Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

jooksavage

Jackson Immense Skipper wrote: »

Was it Obama who spent $65,000 on hot dogs, think it came out of the pizza gate conspiracy?

Never seen anyone except Infowars actually report this so I'd say you can safely chalk this up as horse****.

duploelabs

jooksavage wrote: »

Never seen anyone except Infowars actually report this so I'd say you can safely chalk this up as horse****.

That and the whataboutism as a red flag

Phonehead

Jackson Immense Skipper wrote: »

Was it Obama who spent $65,000 on hot dogs, think it came out of the pizza gate conspiracy?

I haven't seen any credible or even biased main-stream media (Fox News) report this... I'd safely say this is fake news.

circadian

A quick search takes me to the subreddit that shall not be named and wikileaks. Bull****.

Penn

Pelosi has written to Trump regarding the State of the Union address, outlining that as full security can't be provided for him as a result of the shutdown, Trump can either arrange with them for the SOTU to take place at a later date or can submit his SOTU address in writing instead (which was how it used to be done before the President started to be invited to give it publicly).

Genius move from Pelosi. Trump can't really give his SOTU in person without ending the government shutdown.

Cheerful Spring

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Since even I, a casual observer in a distant land, know there is an assload of evidence for collusion, it is a certainty that Mueller has a lot more.


The fact that Guiliani has come out several times to say collusion is not a crime means he and Trump know that, too.

The only way Trump falls if there is some secret witness who got all the info. I don't see how they can prove Trump is working for Putin anyways?

Like we don't claim Kim Jong-UN has dirt about Trump. His very friendly with Kim also and sending him love letters on Twitter. Trump is acting how he is.

I think this will be proven in time to be just a sideshow, to hide Hilary failure to beat Trump.

listermint

The Dems have garnered enough republican voters to end the shutdown but McConnell won't put it to the house.

He's a sick sick man that lad.

Leroy42

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The only way Trump falls if there is some secret witness who got all the info. I don't see how they can prove Trump is working for Putin anyways?

Like we don't claim Kim Jong-UN has dirt about Trump. His very friendly with Kim also and sending him love letters on Twitter. Trump is acting how he is.

I think this will be proven in time to be just a sideshow, to hide Hilary failure to beat Trump.

Trump Tower Meeting with member so of the NK secret service?
Was Trumps campaign manager, working for Trump for free, closely linked with Kim?
Was Flynn caught lying trying to discuss sanctions with Kim illegally prior to Trump taking office?
Has Trump claimed that he believes Kim over the secret services operatives of FBI/CIA
Has Trump consistently lied about business dealings with NK?

If you are done to the fact that nobody has uncovered any collusion with NK as a defence then you are running pretty low

Zubeneschamali

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The only way Trump falls if there is some secret witness who got all the info. I don't see how they can prove Trump is working for Putin anyways? .

Trump when denying collusion associated with the Trump Tower meeting blurted out that there was "no phone call". No-one had publicly mentioned any phone call associated with that meeting, so this was Trump slipping up. There certainly was a phone call which Trump thinks is evidence of collusion associated with that meeting.

He had already promised to make a speech with new dirt on Hillary for the week after the meeting, I think he dialled into the Trump Tower meeting in person.

That is a federal crime, soliciting campaign help from foreigners. The fact that the foreigners are Russian spies makes it stupider but it is illegal even if they were not spies.

Anyone want to bet Mueller has a recording of that call? The entire intelligence community hopes Trump dies in jail.

Penn

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The only way Trump falls if there is some secret witness who got all the info. I don't see how they can prove Trump is working for Putin anyways?

Like we don't claim Kim Jong-UN has dirt about Trump. His very friendly with Kim also and sending him love letters on Twitter. Trump is acting how he is.

I think this will be proven in time to be just a sideshow, to hide Hilary failure to beat Trump.

I think that the fact Trump is President kinda makes 'hiding Hilary's failure to beat Trump' a bit of a lost cause. I think most people are likely aware of that.

However, the reason we don't claim KJU has dirt on Trump is because there isn't a huge amount of evidence backing that claim up. Whereas with Trump and his team, there's something like over 100 meetings between members of Trump's team with people acting on behalf of Russia, Trump continuously advances things that Russia want done or tries to prevent sanctions being placed against Russian interests, and with regards to how friendly Trump is with Kim and Putin and your claim that "Trump is acting how he is", he routinely and persistently insults, is rude about or flat out ignorant to other world leaders who were and should be considered allies. He treats Putin with far more respect and reverence than he has ever treated Merkel, Macron, May or Trudeau.

