Trump to end the shutdown. You really know they've conceded and taken ownership when that happens. How this will end is anyone's guess now.

pixelburp

Water John wrote: »

Expert on CNN pointed out that the normal practise with previous POTUS after one to one meetings, was that they would immediately debrief and recall as much as possible of the conversation. These notes would then be typed up, sent back to POTUS who would then fill in gaps that he could remember.

Nuts how something so obviously suspect and against all logistical (legal?) norms would be a massive controversy for any other political or president; yet with Trump, it's merely a Sunday.

everlast75

Schiff tried to subpoena interpreter- Reps voted it down

Water John

Wonder could the House of Reps, Intelligence Committee supeona the interpreter?
Boom Boom Everlast.
Bet he'll try again.

Leroy42

Whether or not other POTUS have done it, one needs to question why a POTUS already under massive suspicion about Russia would do this if, as SHS continually says, there is nothing to see and they are being totally transparent?

He either has something to hide, and thus it is worth the blowback on this rather than the truth coming out, or he is a massive troll. In which case, he is basically taking the p out of the entire US and his supporters are allowing him make them a laughing stock

oscarBravo

pixelburp wrote: »

Nuts how something so obviously suspect and against all logistical (legal?) norms would be a massive controversy for any other political or president; yet with Trump, it's merely a Sunday.

Hah. Remember when Hannity lost his frickin mind over Obama asking for Dijon on a burger?

amandstu

Heard someone suggest on CNN that the Dems are as well off negotiating with Hannity ,Drudge et al as directly with Trump since he seems to follow their lead.

Talk to the puppeteers rather than the puppet? (Is Trump "fake news" whereas they are the real deal?)

PropJoe10

pixelburp wrote: »

Nuts how something so obviously suspect and against all logistical (legal?) norms would be a massive controversy for any other political or president; yet with Trump, it's merely a Sunday.

That's the thing. There's been so many dodgy things since he took office, several of which would've ended political careers, yet you can hardly remember most of them now.


Like, when he accused Obama of a serious crime on Twitter (tapping his phone lines) without any evidence. Claiming voter fraud, without any evidence. The Helsinki speech where he contradicted his intelligence services has been forgotten for the most part. Calling African countries "****holes". There's dozens of others that don't come to mind immediately, but this is why the whole thing is so tiring. it's literally one thing after another, week after week.

jooksavage

Listened to the emergency Lawfare podcast on the way into work: Ben Wittes and some national security experts talking about the NYT story from Friday night. Actually a bit underwhelming - they seemed more animated about the constitutional conundrum at the heart of all this (i.e. is it possible for the FBI to conclude the President is a national security threat when it's his own prerogative to define the national security strategy?)

Funnily enough not one of them were even remotely surprised that the FBI had launched this investigation.

Quin_Dub

PropJoe10 wrote: »

That's the thing. There's been so many dodgy things since he took office, several of which would've ended political careers, yet you can hardly remember most of them now.


Like, when he accused Obama of a serious crime on Twitter (tapping his phone lines) without any evidence. Claiming voter fraud, without any evidence. The Helsinki speech where he contradicted his intelligence services has been forgotten for the most part. Calling African countries "****holes". There's dozens of others that don't come to mind immediately, but this is why the whole thing is so tiring. it's literally one thing after another, week after week.

I read an article on Bloomberg over the week-end and it made for sobering thought given that it could actually come to pass..

What If Mueller Proves Trump Collusion and No One Cares?

This past week, we saw the first concrete evidence that Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign colluded with Russia — and it seemed as if no one cared. That’s a reason to ask a disturbing question: What if the slow burn of Robert Mueller’s investigation ends with a fizzle, not an explosion?

What if Mueller, in his role as special counsel, uncovers meaningful proof that the Trump campaign for president knowingly and actively cooperated with Russian efforts to get Trump elected — and the public treats the news as completely unremarkable? That would mark a radical transformation in the nature of contemporary U.S. politics.

Of course, it’s far from certain that Democratic efforts to draw attention to the shocking facts would fail. But the fizzle outcome now looks genuinely possible, not because Mueller won’t get the goods, but because of a combination of Trump’s talent at changing the subject, his Republican supporters’ ho-hum attitude toward campaign wrongdoing, and public fatigue at the duration of the investigation.

