Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Billy Mays

Why the f*ck are schoolkids being brought to an anti abortion march in the first place?

Leroy42

I think what this incident really shows is just how terribly divided the US is, and it is getting worse.

Of course racial tensions have always been bubbling under the service, for Trump has facilitated, and encouraged, those tensions to not only be aired but o be actively seen as a defining part of a person. Everyone knows what the MAGA hat means, it was very clear from the campaign rallies what it stood for. Whether it was designed to be that, it was clearly allowed to take hold and Trump never, not once, tried to dampen it down because it worked in his favour.

What is clear is that Trump is major component of this increasing problem. A problem that will take a long term to resolve, far longer than trump being in office.

And this is the key point about supporting Trump. There are very clear consequences, consequences which his supporters seem to be unconcerned about. Trump should be working towards healing these issues within the country rather than increasing them.

oscarBravo

mattser wrote: »

...POTUS celebrating the 2nd anniversary of his inauguration...

...by petulantly depriving almost a million people of their livelihoods over an ego-stroking boondoggle.

Um, yay?

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think what this incident really shows is just how terribly divided the US is, and it is getting worse.

Of course racial tensions have always been bubbling under the service, for Trump has facilitated, and encouraged, those tensions to not only be aired but o be actively seen as a defining part of a person. Everyone knows what the MAGA hat means, it was very clear from the campaign rallies what it stood for. Whether it was designed to be that, it was clearly allowed to take hold and Trump never, not once, tried to dampen it down because it worked in his favour.

What is clear is that Trump is major component of this increasing problem. A problem that will take a long term to resolve, far longer than trump being in office.

And this is the key point about supporting Trump. There are very clear consequences, consequences which his supporters seem to be unconcerned about. Trump should be working towards healing these issues within the country rather than increasing them.

I've said it here before. Those tensions exist and Trump has taken a jack hammer to them.

Further evidence of this is Pence comparing Trump to MLK, all while Trump is not partaking in any of the MLK celebrations.

Last week Mr. King said he saw nothing wrong about using the phrase White Supremacy and White Nationalist, Trump was asked about that and refused to comment, as he said he didn't see it. However, he was all over Twitter commenting on instagram videos of E Warren, and making comments about indian massacres.

He continues to stoke tensions via his ignorant comments about the border, using other racist dog whistles.

His chances of re-election are based primarily on racism. He knows that.

woddensanta

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think what this incident really shows is just how terribly divided the US is, and it is getting worse.

Of course racial tensions have always been bubbling under the service, for Trump has facilitated, and encouraged, those tensions to not only be aired but o be actively seen as a defining part of a person. Everyone knows what the MAGA hat means, it was very clear from the campaign rallies what it stood for. Whether it was designed to be that, it was clearly allowed to take hold and Trump never, not once, tried to dampen it down because it worked in his favour.

What is clear is that Trump is major component of this increasing problem. A problem that will take a long term to resolve, far longer than trump being in office.

And this is the key point about supporting Trump. There are very clear consequences, consequences which his supporters seem to be unconcerned about. Trump should be working towards healing these issues within the country rather than increasing them.

I don't understand, it was trumps fault the black nationalists and the native Americans racially abused the kids?

Leroy42

woddensanta wrote: »

I don't understand, it was trumps fault the black nationalists and the native Americans racially abused the kids?

You quoted my post but obviously didn't read it.

What is clear is that Trump is major component of this increasing problem.

So yes, he has to take some responsibility. He has both encouraged and partaken in racial slurs and that will inevitably lead to those groups wanting to hit back.

Do you think they should by as the whites get to complain about their lot? Neither is the right way to resolve it, but I can fully understand the frustration that these groups must be feeling that rather than things getting better Trump is helping to make them worse.

One of the things with being a leader, is that you bear responsibility. Trump cannot simply be removed from the equation.

It is funny that you want to make sure that Trump is absolved from any and all blame, yet when Muslims do something it is the fault of the entire religion rather than just the nutjob that carried out the attack.

So you are more than happy to apportion blame when it suits. As in everything to do with Trump, it the hypocrisy that is the most galling on here.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

This thread has gotten derailed off-topic, with discussion of this kids wearing MAGA hats thing. Furthermore, there's a lot of people who aren't heeding the charter and getting pretty personal.

So lets get back on topic now.

