Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Call me Al

Manic Moran wrote: »

So I'm looking at the longer videos from that incident, and it seems that somehow the Indigenous People's March and the March for Life (anti-abortion, not anti-immigration) crowd got mixed up.

So apparently they started off being students doing daft but harmless student things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6avKSz3d4I

Then the two protests got intermingled, apparently by the native american contingent moving to the students.
https://twitter.com/mariajudy_/status/1086681831804674048

Mr Phillips then moves through the crowd, stops right in front of the kid who moves neither forwards, backwards, nor says a word, and sings in his face.
https://youtu.be/sIG5ZB0fw1k

Whatever the truth behind this (and I'm sure everyone is editing the heck out of things), I strongly suspect the story is not what is initially going around. Most of the repeats of the video I've seen have been the last one above, but starting almost a minute in.

Sorry manic,
I have sons. I don't care who intermingled with who. If, considering they were marching themselves elsewhere in the city, they behaved like like that towards a peaceful march that they had no business getting involved in, I'd be equal parts fuming and terribly upset with both my child and the adults who should have been in charge of their students.
I most certainly would not be grasping at excuses to explain what is shown on any of the clips.

eta at least the diocese has had the good sense to apologise.

Pelvis

Manic Moran wrote: »

So I'm looking at the longer videos from that incident, and it seems that somehow the Indigenous People's March and the March for Life (anti-abortion, not anti-immigration) crowd got mixed up.

So apparently they started off being students doing daft but harmless student things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6avKSz3d4I

Then the two protests got intermingled, apparently by the native american contingent moving to the students.
https://twitter.com/mariajudy_/status/1086681831804674048

Mr Phillips then moves through the crowd, stops right in front of the kid who moves neither forwards, backwards, nor says a word, and sings in his face.
https://youtu.be/sIG5ZB0fw1k

Whatever the truth behind this (and I'm sure everyone is editing the heck out of things), I strongly suspect the story is not what is initially going around. Most of the repeats of the video I've seen have been the last one above, but starting almost a minute in.

The story seems pretty clear to everyone but you.

20Cent

Longer version of the video.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/19/video-shows-teen-boys-taunting-native-american-man-at-march/

Kid is clearly trying to intimidate the Indian man.
Didn't work.

This attitude comes from the top. If the president uses native American as a slur why not us. Just part of the negative, hatful agenda set by Trump.

aloyisious

IMO, the kid is just being your average teenage schoolkid amongst a like-bunch without their teachers doing what they were supposed to do, adults controlling a bunch of schoolkids, all in all a bunch of ill-educated plonkers going on about civil rights and abusing the man's civil right to peaceful assembly.

Blowfish

Manic Moran wrote: »

Mr Phillips then moves through the crowd, stops right in front of the kid who moves neither forwards, backwards, nor says a word, and sings in his face.
https://youtu.be/sIG5ZB0fw1k

Whatever the truth behind this (and I'm sure everyone is editing the heck out of things), I strongly suspect the story is not what is initially going around. Most of the repeats of the video I've seen have been the last one above, but starting almost a minute in.

The Washington Post managed to interview him, this is what he says:

In an interview Saturday, Phillips, 64, said he felt threatened by the teens and that they suddenly swarmed around him as he and other activists were wrapping up the march and preparing to leave.

Phillips, who was singing the American Indian Movement song that serves as a ceremony to send the spirits home, said he noticed tensions beginning to escalate when the teens and other apparent participants from the nearby March for Life rally began taunting the dispersing indigenous crowd.

A few people in the March for Life crowd began to chant “Build that wall, build that wall,” he said.

“It was getting ugly, and I was thinking: ‘I’ve got to find myself an exit out of this situation and finish my song at the Lincoln Memorial,’ ” Phillips recalled. “I started going that way, and that guy in the hat stood in my way and we were at an impasse. He just blocked my way and wouldn’t allow me to retreat.”

smurgen

Manic Moran wrote: »

FrostyJack wrote: »

What are they chanting? Stupid phone speakers are rubbish so can't make it out. I read the thread, they are from a Catholic school and they have been named and shamed already.