As has been mentioned by many here previously , there is just such a constant barrage of noise here along with utterly partizan behaviour.. Even if proven guilty , he could get away with it because of sheer apathy..

Frightening..

spacecoyote

I wonder is the shutdown finally showing in his favourability numbers.

Latest CNN poll has him at 37/57% & YouGov at 37/55%

You have to go back to around September to probably see the last time his approval numbers were that low.

It's not significant, but a shift in the right direction

Leroy42

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I read an article on Bloomberg over the week-end and it made for sobering thought given that it could actually come to pass..

What If Mueller Proves Trump Collusion and No One Cares?



As has been mentioned by many here previously , there is just such a constant baggage of noise here along with utterly partizan behaviour.. Even if proven guilty , he could get away with it because of sheer apathy..

Frightening..

And that is exactly the path that he has taken. Throughout this it has been a constant refrain to downplay each and every issue, to the point that its hardly even an issue in their eyes, despite the fact that in most cases they did there very best to hide it from coming out.

Trump is banking on the fact that people will simply have given up on it, accepted that he has issues but sure don't they all. It is the reason he has to keep attacking HC, Comey etc.

The reporting at the weekend, that the FBI had opening and investigation into him working with the Russians and the that he has withheld notes of his meeting with Putin from the executive, should have been it.

There can be little doubt that he is compromised with Russia. Trump Jr, Manafort, Cohen, Trump. But people who want to MAGA are happy to hand the running of their country over to Russia.

These are the very same people that demand people pay respect to the troops, but at the same time are happily and willing supporting this acceptance of being in the hands of Russia.

Igotadose

Leroy42 wrote: »

And that is exactly the path that he has taken. Throughout this it has been a constant refrain to downplay each and every issue, to the point that its hardly even an issue in their eyes, despite the fact that in most cases they did there very best to hide it from coming out.

Trump is banking on the fact that people will simply have given up on it, accepted that he has issues but sure don't they all. It is the reason he has to keep attacking HC, Comey etc.

The reporting at the weekend, that the FBI had opening and investigation into him working with the Russians and the that he has withheld notes of his meeting with Putin from the executive, should have been it.

There can be little doubt that he is compromised with Russia. Trump Jr, Manafort, Cohen, Trump. But people who want to MAGA are happy to hand the running of their country over to Russia.

These are the very same people that demand people pay respect to the troops, but at the same time are happily and willing supporting this acceptance of being in the hands of Russia.

And the endless whataboutery in the right-wing media, the right wing trumplodytes like you have had here, contribute to the desensitization. Obama wears a brown suit and Fox goes crazy. Trump hides national security issues (his private conversations with Putin) from the security apparatus by destroying notes, and that's o.k..

everlast75

I am holding out hope that the report will be beyond condemning.

The media need to cop the **** on though and stop reporting on his latest racist insults to Dems and focus in on policy differences. It is like they didn't learn their lesson from 2016.

On another point, we have often been discussed why is it that the Reps haven't turned on Trump. This is an article from Nov 2018 which offers an interesting hypothetical...

https://medium.com/@leannewattphd/hidden-motives-behind-key-gop-leaders-cooperation-with-trump-russia-an-evidence-based-bdd5694b7c3b

Stacksofwacks

Can nobody stop this absolute maniac from tweeting, his latest ramble now threatening to "devastate Turkey economically" should they hit the Kurds

ECO_Mental

Igotadose wrote: »

And the endless whataboutery in the right-wing media, the right wing trumplodytes like you have had here, contribute to the desensitization. Obama wears a brown suit and Fox goes crazy. Trump hides national security issues (his private conversations with Putin) from the security apparatus by destroying notes, and that's o.k..

Th depressing part I find is that although Trump will go down and a lot of his cronies Manafort, Junior, Stone etc and I will be happy. Its the likes of Lindsey Graham, McConnell Nunes and all the GOP worms that enabled him and turned a blind eye over the past 3 years will get with hardly any repercussions. The minute the Mueller report comes out it will be like they had an epiphany and they NEVER know he was that bad. The sad part is the public will believe them :mad::mad::mad:

Leroy42

Yeah I agree on the media, they really do not appear to have learned anything and are still treating this like a TV show.

They gabble about the smallest things, and all seem to be looking for that ultimate story, the smoking gun that will deliver the final blow rather than detailing out each issue with the gravitas that it deserves. They seem to need to sensentionalise every story, rather than just letting the story speak for itself, which ends up with the story being the reporting or the headline rather than the substance.

It would appear, I have have no data this is just my feeling on it, that as much time was devoted to Trumps 'interview' with Pirro than the fact that he was under investigation by the FBI and demanded that notes not be kept of his Putin meeting. A meeting, lest we forget, that after which he stated that he believed Putin over his own security services.

But more airtime is given to the latest round of nonsensical mutterings from a known liar than the actual real stories.

Is this a fault of the media or simply the media given the public what they want? Bit of both I would guess, but the public certainly need to take a huge amount of the blame in all of this.

DrumSteve

It's like that whole boiling frog theory isn't it; everything is just so crazy all the time it's hard to differentiate between it all.


I can only imagine what the GOP response to Obama pulling all the notes to a meeting with Putin would be... especially if he was under investigation already.

Brian?

DrumSteve wrote: »

It's like that whole boiling frog theory isn't it; everything is just so crazy all the time it's hard to differentiate between it all.


I can only imagine what the GOP response to Obama pulling all the notes to a meeting with Putin would be... especially if he was under investigation already.

You don’t actually need to imagine it. Remember the outrage when he was caught on mic telling Vladimir jnr that he’d have more leeway to deal once the 2012 election was done? Foxnews nearly exploded with outrage.

aloyisious

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Can nobody stop this absolute maniac from tweeting, his latest ramble now threatening to "devastate Turkey economically" should they hit the Kurds

President Erdogan will be impressed seeing as how he said he wouldn't talk with Bolton due to what he said about protecting the Kurds, only to Don. It seems reminiscent of N/Korea. I'm waiting for the day that the average US voter will stop and ask themselves "would you buy a car from this used-car-lot saleman?"

Manic Moran

salmocab wrote: »

I know it’s all pie in the sky but I find it hard to believe that the wall could be funded, designed,go through the legalities and built in 6 years (which would be his second term). It’s a massive undertaking and before it’s finished it would already have holes in it, ladders and ropes over it and tunnels under it.

Unfortunately, such is the way the US Government works.

Hungary built its 110 miles of border barrier in 7 months after the decision was taken. Turkey's 515 mile wall took a little under four years. Nothing the US Government does is in any way either cheap or fast. Our processes to ensure complete fairness, lack of corruption and best value from the final bid are so ridiculous that we're better off accepting some limited corruption or best effort decision making to make things cheaper.

It should be pointed out this is at all levels of government. A tram platform in SF hit the news recently for costing $33m for 320 feet. Plus an additional $18m for new tracks and signals. And I wonder where my tax dollars are going...

Leroy42

The main reason that the wall won't be completed is that Trump doesn't even have a plan.

Build a Wall is not a plan, its an idea. As in everything Trump does (Healthcare, Tax Reform, Syria, Iraq etc) he doesn't do detail and as such the real problem is that there is nothing even ready to go.

You can be pretty sure that in the examples of Hungary and Turkey the plans were already well advanced and seeking political approval.

Is it a concrete wall, as Trump promised, or a fence? How high will it be? Will it cover all parts or just some? What about peoples private land?

It is undoable because of Trump, not politics.

I know his supporters won't like to admit that, far easier to blame the 'system', rather than place the blame on the man that should be held responsible. But I find it amazing that in the US, the country that the political system managed to win WWII, send a man to the moon, become the greatest economy in the world and the biggest military force, that it is because of them that the wall won't be built rather than the person at the top without a plan.

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

Unfortunately, such is the way the US Government works.

Hungary built its 110 miles of border barrier in 7 months after the decision was taken. Turkey's 515 mile wall took a little under four years. Nothing the US Government does is in any way either cheap or fast. Our processes to ensure complete fairness, lack of corruption and best value from the final bid are so ridiculous that we're better off accepting some limited corruption or best effort decision making to make things cheaper.

It should be pointed out this is at all levels of government. A tram platform in SF hit the news recently for costing $33m for 320 feet. Plus an additional $18m for new tracks and signals. And I wonder where my tax dollars are going...

Well, that's the thinking that got Trump elected...

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

I know it’s all pie in the sky but I find it hard to believe that the wall could be funded, designed,go through the legalities and built in 6 years (which would be his second term). It’s a massive undertaking and before it’s finished it would already have holes in it, ladders and ropes over it and tunnels under it.

Unfortunately, such is the way the US Government works.

Hungary built its 110 miles of border barrier in 7 months after the decision was taken. Turkey's 515 mile wall took a little under four years. Nothing the US Government does is in any way either cheap or fast. Our processes to ensure complete fairness, lack of corruption and best value from the final bid are so ridiculous that we're better off accepting some limited corruption or best effort decision making to make things cheaper.

It should be pointed out this is at all levels of government. A tram platform in SF hit the news recently for costing $33m for 320 feet. Plus an additional $18m for new tracks and signals. And I wonder where my tax dollars are going...

I really don't think it is a lack of corruption that has the US paying more than Canada for healthcare and getting less.

You have plenty of corruption (stemming from long before Trump). Just look at how much companies invest into both sides of the political divide, they want their money back with interest.

Turkey's wall (which has already felt defeat by a ladder) didn't cross private land AFAIK which will be the main stumbling block for the wall (aside from it's extreme pointlessness).

seamus

I too would dispute this idea that corruption in the US is low. Legal corruption in the US is enormous, kickbacks at the executive level in top companies, campaign funding methods that skirt around the law, exclusivity deals between all sorts of parties where it should never exist - like between pharma companies and hospitals.

The problem is that in the US, these forms of corruption have come to be accepted as the norm, that it's the way things are done in a free society. But your society isn't really free if your politicians are being bought.

My experience of working with Americans is that they engage in corruption on a constant daily basis and they're not even aware of it. Giving a tipper better service than a non-tipper, is corruption in its most basic form.

mcmoustache

The New York Times has reported that Trump has been discussing withdrawing from NATO but thankfully there ambassadors and military leaders have been working around him.

Mr. Trump’s threats to withdraw had sent officials scrambling to prevent the annual gathering of NATO leaders in Brussels last July from turning into a disaster.

Senior national security officials had already pushed the military alliance’s ambassadors to complete a formal agreement on several NATO goals — including shared defenses against Russia — before the summit meeting even began, to shield it from Mr. Trump.

None of this information is new, of course, except maybe for the confirmation from other sources. We've probably seen his ignorant ramblings in public already at various summits. Coincidentally, this is also in Russia's interest which brings me to my next point.

Is there much doubt now that Trump is compromised by Russia? Remember, all it takes to be compromised by another state is for them to know the truth about an event that you have been lying about to the public. They don't need a tape of hookers píssing on bed in your presence - it starts with something small and unethical and gets steadily worse. To give a more concrete example, imagine taking a secret meeting with the Russians that you probably shouldn't take. You might lie about that meeting having taken place but the Russians know and they know that you don't want it getting out. That is leverage.

And that's only one example. There's also the Trump Tower meeting where the Russians coordinated their lies with Team Trump - they both gave the same story on when the deal "fell apart" but the Russian's have evidence that says otherwise. That's leverage. There's also the records of Trump's meetings with Putin, or the lack of them. If Putin has a record of these conversations, which lets not forget prompted Trump to confiscate his translator's notes, that's leverage (Trump - "We didn't discuss sanctions". Putin - "Sure, we discussed sanctions").

Those are just a few obvious examples of leverage that the Russians could have over Trump but what's the point of leverage unless you get Trump to act in the interest of Russians against the interest of the United States? The Russians want a lot of things but the main things that they want are a weakening of the transatlantic alliance in the long run and removal of sanctions in the short run. If Trump were compromised, how would we expect him to behave in relation to NATO and more broadly, the US's transatlantic allies? How might his administration implement sanctions that were almost unanimous and popular?

We already know how he behaves towards NATO and traditional allies and we know that he tried to remove sanctions early on and then slow-walked more and even now he's trying to get Oleg Fúcking Deripaska off the sanctions list. These are just two areas where Trump does things in Russia's interests and not in the USA's and there are plenty of others.

So this guy has done plenty to be compromised and behaves like someone who has been compromised. But hey, now some people get to pay less in taxes so this is all A-OK.

demfad

Here is an unrolled twitter thread from Ex FBI senior official Clint Watts who has testified many times already in ongoing congressional hearings.
With the news that POTUS has been under counterintelligence investigation since the Comey firing.


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1084498964114821120.html

As he said he wrote from memory but its a good basis for what the bones of Muellers report might look like.

Muahahaha

Just on Trump and kompromat by the Russians, that article posted yesterday speculated that not only do they have dirt on Trump himself but on the entire GOP. It outlined how the Russians hacked 10 years of GOP emails which would be a treasure trove of scandals and cover ups It also reports an incident where prior to Trumps election Paul Ryan was overheard talking to senior Republicans keeping hush about the idea that Trump is in the pay of the Russians.

House Speaker Paul Ryan, House Majority Leader (and close Trump ally) Kevin McCarthy, and House Majority Whip, Steve Scalise, are also on our list of Republican leaders exhibiting odd behavior in relationship to Trump and Russia. The Washington Post reports that just a month before Trump clinched the Republican nomination, McCarthy was caught on tape talking with a small group of Republican leaders, including Ryan, while making an explosive revelation: “There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump.” Ryan quickly stepped in, warning his colleagues to keep this conversation secret: “This is an off the record… No leaks!” Ryan repeated his warning: “This is how we know we’re a real family here.” Steve Scalise added to the warning: “That’s how you know that we’re tight.” Ryan capped the conversation off with a Vegas-style call for secrecy asserting that “what’s said in the family stays in the family.” While we do not know the specifics of what these three men knew before the election, it is clear that they believed that Trump was being paid by Putin.

At the very least, the GOP leaders in the House — Paul Ryan, Kevin McCarthy, and Steve Scalise — were enabling Putin’s meddling and Trump’s behavior of accepting money from a hostile foreign power. Why didn’t they immediately report specifics about whatever suspicions they had about Trump’s troubling financial arrangement with Russia to the FBI? Surely these Congressmen would have been recognized as party-saving heroes at that pre-nomination stage in the campaign process. Was their silence simply the product of their desire to win at any cost in order to advance Republican policy goals? Or was their secrecy tied to other motivations?

Multiple news sources reported in July of 2018 that Paul Ryan was instrumental in stalling and weakening the Russia sanctions bill supported at the time by many in Congress, including Republicans, doing a solid for Putin, rather than doling out the appropriate consequences and protecting the United States’ interests against an enemy combatant. This level of cooperation gives the impression that Ryan’s goals go beyond the GOP’s ideologic platform, and that he is supporting the Russians or Trump’s relationship with the Russians, for some other reason, in spite of the condemning trajectory of the Mueller probe.

The article also goes on about Sen Lindsey Graham and how he might be compromised by the Russians. Graham is already on record as admitting that his emails were hacked.
https://medium.com/@leannewattphd/hidden-motives-behind-key-gop-leaders-cooperation-with-trump-russia-an-evidence-based-bdd5694b7c3b

DrumSteve

demfad wrote: »

Here is an unrolled twitter thread from Ex FBI senior official Clint Watts who has testified many times already in ongoing congressional hearings.
With the news that POTUS has been under counterintelligence investigation since the Comey firing.


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1084498964114821120.html

As he said he wrote from memory but its a good basis for what the bones of Muellers report might look like.

That is scary when put like that.

duploelabs

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just on Trump and kompromat by the Russians, that article posted yesterday speculated that not only do they have dirt on Trump himself but on the entire GOP. It outlined how the Russians hacked 10 years of GOP emails which would be a treasure trove of scandals and cover ups It also reports an incident where prior to Trumps election Paul Ryan was overheard talking to senior Republicans keeping hush about the idea that Trump is in the pay of the Russians.



The article also goes on about Sen Lindsey Graham and how he might be compromised by the Russians. Graham is already on record as admitting that his emails were hacked.
https://medium.com/@leannewattphd/hidden-motives-behind-key-gop-leaders-cooperation-with-trump-russia-an-evidence-based-bdd5694b7c3b

"No puppet, you're the puppet" -DJT