Thank you

kilns

The shutdown is no longer a Trump solo run, it is a Dem V Rep fight and its now a questions of which side will blink first.

Look at the coordinated tweets from all the Rep senators and congressman straight after Trumps offer.

The whole vilian in this piece is still is McConnell and is escaping relatively unscathed by this (a tiny percent of voters are blaming him) but that is because many do not know that the bills are there but he is refusing to put them to a vote which will pass, thus making Trump the bad guy as he will refuse to sign

kilns

Harris has just announced she is running for 2020 now too, the Dems need to be smart here and get two people on the ticket who can take on Trump but also not give him any ammunition to attack (although he will make stuff up anyway)

But I can see someone like Harris as a VP on a ticket with Biden perhaps, Beto and Harris would be good but too radical

everlast75

kilns wrote: »

The shutdown is no longer a Trump solo run, it is a Dem V Rep fight and its now a questions of which side will blink first.

Look at the coordinated tweets from all the Rep senators and congressman straight after Trumps offer.

The whole vilian in this piece is still is McConnell and is escaping relatively unscathed by this (a tiny percent of voters are blaming him) but that is because many do not know that the bills are there but he is refusing to put them to a vote which will pass, thus making Trump the bad guy as he will refuse to sign

Trump cannot legitimately shift the blame for this onto anyone else, following this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n-Y4TIgktg

I agree that it is McConnell who is covering for him and has become culpable too. I reckon that if McConnell were to allow the vote, Trump would buckle and sign the Bill, and that's why Trump is pressurising McConnell not to allow the vote.

McConnell is up for re-election next year. Hopefully all of the workers in his State remember this.

Headshot

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump cannot legitimately shift the blame for this onto anyone else, following this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n-Y4TIgktg

I agree that it is McConnell who is covering for him and has become culpable too. I reckon that if McConnell were to allow the vote, Trump would buckle and sign the Bill, and that's why Trump is pressurising McConnell not to allow the vote.

McConnell is up for re-election next year. Hopefully all of the workers in his State remember this.

I was thinking about why isnt that video on tv adverts every day during this shutdown, it the best propaganda you can get

kilns

Headshot wrote: »

I was thinking about why isnt that video on tv adverts every day during this shutdown, it the best propaganda you can get

The problem is that his party and his core support will follow him no matter what, they are rowing in behind him, if McConnell has a backbone or was put under pressure from other Rep Senators, Trump the bill all agree on would be on Trumps table waiting his signature putting him in an impossible situation, I blame his enablers

Quin_Dub

kilns wrote: »

The problem is that his party and his core support will follow him no matter what, they are rowing in behind him, if McConnell has a backbone or was put under pressure from other Rep Senators, Trump the bill all agree on would be on Trumps table waiting his signature putting him in an impossible situation, I blame his enablers

McConnells issue (well one of them) is that Trump is more popular in his State than he is , so he can't really be seen to drop Trump in it..

Also , by refusing to bring any of the bills to the floor he avoids showing any disunity among GOP senators , he also kinda protects any swing state GOP senators that are up in 2020 as well.

So - As a leader of the GOP , he's doing a great job , however as leader of the Senate which is supposed to represent everyone , not so much..

Water John

So is McConnell going to do the same as Gingrich and not get any Bills through the Senate for 2 years? Except weirdly, the POTUS is GOP too.

kilns

McConnell just disproves the fact that so many Americans love to brag about - that the live in the greatest democracy in the world - The US is as close to a democracy as is Russia - "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

Igotadose

Water John wrote: »

So is McConnell going to do the same as Gingrich and not get any Bills through the Senate for 2 years? Except weirdly, the POTUS is GOP too.

He trys to get some bills through:
https://truthout.org/articles/instead-of-ending-shutdown-mcconnell-prioritizes-anti-choice-bill/


"McConnell held a Senate vote not on whether to reopen the government, but on a bill that would restrict abortion rights for low-income women."

This one failed.

pixelburp

At this point it can't be anything subtler than a game of Political Chicken; someone's going to blink and I suspect both sides are hanging on the noise of their respective bases & polling numbers, as to when to fold.

If the mood swings towards a "just sign it, it's only 5 billion" I could see the Democrats cashing in their chips, while the GOP presumably are waiting / hoping for that tide to eventually turn? As mentioned above, McConnell being less popular than Trump in his own state is also a factor in the Senate leader's own tactics.