So I'm looking at the longer videos from that incident, and it seems that somehow the Indigenous People's March and the March for Life (anti-abortion, not anti-immigration) crowd got mixed up.

So apparently they started off being students doing daft but harmless student things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6avKSz3d4I

Then the two protests got intermingled, apparently by the native american contingent moving to the students.
https://twitter.com/mariajudy_/status/1086681831804674048

Mr Phillips then moves through the crowd, stops right in front of the kid who moves neither forwards, backwards, nor says a word, and sings in his face.
https://youtu.be/sIG5ZB0fw1k

Whatever the truth behind this (and I'm sure everyone is editing the heck out of things), I strongly suspect the story is not what is initially going around. Most of the repeats of the video I've seen have been the last one above, but starting almost a minute in.

Good to see you pick the side of a trump maga brat than a veteran.shows your true colours.

looksee

Looked to me like six of one and half a dozen of the other. It was very much an 'old bull and young bull' challenging each other. Both were wrong for different reasons.

The drummer did not have to walk towards the crowd, the young guy did not have to stand there with that gormless grin on his face.

On balance I would have preferred that the huge majority (of kids) had not given such a strong impression of challenging one (or possibly 2) individuals, their attitude of privilege and general ignorance did them no favours.

batgoat

looksee wrote: »

Looked to me like six of one and half a dozen of the other. It was very much an 'old bull and young bull' challenging each other. Both were wrong for different reasons.

The drummer did not have to walk towards the crowd, the young guy did not have to stand there with that gormless grin on his face.

On balance I would have preferred that the huge majority (of kids) had not given such a strong impression of challenging one (or possibly 2) individuals, their attitude of privilege and general ignorance did them no favours.

The old man basically took the stance that he wasn't gonna let them intimidate him. They were actively trying to do that and on top of that, mocking his culture. I don't really think he did anything wrong.

SeamusFX

looksee wrote: »

Looked to me like six of one and half a dozen of the other. It was very much an 'old bull and young bull' challenging each other. Both were wrong for different reasons.

The drummer did not have to walk towards the crowd, the young guy did not have to stand there with that gormless grin on his face.

On balance I would have preferred that the huge majority (of kids) had not given such a strong impression of challenging one (or possibly 2) individuals, their attitude of privilege and general ignorance did them no favours.

It's definitely not "six of one and half a dozen of the other", Mr. Phillips was marching towards the Lincoln Monument and the little POS Trump supporter brat stood in his way with an arrogant sarcastic challenging look on his face, challenging him to hit him. It's funny, the little POS thinks he's a tough guy, but despite Mr Phillips being 65, if it did come to a fight, my money is on the war veteran, although you know his moronic buddies would jump in. Also his parents would be the first to sue if Mr Phillips hit the little brat. Mr Phillips had no other choice, he stood his ground and continued his song, although the little brat prevented him from finishing his peaceful march.

As a Catholic, who went to Catholic schools, I'd be very surprised if any of them will be expelled. The US Catholic Church is a one trick pony, where abortion is number one on their agenda, so Trump, despite his many terrible faults, is their presidential choice. Also, expelling kids will cost them much needed revenue, so it won't happen, although they might make a token expulsion, if this one kid is a real problem and if his family isn't highly connected and they wanted to get rid of him anyway.

tretorn

Its absolutely manna from heaven for the liberals, no wonder the Irish Times, pathetic biased mouthpiece that it is fell on it.

You have young white males in your line of fire, bingo, from a Catholic school, wet your pants, wearing DT hats, lefties have struck gold.

They are on an anti abortion march, this is practically treason, lock them up.

Much ado about nothing, these are teenagers, leave them alone.

batgoat

tretorn wrote: »

Its absolutely manna from heaven for the liberals, no wonder the Irish Times, pathetic biased mouthpiece that it is fell on it.

You have young white males in your line of fire, bingo, from a Catholic school, wet your pants, wearing DT hats, lefties have struck gold.

Much ado about nothing, these are teenagers, leave them alone.

Nope, I would say it highlights the America Trump is making. One where hate speech is embraced. One where minorities are mocked. This is not standard behaviour of teens... I can't think of a single person from my teenage years who gathered a mob around anyone. Maybe on a smaller scale from bullies who didn't grow up to be much better. It's disgraceful behaviour and shouldn't be glossed over.