The signs are there. The public evidence strongly suggests Trump is at the very least working to push Russian interests for reasons currently unknown (I don't know if I'd go so far as to say he's working for Putin or is a Russian agent, but he's at least doing a lot of things Putin would want him to do even against the advice and findings of his own departments). And that's just the public evidence; as Zubeneschamali said chances are Mueller has a hell of a lot more which hasn't been publicly released.

Pelvis

Penn wrote: »

Pelosi has written to Trump regarding the State of the Union address, outlining that as full security can't be provided for him as a result of the shutdown, Trump can either arrange with them for the SOTU to take place at a later date or can submit his SOTU address in writing instead (which was how it used to be done before the President started to be invited to give it publicly).

Genius move from Pelosi. Trump can't really give his SOTU in person without ending the government shutdown.

TBH, I doubt Trump gives a toss about giving a SOTU address, he'd probably prefer not to.

jobbridge4life

listermint wrote: »

The Dems have garnered enough republican voters to end the shutdown but McConnell won't put it to the house.

He's a sick sick man that lad.

The worst. Worse, if it is possible, than Trump himself.

If the US has someone whom historians will look back on as the gravedigger of American democracy, it is Mitch McConnell. He stoked the hyperpolarization of American politics to make the Obama presidency as dysfunctional and paralyzed as he possibly could.

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/10/25/suffocation-of-democracy/

Quin_Dub

Pelvis wrote: »

TBH, I doubt Trump gives a toss about giving a SOTU address, he'd probably prefer not to.

Trump not caring about an event all about him with wall to wall TV coverage?

That would be out of character to say the least.

Penn

Pelvis wrote: »

TBH, I doubt Trump gives a toss about giving a SOTU address, he'd probably prefer not to.

It's his chance to stand in front of Dems with the nation watching and blame them for everything. I'd say he's already started practicing it in front of the mirror!

aloyisious

ECO_Mental wrote: »

This is the reason why he WONT resign...while being POTUS he has protection eg Dept Justice memo you cant indict a president also he has backing from all his senate cronies. He wields power over a lot and can pull a lot of strings still.



If he resigns he is just a "Joe Public" and will immediately be prosecuted etc unfortunately he will be dragged out kicking and screaming if at all and he has to go for a second term to still have these POTUS privileges.



No way will he resign!

One reason for him to resign is if one or more of his Senators support-team are found by Mueller to be taking backhanders through foreign investors or withholding evidence they possess of other senators crooked actions. A leak to the media of certain senators being in the sights of the investigation would torpedo the Trump Admin. His senate supporters would be off ship like rats. With so much in slush-funding floating around the campaign team, the chance is there that the GOP got some and that is the route to target the senators in his back pocket.

v638sg7k1a92bx

jooksavage wrote: »

Never seen anyone except Infowars actually report this so I'd say you can safely chalk this up as horse****.

Did it not come out in the wiki leaks emails and conspiracy theorists jumped on it saying that hot dogs was code name for something else?

Itssoeasy

Penn wrote: »

Pelosi has written to Trump regarding the State of the Union address, outlining that as full security can't be provided for him as a result of the shutdown, Trump can either arrange with them for the SOTU to take place at a later date or can submit his SOTU address in writing instead (which was how it used to be done before the President started to be invited to give it publicly).

Genius move from Pelosi. Trump can't really give his SOTU in person without ending the government shutdown.

Genius idea indeed. The only requirement for the state of the union is for the sitting president to inform the congress of the state of the union which was as you say was done up until the 20th century in writing.

aloyisious

Penn wrote: »

Pelosi has written to Trump regarding the State of the Union address, outlining that as full security can't be provided for him as a result of the shutdown, Trump can either arrange with them for the SOTU to take place at a later date or can submit his SOTU address in writing instead (which was how it used to be done before the President started to be invited to give it publicly).

Genius move from Pelosi. Trump can't really give his SOTU in person without ending the government shutdown.

Listening to CNN news about Nancy's move and that the DHS head agrees with her but also reporting the DHS head as saying it could provide protection. The DHS apparently controls the Secret Service now. Is security in any way under Nancy's control of the house and does it have relevance to her move on the SOTU speech? Can it force Don to give ground first on the shutdown?

everlast75

Reps would not vote to stop uplifting of sanctions against Oleg.

Disgusting

aloyisious

Lindsey Graham's statement on U.S TV news tonight: President Trump's statement in Syria that Isis was defeated emboldened Isis in the car-bomb there today that killed 4 Americans, incl 2 U.S. servicemen. I can't see Don being happy with that outright blaming of him for the bombing and the 4 deaths.

Itssoeasy

aloyisious wrote: »

Lindsey Graham's statement on U.S TV news tonight: President Trump's statement in Syria that Isis was defeated emboldened Isis in the car-bomb there today that killed 4 Americans, incl 2 U.S. servicemen. I can't see Don being happy with that outright blaming of him for the bombing and the 4 deaths.