What a mess. I feel a deep sadness for anyone caught within the poverty trap in the United States.

everlast75

Nice day for a quick lie-total.


"Fact Checker: President Trump made 8,158 false or misleading claims in his first two years"

(6000 in his second year!)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/21/president-trump-made-false-or-misleading-claims-his-first-two-years/?utm_term=.539781e7f1a3

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

I've deleted another post. The purpose of this forum is to debate the topic at hand. It's not here for two camps to take potshots at one another.

If your post is about other users and not about the thread topic, think twice about hitting "Submit Reply".

aloyisious

I read a story with a Fox-video attached on F/B that "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace told Mike Pence that he could open the Govt tomorrow. MP's response was that it is Nancy Pelosi who is at fault for keeping the Govt closure going. The following is the reported verbal interchange [as provided in the story] between both CW and MP during the interview. It's likely that there's more spoken during the interview as it seems short. I know that at least one Fox News host has challenged the Admin position in the recent past in a way not usually done by it's mainstay host so maybe it's the same challenging host and a sign that the times are changing, what with Border Security on furlough/unwaged working in the soup kitchens set up to support them and Secret Service members working for free [unwaged as a result of the shutdown] on escort duty with Mrs Trump going to the Trump Mar-A-Lago estate being unable to speak for themselves.

“Fox News Sunday” host Chris Wallace pressed Vice President Mike Pence on the fact that Republican lawmakers could immediately reopen the government, if they wanted, and then negotiate with Democrats about funding for President Donald Trump’s desired border wall.

Wallace noted that the 30-day partial government shutdown is now the longest in United States history, with 800,000 federal employees either not working or being forced to work without pay as the president has refused to reopen government over his demands for $5 billion in border wall funding.
“The American people want action on our southern border,” Pence insisted. “They want border security. Eight-hundred thousand federal workers want us to find a way to open the government.”
“You could open the government tomorrow,” Wallace said.
Wallace repeated the statement two more times and then asked: “The House has passed bills to open the government tomorrow, why don’t you sign them and open the government and then you can negotiate about this?”
“Chris, what the American people want us to do is to work on their priorities and the American people want us to secure the border,” Pence replied.
“No,” Wallace pushed back. “Isn’t that you just want the leverage and you figure if you don’t keep the government closed then [Republican border wall plans] are going to go nowhere?”
Pence explained that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) has vowed not to give President Donald Trump more than a dollar for his border wall.

Quin_Dub

aloyisious wrote: »

I read a story with a Fox-video attached on F/B that "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace told Mike Pence that he could open the Govt tomorrow. MP's response was that it is Nancy Pelosi who is at fault for keeping the Govt closure going. The following is the reported verbal interchange [as provided in the story] between both CW and MP during the interview. It's likely that there's more spoken during the interview as it seems short. I know that at least one Fox News host has challenged the Admin position in the recent past in a way not usually done by it's mainstay host so maybe it's the same challenging host and a sign that the times are changing, what with Border Security on furlough/unwaged working in the soup kitchens set up to support them and Secret Service members working for free [unwaged as a result of the shutdown] on escort duty with Mrs Trump going to the Trump Mar-A-Lago estate being unable to speak for themselves.

“Fox News Sunday” host Chris Wallace pressed Vice President Mike Pence on the fact that Republican lawmakers could immediately reopen the government, if they wanted, and then negotiate with Democrats about funding for President Donald Trump’s desired border wall.

Wallace noted that the 30-day partial government shutdown is now the longest in United States history, with 800,000 federal employees either not working or being forced to work without pay as the president has refused to reopen government over his demands for $5 billion in border wall funding.
“The American people want action on our southern border,” Pence insisted. “They want border security. Eight-hundred thousand federal workers want us to find a way to open the government.”
“You could open the government tomorrow,” Wallace said.
Wallace repeated the statement two more times and then asked: “The House has passed bills to open the government tomorrow, why don’t you sign them and open the government and then you can negotiate about this?”
“Chris, what the American people want us to do is to work on their priorities and the American people want us to secure the border,” Pence replied.
“No,” Wallace pushed back. “Isn’t that you just want the leverage and you figure if you don’t keep the government closed then [Republican border wall plans] are going to go nowhere?”
Pence explained that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) has vowed not to give President Donald Trump more than a dollar for his border wall.

To be fair to the actual journalists on Fox News like Wallace , Shepard Smith and to a lesser extent Brett Baier they try to do actually do a real job unlike the "Opinion" people like Hannity and Carlson..

aloyisious

The question now is if there is no sign of a position-shift from the Dem sign of the fence, would Don, in his usual manner, decide to up the ante and unwage other sectors of the Federal Govt, would that eventually break the stonewall attitude of the GOP Senate team in respect of not passing bills sent from the House? Given his history of independent action, I can well see how he might/could take such a risky step. The National Security emergency he was on about declaring springs to mind, except it may be different to what he was hinting at, in order to fund the fence/wall the border from freed-up funding within existing Fed Govt Dept treasury allocations.

Sand

pixelburp wrote: »

If the mood swings towards a "just sign it, it's only 5 billion" I could see the Democrats cashing in their chips, while the GOP presumably are waiting / hoping for that tide to eventually turn? As mentioned above, McConnell being less popular than Trump in his own state is also a factor in the Senate leader's own tactics.

That is the most likely outcome. It is only a few billion in a multi-trillion budget so its not a matter of money. A third of the border already has a barrier or wall so its not a disagreement on the concept. At some point, a compromise will have to be made. The Democrats may as well begin determining what they want in exchange for the wall.

Blowfish

pixelburp wrote: »

If the mood swings towards a "just sign it, it's only 5 billion" I could see the Democrats cashing in their chips, while the GOP presumably are waiting / hoping for that tide to eventually turn? As mentioned above, McConnell being less popular than Trump in his own state is also a factor in the Senate leader's own tactics.

I doubt the Dem's would give in to it, otherwise it just opens up the GOP to holding the threat of government shutdown every time they want to get their own way.

everlast75

Blowfish wrote: »

I doubt the Dem's would give in to it, otherwise it just opens up the GOP to holding the threat of government shutdown every time they want to get their own way.

Agreed.

Plus Trump knows he is getting hammered in the polls, so he is making moves (albeit insincere ones) to try and resolve matters. He has the weaker hand. (Plus that incriminating video)

WinnyThePoo

There will be no negotiations on a 'wall'. The dems aren't going sign off on it.

Why on earth would anybody.

The whole shutdown is a great distraction from the ongoing Mueller investigation. Those poor federal workers are out of work due to a horrible human being.

Manic Moran

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

There will be no negotiations on a 'wall'. The dems aren't going sign off on it.

Why on earth would anybody.

Because they might get a number of other concessions out of it?

It wasn't that long ago that deals were made in Congress. "Yeah, we don't like A, and you don't like B, but I'll give you A if you give us B".

Government actually worked, back then...

Now, it's "We don't like A, you don't like B, but we will accept not getting B in order to make sure you don't get A."

There should be some sort 'price' at which both sides will compromise.

Sand

Blowfish wrote: »

I doubt the Dem's would give in to it, otherwise it just opens up the GOP to holding the threat of government shutdown every time they want to get their own way.

How is that threat any different to what already exists? There has been multiple shutdowns under both Republican and Democrat presidents. There is nothing new here.

pixelburp

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

There will be no negotiations on a 'wall'. The dems aren't going sign off on it.

Why on earth would anybody.

The whole shutdown is a great distraction from the ongoing Mueller investigation. Those poor federal workers are out of work due to a horrible human being.

The point is SOMEONE has to blink eventually, the government is nearing a whole month of closure. I'm not 100% on the details re. medicaid and other social services but there's only so much people can take before things get angry. Is the State Dept. still running, I presume security institutions are exempt.

Perhaps this is where the erosion of calm confidantes in the White House is being felt; with no one to suggest Trump back down, he's free to play this nonsense game of a "mere"5 billion for a phantom wall. The cooler, more experienced heads are gone, leaving a quagmire.

20Cent

Manic Moran wrote: »

Because they might get a number of other concessions out of it?

It wasn't that long ago that deals were made in Congress. "Yeah, we don't like A, and you don't like B, but I'll give you A if you give us B".

Government actually worked, back then...

Now, it's "We don't like A, you don't like B, but we will accept not getting B in order to make sure you don't get A."

There should be some sort 'price' at which both sides will compromise.

Previous presidents have been at least rational though, a bit different now. Trump could re open the government while negotiations take place but he is choosing not to.