B0jangles

tretorn wrote: »

Its absolutely manna from heaven for the liberals, no wonder the Irish Times, pathetic biased mouthpiece that it is fell on it.

You have young white males in your line of fire, bingo, from a Catholic school, wet your pants, wearing DT hats, lefties have struck gold.

They are on an anti abortion march, this is practically treason, lock them up.

Much ado about nothing, these are teenagers, leave them alone.

That's not what those lefty liberals, the Diocese of Covington and the board of the school in question, had to say on the matter:

The Diocese of Covington and Covington Catholic High School have issued the following statement:
We condemn the actions of the Covington Catholic High School students towards Nathan Phillips specifically, and Native Americans in general, Jan. 18, after the March for Life, in Washington, D.C. We extend our deepest apologies to Mr. Phillips. This behavior is opposed to the Church’s teachings on the dignity and respect of the human person.
The matter is being investigated and we will take appropriate action, up to and including expulsion.
We know this incident also has tainted the entire witness of the March for Life and express our most sincere apologies to all those who attended the March and all those who support the pro-life movement.

http://ccky.org/2019/01/statement-on-the-actions-of-covington-catholic-high-school-students/

SeamusFX

tretorn wrote: »

Its absolutely manna from heaven for the liberals, no wonder the Irish Times, pathetic biased mouthpiece that it is fell on it.

You have young white males in your line of fire, bingo, from a Catholic school, wet your pants, wearing DT hats, lefties have struck gold.

They are on an anti abortion march, this is practically treason, lock them up.

Much ado about nothing, these are teenagers, leave them alone.

You’re too caught up worshiping the idiot Trump and buying into all the Deep State BS to really know what’s going on. The point is, these little brats feel more entitled to cause trouble and disrespect their elders and Veterans, because POS Cadet Bone Spurs has set a terrible example! A president is supposed to unite the country, but Trump doesn’t care about that, all he wants to do is stoke his base, while he robs the country in the process!

Timberrrrrrrr

tretorn wrote: »

Its absolutely manna from heaven for the liberals, no wonder the Irish Times, pathetic biased mouthpiece that it is fell on it.

You have young white males in your line of fire, bingo, from a Catholic school, wet your pants, wearing DT hats, lefties have struck gold.

They are on an anti abortion march, this is practically treason, lock them up.

Much ado about nothing, these are teenagers, leave them alone.

One wonders if you would have the same attitude of "boys will be boys" if it was your father/grandfather in that situation?

Leroy42

So hold on. Is it really the position of some posters here that a miltary vet, simply walking through the park is to blame because a group of teenagers decided that they would stop him and intimate him?

This is a man that gave service for the country, the country that allows these kids to enjoy the lives they do, and some on here are saying that "there were good people on both sides"

Jebus wept. Seriously, you really need to take a long hard look at yourselves and what your support of Trump is making you do. In the last few days we have posters claiming that the US needs better corruption and that harassing vets is fine as he was banging a drum (he wasn't simply doing that it was a 'song' for the fallen).

These are the same people who called out the liberals for baracking SHS at a restaurant and forcing her to leave! But then she is doing the work of the right which I guess makes what she does ok.

Yet again, Trump supporter's position on anything is driven by who was involved rather than the issue at hand.

Donald Trump

Manic Moran wrote: »

So I'm looking at the longer videos from that incident, and it seems that somehow the Indigenous People's March and the March for Life (anti-abortion, not anti-immigration) crowd got mixed up.

So apparently they started off being students doing daft but harmless student things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6avKSz3d4I

Then the two protests got intermingled, apparently by the native american contingent moving to the students.
https://twitter.com/mariajudy_/status/1086681831804674048

Mr Phillips then moves through the crowd, stops right in front of the kid who moves neither forwards, backwards, nor says a word, and sings in his face.
https://youtu.be/sIG5ZB0fw1k

Whatever the truth behind this (and I'm sure everyone is editing the heck out of things), I strongly suspect the story is not what is initially going around. Most of the repeats of the video I've seen have been the last one above, but starting almost a minute in.

How do you think it would be portrayed if it was an elderly 65 year old white american veteran surrounded by a group of dozens of US born hispanic/latino teenagers moving and acting together like a mob?

duploelabs

smurgen wrote: »

Good to see you pick the side of a trump maga brat than a veteran.shows your true colours.

"bad people on both sides" used in defence of those petulant runts.

Saw an interview with the kids' mother, I'm surprised she could bring up phlegm, let alone a child

looksee

There is one piece of video that shows the kids jumping around and shouting, mostly with their backs to the older guy, not even aware of him, and he keeps walking into the thick of the crowd. The kids certainly don't come out of it with any credit at all, but he was walking into them until one young punk just stood there with a stupid, challenging grin. The kids acted exactly as you would expect a crowd of slightly out of control, ill mannered teens to behave - and that's not an excuse. No 'winners' and nothing to do with Trump, for once.

duploelabs

looksee wrote: »

There is one piece of video that shows the kids jumping around and shouting, mostly with their backs to the older guy, not even aware of him, and he keeps walking into the thick of the crowd. The kids certainly don't come out of it with any credit at all, but he was walking into them until one young punk just stood there with a stupid, challenging grin. The kids acted exactly as you would expect a crowd of slightly out of control, ill mannered teens to behave - and that's not an excuse. No 'winners' and nothing to do with Trump, for once.

I'd beg to differ, it has a lot to do with him when he misquotes Wounded Knee and uses pocohontas as a slur, it emboldens little toerags like that to behave in that way

Leroy42

I disagree that it has nothing to do with Trump. Not directly of course, but as was pointed out previously, it is because to the type of rhetoric and Trumps continual dog whistles to the whites that is increasing the feeling that people can be more open in their view, that things like this are acceptable.

He has used racial tensions to gain support, that is a dangerous game and very hard to put the effects back into the bottle. Trump has driven this position that there is no middle ground, either win or lose. Compromise is not acceptable. So why would the likes of these kids, or the people that are giving support to their actions, act any differently.

pixelburp

The only thing here, is that take away the MAGA hats and arguably this behaviour could have existed during any period of American history. The disgraceful treatment of Native Americans in the country's society is scarcely a new concept, nor is brazen, open prejudice against its population.

That in no way is meant to forgive or dismiss the effect of Trump in emboldening those who perversely feel they're the victim, but I imagine that Native American man has seen his fair share of cold blooded racism against him - not least when he did serve in Vietnam.

elli21

looksee wrote: »

There is one piece of video that shows the kids jumping around and shouting, mostly with their backs to the older guy, not even aware of him, and he keeps walking into the thick of the crowd. The kids certainly don't come out of it with any credit at all, but he was walking into them until one young punk just stood there with a stupid, challenging grin. The kids acted exactly as you would expect a crowd of slightly out of control, ill mannered teens to behave - and that's not an excuse. No 'winners' and nothing to do with Trump, for once.

But the school superintendet was there along with other parents acting as shaparones...they weren't unsupervised.

Did not one of those think to intervene ?

everlast75

Can't believe this is up for debate tbh.

The mind boggles

Captain Obvious

looksee wrote: »

There is one piece of video that shows the kids jumping around and shouting, mostly with their backs to the older guy, not even aware of him, and he keeps walking into the thick of the crowd. The kids certainly don't come out of it with any credit at all, but he was walking into them until one young punk just stood there with a stupid, challenging grin. The kids acted exactly as you would expect a crowd of slightly out of control, ill mannered teens to behave - and that's not an excuse. No 'winners' and nothing to do with Trump, for once.

As far as I am aware he went towards them because they were jeering a group of black bible preachers.

Manic Moran

Pelvis wrote: »

The story seems pretty clear to everyone but you.

Maybe because I'm looking for a larger story?

Have you noticed that the viral video going around which has started all the controversy is one which has been edited to coincidentally start at -just- the right time to make Mr Hodge look in the worst possible manner? Have you noticed that despite the evident proliferation of cameras, no unedited video from either side of the leadup has been proferred? Does it beg the possibility that people are trying to manipulate us?

The old bull/young bull description posted earlier seems quite apt. Mr Philips wanted to go to the Lincoln Memorial. There are already a crowd of students on the steps. Does Mr Phillips go around the crowd (The steps are quite wide), or through it? Mr Phillips claims that Mr Hodge deliberately blocked his path. At what timestamp in the longer video does Mr Hodge take a step in any direction to block Mr Phillips' path? Should Mr Hodge have gotten out of the way? Perhaps. Was he obliged to? Other than wear a MAGA hat, which is a questionable decision, on the evidence before us, what, exactly, did Mr Hodge do to deserve the vitriol and hate heading his way online?

As far as I am aware he went towards them because they were jeering a group of black bible preachers.

That, at least, there is some video evidence to support. Video of those bible preachers is online, unlike video of a build the wall chant (that I've found thus far). But that's not the rationale given by Mr Phillips.

Den14

Manic Moran wrote: »

Maybe because I'm looking for a larger story?

Have you noticed that the viral video going around which has started all the controversy is one which has been edited to coincidentally start at -just- the right time to make Mr Hodge look in the worst possible manner? Have you noticed that despite the evident proliferation of cameras, no unedited video from either side of the leadup has been proferred? Does it beg the possibility that people are trying to manipulate us?

The old bull/young bull description posted earlier seems quite apt. Mr Philips wanted to go to the Lincoln Memorial. There are already a crowd of students on the steps. Does Mr Phillips go around the crowd (The steps are quite wide), or through it? Mr Phillips claims that Mr Hodge deliberately blocked his path. At what timestamp in the longer video does Mr Hodge take a step in any direction to block Mr Phillips' path? Should Mr Hodge have gotten out of the way? Perhaps. Was he obliged to? Other than wear a MAGA hat, which is a questionable decision, on the evidence before us, what, exactly, did Mr Hodge do to deserve the vitriol and hate heading his way online?



That, at least, there is some video evidence to support. Video of those bible preachers is online, unlike video of a build the wall chant (that I've found thus far). But that's not the rationale given by Mr Phillips.

Unfortunately many folks cannot see the bigger picture. The optics are set in such a way as to cause as much outrage as possible. It is a d*ck move by the media. After all ultimately they make money from such stories. They wouldn't want the truth to get in the way of a good one now would they?

batgoat

Meanwhile his mother has made a statement.. Clearly racism runs in family.
https://twitter.com/Rschooley/status/1086848554046373893?s=19

B0jangles

Manic Moran wrote: »

Maybe because I'm looking for a larger story?

Have you noticed that the viral video going around which has started all the controversy is one which has been edited to coincidentally start at -just- the right time to make Mr Hodge look in the worst possible manner? Have you noticed that despite the evident proliferation of cameras, no unedited video from either side of the leadup has been proferred? Does it beg the possibility that people are trying to manipulate us?

The old bull/young bull description posted earlier seems quite apt. Mr Philips wanted to go to the Lincoln Memorial. There are already a crowd of students on the steps. Does Mr Phillips go around the crowd (The steps are quite wide), or through it? Mr Phillips claims that Mr Hodge deliberately blocked his path. At what timestamp in the longer video does Mr Hodge take a step in any direction to block Mr Phillips' path? Should Mr Hodge have gotten out of the way? Perhaps. Was he obliged to? Other than wear a MAGA hat, which is a questionable decision, on the evidence before us, what, exactly, did Mr Hodge do to deserve the vitriol and hate heading his way online?



That, at least, there is some video evidence to support. Video of those bible preachers is online, unlike video of a build the wall chant (that I've found thus far). But that's not the rationale given by Mr Phillips.

As I already posted, the school the boys attend and the diocese to which it is affiliated have already made a statement saying they are 100% opposed to the behaviour displayed by their students.


Their representatives were at the march, they saw the whole story and they aren't 'waiting to see the full facts' they aren't talking the usual talk about 'holding off on judgement until our investigation is completed'.


Maybe you should ask the School board and the diocese why they are already sure that the fault was with the students and not the elderly native american man.

Rjd2

Captain Obvious wrote: »

As far as I am aware he went towards them because they were jeering a group of black bible preachers.

The homophobic black preachers by any chance? **** those dudes if they are the ones you are referring to.

Some good videos coming out from beforehand. Won't be watched obviously.

Enjoy.