Wait is that a GOP senator not mincing their words and blaming Trump ? Oh dear he won't like that so he won't.

Penn

aloyisious wrote: »

Listening to CNN news about Nancy's move and that the DHS head agrees with her but also reporting the DHS head as saying it could provide protection. The DHS apparently controls the Secret Service now. Is security in any way under Nancy's control of the house and does it have relevance to her move on the SOTU speech? Can it force Don to give ground first on the shutdown?

As far as I know (which likely isn't far), Pelosi's letter is basically disinviting him regardless, ie. she's not asking, she's telling. She's using the shutdown and the security issues as the reason. Even if the DHS says they can provide protection, I don't think Pelosi would be forced to allow the SOTU to go ahead. She has a solid reason to disinvite the President, and ultimately full security is compromised.

Manic Moran

In the meantime, the Supreme Court is starting to put out opinions this year. We've had six unanimous opinions, and this week, our first 5-4 split. In the red corner, we have Thomas, Breyer, Alito, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. In the Blue corner, Kagan, Ginsburg, Roberts and Sotomayor. The winners held (oversimplification) that robbery of a person constitutes threat or use of force, even if the resistance by the victim is very slight. The dissent, obviously, disagreed. The astute will notice that Breyer and Roberts "Swapped sides", as it were.

Leroy42

Yet another shift in position.

Giuliani basically accepts that Trump campaign colluded with Russia. The line now is that Trump didn't know about it.

rudy giuliani: "I never said there was no collusion between the campaign! Or between people in the campaign" https://t.co/K8ATLlwKC2

Trumps lawyer has just stated that he accepts collusion happened.

jooksavage

Jackson Immense Skipper wrote: »

Did it not come out in the wiki leaks emails and conspiracy theorists jumped on it saying that hot dogs was code name for something else?

No.

The single, solitary "source" was an email from one person at known sh**-posters Stratfor (one of those obviously fake "global strategy" consultants that are basically farms for this stuff). The email contained no facts or sources and the author started the allegation with 'I THINK...."

How, at this late stage is anyone still taking Pizzagate stuff seriously?

jooksavage

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yet another shift in position.

Giuliani basically accepts that Trump campaign colluded with Russia. The line now is that Trump didn't know about it.

rudy giuliani: "I never said there was no collusion between the campaign! Or between people in the campaign" https://t.co/K8ATLlwKC2

Trumps lawyer has just stated that he accepts collusion happened.

There is method to this and Giuliani is being well-utilized here. He's a clown with zero credibility (though i doubt he thinks that) so he can say almost anything and it doesnt carry too much weight. If Emmet Flood went on TV and said this stuff, there would be consequences for Trump because he's a regarded as a serious person while Giuliani is just a caricature. Giuliani is free to lay it all out so that when Muellers report is complete, Trump and his surrogates can say "nothing new here", as if the reports only value was to reveal hitherto unknown information (though I think there will be plenty of that too).

At the end of the day, Giuliani is there to court public opinion and nothing he says will be able to help Trump and his family when the indictments start dropping.

Leroy42

Totally agree, but he is used to try to gauge reaction to test out a media strategy, with as you say, easy get out if it doesn't fly as it only Giuliani.

Which is crazy in itself since he is the lawyer for POTUS! But that is a separate issue.

What this clearly indicates is that Trump knows that collusion happened between people with his campaign and Russia. And therefore that Russia attempted to influence the 2016 campaign in his favour.

That is massive. It will be downplayed because of who said it, but Giuliani is neither stupid or crazy. He came on the show to say that.

Now Trumps line will shift (remember is has staunchly defended Manafort and Flynn and claimed the entire investigation a witch hunt and told the world that he believes Putin over the FBI) to he accepts it happened but so what.

circadian

That didn’t happen.

And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.

And if it was, that’s not a big deal.

And if it is, that’s not my fault.

And if it was, I didn’t mean it.

And if I did…

You deserved it.



So this is how far along we are then.

everlast75

2 things.

1) he had no choice but to admit collusion happened. It was confirmed in the Manafort case that he shared polling info with KK whilst campaign manager

2) I know I sound like a broken record, but why don't news anchors prepare for interviews with him or his surrogates properly. As soon as they say something which they previously denied, the host should say "that's your position? Roll the tape!" and play a montage of them saying the opposite.
They should have video to back up *everything* they question them on, as they can do a 180 at any given time on any topic.
It's one thing to contradict a surrogate - they will just deny it and it degenerates into a shouting match.
Better to use ample video to prove them to be liars rather than just say they are.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

Giuliani is neither stupid or crazy.

Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence.